Swapping car for an ebike for daily commute? (38km one way)

WMP

My commute is 38km one way (shortest distance) or 45km by car (motorway). I normally ride in 2 or 3 times per week and go home by car. I used to ride both ways but don’t enjoy the evening ride. It’s great to have a good spin in the morning, have a shower and then be done for the day. I rarely enjoyed getting back on the bike after work in the evening to do another 38km. I rode it both directions once for a complete week. Glad I did it but it’s too far to ride every day in my opinion. Anybody doing that distance on a daily basis? Fair play if you are!

Anyway I am giving serious consideration to getting an ebike and commuting both ways. Is anybody doing this or has anyone seriously considered it?

I was never a fan of ebikes but now see them a potentially attractive alternative to driving. However I haven’t tried one yet. Anyone tried one out and what did you think? Most are really ugly but there are some new really sleek and sporty looking ones.

Would it be right to assume that riding an ebike capable of 25 km/h max would allow me to ride at 55kmh with the same effort I need to maintain 30km/h? Sounds like a great buzz.

I see a lot more positives (more exercise, no sitting in traffic, less mileage on the car, big fuel saving) than negatives (main concern is increased chance of an accident being in the traffic every day for 76km).

Very interested in your opinions, thoughts and any advice. Cheers

ted1

The bike is over twice the weight.
At 25kmh it on my assists you do you are still pedalling

You’d need some gear ratio to get up to 55kmh

No you are not right.

magicbastarder

WMP wrote: »

Would it be right to assume that riding an ebike capable of 25 km/h max would allow me to ride at 55kmh with the same effort I need to maintain 30km/h? Sounds like a great buzz.

no. the assistance cuts out at 25km/h. so to ride at 30km/h, you are putting in more effort than you would be doing riding a normal road bike at 30km/h due to the increased weight and rolling resistance of an e-bike.

WMP

magicbastarder wrote: »

no. the assistance cuts out at 25km/h. so to ride at 30km/h, you are putting in more effort than you would be doing riding a normal road bike at 30km/h due to the increased weight and rolling resistance of an e-bike.

Really, are you sure about that?
If so 25km/h max is useless.

WMP

ted1 wrote: »

The bike is over twice the weight.
At 25kmh it on my assists you do you are still pedalling

You’d need some gear ratio to get up to 55kmh

No you are not right.

There are some new bikes available that weigh <14kg. Not bad for a standard commuter with mudguards, rack etc. Expensive though.

Yes true about the gear ratio needed to get to 55km/h.

The One Doctor

WMP wrote: »

My commute is 38km one way (shortest distance) or 45km by car (motorway). I normally ride in 2 or 3 times per week and go home by car. I used to ride both ways but don’t enjoy the evening ride. It’s great to have a good spin in the morning, have a shower and then be done for the day. I rarely enjoyed getting back on the bike after work in the evening to do another 38km. I rode it both directions once for a complete week. Glad I did it but it’s too far to ride every day in my opinion. Anybody doing that distance on a daily basis? Fair play if you are!

Anyway I am giving serious consideration to getting an ebike and commuting both ways. Is anybody doing this or has anyone seriously considered it?

I was never a fan of ebikes but now see them a potentially attractive alternative to driving. However I haven’t tried one yet. Anyone tried one out and what did you think? Most are really ugly but there are some new really sleek and sporty looking ones.

Would it be right to assume that riding an ebike capable of 25 km/h max would allow me to ride at 55kmh with the same effort I need to maintain 30km/h? Sounds like a great buzz.

I see a lot more positives (more exercise, no sitting in traffic, less mileage on the car, big fuel saving) than negatives (main concern is increased chance of an accident being in the traffic every day for 76km).

Very interested in your opinions, thoughts and any advice. Cheers

38km one way is too far for an ebike. I've commuted using an ebike before and it was great, but that was a 18km round trip.

25kmh will really be your max speed. I reconfigured mine to do 30kmh (it was custom built), but that's rare.

WMP

The One Doctor wrote: »

38km one way is too far for an ebike. I've commuted using an ebike before and it was great, but that was a 18km round trip.

Why do you say that? Range or something else. I was looking at one with 80km range.

25kmh will really be your max speed. I reconfigured mine to do 30kmh (it was custom built), but that's rare.

I havent looked but heard some are capable of 45km/h. No idea of the range and assume they are the big ugly looking ones.

jon1981

WMP wrote: »

Really, are you sure about that?
If so 25km/h max is useless.

Yes this is true, they cut out at 25km/h

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/news/how-fast-can-an-e-bike-go/21531

In Europe, an E-bike can have a maximum power of 250 watts, assisting the E-Bike to a maximum speed of 25 km/h. In the U.S., the rules are different. There, E-bike motors can have a maximum of 500 watts and assist up to 20 mph (32km/h)

Anything above is a Pedelec, not sure what the rules are for those and if they can be bought here. I imagine they're not
street legal.

http://irishcycle.com/2015/07/08/transport-minister-questioned-on-powerful-electric-bicycles/

Deputy Daly asked: “To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he has considered increasing the speed limits for electric pedelecs from 15 mph (25 km/h) and increasing the engine size to above 250 watts in view of the fact that the current limits were set in 1978.”

In reply, the minister for transport, Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael), wrote: “I have no proposals at this time for amending legislation in relation to pedelecs (electrically assisted bicycles). I will however keep the matter under review.”

grey area.

ED E

Its not a grey area.

The laws on Tax/NCT/Roadworthiness Cert/Insurance/Blood Alc etc etc apply to Mechanically propelled vehicles. There's an exemption for the pedelec category. If you use something outside that category its an undocumented vehicle and the same as driving a car with no documents.

Whether it'd be enforced day to day? Unlikely. If you had a crash....book meet you.


Pedalling a little bit and using medium assist to cruise at 25kph is going to leave you with a 90min journey, doubt you'd want to do that if possible. With a bit of training doing it faster on a 6kg bike and eating well at lunch (food makes ALLLLLL the difference IMO) it might work out better.

ted1

The One Doctor wrote: »

WMP wrote: »

My commute is 38km one way (shortest distance) or 45km by car (motorway). I normally ride in 2 or 3 times per week and go home by car. I used to ride both ways but don’t enjoy the evening ride. It’s great to have a good spin in the morning, have a shower and then be done for the day. I rarely enjoyed getting back on the bike after work in the evening to do another 38km. I rode it both directions once for a complete week. Glad I did it but it’s too far to ride every day in my opinion. Anybody doing that distance on a daily basis? Fair play if you are!

Anyway I am giving serious consideration to getting an ebike and commuting both ways. Is anybody doing this or has anyone seriously considered it?

I was never a fan of ebikes but now see them a potentially attractive alternative to driving. However I haven’t tried one yet. Anyone tried one out and what did you think? Most are really ugly but there are some new really sleek and sporty looking ones.

Would it be right to assume that riding an ebike capable of 25 km/h max would allow me to ride at 55kmh with the same effort I need to maintain 30km/h? Sounds like a great buzz.

I see a lot more positives (more exercise, no sitting in traffic, less mileage on the car, big fuel saving) than negatives (main concern is increased chance of an accident being in the traffic every day for 76km).

Very interested in your opinions, thoughts and any advice. Cheers

38km one way is too far for an ebike. I've commuted using an ebike before and it was great, but that was a 18km round trip.

25kmh will really be your max speed. I reconfigured mine to do 30kmh (it was custom built), but that's rare.

A 500Wh battery should do it

ted1

WMP wrote: »

The One Doctor wrote: »

38km one way is too far for an ebike. I've commuted using an ebike before and it was great, but that was a 18km round trip.

Why do you say that? Range or something else. I was looking at one with 80km range.

25kmh will really be your max speed. I reconfigured mine to do 30kmh (it was custom built), but that's rare.

I havent looked but heard some are capable of 45km/h. No idea of the range and assume they are the big ugly looking ones.

Greenaer stock them. Some are not bad looking they are grouped under s-pedelec banner

WMP

25kmh limit is of no interest to me. I'm faster on my normal bike. I was thinking and was maybe wrong that with assiistance I could make both journeys feel like the equivalent effort of one.

So no one thinks an ebike is an alternative to a car?

A colleague has one of these but I havent had the chance to talk to him yet. Capable of 45kmh. Need a license here (Gwrmany) for it which I didn't want. His has a number plate. But the slower version doesnt seem like it would be of any use.

https://en.hnf-nicolai.com/ebike/xd1-urban/

cdaly_

You could consider driving part way and then park and ride (pedal). That gets you the benefits of cycling in the busy sections with a shorter (and more pleasant) car commute.

If you want to ditch the car entirely, you could consider keeping the bike at a suitable train station and commuting to there.

WMP

cdaly_ wrote: »

You could consider driving part way and then park and ride (pedal). That gets you the benefits of cycling in the busy sections with a shorter (and more pleasant) car commute.

If you want to ditch the car entirely, you could consider keeping the bike at a suitable train station and commuting to there.

I've thought about it and its all or nothing with the bike.

The worst part of driving is in and out of the city so that wont work. I cant leave the car parked somewhere half way to work all week.

Train is a potential option but then I also need to buy a monthly train ticket. Current arrangement using car and bike is better I think.

Not convinced ebike is the best solution but in theory it should be.

The Davestator

Would you consider a moped - no parking fees, fly through traffic, low running costs

Lumen

If you want to go fast and easy but stay legal, get a motorbike. My commute is 35km each way into Dublin city centre, takes 35-45 minutes on the motorbike depending on traffic vs 1:15 on the bicycle (500m climbing slows things down).

I have thought about ditching the motorbike and running an illegal e-bike, but it would still take an hour each way.

07Lapierre

Have you considered a motorcycle?

eclipsechaser

WMP wrote: »

25kmh limit is of no interest to me. I'm faster on my normal bike. I was thinking and was maybe wrong that with assiistance I could make both journeys feel like the equivalent effort of one.

So no one thinks an ebike is an alternative to a car?
https://en.hnf-nicolai.com/ebike/xd1-urban/

I use an ebike as an alternative to a car but it's limited to 25km/h. It's handy for shorter commutes (40km round trip max.) and is great for carrying heavy shopping, bringing home work or going places without sweating.

However you won't do 55km/h on it, unless you've fallen off the side of a cliff. 40km/h would be putting in lots of welly. I definitely go faster on my road bike. There are S-Pedelecs that go to 45km/h but they require a licence and insurance. Not worth it at that stage.

Sounds like your range is just a little too big and you want to go faster. A top of the range S-Pedelec might do it but if you don't get the above requirements then you leave yourself open to the law - particularly if you're in an accident.

WMP

Thanks but I have no interest in getting a moped or motorbike. I still want to get exercise on the commute. I thought an ebike would be ideal as I could use the motor as much as needed depending on how I feel.

I thought the motor would add power to whatever I am delivering myself - kind of like the illegal motor doping some pros have been caught using. I guess ebikes are not designed that way. Pity!

I'm going to consider the Pedelec option and talk to my colleague. License and insurance seems a bit of a hassle though.

_Brian

Guy I worked with found his commute too far to cycle both ways, his solution was to drive half way and cycle the remainder.
That way he was doing the equivalent of a one way cycle.

Might be a solution.

blackbox

WMP wrote: »

Would it be right to assume that riding an ebike capable of 25 km/h max would allow me to ride at 55kmh with the same effort I need to maintain 30km/h? Sounds like a great buzz.

Even if the ebike continued to provide power above 25 km/h, you couldn't simply add your normal speed to get 55 km/h. Drag increases as the square of the speed. You need nine times the power to achieve three times the speed (roughly).

tomasrojo

If a bus or train took you a good part of the way, a compact folder might be an option.

WMP

blackbox wrote: »

Even if the ebike continued to provide power above 25 km/h, you couldn't simply add your normal speed to get 55 km/h. Drag increases as the square of the speed. You need nine times the power to achieve three times the speed (roughly).

>Good point I hadnt thought about that. 9 times seems too high but maybe you are right.

Annie get your Run

WMP wrote: »

I've thought about it and its all or nothing with the bike.

The worst part of driving is in and out of the city so that wont work. I cant leave the car parked somewhere half way to work all week.

Train is a potential option but then I also need to buy a monthly train ticket. Current arrangement using car and bike is better I think.

Not convinced ebike is the best solution but in theory it should be.

Why not? that's exactly what I do. It cuts out the most dangerous part of my commute and allows me to get in and out of town on the bike which is far faster than bus, train or car. Win win win.

Having said that I've also been considering an e-bike to commute the full journey 5 days a week.

magicbastarder

WMP wrote: »

>Good point I hadnt thought about that. 9 times seems too high but maybe you are right.

https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html
just a shade under 100W to maintain 25km/h. just a shade under 800W to maintain 55km/h.

another illustration - the bugatti veyron has 1001BHP. the first 150BHP are required to get it up to 150MPH. the other 851HP are required for the other 100MPH.

magicbastarder

WMP wrote: »

I thought the motor would add power to whatever I am delivering myself - kind of like the illegal motor doping some pros have been caught using. I guess ebikes are not designed that way. Pity!

do we really need cyclists powering along at 55km/h though? if you were expecting that, were you not wondering why you were not seeing it?

tomasrojo

magicbastarder wrote: »

do we really need cyclists powering along at 55km/h though? if you were expecting that, were you not wondering why you were not seeing it?

Yeah, once you're up to those type of speeds, you're really talking about a motorbike, even it's a battery-powered one.

Lumen

There's really no particular reason that e-bikes shouldn't just be limited to 200W when pedalling. That gives the slowest riders 300W and the faster (and generally more experienced) normal ones about 500W, neither of which is going to result in carnage.

Obvs there would be the odd outlier triathlete who crashes into the back of a bus doing 60kph whilst fiddling with his top tube bag, but you can't build society around the failings of triathletes.

CantGetNoSleep

eclipsechaser wrote: »

I use an ebike as an alternative to a car but it's limited to 25km/h. It's handy for shorter commutes (40km round trip max.) and is great for carrying heavy shopping, bringing home work or going places without sweating.

However you won't do 55km/h on it, unless you've fallen off the side of a cliff. 40km/h would be putting in lots of welly. I definitely go faster on my road bike. There are S-Pedelecs that go to 45km/h but they require a licence and insurance. Not worth it at that stage.

Sounds like your range is just a little too big and you want to go faster. A top of the range S-Pedelec might do it but if you don't get the above requirements then you leave yourself open to the law - particularly if you're in an accident.

In other countries you are starting to see speed pedelecs with number plate and road legal lights etc - might happen here sooner rather than later

CIARAN_BOYLE

Weepsie wrote: »

Isn't this missing the point a bit. You'd require some effort obviously, but an awful lot less to just keep at 25kmph. You'd probably be doing it in the same time, if not quicker and arriving a lot less tired.

Agreed, the benefit would be to alternate, pedal slowly and take the full assist for a chunk of the way and pedal heavily with no assist for a chunk.

Bigus

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Agreed, the benefit would be to alternate, pedal slowly and take the full assist for a chunk of the way and pedal heavily with no assist for a chunk.

If the terrain is hilly an ebike is of huge benefit , also ebikes make cycling into a head winds irrelavent , and make cycling in bad weather a lot more bearable as you can wear more gear .

WMP

Weepsie wrote: »

Isn't this missing the point a bit. You'd require some effort obviously, but an awful lot less to just keep at 25kmph. You'd probably be doing it in the same time, if not quicker and arriving a lot less tired.

Yes you are correct. It would still make the commute a lot easier and is an option to consider.

Somehow I thought I'd be able to pedal at normal effort and the motor would simply add power on top. That was a bit stupid and not very realistic I guess. That's how I arrived at the 55km/h number.

Its unfortunate they don't work that way. I'm going to look at the Pedelec options also.

This idea all started after I seen this beauty on a GCN Eurobike video. Expensive but a lovely machine. Worth every penny if I could get 55km/h out of it : )
http://desiknio.com/pinionurban/

WMP

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Why not? that's exactly what I do. It cuts out the most dangerous part of my commute and allows me to get in and out of town on the bike which is far faster than bus, train or car. Win win win.

Having said that I've also been considering an e-bike to commute the full journey 5 days a week.

That's great that works out for you and I can see how it could be a good option. However I'd prefer to cycle a few days and drive the others like I do currently. It seems like the car would never be where you wanted it.

The main goal here is to be free of the car entirely. Let me know if you decide to get an e-bike and how it goes. I'm still not convinced its the best option for me but was hoping some people on here would convince me otherwise.

theotherone

There is room to tune the engines with the ebikes. Lots of information about the bosch motors and getting a little more bang for your money. Bigger battery might also be an idea.

cdaly_

WMP wrote: »

A colleague has one of these but I havent had the chance to talk to him yet. Capable of 45kmh. Need a license here (Germany) for it which I didn't want. His has a number plate. But the slower version doesnt seem like it would be of any use.

Did you say you are in Germany? In that case, I would have thought a partial commute by train (you can bring the bike on the train?) would be ideal...

eclipsechaser

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

In other countries you are starting to see speed pedelecs with number plate and road legal lights etc - might happen here sooner rather than later

Any idea how much extra (approx.) would that all cost in Ireland, including insurance?

I guess it depends what the extra 20km/h is worth to you. Also, would you still be entitled to use the cycle lanes?

magicbastarder

i would guess (citation required) no, you would not be allowed use the cycle lanes. you're not on a vehicle classified as a bike. more akin to a moped.

C3PO

magicbastarder wrote: »

i would guess (citation required) no, you would not be allowed use the cycle lanes. you're not on a vehicle classified as a bike. more akin to a moped.

Mind you ... mopeds use them all the time!!

Lumen

C3PO wrote: »

Mind you ... mopeds use them all the time!!

Motor vehicles are allowed to use non mandatory cycle lanes/ tracks/ whatever.

C3PO

Lumen wrote: »

Motor vehicles are allowed to use non mandatory cycle lanes/ tracks/ whatever.

Really? Please explain?

Lumen

C3PO wrote: »

Really? Please explain?

As I understand it, the only on road cycle tracks that are for the exclusive use of cyclists are the ones demarcated by solid lines.

RasTa

You'd be hard to hit 55kph's on a 50cc moped never mind an electric bike

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

As I understand it, the only on road cycle tracks that are for the exclusive use of cyclists are the ones demarcated by solid lines.

You're certainly allowed to park on them, for the purposes of unloading. Half an hour or something?

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

As I understand it, the only on road cycle tracks that are for the exclusive use of cyclists are the ones demarcated by solid lines.

Oh, it turns out I'm wrong. The prohibition ("to driving wholly or partly along or across a cycle track") applies equally to RRM022 (solid) and RMM023 (dashed) as does the exception for "a vehicle being driven for the purpose of access to or egress from a place adjacent to the cycle track or from a roadway to such a place".

Refs

Section 14
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print

Road markings
http://trafficsigns.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/07-traffic-signs-manual-2010-chapter-7-road-markings.pdf

tomasrojo

Generally, where people need to cross a mandatory cycle track for access, the continuous white line becomes discontinuous at that point. I think.

Grassey

Lumen wrote:

Oh, it turns out I'm wrong. The prohibition ("to driving wholly or partly along or across a cycle track") applies equally to RRM022 (solid) and RMM023 (dashed) as does the exception for "a vehicle being driven for the purpose of access to or egress from a place adjacent to the cycle track or from a roadway to such a place".

Does that leave an interesting situation whereby if dashed lines have been slapped down on a narrow road with a white line down the centre and the road narrows so the gap between the 2 lines is now less than a car width that a car cannot proceed?

tomasrojo

There are standard-width traffic lanes all around Dublin (probably elsewhere) that include a cycle track. It's actually impossible to drive in them and not simultaneously drive "partly along or across" the cycle track. When asked about these, the planners say they're to remind drivers to expect cyclists. But they make the lane impossible to use in strict accordance with the SIs.

ED E

Lumen wrote: »

Oh, it turns out I'm wrong. The prohibition ("to driving wholly or partly along or across a cycle track") applies equally to RRM022 (solid) and RMM023 (dashed) as does the exception for "a vehicle being driven for the purpose of access to or egress from a place adjacent to the cycle track or from a roadway to such a place".

Refs

Section 14
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print

Road markings
http://trafficsigns.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/07-traffic-signs-manual-2010-chapter-7-road-markings.pdf

2012 fixed that and basically made "advisory" cycle tracks a total waste of paint.

(5)(a) A mechanically propelled vehicle, other than a mechanically propelled wheelchair, shall not be driven along or across a cycle track on the right hand edge of which traffic sign number RRM 022 [B]-Solid-[/B] has been provided, save for the purposes of access to or egress from a place adjacent to the cycle track or from a roadway to such a place.

tomasrojo

I guess the updated SIs make combination traffic lanes/cycle tracks legal then.

ED E

Yes.

The only thing they do is prohibit parking for more then 30 minutes or for purposes other than loading/unloading. The fact that most are colocated with clearways during the same hours makes them totally futile.

They exist to let local authorities like South Dublin CoCo say we built X km of cycling infra last year when they talk about lanes that nobody can use.


IMO these lanes encourage passing as close as possible without entering the lane.

tomasrojo

I'd refine that a tiny bit: a lot of the dashed-line lanes are usable enough; they're just not definitiveely any more usable than the road was before it was painted. I think, on the one hand, they encourage close passes, as you say. On the other hand, motorists do seem to keep off them at rush hour, to a surprising extent, meaning that there usually is a clear path up the side of stationary traffic where cycle tracks have been painted, and I don't think that's as true where they haven't been painted.