Leaf 2018 rapid gate real world question

Fastpud

Hi,

Just about pull trigger on upgrading my 30kw Leaf for a 2018 40kw Leaf and was wondering if any current 40kw owners have experienced the slowing of the fast charging. I do Dublin Galway Dublin in a single day about once a month with 3 rapid charges, Athlone, Galway, athlone. Will I be impacted?
The greater range should meant less charging and therefor better journey time but if this is offset by throttled charging....
If there is a 40kw owner out there who can shed some insights I would be very grateful

Cheers

ELM327

Fastpud wrote: »

Hi,

Just about pull trigger on upgrading my 30kw Leaf for a 2018 40kw Leaf and was wondering if any current 40kw owners have experienced the slowing of the fast charging. I do Dublin Galway Dublin in a single day about once a month with 3 rapid charges, Athlone, Galway, athlone. Will I be impacted?
The greater range should meant less charging and therefor better journey time but if this is offset by throttled charging....
If there is a 40kw owner out there who can shed some insights I would be very grateful

Cheers

Yes you will.
On the second charge you will be reduced to 22-30kW depending on latent heat, and for the third charge probably below 22kW.



Some interesting videos on the subject:
Short one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpwyue9IiBE


Race between 40kWh and Ioniq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj3MsS9M3dE&t=2997s


And this one really shows the problem with the leaf 40, as it loses by a couple of hours versus a leaf 30!:eek:
Race between 30kWh, 40kWh and Ioniq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKlLuPLgKn0



Two detailed videos from Bjorn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nv8SSdVvj8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foSYZ7bVhYk

Round Cable

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes you will.
On the second charge you will be reduced to 22-30kW depending on latent heat, and for the third charge probably below 22kW.



Some interesting videos on the subject:
Short one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpwyue9IiBE


Race between 40kWh and Ioniq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj3MsS9M3dE&t=2997s


And this one really shows the problem with the leaf 40, as it loses by a couple of hours versus a leaf 30!:eek:
Race between 30kWh, 40kWh and Ioniq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKlLuPLgKn0



Two detailed videos from Bjorn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nv8SSdVvj8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foSYZ7bVhYk

To be fair, the poster should no longer need 3 fast charges with a 40kWh Leaf,

Also, Galway - Dublin return is about 250 miles, not the 450 miles that was shown in that video,

It all depends on the individual usage patterns.

Soarer

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes you will.
On the second charge you will be reduced to 22-30kW depending on latent heat, and for the third charge probably below 22kW.

Not necessarily.

It'll depend on speed, temperature, battery percentage.

If he starts at 100% and sits at 100km/h, he might make it with one fast charge (maybe a second splash and dash).

Conversely if he sits at 130km/h and needs multiple charges, he'll get caught.

There are ways of living with #rapidgate. Obviously there shouldn't be any need to "live with it", but such is life.

ELM327

Round Cable wrote: »

To be fair, the poster should no longer need 3 fast charges with a 40kWh Leaf,

Also, Galway - Dublin return is about 250 miles, not the 450 miles that was shown in that video,

It all depends on the individual usage patterns.

He specified 3 fast chargers... maybe he has no destination charging and needs to return same day.


Never claimed it was 450 miles, merely tried to show some helpful videos

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

Not necessarily.

It'll depend on speed, temperature, battery percentage.

If he starts at 100% and sits at 100km/h, he might make it with one fast charge (maybe a second splash and dash).

Conversely if he sits at 130km/h and needs multiple charges, he'll get caught.

There are ways of living with #rapidgate. Obviously there shouldn't be any need to "live with it", but such is life.

True, but to make the decision about sitting at leafspeed 100km/h indicated, he would need to know of the rapidgate implications.


We've discussed this in the past on this forum, the conclusion (afair) from the last thread was that once people are aware of it and work around it it's less of an issue, and the L40 suits people who do 200km or less a day. I agreed with that and my position has not changed.

Round Cable

ELM327 wrote: »

He specified 3 fast chargers... maybe he has no destination charging and needs to return same day.


Never claimed it was 450 miles, merely tried to show some helpful videos

My understanding was 3 fast charges with the current 30kWh Leaf, but may be wrong there.

I never said you claimed that, the video you linked was a 450 mile test. It is around these ranges that rapidgate become a huge issue, and this is millage that is 120km further than Malin head to Mizen head. So unless your Leaf is going to be taken off the island, these distances in a day are unlikely to be faced by the poster. But again as a warning of limitations of the car, that video is informative.

ELM327

It was a warning of the limitations of the car.
30kWh and 24kWh can handle many more than 3 fast charges. I put 10 one day on my 24kWh!

Gumbo

Round Cable wrote: »

My understanding was 3 fast charges with the current 30kWh Leaf, but may be wrong there.

I never said you claimed that, the video you linked was a 450 mile test. It is around these ranges that rapidgate become a huge issue, and this is millage that is 120km further than Malin head to Mizen head. So unless your Leaf is going to be taken off the island, these distances in a day are unlikely to be faced by the poster. But again as a warning of limitations of the car, that video is informative.

That was my understanding too, the OP currently does 3 Fast Charges to do that trip in his 30kwh car.
With the L40, he may need less charges or indeed, less time at each charge thus reducing the impact?

ELM327

kceire wrote: »

That was my understanding too, the OP currently does 3 Fast Charges to do that trip in his 30kwh car.
With the L40, he may need less charges or indeed, less time at each charge thus reducing the impact?

More charging time at less stops > less charging time at more stops, when it comes to the L40, since the "rapidgate variable" is set at the start of each charge session.

Dublin - Galway - Dublin is showing as 420km on Google Maps.
If he can do it in 3 in the L30, probably achievable with one stop in the L40.

DrPhilG

The OP needs to tell us how fast he/she drives.

If you plod along at 80kmph one fast charge would be fine.

If you like to actually drive those car however, you would need a second stop to do 250 miles and rapidgate would be a factor.

For properly long trips, i.e. over 1 rapid charge and/or multiple day trips it might be beneficial to to charge early and do number of 40-90 % (50 percent) type of charges instead of for example 10-80 percent charges (=70 percent added). That way the average charge rate is lower, which is bad, but actually good in case of L40 as the battery heats up less doing so. 50 percent charge on L40 is approx. 18-19 kWh i.e. comparable to 5-90 on L24. In summer the charges would happen in both cars every 100 km or so driven at real 100 km/h. I suspect that each half a battery charging session will take approx. 30-40 minutes which should ensure less generated heat than if you charged for 40 minutes at full blast.

Also make sure you always use destination chargers where possible. Each 3 hours of charging at 27+ A chargers nets 100 km of range without noticeably heating up the battery.

Our car will cover maybe 7000 km over next 5 weeks so going to find out for sure what works the best. So far the car has just short of 9k on odo since mid-April with a very few rapid charges. This will drastically change of course.

Fastpud

Hey thanks for all the replies.
I typically drive at 100-105kms (as per Leaf display), but only do this to conserve battery and increase range. Was hoping that the extra battery would allow additional speed but for now let’s keep the speed the same.
At that speed new leaf might just scrape into Galway but for safety would probably have to charge in Ballinasloe, that leaves 68km to Galway and back to Ballinasloe is another 68kms, might have enough to get to Athlone as it is only 25kms. Would need a decent sized FC to get back to Dublin. That would leave me with two FC in one day. At per the first video linked above the issue seems to occur on third or subsequent FCs so I may miss the problem entirely. Am I understanding this correctly

Will type 2 charging impact on the heat? As current leaf is only 3.3kw changer I avoided the type 2 chargers but with 6.6kw in new leaf may make it worth while if it doesn’t add to heat. Normally have 3-4 hours of car parked before return journey.

Cheers
Fastpud

DrPhilG

Slow charging shouldn't affect your heat.

If you are only just needing 2 fast charges then you should be OK. You can minimise the effects of rapidgate by not going outside of 20-80% on the charger. So start it before you go below 20% and stop before 80%.

So rather than driving to 10% and charging to 80% and then needing a small charge later, try to charge around 30% to 75% twice or thereabouts.

Having said that, I am too stubborn to live with such compromise and faff. But if you're willing to work around rapidgate, it shouldn't affect you too badly.

My main worry is that all of us will be affected by rapidgate due to those who don't know about the issue or its workarounds and instead just clog up the public network for us all.

3-4 hours at a proper charge point would be enough to something between 50-75 percent to the battery so definitely worth it. However there are some 3.7 kW/ 16 Amp chargers lurking around which are pain in the neck as they only add 10 percent of charge per hour.

For the day return might be worth topping up in Athlone already back to 90 percent and then leave the car charging at 32 Amp SCP while in Galway which should bring it up back to close to 100 percent again.

For the return leg you can charge for example at Applegreen Kinnegad for 15 minutes to get the required extra 20-50 km of range you need to make it to Dublin. Even if the car at that stage only takes 22 kW, 15 minutes is just over 5 kWh which should be enough for approx. extra 30-35 km of range. If it charges at 33 kW or higher you can get about 50 km of range in 15 minutes.

maclek

I just did Ennis to Dublin today. There were 5 adults and a full boot which does make a difference.

Left Ennis at 92% and stopped at the rapid in Nenagh at 56% Had a very nice lunch for 45 minutes and the car was up to 96%. Looking at it on the phone it shot up to 80% and then slowed down. Once back in the car the battery temperature was not elevated. Drove the 170km to Dublin in one go and had 18% left at the end, about 50km left. I was driving at 114kph indicated and had the autopilot on the whole way. Makes the drive super easy.

liamog

maclek wrote: »

I just did Ennis to Dublin today. There were 5 adults and a full boot which does make a difference.

Left Ennis at 92% and stopped at the rapid in Nenagh at 56% Had a very nice lunch for 45 minutes and the car was up to 96%. Looking at it on the phone it shot up to 80% and then slowed down. Once back in the car the battery temperature was not elevated. Drove the 170km to Dublin in one go and had 18% left at the end, about 50km left. I was driving at 114kph indicated and had the autopilot on the whole way. Makes the drive super easy.

Tying up a rapid charger for 45 minutes whilst adding 90km of range is exactly why I'm so annoyed by Rapidgate. My eUp adds that range in 20 minutes and our Ioniq in 17. I'm sure you were diligent and keeping an eye out for other users, but I really think Nissan have created a lemon.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Dublin - Galway - Dublin is showing as 420km on Google Maps. If he can do it in 3 in the L30, probably achievable with one stop in the L40.

Not a chance of only one stop. That would mean 210km range then charge to 100% (antisocial if done on the fast charger and it would take forever) and do another 210km range. Unless he drives well, well below 100km/h

OP should get a 72h test drive while the weather is still reasonably warm (20C), drive like he would like to drive and see what the impact is on the charging

And take into account the impact of all those new L40 on the road that take a long time charging :eek:

If it were me, that kinda trip looks ideal in a Kona 64kWh as you would not have to charge at all if you keep to about 100km/h. And soon you could do it at 140km/h with one no wait Ionity 15 minute charge stop

If it were me, I would keep my L30 for another wee while and see how it pans out. The L40 really is not a good vehicle for such a long distance trip if you have to do it that often

maclek

liamog wrote: »

Tying up a rapid charger for 45 minutes whilst adding 90km of range is exactly why I'm so annoyed by Rapidgate. My eUp adds that range in 20 minutes and our Ioniq in 17. I'm sure you were diligent and keeping an eye out for other users, but I really think Nissan have created a lemon.

You're making quite a leap. The car wasn't affected by rapidgate, it just takes a while for any car past 80%. I did leave my mobile number on the dash but the Nenagh charger is not very busy which is why I stopped there instead of further up the M7. As I said it went to 80% very quickly as expected.

The car is fantastic and calling it a lemon is unjustified.

liamog

maclek wrote: »

You're making quite a leap. The car wasn't affected by rapidgate, it just takes a while for any car past 80%. I did leave my mobile number on the dash but the Nenagh charger is not very busy which is why I stopped there instead of further up the M7. As I said it went to 80% very quickly as expected.

The car is fantastic and calling it a lemon is unjustified.

I thought that was fixed for basically any car after the Gen1 24kWh Leaf. Leaf 30 is still pulling 30kW at 90% according to Fastned.

So not only is their Rapidgate to contend with theirs also an inconsiderate rapid charging profile to contend with? Like I said, Lemon.

ELM327

maclek wrote: »

You're making quite a leap. The car wasn't affected by rapidgate, it just takes a while for any car past 80%. I did leave my mobile number on the dash but the Nenagh charger is not very busy which is why I stopped there instead of further up the M7. As I said it went to 80% very quickly as expected.

The car is fantastic and calling it a lemon is unjustified.

Ioniq is approx 10 mins 80% to 94%.
Leaf 30 pulls strongly up to the mid 90's aswell.
It's just the L24 (I had one so I know how bad it is!!) and the L40 that are affected by this.

Calahonda52

maclek wrote: »

You're making quite a leap. The car wasn't affected by rapidgate, it just takes a while for any car past 80%. I did leave my mobile number on the dash but the Nenagh charger is not very busy which is why I stopped there instead of further up the M7. As I said it went to 80% very quickly as expected.

The car is fantastic and calling it a lemon is unjustified.

perhaps
Lemongate:D

Fastpud

maclek wrote: »

Drove the 170km to Dublin in one go and had 18% left at the end, about 50km left. I was driving at 114kph indicated and had the autopilot on the whole way. Makes the drive super easy.

170km with full car @ 114kmh with 78% of the battery! That’s a total range of 217 in real world conditions! Thats amazing.
Looked back at all the return day trips I did over the past two years and longest are Galway and Limerick cities, which should be easily doable with full FC, street charging and a splash and dash right at the end, so should L40 should be ok regardless of rapidgate

...Ghost...

If the OP is going to get the L40, he will get to Galway at his current driving speeds without a charge. He can charge in Galway and return the same way. If the OP is just doing a drop off, or collection in Galway (not staying for a couple of hours) then a quick top up in Athlone before going below 20% SOC would be all that is needed and he could drive a bit faster on the return leg. Nissan could have done better, but Hyundai could have painted the front bumper and put in some decent seats. Every car has their drawbacks and we are where we are. Overall, I would have to say that the Leaf40 is a good car and I would own one in a second. The range on my L24 does me perfectly fine for now.

Calahonda52

...Ghost... wrote: »

If the OP is going to get the L40, he will get to Galway at his current driving speeds without a charge. He can charge in Galway and return the same way. If the OP is just doing a drop off, or collection in Galway (not staying for a couple of hours) then a quick top up in Athlone before going below 20% SOC would be all that is needed and he could drive a bit faster on the return leg. Nissan could have done better, but Hyundai could have painted the front bumper and put in some decent seats. Every car has their drawbacks and we are where we are. Overall, I would have to say that the Leaf40 is a good car and I would own one in a second. The range on my L24 does me perfectly fine for now.

The above assumes that all the charging kit is working, not to mind the time delays if chargers are busy.
I have put 36k miles on my L30, but have now gone back to petrol because job has changed, longer drives, can't make 5 or 6 appointments a day and rely on the pubic network for charging between appointments

...Ghost...

Calahonda52 wrote: »

The above assumes that all the charging kit is working, not to mind the time delays if chargers are busy.
I have put 36k miles on my L30, but have now gone back to petrol because job has changed, longer drives, can't make 5 or 6 appointments a day and rely on the pubic network for charging between appointments

Without knowing more from the OP, some assumptions have to be made. We don't know how long he stays in Galway, or where his start and end point are, which matters for Galway in particular.

Your need profile is very different. The OP has a single long trip per month which can be done on a single charge if he is in Galway for a couple of hours. I haven't made that assumption, but it is unlikely that he would be there only briefly with no time to get a full charge.

liamog

...Ghost... wrote: »

Nissan could have done better, but Hyundai could have painted the front bumper and put in some decent seats. Every car has their drawbacks and we are where we are. Overall, I would have to say that the Leaf40 is a good car and I would own one in a second. The range on my L24 does me perfectly fine for now.

Hyundai's bumper choice is not going to impact anybody else (unless you crash, then the bumper will literally impact the other person but that's not what I mean)


The Leaf40 is a great car if you never have to rapid charge, however because of choices that Nissan have made, lack of TMS, and not stopping the rapid charge before the charge rate drops. The car will have a hugely negative impact on other users of the public network.


Any EV driver is now more likely to come across a slow charging Leaf40 and could be waiting for an extended period. They should of stuck a 22kW AC charger in it if the battery is that sensitive.

unkel

...Ghost... wrote: »

Hyundai could have painted the front bumper

Yeah that's ugly. Had mine wrapped in glossy black. Cost me EUR90

Any chance you could get a man to install active cooling on the L40 battery for under a ton? :pac:

Fastpud

Fastpud wrote: »

Hi,

Just about pull trigger on upgrading my 30kw Leaf for a 2018 40kw Leaf and was wondering if any current 40kw owners have experienced the slowing of the fast charging. I do Dublin Galway Dublin in a single day about once a month with 3 rapid charges, Athlone, Galway, athlone. Will I be impacted?
The greater range should meant less charging and therefor better journey time but if this is offset by throttled charging....
If there is a 40kw owner out there who can shed some insights I would be very grateful

Cheers

If I were you I'd hold off for the 60 kwh, you'll be glad you did, whether you need the range a lot or not being more independent from the disgraceful charging network as much as possible is always a good thing, then if you do get a charger that's not in use and have to wait an hour or more for a charge you would be kicking yourself you didn't hold off for the 60 Kwh.

you got the 30 Kwh now, imagine twice the range or a bit more if the new model is a bit more efficient ?

Yes sooner or later the inevitability of suffering the charging network whether you have 20-30-40 or 100 Kwh of battery storage, but the less you depend on it the better.

If I was in the market right now I would hold off another 1-1.5 years.

Just remember the wheel spin in the 40 Kwh is just ridiculously frustrating in damp and wet, pull out of a junction and it's like you're driving on ICE !

RobAMerc

Jeeze - I was just about to buy a 40kwh Leaf till I read this, now I am not so sure.

Could I live with a 40kwh leaf or any EV.

Am I dreaming to think I could leave home with 100%, drive at 130kph, stop at Applegreen Enfield for 40 mins, continue to Galway, plug into the 3 pin, drive at 130kph back to Applegreen for 30 mins and make it back to Dublin ?

@6

Depends on where home to Enfield is ?

Charging at AC point will take about 7 hrs @6.5 Kw,

Range at 130 Km/h would be ( roughly) 170 Kms ( to empty ) based on about 22-23 kwh/100 Kms of the 1st Gen leaf so if the new one is any better please inform us. The speedometer in the 2nd Gen is more close to reality than the old one.

Fast charge at normal temp will take 40 mins to 80% or 1.5 hrs at about 22 Kw is the battery suffers throttling.

Slow down to 100-110 Km/h can make all the difference, need less charge + less battery heating. Charging on AC as much as you can is always best.

But my advise would be to hold off until the 60 kwh, the difference being night and day, I can drive hard as I want and charge as much as I want in the i3 and it will never suffer heat related throttling while charging + having the extra range and 100 kw charging will be a massive, massive difference when the ESb install new chargers which will hopefully be 100+ Kw , this is where the future is , not with 50 kw chargers which was ok back in 2011 .

RobAMerc

home to applegreen is 55km - and 160 rest of the journey to Galway.

What I am hearing is @110kph it probably is doable.

If I understand you correctly though the 64kw is great and all but the benefits need new hardware installation by ESB to be fully realised ?

RobAMerc

RobAMerc wrote: »

home to applegreen is 55km - and 160 rest of the journey to Galway.

What I am hearing is @110kph it probably is doable.

If I understand you correctly though the 64kw is great and all but the benefits need new hardware installation by ESB to be fully realised ?

@110 Km/h you'd likely get 19 Kwh/100 Kms giving you roughly 200 Kms from about 38 Kwh usable and that's to empty so you'd want to be prepared to be at a charger before that.

60 Kwh is the storage capacity of the battery, the 60 Kwh Leaf will charge at 100 Kw but yes, the ESB or whoever need 100+ Kw capable chargers and it's going to take a few years for these chargers to be rolled out in meaningful numbers. If they're serious about making this a business then they need a proper infrastructure and 50 Kw chargers just won't make the ESB appear to be in any way serious about their future in EV charging.

I wouldn't like to have to pay for 50 kw if my car could take a 100 Kw charge.

Ionity are rolling out 150 Kw chargers, the first of which should be installed here somewhere on one of the Motorways by the end of the year, it will be a site of 4 x 150 chargers far from the single charger the ESB installed per site, however, the Ionity chargers will be CCS and will not be compatible with the leafs ChaDeMo socket.

However, just imagine the first site the ESB installed 100+ Kw chargers was on one of your most frequent routes and you had the 60 Kwh leaf ? I can't imagine the ESB limiting themselves to CCS only, if they want to make a business out of it then it makes sense to include ChaDeMo cars , it would br frustrating to see Leaf 40 Kwh stuck at a 100+ kw charger crippled to 20 odd Kw charging !

But either way, 100 Kw charging or not, 60 Kwh makes a big difference.

23 Kwh/100 Kms at 120-130 Km/h would get you 252 Kms, might not seem a lot but a 24 kwh Leaf might get 80 Kms at that speed with 21 usable Kwh !

Slow down to 120 and you could get an extra 10-20 Kms, 110 Km/h and get an extra 50 Kms etc.

So 170 odd Kms V 250 ?

RobAMerc

I get it that the 64kw is a far better option, but I am looking to buy now and will probably be looking to change again in 2 years when hopefully I have a lot more options.
I've looked at an i3 - no way I could live with the size I am afraid.

RobAMerc

RobAMerc wrote: »

I get it that the 64kw is a far better option, but I am looking to buy now and will probably be looking to change again in 2 years when hopefully I have a lot more options.
I've looked at an i3 - no way I could live with the size I am afraid.

I thought I couldn't live with the i3 too be here I am 7.5 months later..... lol, drive it first regardless whether you could have it or not. I got 2 Boys, 2.5 and 4 and manage fine.

Looking to buy now is grand but there's a lot better so close, it's not like when I got the Leaf, better seemed so far away.

Leaf 60 Kwh should also be far more desirable 2nd hand which could potentially make 2nd hand values a lot higher.

RobAMerc

I've just spent a week touring around in a 5 series estate with it packed to the rafters.
But the biggest issue is the 4 seat configuration. I have to be able to accommodate the kids and granny regularly enough.

Yeah sure the i3 is not for everyone, we have the outlander for the rare occasion we need to carry more people or stuff.

We got two cars so a small fun car for me is good enough. Beauty about the i3 rex is that you're not limited to queuing at chargers or suffer broken chargers.

But, funny enough, we wouldn't be able to carry a 3rd person in the Outlander on the rear seat with the Child seats so we stuff poor Granny in the child seat in the boot, it's the seven seater but we wouldn't be going very long distance, If we were and needed to carry 4 Adults + 2 Children we'd probably take the two cars anyway.

RobAMerc

I have an MX5, the Leaf would be the family car.

bp_me

samih wrote: »

Our car will cover maybe 7000 km over next 5 weeks so going to find out for sure what works the best.

Have you seen this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgrbT_YxhMs Seems like this guy may have done a lot of the ground work for you.

What I would do is take the 40 Kwh Leaf on this Galway trip and then think to yourself, would 305-350 Kms be better than 211-250 Kms ( give or take based on 19 Kwh/100 Km efficiency not motorway speeds) ? all from your home charger, and if we see 100+ Kw chargers in the next year or two, do you think that charging at a potentially low 22 Kw if you run into battery heating issues is better than charging at 100 Kw ? at the very least you'll be able to charge at the full 50 Kw for the duration of the needed charge or at least until 80-85%.

Or as rumours suggest and most likely correct at this stage, if Leaf 60 Kwh has 22 Kw AC charging then needing fast chargers could be a rare event altogether as 22 Kw charger would give you 22 or close Kwh in 1 hr or 44 Kwh in 2 Hrs, this would be a really fantastic solution in Ireland with our so many 22 Kw AC charge points.

In actual fact, this 22 Kw charging on AC is about the same rate as you may charge on a fast charger ( on DC ) if you run into battery heating issues in the 40 Kwh.

22 Kw is deemed slow charging on a 50 Kw+ charger but when plugged in in town when you reach your destination you can have a fully charged 60 Kwh battery in about 3 hrs, that's bloody fantastic and then you're ready for another 300-350 odd Kms trip !

But, I do not know 100% of Leaf 60 Kwh will indeed have 22 Kw charger or if it will be optional.

unkel

RobAMerc wrote: »

I get it that the 64kw is a far better option, but I am looking to buy now

Leaf 60kWh is unlikely on Irish plates until 2020, same for Tesla Model 3

Kona 64kWh (real life range 470km) is out now, probably in Irish show rooms in the next few weeks (presumably for delivery in January). It is small if you want to have 3 people in the back regularly though. Kia Niro 64kWh is a size bigger and probably ideal for you, but not out until next year

RobAMerc wrote: »

and will probably be looking to change again in 2 years when hopefully I have a lot more options.

Yes there will be a lot more options in 2 years time. With the 175kW private Ionity CCS chargers in place and the Leaf 40 with presumably an unresolved cooling issue and only able to charge on public CHAdeMO chargers (which with continued lack of investment will be extremely crowded by then - unless hefty paid charging comes in), you could possibly be in for a very nasty surprise in relation to resale value if you bought Leaf 40 now

RobAMerc

unkel wrote: »

you could possibly be in for a very nasty surprise in relation to resale value if you bought Leaf 40 now

This is an issue I cannot shake. Despite it being brand new, I am buying something I know to be obsolete in the very short term. However, 1) I think with new tech, that could be said of any EV, 2) I am looking at PCP so as to insulate myself from the worry of residuals as you have the GMFV ( I presume no one ever gets more than that back )

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

Kona 64kWh (real life range 470km) is out now, probably in Irish show rooms in the next few weeks (presumably for delivery in January). It is small if you want to have 3 people in the back regularly though. Kia Niro 64kWh is a size bigger and probably ideal for you, but not out until next year

The Kona definitely won't be in showrooms in the next few weeks. UK dealers aren't even getting demos til after release. Its online ordering only from August 2nd for a small batch to be delivered in September, UK and Irish dealers both claiming they will have demos in September and the second round of orders are for 191 delivery.

Kia Ireland and Kia UK have both told me that they hope to have demos out late this year for 191 deliveries but they're not less optimistic about 2018 demos than Hyundai.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Kona 64kWh (real life range 470km) is out now,

470 Kms ? Not a hope in winter, wind, wet and motorway driving, not even close !

And good luck getting one in the next year.

I'd say more realistic would be 336 Kms at 64 Kwh usable if it is usable this would be efficiency of 19 Kwh/100 km, but if that can be achieved at 120 that would be impressive, that is of course to empty.

WLTP would imply 14.5 Kwh/100 Kms efficiency combined with very little speeds of 120 Km/h and probably little sustained at 100 Km/h also, just like the EPA test.

Of course 14.5 Kwh/100 Km will likely be achieved at more urban speeds.

FriendsEV

RobAMerc wrote: »

This is an issue I cannot shake. Despite it being brand new, I am buying something I know to be obsolete in the very short term. However, 1) I think with new tech, that could be said of any EV, 2) I am looking at PCP so as to insulate myself from the worry of residuals as you have the GMFV ( I presume no one ever gets more than that back )

Yeah I think until mainstream Evs get to the end game of about 100kWh/500km/15min charging this will be the case

Its been good so far for residuals as progress and availability has been so slow, new Leaf is flawed, but Ioniq, e-golf, i3 are great cars

Its still 4-5 years till the big players have battery supply sorted, Leaf 40kWh on PCP for 3 years isnt the worst place to spend it

Rapidgate isn't such a disaster too for 99% of drivers, it's capable of 300km motorway driving daily on 1 charge, 110k km a year without issue

Its a fantastic drive too, drove one last week in Limerick, goes like a GTi off the line.

If they were 23-24k I would buy one myself, 30k is too much, expect the 60kWh version for that price

RobAMerc

FriendsEV wrote: »

Its been good so far for residuals as progress and availability has been so slow, new Leaf is flawed, but Ioniq, e-golf, i3 are great cars

So whats so much better about those than the Leaf ?
I get the i3 is a better car to drive, range etc than the others but why are so many here ragging on the Leaf ?

FriendsEV

RobAMerc wrote: »

So whats so much better about those than the Leaf ?
I get the i3 is a better car to drive, range etc than the others but why are so many here ragging on the Leaf ?

i3 is a masterpiece of engineering

Liquid cooling, carbon fibre, long life battery ( 3000+ cycles), quick as a hot hatch, petrol generator if you run out of electric

Ioniq and é-Golf are not masterpieces of engineering, just good solid cars, with passive cooling and no charging issues

Leaf 40kWh is a flawed machine, battery with no cooling, that gets hot when rapid charged, even reports of its going into limp mode when driven hard

Nissan cheaped out basically, its a money grab

Still a good car though all things considered

liamog

The Ioniq has fan cooling, and in some regions an active battery heater.

FriendsEV

liamog wrote: »

The Ioniq has fan cooling, and in some regions an active battery heater.

True

Does the e-golf have a fan too?

unkel

RobAMerc wrote: »

This is an issue I cannot shake. Despite it being brand new, I am buying something I know to be obsolete in the very short term.

It really is impossible to call. We've all learnt in the past year that the demand for EVs new and second hand has far outstripped supply (actually leading to negative depreciation on second hand EVs). Presumably because people have started to realise the advantages of EVs and the the almost certainty that EVs is the way forward. This could very well stay the same for quite some time, keeping EV prices nice and steady

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

470 Kms ? Not a hope in winter, wind, wet and motorway driving, not even close !

Well that's the official new supposedly real life WLTP range (similar to EPA range)

Ioniq is EPA rated for 200km and you can easily enough get that even in winter. but no, not at 120km/h in rain with head wind and when it is -10C