Dunnes self service and a big bag of copper coins

Spon Farmer

Hello,

I have a bag of copper coins that I'm guessing comes to about €30.

I'm on my way to Dunnes for some snacks. If I put in all those copper coins to the self service checkout will it just return those coins to me in the change or will it change it more manageable cash like notes and euro coins?

Cheers

gingernut79

It'll stop taking money off you when you pay for whatever you buy, so yes, it will just spit the rest back if you manage to put excess in.

Lenny

You can only put in the required amount of money,. Ie bill is 29.90,
you can put in 50in coins and get, as soon you put in 29.90 or more the machine will not accept anymore coins and finish the sale

Spon Farmer

gingernut79 wrote: »

It'll stop taking money off you when you pay for whatever you buy, so yes, it will just spit the rest back if you manage to put excess in.

Lenny wrote: »

You can only put in the required amount of money,. Ie bill is 29.90,
you can put in 50in coins and get, as soon you put in 29.90 or more the machine will not accept anymore coins and finish the sale

Of course.

I was thinking the checkouts waited until you press Finish after putting in the coins but it is actually "Finish & Pay"

Thanks to you both

EDIT: Can a checkout operator refuse to accept the coins? I wouldn't do it to the girls in Dunnes but I'm just wondering

L1011

Checkout operators can and probably will refuse if you're trying to hand in massive amounts. You basically need to get rid of them over multiple transactions or bank them

GerardKeating

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Can a checkout operator refuse to accept the coins? I wouldn't do it to the girls in Dunnes but I'm just wondering

The is a legal limit to the amount of coin a retailer is required to accept, i think it is 50 coins or so.

Spon Farmer

L1011 wrote: »

Checkout operators can and probably will refuse if you're trying to hand in massive amounts. You basically need to get rid of them over multiple transactions or bank them

Yes, but I never around to bringing them to the bank.

I was hoping to have more manageable denominations for something early tomorrow but no harm.

dudara

You can use a maximum of 50 coins to settle any transaction. If you exceed that limit, retailers do not have to accept payment.

Del2005

GerardKeating wrote: »

The is a legal limit to the amount of coin a retailer is required to accept, i think it is 20 coins or so.

50 coins is the max

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Yes, but I never around to bringing them to the bank.

I was hoping to have more manageable denominations for something early tomorrow but no harm.

If you have them bagged try the customer service desk, they will give you notes. If not bagged then you have no luck.

Spon Farmer

dudara wrote: »

You can use a maximum of 50 coins to settle any transaction. If you exceed that limit, retailers do not have to accept payment.

I didn't know that.

Does that also apply to the self service checkouts?

Gerard93

Tesco have coin machines will take the coin count it and give you receipt that customer service will then give you cash for.
They take a small % for the service

GerardKeating

Gerard93 wrote: »

Tesco have coin machines will take the coin count it and give you receipt that customer service will then give you cash for.
They take a small % for the service

Not so small, some of them take almost 10%

Del2005

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I didn't know that.

Does that also apply to the self service checkouts?

You can shovel cent coins into the machine till you have paid. But please think about others and only do it when the store is quite.

Spon Farmer

Del2005 wrote: »

You can shovel cent coins into the machine till you have paid. But please think about others and only do it when the store is quite.

Ah now, I'm not one of those.

mickjohnlong

Gerard93 wrote:

Tesco have coin machines will take the coin count it and give you receipt that customer service will then give you cash for. They take a small % for the service

GerardKeating wrote:

Not so small, some of them take almost 10%

If you put your coins into the machine in Tesco. Then use the voucher to buy something the % is waived. And they will give change back from the voucher as well without the %.

Alpha_zero

Del2005 wrote: »

You can shovel cent coins into the machine till you have paid. But please think about others and only do it when the store is quite.

Don't think about others, it's legal tender. You want to get use the coins go when you please

dudara

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I didn't know that.

Does that also apply to the self service checkouts?

I honestly don’t know.

Del2005

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Don't think about others, it's legal tender. You want to get use the coins go when you please

Anymore than 50 coins is not legal tender! And since it's a shop you have no debt to pay so the shop could refuse to take any money off you and ask you to leave.

Sinus pain

mickjohnlong wrote: »

If you put your coins into the machine in Tesco. Then use the voucher to buy something the % is waived. And they will give change back from the voucher as well without the %.

The % is always taken. The machine calculates the % before you get your voucher so regardless of whether you spend the money on goods or cash out the percentage is taken. The self scans will take as many coins as you feed them - I worked in Tesco cash office for years - the self scans in Tesco recycle the coins except for the 2 c and 20c ( that was back in my day anyways) so lots of coin is always welcome. It won’t let you over pay though so just use it a couple of times

Alpha_zero

Del2005 wrote: »

Anymore than 50 coins is not legal tender! And since it's a shop you have no debt to pay so the shop could refuse to take any money off you and ask you to leave.

That policy could be open to some litigation, surely you owe money for the goods that you intend to purchase. When the goods are put through the till you owe a sum of money and the coins then suffice as legal tender, in order to balance what you owe.

surely one would construe that as a debt.

colm_mcm

I had the Tesco one stop taking coins, thought I could get rid of a load.

dudara

Alpha_zero wrote: »

That policy could be open to some litigation, surely you owe money for the goods that you intend to purchase. When the goods are put through the till you owe a sum of money and the coins then suffice as legal tender, in order to balance what you owe.

surely one would construe that as a debt.

The onus is on you to provide payment of your debt, within the 50 coin limit. In excess of 50 coins does not constitute legal tender

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Alpha_zero wrote: »

That policy could be open to some litigation, surely you owe money for the goods that you intend to purchase. When the goods are put through the till you owe a sum of money and the coins then suffice as legal tender, in order to balance what you owe.

surely one would construe that as a debt.

No. Putting them through the till doesn't create a debt and the shop can cancel or refuse if they wished.

coylemj

Alpha_zero wrote: »

That policy could be open to some litigation, surely you owe money for the goods that you intend to purchase.

That theory falls on the basis of the word 'intend' - you can intend anything you like but in the case of a retail transaction, the store can refuse to sell you the item in which case there is no transfer of ownership and therefore no debt arises.

Alpha_zero wrote: »

When the goods are put through the till you owe a sum of money and the coins then suffice as legal tender, in order to balance what you owe.

surely one would construe that as a debt.

Having an item in your hand with the intention of paying for it does not give rise to a debt. If the store refuses the transaction, there is no debt and legal tender does not arise.

Alpha_zero

dudara wrote: »

The onus is on you to provide payment of your debt, within the 50 coin limit. In excess of 50 coins does not constitute legal tender

Sorry I don't have my copy of the Irish constitution to hand.

Mongfinder General

I’ve done this in tesco at the self service check outs. I put about €15 in 1,2,5,10 cent coins,

Staplor

Just take it easy, too many coins will jam the machine

L1011

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Sorry I don't have my copy of the Irish constitution to hand.

The constitution may be broad but this is in legislation, not the constitution

Alpha_zero

Arabella Modern Diagram wrote: »

No. Putting them through the till doesn't create a debt and the shop can cancel or refuse if they wished.

Ok but the cashier will ask you to pay for your goods, what's the definition of a debt again

davetherave

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Sorry I don't have my copy of the Irish constitution to hand.

You don't need a copy of Bunreacht Na hÉireann, just a copy of the Economic and Monetary Union Act 1998

Here is a handy link
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/38/enacted/en/print.html

And this is the relevant paragraph

Legal tender amounts of coins.

10.—(1) No person, other than the Central Bank of Ireland and such persons as may be designated by the Minister by order, shall be obliged to accept more than 50 coins denominated in euro or in cent in any single transaction.

Alpha_zero

L1011 wrote: »

The constitution may be broad but this is in legislation, not the constitution

Does the constitution say that there is 50 coin maximum? The OP should buy one at Dunnes.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Ok but the cashier will ask you to pay for your goods, what's the definition of a debt again

You are paying for something immediately. No debt is incurred. (Except perhaps with your credit card company).

Op, I’d use the Tesco coin machine. See the percentage as a small cost to get a service.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Does the constitution say that there is 50 coin maximum? The OP should buy one at Dunnes.

The constitution doesn’t mention this kind of stuff at all.

Alpha_zero

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The constitution doesn’t mention this kind of stuff at all.

I'd be surprised if it doesn't mention legal Tender, of which is will state both coins and bank notes suffice as that

Franz Von Peppercorn

Alpha_zero wrote: »

I'd be surprised if it doesn't mention legal Tender, of which is will state both coins and bank notes suffice as that

For debt payments.

mickjohnlong

Sinus pain wrote:

The % is always taken. The machine calculates the % before you get your voucher so regardless of whether you spend the money on goods or cash out the percentage is taken. The self scans will take as many coins as you feed them - I worked in Tesco cash office for years - the self scans in Tesco recycle the coins except for the 2 c and 20c ( that was back in my day anyways) so lots of coin is always welcome. It won’t let you over pay though so just use it a couple of times

The coinstar machines I have used in Tesco are % if you are just getting cash. Or full value if you use the voucher in the shop.

May Contain Small Parts

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Ok but the cashier will ask you to pay for your goods, what's the definition of a debt again

You haven't taken or consumed anything yet. It's still in their shop, you just happen to be holding it. The item still has exactly the same value to the shop that it always did.

If you were to leave the shop with the item or start eating their cookies then you would create a debt.

Alternatively, when order in a restaurant then you are creating a debt because once they start to prepare the food it's lost value to the restaurant.

So yeah. Bottom line is that if there is no debt then they can just refuse the transaction. If there is a debt then they can demand that it be paid in legal tender, rather than regular money.

Alpha_zero

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

For debt payments.

When the cashier runs the items you intend to buy through the till, or the self service machine you will be asked to pay for those items.

It is not fair to assume that you owe them payment therefore you have incurred a debt, of which the constitution states that coins are legal tender to cover said debt. I am not sure if it comes with the caveat of a 50 coin limit.

L1011

It's not in the constitution. You do not understand the legislation here at all.

dudara

The 50 coin limit is in the Economic and Monetary Act of 1998, not the constitution (as previously pointed out already by an earlier poster).

Alpha_zero

L1011 wrote: »

It's not in the constitution. You do not understand the legislation here at all.

You think store policy trumps the constitution

Alpha_zero

dudara wrote: »

The 50 coin limit is in the Economic and Monetary Act of 1998, not the constitution (as previously pointed out already by an earlier poster).

OK

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Alpha_zero wrote: »

When the cashier runs the items you intend to buy through the till, or the self service machine you will be asked to pay for those items.

It is not fair to assume that you owe them payment therefore you have incurred a debt, of which the constitution states that coins are legal tender to cover said debt. I am not sure if it comes with the caveat of a 50 coin limit.

You seem to not grasp the simple fact that there is no debt created in a cash sale in a shop. Your assumption of a debt is incorrect. It's also not in the constitution.

GreeBo

dudara wrote: »

The onus is on you to provide payment of your debt, within the 50 coin limit. In excess of 50 coins does not constitute legal tender

Simple way around that is to pay for each item individually....Im sure the cashier will then accept all the coins together.:cool:

CeilingFly

Alpha_zero wrote: »

When the cashier runs the items you intend to buy through the till, or the self service machine you will be asked to pay for those items.

It is not fair to assume that you owe them payment therefore you have incurred a debt, of which the constitution states that coins are legal tender to cover said debt. I am not sure if it comes with the caveat of a 50 coin limit.

You need to understand the legal meaning of debt. I assure you it is not created in a normal retail transaction.

But reasonableness comes into play in the retail sphere.

Legally a shop does not have to give you change if you give a €50 note for a €10. However a retailer who did that would not survive long, hence reasonableness and established practice come into play.

But strictly on a legal point, no change has to be given and a retailer can decide whether or not to accept any form of cash.

Ted_YNWA

Staplor wrote: »

Just take it easy, too many coins will jam the machine

Yep, I am guilty of doing this. I did go a bit overboard with the coins. Can't remember if it exceeded 50, but wouldn't have been too far off it.

Ursus Horribilis

I've used the self-service to get rid of loads of small coins. Never €30 in 5c pieces though. I refuse on principle to use those extortionate coin converting machines in the supermarket.

BuboBubo

You could do a few trips using a fistfull of coins for each transaction. If the transaction is €26 use €3 worth of change then pay balance by card for example. You'll get through those coins eventually.

Or else, bag them up and bring them to your local bank. The canteen in my workplace will change bagged coins (they count/check them because some dirtbag actually conned them before - how miserable can ye get!) Local shops might take a few bagged or even loose coins from you too.

Tip them out onto the table and get bagging. Or spread them out over a few transactions.

yesto24

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Sorry I don't have my copy of the Irish constitution to hand.

You should buy one, it's not that expensive.
You could easily pay for it with less than 50 coins.

Del2005

Alpha_zero wrote: »

When the cashier runs the items you intend to buy through the till, or the self service machine you will be asked to pay for those items.

That's invitation to treat. The shop is asking you for x and then you can pay x or offer y and see what they accept.

Alpha_zero wrote: »

It is not fair to assume that you owe them payment therefore you have incurred a debt, of which the constitution states that coins are legal tender to cover said debt. I am not sure if it comes with the caveat of a 50 coin limit.

You need to pay for the items but you don't owe them anything as they still own the items. If you put fuel into your car you'll then have a debt to pay but the 50 coin limit will apply.

CeilingFly

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I refuse on principle to use those extortionate coin converting machines in the supermarket.

I don't think it's extortionate


Banks charge 2.45% to lodge coins but it has to be counted and sorted into full bags.

Coinstar charge 9.9%, but you can dump everything in without sorting and counting.

Probably an unfair example, but I'm in retail and over a year we get an amount of 1c, 2c and 5c coins which we don't use.

So about once a year I lob it all into a Coinstar and cash it out. The net cost is 7.45%

I would suspect it would take 5/6 hours to sort and count the coin even with aid of a machine.

Last drop was about €300, net cost about €25. Worth every cent.