Kona vs Niro comparison

DrPhilG

Anybody going to take the plunge on one of these?

Looking set to be the first affordable 60kWh+ cars on our roads. Still no prices for either but the Kona UK prices are out and the expectation is that it will come in around €36-37k for the top spec.

The Kona looks a little more snug inside but it does have that driver HUD which is very cool. Range probably very similar, maybe a smidgen less on the Niro as it is bigger.

The Kia I would guess might be a little cheaper also.

Kona




Niro

unkel

We all know you want one

DrPhilG wrote: »

The Kona looks a little more snug inside but it does have that driver HUD which is very cool.

Kona is not suitable if you want to transport 5 people regularly or over long distances. For 4 people it is fine

I'll be in the showroom to book a test drive just for the craic, but I won't be buying one as we are a family of 5

HUD standard on all models? I do like HUD I must say. Last car I drove with HUD was a BMW M6 and it only showed the speed I was doing, but surely the system must have been wrong as the speed displayed seemed a touch high compared to the speed limit :pac:

cros13

The Niro is definitely the more practical of the two. Kona has less storage and carrying capacity than my i3.

The problem is availability with either of them given the production volumes. The Niro EV is likely to see the worst of that with rumored volumes 1/3 of the Kona EV.

DrPhilG

cros13 wrote: »

The Niro EV is likely to see the worst of that with rumored volumes 1/3 of the Kona EV.

Really? I hadn't heard that.

I'm leaning more towards the Niro to be honest. Partly because of the extra space (not that I'd need it often) but more so because of Kia offering a longer warranty and also because I suspect it will be a little cheaper.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

HUD standard on all models?

Not all, only the higher spec I believe.

FriendsEV

DrPhilG wrote: »

Really? I hadn't heard that.

I'm leaning more towards the Niro to be honest. Partly because of the extra space (not that I'd need it often) but more so because of Kia offering a longer warranty and also because I suspect it will be a little cheaper.

Will it be longer for you though?

Hyundai is 5 year unlimited, Kia is 150k km

I think they are both cool, prefer the Kia too, but they are a little bland for expensive cars

Would love something a bit sportier like a 5 door Nismo Leaf, Focus ST, Leon Cupra type styling, sports suspension

Leaf e-Plus with 215bhp should be nice to drive

unkel

FriendsEV wrote: »

Would love something a bit sportier like a 5 door Nismo Leaf, Focus ST, Leon Cupra type styling, sports suspension

Leaf e-Plus with 215bhp should be nice to drive

All FWD. My guess is you've never driven a real drivers car?

FriendsEV

unkel wrote: »

All FWD. My guess is you've never driven a real drivers car?

Like an old Porsche?

unkel

FriendsEV wrote: »

Like an old Porsche?

You've dug yourself a nice hole right there

DrPhilG

FriendsEV wrote: »

Will it be longer for you though?

Hyundai is 5 year unlimited, Kia is 150k km

I average about 23k km a year so it would still get to about 6 and a half years.

liamog

cros13 wrote: »

The problem is availability with either of them given the production volumes. The Niro EV is likely to see the worst of that with rumored volumes 1/3 of the Kona EV.

The last numbers I saw were from November '17, 18,600 Kona, and 21,000 Niro's.

DrPhilG

liamog wrote: »

The last numbers I saw were from November '17, 18,600 Kona, and 21,000 Niro's.

I prefer the sound of that!

There seems a lot less buzz about the Niro. Lower demand and higher availability is good for me.

grogi

DrPhilG wrote: »

Anybody going to take the plunge on one of these?

I've been in the PHEV Niro - and really liked it.

Unless Tesla starts delivering the SR Models 3, I'll almost certainly queue for the 60kWh Niro.

DrPhilG

grogi wrote: »

I've been in the PHEV Niro - and really liked it.

Unless Tesla starts delivering the SR Models 3, I'll almost certainly queue for the 60kWh Niro.

It's a fairly ugly big slab of a steering wheel, and the lack of alignment in the centre controls might make me twitch a bit.

But all that glorious range will make up for it.

DrPhilG

There does seem to be a distinct lack of interest in the Niro. I know the Kona is a few months ahead in terms of release but over on speakev.com there are 20 threads in the Kona forum and a grand total of 1 on the Niro.

Badge snobbery? Or does Hyundai's track record with the Ioniq draw people in?

FriendsEV

DrPhilG wrote: »

There does seem to be a distinct lack of interest in the Niro. I know the Kona is a few months ahead in terms of release but over on speakev.com there are 20 threads in the Kona forum and a grand total of 1 on the Niro.

Badge snobbery? Or does Hyundai's track record with the Ioniq draw people in?

Its practical, but ugly

The Kona is a cute little thing in comparison

I would still take a Niro though

fricatus

There's definitely a market for something bigger and more practical like the Niro, but God, that charge port location on the white one is really gammy looking! Could they not just have put it in the middle of the "grille" FFS?

DrPhilG

fricatus wrote: »

There's definitely a market for something bigger and more practical like the Niro, but God, that charge port location on the white one is really gammy looking! Could they not just have put it in the middle of the "grille" FFS?

It's the same on the Kona though! I agree though, having it to the side makes my OCD twitch a bit, lol.

I prefer the "grille" on the Niro. That print style on the Kona is very odd looking.

ted1

fricatus wrote: »

There's definitely a market for something bigger and more practical like the Niro, but God, that charge port location on the white one is really gammy looking! Could they not just have put it in the middle of the "grille" FFS?

It’s safer to reverse into spaces and many companies have a strict reverse in policy in their car parks. Chargers should be at the rear or both front and back.

DrPhilG

Yeah definitely better to have the charger on front or back, charger on the side is one of the few downsides of the Ioniq.

Dont be at yourself

What's the interior quality in terms of materials, fit & finish on a Kia compared to Hyundai? Was pleasantly surprised by the interior of the Ioniq -- would the Niro be of a similar standard?

Not too keen on either of them from the outside; Kona is much nicer but those big plastic wheel arches ruin it.

DrPhilG

Some early reviews have said the interior of the Kona isn't great, lots of hard plastic.

Agreed on the wheel arches, they're awful on the Kona.

There should be a glut of Kona reviews soon. Bjorn and a number of others have been test driving it over the last few days but there is a block on releasing the reviews until July 25th.

DrPhilG

Called in for a look at the petrol Kona a few weeks back and found it quite nice. Seemed OK for space. But then I watched a German video on YouTube of a walkaround on the EV and it seemed very snug in the back. Reviewer was 5'11 and when he got into the back he had barely any space in front of his knees.

Stopped the other day at a Kia dealership in Derry as they had the hybrid Niro outside. Snapped a few pictures before the salesman arrived to chat.









He was full of crap unfortunately. Claimed that the EV was not coming to the UK because there was no demand for electrics, and the hybrid I was looking at would "do everything I needed".

So I contacted a different Kia dealer, in Coleraine. The girl there confirmed that the Kia should hopefully arrive before the end of the year.

Shefwedfan

I have looked at both. Of course both in petrol version. The Kona I sat into was the baseline model and was very poor inside. In terms of space I was surprised and it was actually bigger than I had expected.

I was paying Kia one day and the Misses actually asked me to drop in. She loved the Niro, it was the PHEV. The interior was nice and she was impressed with the leg room in back. Before I knew it she was over asking the salesman about when the full electric would be available.

I brought her over to Stonic and it was an automatic no. So that doesn't bode well for Kona. We will see when the Kona comes out and we can take a test drive.

At the moment the Niro is out in front but it looks like I might have to go to Kia myself to buy the bloody thing. The salesperson who was supposed to get training in my local Kia first told me it wasn't coming due to lack of interest. I know Kia have confirmed on website(Thanks DrPhilG :-) ) but when I sent that to him he hasn't even bothered replying.

The issue here might not be the Niro, it might be the useless dealers dont want to sell it

Shefwedfan

DrPhilG wrote: »

Called in for a look at the petrol Kona a few weeks back and found it quite nice. Seemed OK for space. But then I watched a German video on YouTube of a walkaround on the EV and it seemed very snug in the back. Reviewer was 5'11 and when he got into the back he had barely any space in front of his knees.

Stopped the other day at a Kia dealership in Derry as they had the hybrid Niro outside. Snapped a few pictures before the salesman arrived to chat




He was full of crap unfortunately. Claimed that the EV was not coming to the UK because there was no demand for electrics, and the hybrid I was looking at would "do everything I needed".

So I contacted a different Kia dealer, in Coleraine. The girl there confirmed that the Kia should hopefully arrive before the end of the year.

THis is same crap I got. The first day I went into Kia I talked to the owner. When we asked about the electric version he seemed excited. Told me he had sent his sales guy on training etc etc and that he seen a big market for it. Maybe I should have clarified if the training was just hybrid

When I contacted the salesman the following week it was more or less the exact same story you got. No requirement in Ireland, no marketplace. Hard to sell full electric. Hybrid was better. Kia are not going to bring to Ireland, used the Soul as an example as well. :P

DrPhilG

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Kia are not going to bring to Ireland, used the Soul as an example as well. :P

Yeah the guy in Derry said that too. I pointed out that the lack of range and the fact that the Soul is ugly as sin were more of an impact on those sales.

Both Kia Ireland and Kia UK have confirmed on social media that the car is coming. Its just a matter of finding out who actually wants to sell it. You should ask on Facebook etc to see who in Ireland has a Soul and find out where they got it.

I was referred to Kia Coleraine by a guy up North who has a Soul EV. He says that they are the only Kia in Northern Ireland who can sell electrics, not sure if that's a licensing thing among dealers or something or just the fact that they are the only ones trained to service them afterwards.

The difference in attitude was huge. The lady there has sold a few Souls including one that was to be picked up last week. She took my details, went and contacted Kia UK and called me back. She said that the Niro was originally due to come out in January 19 but they were trying to bring it forward to have demos this year and orders taken for early 2019 deliveries.

I'm in Donegal so my local dealer is in Letterkenny. They sell Nissan and Kia and they do have electrics as they have a 40kwh Leaf in stock.

I have contacted them a few times lately though and they're not seeming overly interested. I'd have no problem buying one and importing it though. I work in Derry so going back up to Coleraine for servicing or any issues wouldn't be difficult.

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

You should ask on Facebook etc to see who in Ireland has a Soul

PS that sounds funny when I read it back... Lol

liamog

I suspect Hyundai dealers attitude changed when they saw the sales of the Ioniq. The Niro electric should have the same effect.

Water John

Declan Colley has a review of the Kia Niro PHEV. Says it's an interim product, which I agree with but then says EV is not the solution but goes for Toyotas Hydrogen Cell as the solution to emissions.

grogi

Water John wrote: »

Declan Colley has a review of the Kia Niro PHEV. Says it's an interim product, which I agree with but then says EV is not the solution but goes for Toyotas Hydrogen Cell as the solution to emissions.

Hydrogen has only one advantage - it is faster to refill at the moment. But it requires complex logistics, enormous investment in filling stations, it is explosive and stored under very high pressure. Fuel cell stack is heavy, and generation of H2 isn't free either...

Water John

Agree, just pointing out he seemed very taken with the Toyota line.

Shefwedfan

With the likes of BP investing in charging networks it spells the end for hydrogen.....

DrPhilG

So with the crystal balls out, what do you reckon the values will be for the Kona and the Niro in 3-5 years time?

Assuming that the top spec 64kWh in both will be around €40k or thereabouts.

FriendsEV

DrPhilG wrote: »

So with the crystal balls out, what do you reckon the values will be for the Kona and the Niro in 3-5 years time?

Assuming that the top spec 64kWh in both will be around €40k or thereabouts.

I was doing those sums too vs my ICE

Reckon after 5 years they should be worth about 15k

25k over 5 years, 100e a week

In my case I would save weekly over the year 35e on fuel, 10e on tax, 20e on maintenance

New car would cost me about 25e a week over 5 years

Water John

Maybe flip the figures. Above €20K at 4/5 years.

Shefwedfan

DrPhilG wrote: »

So with the crystal balls out, what do you reckon the values will be for the Kona and the Niro in 3-5 years time?

Assuming that the top spec 64kWh in both will be around €40k or thereabouts.

If, and I know it’s a big if, VW release the ID range and all of its brands then release their version you could see these brands have higher depreciation. I am confident VW will meet their targets

Would that stop me buying the Niro if I like it when released?? Probably not....the plan at present is to swap the eGolf in 2019....the Neo will not be out till 2020 and I really want to go back into a crossover for the back, the VW Crozz won’t be till 2021....so the Niro makes sense(unless
Of course I knock off the misses and use the life insurance money to buy Audi keep)

grogi

Water John wrote: »

Maybe flip the figures. Above €20K at 4/5 years.

It all goes down to availability of new EV five years from now.

Over next three years both, and Niro especially as it functionally appeals to wider crowd, will depreciate very slowly: 10%-15%. So after three years we'd have 60-70% of initial value.

Next two years will see a much more rapid depreciation, as the supply will explode at that stage. After five years it might be worth 40-50% of initial value then.

Water John

Think that demand will still transfer to the second hand market at that time. There still be a scarcity of 5 yr old EVs at that point. Many in the second hand market won't afford a new car.
Might be little in the diff between us, around €20K.

unkel

grogi wrote: »

It all goes down to availability of new EV five years from now.

This. And what a lot of people seem to not understand - all extras depreciate to almost zero as soon as you drive away from the forecourt. And it is crucial you get as good a deal as you can when you buy new. If you bought a base Nissan Leaf 24kWh in 2017 for €18k (good deal after hard negotiations), it would now be worth €14k in a private sale. If you spent €30k on a top of the range 30kWh model at the same time (lame or no negotiations), it would now be worth €17k

That's a depreciation of either 22% or 43% in just one year on pretty much the same car

I still reckon as does Water John that the demand for new and second hand EVs will be strong with supply still being limited for several years to come and everyone wanting to get onto the EV bandwagon. Remember new petrol and diesel cars will get significant price increases because of WLTP too and that is not even taking into account possible bans on diesel in cities, possible excise increases on petrol and diesel, etc.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

And it is crucial you get as good a deal as you can when you buy new.

You were fortunate though if I remember correctly in that you haggled a great deal on your Ioniq before everyone knew just how good they were.

I don't see many great offers going on the Kona or Niro simply because Hyundai know how well the Ioniq sold and know that a car with this kind of range will be in massive demand.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

You were fortunate though if I remember correctly in that you haggled a great deal on your Ioniq before everyone knew just how good they were.

I haggled the last possible EUR100 discount out of it by playing a tight game with all of the 30 Irish Hyundai dealers

But yeah, once the dealers realised several months later that there was demand for the car that they couldn't get supply for, the scrappage deal was gone. But there still were some people who got some money off who reported in the Ioniq thread.

DrPhilG wrote: »

I don't see many great offers going on the Kona or Niro simply because Hyundai know how well the Ioniq sold and know that a car with this kind of range will be in massive demand.

Aye. If I were a Hyundai dealer I would literally not give one cent off. Pay the full RRP plus the full whack of all the extras and the delivery costs. Because I can. We live in a free democratic part of the world that runs a capitalist system. It is the duty of every commercial entity to maximise profits. It is the only way we the people are this well off

DrPhilG

My only hope for any discount is that a friend is also looking to buy so we are doing similar, dangling 2 sales in one go for a number of different dealers to see if it entices any reductions.

Probably better going to the more regional dealers as they won't have had as many Ioniq enquiries in the showrooms.

I'm still torn though.

Hyundai:
*Has good EV history with the Ioniq
*More known name maybe meaning stronger second hand sales
*Has the hud
*Available sooner

Kia:
*Possibly a little cheaper
*Definitely bigger
*Longer warranty

FriendsEV

Water John wrote: »

Maybe flip the figures. Above €20K at 4/5 years.

Way way too optimistic

Do Teslas even hold 50% value after 5 years?

Sure a BMW i3 looses nearly 50% in a year lol 😂

Whats a 5 year old Leaf worth, 10k?

Ioniq might be depreciation free now, but when Evs like 64kWh Kona are available for 35k, no one is going to want a 28kWh Ioniq for 28k

It becomes a sub 25k car then new

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

My only hope for any discount is that a friend is also looking to buy so we are doing similar, dangling 2 sales in one go for a number of different dealers to see if it entices any reductions.

What chance do you think you have here of getting a discount, buy one, get one with 0.1% discount? It's not really like getting your 12 year old local lad to give you and your neighbour a discount for cutting the grass on both your back-to-back lawns now, is it?

Hyundai and Kia are number 1 and number 3 respectively in most reliable brands, see the 2018 JD Power UK reliability survey. I'd say you have no worries there. Only thing left to do for you Phil is to wait (I know, not easy when you are impatient - I'm not good at that myself) until the cars are available and test drive them and see how much they would cost to change from your Leaf bottom line

DrPhilG

Balls to waiting, lol.

I've done the figures and have the finance available. It will come down to a test drive and which is cheaper.

Plus honestly, there isn't near as high a demand on EVs in the wilds of Donegal etc. Might get a bit more joy on haggling around here than in Dublin or Cork!

unkel

FriendsEV wrote: »

Way way too optimistic

Do Teslas even hold 50% value after 5 years?

No. Not even the cheapest models with zero extras. And Teslas depreciate less than any other mainstream cars. Petrol, diesel or EV

Cheapest 2013 Model S 85 is about £30k in a private sale. Cheapest new 2018 Model S 70 is £70k

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

Balls to waiting, lol.

I've done the figures and have the finance available. It will come down to a test drive and which is cheaper.

Plus honestly, there isn't near as high a demand on EVs in the wilds of Donegal etc. Might get a bit more joy on haggling around here than in Dublin or Cork!

Wishful thinking there man, but keep us posted

My take is that if you have the finance ready and you are ready for an upgrade to a higher range EV then I would shake hands immediately on any decent deal on the Kona EV 64kWh as soon as you can. Even if the discount is sweet fukc all. All the new Norwegian Kona EV buyers did just that. 10 times as many people wanted that car and were ready to buy one. Only 2500 Kona EV available for Norway. We will only get a fraction of that I'd say

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

My take is that if you have the finance ready and you are ready for an upgrade to a higher range EV then I would shake hands immediately on any decent deal on the Kona EV 64kWh as soon as you can.

Yeah I'm just a tight arse at heart and the thought of coughing up close to €40k on a car is kinda nuts which is why I wish the Niro was at least priced before I buy the Kona.

unkel

Agreed. €40k is a lot of money for a budget car. I wouldn't pay that. I reckon they should come in more around the €35k - both the Kona and the Niro 64kWh

Which is not a huge premium over cars like Ioniq and L40 that are the guts of €30k and have only half the range

I'm not so sure it's that quick to full up with Hydrogen, I remember Toyota's Latest car took a long time to fill up because there were no pumps of such high pressure to fill it in decent time.

Hydrogen can have good use in HGVs, once made with clean sources of fuel. France should be able to makes tonnes of it with spare Nuclear power , that's just one example, we could make it with excess wind, but probably wouldn't have enough, yes it's better and much more efficient to charge batteries but the amount of battery required for HGV use is mind boggling, so smaller battery + Fuel cell like the latest Mercedes Bus makes good sense.

For cars and Vans BEV is the way to go at least for the foreseeable future.

DrPhilG

Well unfortunately the local Kia didn't have a Niro of any variety available yesterday for me to look around.

But Hyundai did have a few Konas. I had a look around a premium version and took a petrol one out for a quick spin.

Space wise it's a lot better than I thought. The German guy who posted a video on YouTube looking around the electric made it look very snug.

I've been told that there are a few cm less room in the EV version but I found it very spacious compared to the German vid. He must have had the driving seat further back than I thought.

I sat in my normal driving position and then went and sat in the back. Admittedly I do sit quite far forward when driving but I had easily 15+cm in front of my knees in the back seat picture.