So Michael D IS running again!

Hotblack Desiato

eastwest wrote: »

My mistake, I was thinking of the last European elections and the TV debate for that. There were a couple of candidates there who didn't get a hundred votes between them.

Party|Candidate|% 1st Pref|Count 1
Direct Democracy|Ben Gilroy|1.2|7,683
Independent|Mark Fitzsimons|0.4|2,424
Independent|T. J. Fay|0.3|2,002
Fis Nua|Cordelia Nic Fhearraigh|0.3|1,829


Given the quota was 129,000 these guys are down in the statistical noise

You'd have to wonder why they bothered, or did they actually campaign at all.

dulpit

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Party|Candidate|% 1st Pref|Count 1
Direct Democracy|Ben Gilroy|1.2|7,683
Independent|Mark Fitzsimons|0.4|2,424
Independent|T. J. Fay|0.3|2,002
FNua|Cordelia NFhearraigh|0.3|1,829


Given the quota was 129,000 these guys are down in the statistical noise

You'd have to wonder why they bothered, or did they actually campaign at all.

Ah Ben Gilroy... Hangs out with fellas like this:

realdanbreen

AGC wrote: »

Have you listened to many of his speeches or remarks where he has gone beyond his ‘remit’ and made comments on various matters?

Don’t think you could ever question the president on equality issues.

I've listened to loads of them down the years even before he was president and (and of course he's not alone among politicians in this) I never heard him being forceful enough to lay blame squarely where it should be laid. That's why when he backtracked/lied/ call it what you like about his promise to run for one term only I just noted that this guy who puts himself out there as a man of the people is just another shyster.

AGC

realdanbreen wrote: »

I've listened to loads of them down the years even before he was president and (and of course he's not alone among politicians in this) I never heard him being forceful enough to lay blame squarely where it should be laid. That's why when he backtracked/lied/ call it what you like about his promise to run for one term only I just noted that this guy who puts himself out there as a man of the people is just another shyster.

Just to go back on 1 point you made earlier, him saying he was running for 1 term would not have changed the election result in 2011, you also just have to listen to the majority of people who are now happy that he has changed his mind and is running again.

IMO he has done an excellent job and him changing his mind is not an issue for me and their now being an election will allow the people to decide and I’m sure he will be re-elected.

On your above comment you only have to read or listen to remarks on women’s rights to see he is very outspoken and has firmly laid the blame at the states door, on housing he has also been outspoken and has certainly laid the blame at the door of various groups.

Zubeneschamali

AGC wrote: »

I’m sure he will be re-elected.

Last time Higgins (Labour), Gallagher (Not FF Honestly) and McGuinness (SF) were the only ones to better 12.5% and get their expenses back.



This time FF, FG and Labour are all backing Higgins, SF have said they'll run someone - anyone else might as well set fire to the money.

dulpit

What's the deposit for a presidential election?

eagle eye

realdanbreen wrote:

I just noted that this guy who puts himself out there as a man of the people is just another shyster.

Michael d was touted as a man of the people by many for all the great work he did to help the people of countries under oppressive leadership.
He criticed Reagan's foreign policy when many in this country were raving about how great the man was.
He is a great man and will be remembered as one. He is loved by the people of a lot of nations because of all his great work. This work didn't help him get elected as a TD, he wasn't going around saying 'I did this', he was just passionate about the plight of people in bad situations.

James Brown

eagle eye wrote: »

Michael d was touted as a man of the people by many for all the great work he did to help the people of countries under oppressive leadership.
He criticed Reagan's foreign policy when many in this country were raving about how great the man was.
He is a great man and will be remembered as one. He is loved by the people of a lot of nations because of all his great work. This work didn't help him get elected as a TD, he wasn't going around saying 'I did this', he was just passionate about the plight of people in bad situations.

Spot on. He ripped into a tea party lad many years ago. The recording was doing the rounds.

Hotblack Desiato

dulpit wrote: »

Ah Ben Gilroy... Hangs out with fellas like this:

Excuse me! That's Ben of the family Gilroy™ to you!

realdanbreen

AGC wrote: »

Just to go back on 1 point you made earlier, him saying he was running for 1 term would not have changed the election result in 2011,

I never said it would, although some voted for him because he said he was staying for one term only and not trying to keep his snout in the trough for 14 years.

Zubeneschamali

dulpit wrote: »

What's the deposit for a presidential election?

Deposits are not really a thing in Ireland anymore. No-one nominated by a party has to pay one, and you just need 30 signatures from your constituency to avoid paying one, and it's only €500 in a GE anyhow.

The big deal in the Presidential election is your Campaign Expenses. All those Legally Blonde posters of Mary Davis? She spent more than €400,000 on that campaign, came last, and didn't get a cent back. Gay Mitchell spent (and lost) even more, over €500,000, but he had FG backing.

Anyone running against Higgins will not get anything like that sort of backing because they have a) no large party behind them and b) no chance.

Hotblack Desiato

Apart from the SF candidate (backing, I mean. Still no chance)

AGC

realdanbreen wrote: »

I never said it would, although some voted for him because he said he was staying for one term only and not trying to keep his snout in the trough for 14 years.

So if he kept his ‘snout’ shut he wouldn’t have got your vote?

He was by far and away the best candidate and he is still by far and away the best candidate.

Loafing Oaf

Any sign of any of the bookies offering odds on this election. Usually the solidest indication of where the land lies in any political contest...

eagle eye

Loafing Oaf wrote:

Any sign of any of the bookies offering odds on this election. Usually the solidest indication of where the land lies in any political contest...

They got Brexit wrong and the last US presidential election.

AGC

eagle eye wrote: »

They got Brexit wrong and the last US presidential election.

At present it’s a non contest. You’ll probably get better odds on Bertie then any on the current challengers

Loafing Oaf

AGC wrote: »

At present it’s a non contest. You’ll probably get better odds on Bertie then any on the current challengers

So they're not opening a book because it's a foregone conclusion? But you can still get odds on Dublin to win the Leinster Championship every year...

alaimacerc

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Deposits are not really a thing in Ireland anymore. No-one nominated by a party has to pay one, and you just need 30 signatures from your constituency to avoid paying one, and it's only €500 in a GE anyhow.

The big deal in the Presidential election is your Campaign Expenses.

The system for Dáil elections is broadly similar, though: there's an expenses cap, and a lower reimbursement level, subject to getting the quarter-quota threshold.

Obviously the big difference is that the presidential election is one vote on a national scale, so "saving your expenses" is both a larger total amount, and happens on an all-or-nothing basis.

James Brown

realdanbreen wrote: »

I never said it would, although some voted for him because he said he was staying for one term only and not trying to keep his snout in the trough for 14 years.

How many? Personally whether or not somebody runs again in the election after the current would have no bearing.
What was/is the problem running again anyway, don't vote for him.

realdanbreen

AGC wrote: »

So if he kept his ‘snout’ shut he wouldn’t have got your vote?

He was by far and away the best candidate and he is still by far and away the best candidate.

Why do you keep making a point about him being a good candidate? That has nothing to do with the topic which is about him lying/ being economical with the truth or what ever you want to call it.

James Brown

realdanbreen wrote: »

Why do you keep making a point about him being a good candidate? That has nothing to do with the topic which is about him lying/ being economical with the truth or what ever you want to call it.

Changing his mind after a number of years in the job?

blanch152

I am completely disappointed with Higgins running again. The country has changed dramatically over the last seven years, so we should be thinking about changing the person who symbolises the country. Higgins is now a man of the past.

Unfortunately, to date the alternatives are not so good. There is the anti-vaxxer from Sinn Fein who would be worse than Higgins a symbol, then there is Gavin Duffy who is a businessman turned TV star, not exactly inspiring, the rest I don't know.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

I am completely disappointed with Higgins running again. The country has changed dramatically over the last seven years, so we should be thinking about changing the person who symbolises the country. Higgins is now a man of the past.

Unfortunately, to date the alternatives are not so good. There is the anti-vaxxer from Sinn Fein who would be worse than Higgins a symbol, then there is Gavin Duffy who is a businessman turned TV star, not exactly inspiring, the rest I don't know.

You've convinced me. Higgins it is.

AGC

realdanbreen wrote: »

Why do you keep making a point about him being a good candidate? That has nothing to do with the topic which is about him lying/ being economical with the truth or what ever you want to call it.

If You take such exception with a politician changing his mind on a matter like this I would hate to see your reaction on something important.

He said he was doing 1 term and at the time might have genuinely felt that was what he would do, I am sure he has seen the support he received in 2011 and around the country over the last 7 years to see that people like you are in the minority and that he still has te support of enough people.

oscarBravo

blanch152 wrote: »

I am completely disappointed with Higgins running again. The country has changed dramatically over the last seven years, so we should be thinking about changing the person who symbolises the country. Higgins is now a man of the past.

I get why someone would want a different president, whether or not I agree with their reasons.

What I don't get is why they would think that wanting a different president is in any way a reason why the incumbent shouldn't run for re-election.

realdanbreen

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Changing his mind after a number of years in the job?

Shortly after Gallagher screwed up and he knew he had it in the bag he changed tack and said in his inimiitable mother of sorrows tone that he could always of course 'be influenced by the will of the people' . This guy is the consummate politician, he played people for a sap and is back doing it again and still some are falling for it. I guess a few Gra Mo chrois and talking in riddles does it for some.

dulpit

realdanbreen wrote: »

Shortly after Gallagher screwed up and he knew he had it in the bag he changed tack and said in his inimiitable mother of sorrows tone that he could always of course 'be influenced by the will of the people' . This guy is the consummate politician , he played people for a sap and is back doing it again and still some are falling for it. I guess a few Gra Mo chrois and talking in riddles does it for some.

I hate it when politicians run for jobs as politicians. That's the worst. :rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato

You know Dan if you're not happy about it you can just, you know, not vote for him ?

It sounds like you're suggesting something daft like he shouldn't be allowed to run.

realdanbreen

dulpit wrote: »

I hate it when politicians run for jobs as politicians. That's the worst. :rolleyes:

No the worst is when some actually believe what he says!

realdanbreen

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It sounds like you're suggesting something daft like he shouldn't be allowed to run.

It may sound like that to you but probably not to anybody else.

blackwhite

eagle eye wrote: »

Michael d was touted as a man of the people by many for all the great work he did to help the people of countries under oppressive leadership.
He criticed Reagan's foreign policy when many in this country were raving about how great the man was.
He is a great man and will be remembered as one. He is loved by the people of a lot of nations because of all his great work. This work didn't help him get elected as a TD, he wasn't going around saying 'I did this', he was just passionate about the plight of people in bad situations.

Michael D has always been incredibly selective about the "oppressive" regimes that he will criticise, and the ones that he will eulogise.

He gets a massive free pass from the Irish media on some of the dodgy characters that he's lent his support to over the years.

That said, I've no particular issue with him running again - that's his right as the incumbent, and he also has the right to change his mind from his previous intention not to run.

As it stands he appears to be the best of a bad bunch, so can't see how he won't be re-elected.

Hotblack Desiato

realdanbreen wrote: »

It may sound like that to you but probably not to anybody else.

You made the one point you have in your OP and since then just repeat repeat repeat.

blackwhite wrote: »

He gets a massive free pass from the Irish media on some of the dodgy characters that he's lent his support to over the years.

But they all reported on what he said on the deaths of Chavez and Castro. It seems that the Irish public mostly don't care. If they do, it'll come out in the campaign.

That said, I've no particular issue with him running again - that's his right as the incumbent, and he also has the right to change his mind from his previous intention not to run.

Exactly which makes this thread pointless really

James Brown

realdanbreen wrote: »

Shortly after Gallagher screwed up and he knew he had it in the bag he changed tack and said in his inimiitable mother of sorrows tone that he could always of course 'be influenced by the will of the people' . This guy is the consummate politician, he played people for a sap and is back doing it again and still some are falling for it. I guess a few Gra Mo chrois and talking in riddles does it for some.

He's been an excellent President. The last thing we need is another social media/snapchat style over content representative. Putting up with chancers in government is par for the course but a President has the opportunity to distance him or herself from the slight of hand quality we'd get from a Gallagher or Duffy.
You don't like him and that's grand. He changed his mind, that's it, whatever the reasoning or insinuation. Get over it. Don't vote for him. He did absolutely nothing other than change his mind. I'm glad he did. I'd hate if we got stuck with a jack ass.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

He's been an excellent President. The last thing we need is another social media/snapchat style over content representative. Putting up with chancers in government is par for the course but a President has the opportunity to distance him or herself from the slight of hand quality we'd get from a Gallagher or Duffy.
You don't like him and that's grand. He changed his mind, that's it, whatever the reasoning or insinuation. Get over it. Don't vote for him. He did absolutely nothing other than change his mind. I'm glad he did. I'd hate if we got stuck with a jack ass.

Can you link to any substantive change in Irish society or in world views that Michael D. Higgins as President has been responsible for?

Your second point that he did absolutely nothing other than change his mind may be more true than you realise.

realdanbreen

blackwhite wrote: »

Michael D has always been incredibly selective about the "oppressive" regimes that he will criticise, and the ones that he will eulogise.

He gets a massive free pass from the Irish media on some of the dodgy characters that he's lent his support to over the years.

Hear Hear!

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Can you link to any substantive change in Irish society or in world views that Michael D. Higgins as President has been responsible for?

Your second point that he did absolutely nothing other than change his mind may be more true than you realise.

As President, no. Is that what the president does? So what has Daniel O'Donnell done to fix the health service like? Not what he does?
I'm referring to an excellent ambassador for the nation as oppose to the riff raff and self publicists we could have or may end up with. You yourself don't hold any of the current contenders in high esteem.

Jim2007

blanch152 wrote: »

I am completely disappointed with Higgins running again. The country has changed dramatically over the last seven years, so we should be thinking about changing the person who symbolises the country. Higgins is now a man of the past.

All fluff! There is only one job that the President needs to be good at and that is defending the constitution. The last thing we need in that position is someone with an agenda, because this is not an American presidency and having an agenda could very quickly lead to a constitutional crisis! If you have an agenda then the Dail is were you belong not the presidency.

RobertKK

He is on working holidays a lot of the time.
Went to the funeral of mass killer Fidel Castro and talked of his deep sadness at his death.
A most over rated president, and keep the media onside by inviting them over for tea so they go easy on him.
Probably the biggest chancer in the Aras in a long time, lied about one term to get in, goes around espousing anti-capitalist views while living the life of a champagne socialist.

batgoat

RobertKK wrote: »

He is on working holidays a lot of the time.
Went to the funeral of mass killer Fidel Castro and talked of his deep sadness at his death.
A most over rated president, and keep the media onside by inviting them over for tea so they go easy on him.
Probably the biggest chancer in the Aras in a long time, lied about one term to get in, goes around espousing anti-capitalist views while living the life of a champagne socialist.

People change their mind Robert, he reasonably assumed he wouldn't be as fit for the job as he actually turned out to be. "Anti Capitalist views", are you trying to bring back McCarthyism? You live in a socialist state, many of his speeches have focused on issues of housing and poverty. Outrageous! I would say in general that our last 3 presidents have been superb and have brought their own slant to the presidency that has made the role far more relevant.

AGC

RobertKK wrote: »

He is on working holidays a lot of the time.
Went to the funeral of mass killer Fidel Castro and talked of his deep sadness at his death.
A most over rated president, and keep the media onside by inviting them over for tea so they go easy on him.
Probably the biggest chancer in the Aras in a long time, lied about one term to get in, goes around espousing anti-capitalist views while living the life of a champagne socialist.

Complete rubbish, if you’re going to try have a go at least come with facts.

Dr Brown

Higgins is taking the Irish tax payer for a ride.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ras-silence-on-claims-higgins-stayed-in-3000anight-hotel-37198861.html

RobertKK

AGC wrote: »

Complete rubbish, if you’re going to try have a go at least come with facts.

Complaining about facts but gave a reply with no substance.

AGC

RobertKK wrote: »

Complaining about facts but gave a reply with no substance.

He did not go to Castro’s funeral.

jm08

RobertKK wrote: »

He is on working holidays a lot of the time.
Went to the funeral of mass killer Fidel Castro and talked of his deep sadness at his death.
A most over rated president, and keep the media onside by inviting them over for tea so they go easy on him.
Probably the biggest chancer in the Aras in a long time, lied about one term to get in, goes around espousing anti-capitalist views while living the life of a champagne socialist.

Michael D. didn't go to Castro's funeral. He did however make a State visit to Cuba after his death. Castro is as much of a mass killer as the previous Baptista regime, aided by the US war machine who were just as responsible.

One thing Michael D. does very effectively - and that is get right up the nose of the Israelis for being very articulate about their treatment of the Palestinians.

Jim2007

Dr Brown wrote: »

Higgins is taking the Irish tax payer for a ride.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ras-silence-on-claims-higgins-stayed-in-3000anight-hotel-37198861.html

BS, Geneva is one one the most expensive cities in the world. A clown seeking publicity and a journalist seek ad clicks. Not news.

jm08

Dr Brown wrote: »

Higgins is taking the Irish tax payer for a ride.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ras-silence-on-claims-higgins-stayed-in-3000anight-hotel-37198861.html

Bearing in mind he was the keynote speaker at the conference, I'd imagine the organisers would have arranged his accommodation and picked up the tab.

http://www.president.ie/en/diary/details/president-delivers-keynote-address-at-ilo-world-of-work-summit-geneva

AGC

jm08 wrote: »

Bearing in mind he was the keynote speaker at the conference, I'd imagine the organisers would have arranged his accommodation and picked up the tab.

http://www.president.ie/en/diary/details/president-delivers-keynote-address-at-ilo-world-of-work-summit-geneva

As would be common place with most visiting heads of state to any country

Jim2007

jm08 wrote: »

Bearing in mind he was the keynote speaker at the conference, I'd imagine the organisers would have arranged his accommodation and picked up the tab.

http://www.president.ie/en/diary/details/president-delivers-keynote-address-at-ilo-world-of-work-summit-geneva

Would you now? Well you were wrong. So how much more digging do you want to do???

Jim2007

AGC wrote: »

As would be common place with most visiting heads of state to any country

He was not on a state visit to Switzerland. And in such situations the visiting head of state is the responsibility of the embassy and as already pointed out standard protocol was followed. Any any given day in Switzerland we probably have between 10 and 20 heads of states in the country.

More BS digging for no good reason other than trying to find cause for complaint.

Dr Brown

Jim2007 wrote: »

BS, Geneva is one one the most expensive cities in the world. A clown seeking publicity and a journalist seek ad clicks. Not news.

He could only find a hotel room for 3k ? I don't buy it.

If he could only find a room for 500 Euro per night then fair enough, but 3k is just taking the piss.

Higgins is the very definition of a champagne socialist/limousine liberal.