Cost of adding someone onto Council rent.

Littlehorny

Just looking for a bit of help here for my Mother in Law. She is a pensioner and is a long term renter off the Corporation so she pays approx 19 euros a week rent.
Her son is after splitting from his wife and needs to get himself sorted with a permanent place to live. He wants to move in with his Mother and put himself down with the Council.
She is very nervous about this, being a bit irrational to be honest, but I just want to find out if he is earning about 700 euro gross a week how much rent would he be expected to pay on this type of earning?
Would he go down on the councils books as the "Principle Earner" even though his Mother is in this house 40 years.
Does the fact he is still paying a mortgage and giving his ex money weekly come into his assessment?
thanks for any help.

Pelvis

AFAIK the rent is a % of the total income, approx 15% or thereabouts. His other outgoings are irrelevant.

Not sure why your MIL is nervous, just tell the council the son has moved in and declare the income. No biggy. When he moves out tell them this and her rent reverts back to what it was.

Gatling

In a lot of cases now council's will make the new Person sign an agreement saying they have no legal Claim to the property if anything happens to the actual tenant

Littlehorny

Pelvis wrote: »

AFAIK the rent is a % of the total income, approx 15% or thereabouts. His other outgoings are irrelevant.

Not sure why your MIL is nervous, just tell the council the son has moved in and declare the income. No biggy. When he moves out tell them this and her rent reverts back to what it was.

Thanks for the reply, we are not sure why she is so nervous either. Maybe she is afraid she would be left paying the rent as she is a pensioner. Will let them know anyway, thanks again.

Mrs OBumble

Mother is under no obligation to share her house with an adult child.

If she doesn't want him for whatever reason, she has a right to say no.

She may well be using the council rent issue as a proxy for other concerns.

Tell him to look for a place in a house share.

ted1

Littlehorny wrote: »

Pelvis wrote: »

AFAIK the rent is a % of the total income, approx 15% or thereabouts. His other outgoings are irrelevant.

Not sure why your MIL is nervous, just tell the council the son has moved in and declare the income. No biggy. When he moves out tell them this and her rent reverts back to what it was.

Thanks for the reply, we are not sure why she is so nervous either. Maybe she is afraid she would be left paying the rent as she is a pensioner. Will let them know anyway, thanks again.

She’s probably nervous because she doesn’t want her adult son living with her. She’s done her time raising her kids

Littlehorny

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Mother is under no obligation to share her house with an adult child.

If she doesn't want him for whatever reason, she has a right to say no.

She may well be using the council rent issue as a proxy for other concerns.

Tell him to look for a place in a house share.

She is glad to have her son in the house, glad of the company and she is only nervous from a money point of view.
I am not going to discuss the personal issues of his or hers situation with strangers. I only asked the question what kind of rent increase would be involved.
Please lets just stick to the facts.

MouseTail

She could also be worried about how it could affect her social welfare payments, living alone allowance etc. She should speak to Citizen's Information before agreeing to anything.

Littlehorny

^^^Thank you, that's what me and my wife (his sister, her daughter) told them to do.
Just hoped someone on here would know, so I could help them out.

Ultimate Seduction

She will definitely lose the living alone allowance. Whatever price they put the rent, you need to make sure to pay her the living alone allowance she will be losing out on, and make sure she still only pays 19 euro in rent. Half the esb bill, TV licence ect.

myshirt

He's earning a decent wage. If I was this lady I wouldn't do it for the hassle and the risk. If I was the son I'd look myself in the mirror. If I was a neighbour I'd be concerned about the vulnerability of the elderly. If I was on the housing list in the area or assisting someone on the housing list, you'd be as sure as f*ck this man would not be inheriting the tenancy, I'd paste the council to the wall on it.

Anyway, how old is this man ffs? She has done her part, she's raised the man, he needs to paddle his own canoe. A good swift swing of a size 11 in the arse is what he needs, not some advice on differential rent schemes.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Mother is under no obligation to share her house with an adult child.

If she doesn't want him for whatever reason, she has a right to say no.

She may well be using the council rent issue as a proxy for other concerns.

Tell him to look for a place in a house share.

Luckily most mothers don't have terrible outlooks like this and are very gland to have their children live with them.

myshirt wrote: »

He's earning a decent wage. If I was this lady I wouldn't do it for the hassle and the risk. If I was the son I'd look myself in the mirror. If I was a neighbour I'd be concerned about the vulnerability of the elderly. If I was on the housing list in the area or assisting someone on the housing list, you'd be as sure as f*ck this man would not be inheriting the tenancy, I'd paste the council to the wall on it.

Anyway, how old is this man ffs? She has done her part, she's raised the man, he needs to paddle his own canoe. A good swift swing of a size 11 in the arse is what he needs, not some advice on differential rent schemes.

Imagine being treated like dirt by your parents like this, I couldn't imagine having parents like that (considering how completely opposite my parents are). You would have to be rotten to the core to do that to one of your children.

myshirt

Amari Creamy Wheelbarrow wrote: »

Luckily most mothers don't have terrible outlooks like this and are very gland to have their children live with them.

Imagine being treated like dirt by your parents like this, I couldn't imagine having parents like that.

She does have a point though. We are the only species to raise our children, let them go, but welcome them back in?

If anything you hope to raise your children to be able to cope with life's challenges, not come running back to Mammy at each opportunity, especially when she is vulnerable enough that the state have had to provide her housing. If anything, he is letting the mother down here and saying she done a bad job. That he wilts immediately. Either that, or he doesn't give a flying f about anyone but himself; has an eye on saving money on the back of an elderly woman and a couple of taxpayers; rather than put his hand into his own arse pocket.

What good is it going to do this man if he's fully grown and running back to Mammy? The best thing she can do is tell him to f off. It'll be the best for him.

Anyway, probably for another thread.

LirW

Jesus some of the comments here. That man's marriage broke down, he's more than likely not too keen on going back but probably had little other choice. He's still paying mortgage for a house he's not living in and pays maintenance plus the chances are that he's going through a messy divorce.
The carpet was pulled under his feet, you're not going to be back up within a day but I'd say someone who's owned a house and has a well enough paying job has more to worry about at the moment than getting a council tenancy once the mother passed or leeching from the state.

OP, I understand why she is nervous. They should both together go to the local welface office and explain the situation and ask for the implications the move would have and go from there.

Mrs OBumble

LirW wrote: »

The carpet was pulled under his feet, .... They should both together go to the local welface office and explain the situation and ask for the implications the move would have and go from there.

We have no information about whether the carpet was pulled from under his fee, or whether something else happened. Most marriage counselling starts from the position that both people are responsible for a relationship breakdown, and that there's never really anyone who is unaware that it's coming.


The should not go to the welfare office. It's not a welfare issue (beyond her living alone allowance, which is trivial in the scale of things.) It's a differential rent issue, and the place to go for advice is the housing office at the council.

Amari Creamy Wheelbarrow wrote: »

Luckily most mothers don't have terrible outlooks like this and are very gland to have their children live with them.

We have no information about why the man's marriage broke down. He could be a lovely man. He could be many other things, which would rightly make his elderly mother nervous about living with him. (One of my friends had her psychotic adult son hold a carving knife at her throat. His psychiatrist has said he should never live with her again.)



OP, you say that the increased rent is the only concern. In that case, ask the council for permission for him to move in (it's not automatic that they will allow it - they they need to check if he has arrears or ABS history from any other council property, and ask them to assess the rent. He should organise a standing order from his bank account to the mothers for at least the rental difference. Also, make him promise that when he moves out again, he will provide proof of his new address to the council.

The latter point is where some people get caught. The relative moves out, but will not provide proof, so the council keep charging rent as though they are still living there. The lease-holder can be left with a nasty bill that they cannot afford to pay - and situations like this may well be where the concern is coming from.

LirW

If the mother is getting welfare payments the son moving in could very well have an effect on it, she needs to clarify this.

OP said there was a marriage breakdown and unfortunately in many cases here the man needs to move out of the family home until there's certainty what is going to happen with it in the future, so I assumed this is the case here because it's so common.

Electric Sheep

Amari Creamy Wheelbarrow wrote: »

Imagine being treated like dirt by your parents like this, I couldn't imagine having parents like that (considering how completely opposite my parents are). You would have to be rotten to the core to do that to one of your children.

Fortunately most people don't view expecting an adult man to act like an adult man as treating him dirt. Otherwise Ireland would be overrun with even more man babies who run to their Mammy every time life does not go their way.

DoozerT6

Jesus Christ, some of the comments here boil my blood.

His marriage broke down (THE REASONS ARE IRRELEVANT). He may not be in a financial position to move into a houseshare immediately with all the associated costs, and he is LUCKY to have the option to move back in with his mam while he gets back on his feet. I'm sure as a grown man with (possibly) a family of his own, he doesn't relish the thought, but is grateful for a roof over his head. Would you all be happier if he declared himself homeless, or couchsurfed with friends until he wore out his welcome, or lived in a hotel room for the next year at the tax payers expense or something? At least now he has a home to bring his kids to (if he has any), and bonus!!! they get to see Granny at the same time.

His mother is right to be concerned about how this affects her rent from a legal perspective. It appears everything re. council and rent is going to be done fairly and above board by all parties, so as suggested above, contact Citizens Information to clarify the situation.

Honest to god, some people here.....

JustAThought

She should run far away from it. Here we are with the self entitled brigade assuming and demanding that she allow her grown 40 year old adult child live with her despite the fact she is flagging concerns and saying it is an issue. When will this pensioner be allowed to live free of her children - he is a grown man. She is entitled to her own life of freedom, independence and peace without having an adult force himself into her home and life and privacy. He most probably is setting himself up for a free house / council flat for life by forcing himself in this way and will not move til he gets one or til she dies and he then tries to inherit the lease. He is earning well and enough to rent a room somewhere or do a houseshare - but I bet he thinks its too much of a burden to expect to share with other adults his own age or pay his way and wants to leech off his mother and the taxpayer for his free ride age 40 -death.

The mother will lose her fuel allowance, her free phone line and free TV licence not to mention a few other things that rely on being one income and living alone - he is a selfish * to force himself on her and should grow a pair and pay his way and fend for himself . She is right to be concerned . Willl he be expecting underpants iorning and to watch the footy too as well as free cleaning and meals cooked and served up by his pensioner mother.

Pelvis

For the love of fucking christ, the OP has stated that the woman is HAPPY TO HAVE HER SON MOVE IN.

This site really has gone to shite, it's full of complete knobs.

Littlehorny

LirW wrote: »

Jesus some of the comments here. That man's marriage broke down, he's more than likely not too keen on going back but probably had little other choice. He's still paying mortgage for a house he's not living in and pays maintenance plus the chances are that he's going through a messy divorce.
The carpet was pulled under his feet, you're not going to be back up within a day but I'd say someone who's owned a house and has a well enough paying job has more to worry about at the moment than getting a council tenancy once the mother passed or leeching from the state.

OP, I understand why she is nervous. They should both together go to the local welface office and explain the situation and ask for the implications the move would have and go from there.

Thank you for your post LirW, you have hit the nail on the head. I didn't want to get into personal stuff in my inquiry but lets clear up the assumptions people have made here.
He would rather have his own place at his age. He has 3 kids, one is still youngish (8) so he can't be bringing kids to a house share. He has moved back to Dublin from a negative equity place in Cavan, he is a decent bloke who is paying the mortgage in Cavan and giving his ex money for the kids i.e he is trying to do the right thing by her. I hate getting personal but she is a nightmare and I don't blame him one bit for reaching the end of his thether.
I have offered him the couch in my own home but his Mother has a house in Dublin and he works there, this job he has is only a year old, so its not like he has plenty of savings etc.
With the sky high rents in Dublin, he couldn't afford a place on his own. He is also trying to do the right thing with the Council by declaring he is living there, maybe he should just move in and say nothing? Because some people on here have made me sorry I asked my original questions.

Electric Sheep

Surely paying child support is doing right by his children not doing right by his ex?

Pelvis

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Surely paying child support is doing right by his children not doing right by his ex?

And paying the mortgage??

JustAThought

Pelvis wrote: »

And paying the mortgage??

It is HIS mortgage. His responsibility.

Calhoun

Littlehorny wrote: »

Thank you for your post LirW, you have hit the nail on the head. I didn't want to get into personal stuff in my inquiry but lets clear up the assumptions people have made here.
He would rather have his own place at his age. He has 3 kids, one is still youngish (8) so he can't be bringing kids to a house share. He has moved back to Dublin from a negative equity place in Cavan, he is a decent bloke who is paying the mortgage in Cavan and giving his ex money for the kids i.e he is trying to do the right thing by her. I hate getting personal but she is a nightmare and I don't blame him one bit for reaching the end of his thether.
I have offered him the couch in my own home but his Mother has a house in Dublin and he works there, this job he has is only a year old, so its not like he has plenty of savings etc.
With the sky high rents in Dublin, he couldn't afford a place on his own. He is also trying to do the right thing with the Council by declaring he is living there, maybe he should just move in and say nothing? Because some people on here have made me sorry I asked my original questions.

Your brother in law is a bit of a fool, doing the right thing putting himself into a position where he cant afford to look after himself.

If he isnt living in the house in Cavan, i would not be paying the full mortgage unless the plan was to sell up soon. I'd pay half the mortgage and maintenance and leave it at that.

With what he saves he might be able to get himself a place to live in Dublin.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

We have no information about whether the carpet was pulled from under his fee, or whether something else happened. Most marriage counselling starts from the position that both people are responsible for a relationship breakdown, and that there's never really anyone who is unaware that it's coming.


The should not go to the welfare office. It's not a welfare issue (beyond her living alone allowance, which is trivial in the scale of things.) It's a differential rent issue, and the place to go for advice is the housing office at the council.





We have no information about why the man's marriage broke down. He could be a lovely man. He could be many other things, which would rightly make his elderly mother nervous about living with him. (One of my friends had her psychotic adult son hold a carving knife at her throat. His psychiatrist has said he should never live with her again.)



OP, you say that the increased rent is the only concern. In that case, ask the council for permission for him to move in (it's not automatic that they will allow it - they they need to check if he has arrears or ABS history from any other council property, and ask them to assess the rent. He should organise a standing order from his bank account to the mothers for at least the rental difference. Also, make him promise that when he moves out again, he will provide proof of his new address to the council.

The latter point is where some people get caught. The relative moves out, but will not provide proof, so the council keep charging rent as though they are still living there. The lease-holder can be left with a nasty bill that they cannot afford to pay - and situations like this may well be where the concern is coming from.

Then stay the hell out of the personal stuff and just stick to the points the OP asks about?

Seriously, some posters on boards just love to stick the boot in. Waiting for the "there's obviously more to this" type comments

JustAThought

JustAThought wrote: »

It is HIS mortgage. His responsibility.

"THEIR"

jca

It’s €20 extra for an adult with a wage (in Co. Wexford) maybe it’s different in your area. Strange that she’s only paying €19 rent the minimum here is €30 up to €171 income, 24% of any income over that amount, these figures apply to the tenant, anyone over 18 pays €20.

Electric Sheep

jca wrote: »

It’s €20 extra for an adult with a wage (in Co. Wexford) maybe it’s different in your area. Strange that she’s only paying €19 rent the minimum here is €30 up to €171 income, 24% of any income over that amount, these figures apply to the tenant, anyone over 18 pays €20.

Pelvis wrote: »

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Surely paying child support is doing right by his children not doing right by his ex?

And paying the mortgage??

Keeping a roof over his kids' heads. Unless he plans to move them in on his mother too.

Littlehorny

Calhoun wrote: »

Your brother in law is a bit of a fool, doing the right thing putting himself into a position where he cant afford to look after himself.

If he isnt living in the house in Cavan, i would not be paying the full mortgage unless the plan was to sell up soon. I'd pay half the mortgage and maintenance and leave it at that.

With what he saves he might be able to get himself a place to live in Dublin.

I know what your saying, its easy telling the guy to "toughen up" and tell him he has to live too. But his ex is a nightmare, he rings the kids every day and drives up and down from Cavan once a week to take them back to Dublin foe a while.
If he only pays half the mortgage, she won't pay her half,end of. She is constantly on the phone to him, money, money, money.
He told her for years he was so unhappy and she didn't give a fook, now she is totally playing the victim card in this.

LirW

I genuinely hope that none of the posters here that think this man is an entitled manchild will ever face a messy marriage breakdown with tons of debt involved, maybe even negative enquity and a stay at home partner that's can't be engaged. This isn't some tiny bump in life, this is literally starting from scratch because many in divorce proceedings lose almost everything.
Also it's not that he now wants to live the dole life waiting for mammy to pass on to get a grand council house in Dublin. Not surprised that he needs to get back on his feet after something so groundbreaking.
The mother is fine having him around but naturally of course she thinks of the right thing to do and think about eventual implications. Can't think of the outcry of the high horse brigade here if she'd just move him in without declaring it.
Let's just hope that all of you have a security net in place if you'd lose your home, marriage, well paying job because of an accident. Life fcuking happens and sometimes despite our best efforts we can't help ourselves out of it.

Anyway I hope that the guy in the OP and his mother get the information they need, all the best to them.

Calhoun

Littlehorny wrote: »

I know what your saying, its easy telling the guy to "toughen up" and tell him he has to live too. But his ex is a nightmare, he rings the kids every day and drives up and down from Cavan once a week to take them back to Dublin foe a while.
If he only pays half the mortgage, she won't pay her half,end of. She is constantly on the phone to him, money, money, money.
He told her for years he was so unhappy and she didn't give a fook, now she is totally playing the victim card in this.

Yah excuse the bluntness, obviously thats not how you would say it to him. He needs support ect but he also needs to come to the realization that he cannot do it all and has to at some point realize that his own health and well being is important as well.

Littlehorny

Thanks to all who posted, but I feel this thread has drifted into the Personal Issues section and not the Accommodation and Property section so if a mod is reading this could you please close this off now please?

Littlehorny

LirW wrote: »

I genuinely hope that none of the posters here that think this man is an entitled manchild will ever face a messy marriage breakdown with tons of debt involved, maybe even negative enquity and a stay at home partner that's can't be engaged. This isn't some tiny bump in life, this is literally starting from scratch because many in divorce proceedings lose almost everything.
Also it's not that he now wants to live the dole life waiting for mammy to pass on to get a grand council house in Dublin. Not surprised that he needs to get back on his feet after something so groundbreaking.
The mother is fine having him around but naturally of course she thinks of the right thing to do and think about eventual implications. Can't think of the outcry of the high horse brigade here if she'd just move him in without declaring it.
Let's just hope that all of you have a security net in place if you'd lose your home, marriage, well paying job because of an accident. Life fcuking happens and sometimes despite our best efforts we can't help ourselves out of it.

Anyway I hope that the guy in the OP and his mother get the information they need, all the best to them.

Thanks LirW, you have been a tonic in a thread I am really sorry I started now:)

The_Conductor

OP- the retired lady really needs to get professional advice.
Its all well and good looking for pointers here on Boards- however, we could either send you off in an inappropriate direction- or unintentionally give you entirely misleading information. At very least the lady would loose her living alone allowance- but she could also loose a number of other benefits- and there is absolutely no reason that the local authority could or should agree to adding her adult son as a co-tenant to the property (there has been a crack-down on people doing things like this).

The lady needs to go and talk to DSP, Citizens Advice- and others.

surrender monkey

What Local Authority is it? The differential rent schemes are published on line and outline the rules in the local authority area.

Is this house that the mother is in the family house. Did your friend grow up there? If so the council will have records of your friend living there. It will be no issue to the council they will assess your friend for rent, charge the differential percentage of the household income. Your friend would not be able to go on the tenancy though...as they own property. The house would have to be dealt with in a divorce before he would be allowed on a tenancy.

Gumbo

Littlehorny wrote: »

Thanks to all who posted, but I feel this thread has drifted into the Personal Issues section and not the Accommodation and Property section so if a mod is reading this could you please close this off now please?

Done as requested.