What type of person works in recruitment?

lufties

By this I mean, I don't think I've met an honest recruiter with integrity. They all seem like used car sales people. When I think of all my peers and social circles throughout my life, I can't think of any that would fit the recruiter role.

They lie, bluff, and deceive to earn commission off the back of your hard labour. I'm thinking, how can they even sleep at night. Its baffling really.

Fozzydog3

"Driven, motivated, go-getters" with no discernible skills or personality, usually they missed their big shot in life and have now been reduced to selling out people for the small chance to live the same lifestyle as their peers.

fritzelly

The type that can't get a job themselves?
Job agencies are sales guys/gals - sell you the moon..., thinking of them as anything else is a misnomer

lufties

fritzelly wrote: »

The type that can't get a job themselves?
Job agencies are sales guys/gals - sell you the moon..., thinking of them as anything else is a misnomer

Pure scum in other words. The English in particular seem to have a special gift for churning out unscrupulous sociopathic agencies.

Wanderer2010

Recruitment agencies also seem to have very high turnover with people leaving after a year or so for whatever reason.

OMM 0000

Let me give you an analogy:

There's a mobile phone store which only sells two phones - an iPhone and a crappy Indian brand.

Only the iPhone sells well, so the sales people ignore the crappy Indian phone.

The customers are the people who buy the phones. The phones are the product.

So:

In a recruitment agency, employers are the customers.
You (jobseekers) are the product. If you aren't selling (i.e. no employer wants you) you will be ignored. It's not because they're bad people, it's because they're sales people and their job is to make money.

But I agree they should send you an e-mail when you don't get the job.

Moral of the story:

Be an iPhone.

Stheno

mod

less of the scum/Nazi comments please

beauf

There's a lot of used car salesmen about many of them. You do meet some who are specialised and are pretty good. Might depend on the roles you are going for.

OMM 0000

The car salesman isn't a good analogy though, because as a jobseeker you're not the customer. You're the factory trying to get the car salesman to try to sell your product.

beauf

It's just what they remind you off.

I don't think anyone thinks it's a similar business model.

OMM 0000

I think the problem is people don't really understand they're the one trying to sell themselves to the recruiter.

Imagine you worked in a factory, and you made junk.

And you contacted a company and said "hey do you want to buy our junk".

And the company said "ok, let me see if I can sell it".

The company then tries and fails to sell your junk.

That's basically the transaction you have with a recruiter.

Of course, if the company successfully sells your junk, they'll be your best friend. That's the transaction when you get a job.

beauf

They treat people like junk??? Freudian slip...

I think most people problem is they don't listen and don't understand the job or the skill sets they are trying to match/sell.

The good ones do. Once you've done a few contacts with the same agency is gets better.

Indricotherium

OMM 0000 wrote: »

The car salesman isn't a good analogy though, because as a jobseeker you're not the customer. You're the factory trying to get the car salesman to try to sell your product.

You're the car.

TG1

They are people, just like everyone else.... People with a job to do. That job is to fill holes in their clients employee base.

They work with the job description they are given by the client, and the information they are given by their pool of potential candidates. It's as simple as that.

They aren't out to get anyone, or personally choosing one person's career to sabotage, they are just doing their job. I hate seeing these threads attacking them just because a few people didn't get their dream jobs!

OMM 0000

Indricotherium wrote: »

You're the car.

Yes, but you can either be a Ferrari or a Lada.

The Ferrari is going to get all their attention and effort, whereas they will probably ignore the Lada.

But if you get a good care salesman, they might try to push the Lada on someone who is desperate.

Danzy

Fozzydog3 wrote: »

"Driven, motivated, go-getters" with no discernible skills or personality, usually they missed their big shot in life and have now been reduced to selling out people for the small chance to live the same lifestyle as their peers.

Not unusual to earn 60-100k in recruitment, in specialized fields, north of that.

Did it for a couple of years, some fields are more aggressive than others, ie I was in Sales recruitment and it was a cut throat environment and that was just the candidates.

Often recruiters go on to work full time in house or in to sales roles.

Quite a few of my ex colleagues became Corporate account managers in Dell.

lawred2

I dealt with one decent scrupulous recruiter and I have gotten two positions through him.

The rest are pure rubbish that I've dealt with

mikemac2

I’ve worked with one chap in Dublin who was a top guy. On the ball, professional and quick to reply. We still check in with each other a few times during the year.

Everyone other one I met were clowns especially the one who gave me the wrong job spec for an interview. When I asked my amazing prepared question at the end there was a long silence and I was told I was interviewing for something else. Awkward!

B.A._Baracus

Waste of time.
Best to stay away from jobs.ie , monster.ie etc as you get so much recruiters posting fake jobs to put people on their books.

B.A._Baracus

TG1 wrote: »

They are people, just like everyone else.... People with a job to do. That job is to fill holes in their clients employee base.

They work with the job description they are given by the client, and the information they are given by their pool of potential candidates. It's as simple as that.

They aren't out to get anyone, or personally choosing one person's career to sabotage, they are just doing their job. I hate seeing these threads attacking them just because a few people didn't get their dream jobs!

Ah yes, the "poor old" so and so line.
If they are just doing their job.... then why post fake jobs? because now now, we all know they do this. Have to fill up their books with potential future candidates. Have to dangle that carrot in front of people to get results.

lawred2

mikemac2 wrote: »

I’ve worked with one chap in Dublin who was a top guy. On the ball, professional and quick to reply. We still check in with each other a few times during the year.

Everyone other one I met were clowns especially the one who gave me the wrong job spec for an interview. When I asked my amazing prepared question at the end there was a long silence and I was told I was interviewing for something else. Awkward!

Wonder was it the same lad

TG1

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Ah yes, the "poor old" so and so line.
If they are just doing their job.... then why post fake jobs? because now now, we all know they do this. Have to fill up their books with potential future candidates. Have to dangle that carrot in front of people to get results.

Any job I've applied for through an agency has been a real job. Where are these fake jobs being advertised?

lufties

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Waste of time.
Best to stay away from jobs.ie , monster.ie etc as you get so much recruiters posting fake jobs to put people on their books.

Try living and working in England, they are masters at manipulation and have it down to a very fine art.

You'll be lucky to get paid.

Berserker

As an aside, can an agency hold onto your c.v. and details since GDPR came into place?

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Recruitment agencies also seem to have very high turnover with people leaving after a year or so for whatever reason.

Used to deal with agencies years ago as part of my first job and a good chunk of the newbie staff left after a few weeks and months.

mikemac2 wrote: »

I’ve worked with one chap in Dublin who was a top guy. On the ball, professional and quick to reply. We still check in with each other a few times during the year.

I know some decent people in the industry that I'd trust and I often chat to them about organisations and roles. I am super cautious about dealing with new agencies. Been stung before just like you.

witchgirl26

I've dealt with a few and while some didn't seem that great, I have my current position through a recruiter and he was brilliant. I was struggling to find roles in my field before he reached out on LinkedIn. Gave it a shot because I was looking and so grateful. 7 interviews in the space of a week and after the initial ones, we met to discuss what I liked and didn't like about the roles, the companies etc so that we could narrow down my search even more.

That said, guys like him are few and far between in my experience.

lufties

Berserker wrote: »

As an aside, can an agency hold onto your c.v. and details since GDPR came into place?



Used to deal with agencies years ago as part of my first job and a good chunk of the newbie staff left after a few weeks and months.



I know some decent people in the industry that I'd trust and I often chat to them about organisations and roles. I am super cautious about dealing with new agencies. Been stung before just like you.

I went through a recruiter for a role earlier on in the year, When I asked 'difficult' questions, they were either ignored, or the recruiter put on his bully hat.

I'd say 80% + are cut from the same cloth, with the same sociopathic tendencies. Most have no conscience, are lazy, and devoid of morals.

B.A._Baracus

TG1 wrote: »

Any job I've applied for through an agency has been a real job. Where are these fake jobs being advertised?

Oh go way out of that.
If you didn't cop on to them then you are A, blindly walking through life or B, lying as someone close to you is a recruiter. Would explain your previous post too.


I'm going with B. So who is it... Your partner? Best mate? :pac:

fritzelly

Gotta love those jobs they advertise that you go, into the agency, for the next day and they've suddenly been taken.
Been there, done that. Ever since when looking for jobs always exclude agencies from the results - total waste of time

JMNolan

The last time I dealt with a recruitment agency (2011) the following happened

I was looking for a software dev position. Found one on a recruitment agency website. Recruiter contacted me and was delighted. I was a great match for the job in company x. Recruiter said she was sending in my CV. Never heard from that recruiter again.

About a month later, chatting to a buddy, mentioned I had put in for a job in company x via recruitment agency. Buddy says he knows the hiring manager, buddy contacted company x, they never got my CV. Buddy sends in CV, I got the job.

If that recruiter had bothered to even do the most basic job and send my CV in she would no doubt have secured the commission (or however they get paid).

TG1

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Oh go way out of that.
If you didn't cop on to them then you are A, blindly walking through life or B, lying as someone close to you is a recruiter. Would explain your previous post too.


I'm going with B. So who is it... Your partner? Best mate? :pac:

Nope, don't know any personally.

But I deal agency's a lot through my own job and have got three out of five jobs I've had through them, and have only come across genuine people trying to get me a role to earn commission!

I've never come across fake adverts and am genuinely curious, as jobs boards packages cost a fortune and I would like to know how agencies waste slots they pay a few grand for on fake adverts when they have real ones that will earn them fees to post!

fritzelly

TG1 wrote: »

Nope, don't know any personally.

But I deal agency's a lot through my own job and have got three out of five jobs I've had through them, and have only come across genuine people trying to get me a role to earn commission!

I've never come across fake adverts and am genuinely curious, as jobs boards packages cost a fortune and I would like to know how agencies waste slots they pay a few grand for on fake adverts when they have real ones that will earn them fees to post!

Getting people on their books - could be some company looking for specific requirements or needing 10 medial jobs in the future
Numbers game at the end of the day

TG1

fritzelly wrote: »

Getting people on their books - could be some company looking for specific requirements or needing 10 medial jobs in the future
Numbers game at the end of the day

But unless it's for a very specific niche role, getting people on their books is not difficult. I dealt with an agency for a finance role recently and within 24 hours they had 7 potentials sent over to me.... They have candidate pools for any normal sort of function/role already, as they build them up through previous roles.

For example, I got one job as I had applied for a job, lost out after round 2, then a week later another company contacted the agency about a similar role , and the agency rang to ask if they could put me forward. That's how candidates pools are built as far as I'm aware.

I just have never come across this "sociopath recruitment agent" you are all talking about in years of dealing with them as both a client and a job applicant so am genuinely confused as to where all the bad feeling towards them comes from!

fritzelly

Nothing stopping them contacting people who may already be employed to say do you fancy this job.
If you have a stock of a 1000 qualified people on your books and a company comes looking to you to fill a position you can just say ohh yeah I've got a 100 suitable guys on the books. Not even bothering to tell the employer you don't know what they are doing or when the last time you had contact with them
They could be earning a very pretty penny for a well qualified job, as for the more menial jobs - well they still earn a nice commission.

TG1

fritzelly wrote: »

Nothing stopping them contacting people who may already be employed to say do you fancy this job.
If you have a stock of a 1000 qualified people on your books and a company comes looking to you to fill a position you can just say ohh yeah I've got a 100 suitable guys on the books. Not even bothering to tell the employer you don't know what they are doing or when the last time you had contact with them
They could be earning a very pretty penny for a well qualified job, as for the more menial jobs - well they still earn a nice commission.

But if you're on the books you still won't be sent to a client until they have contacted you and got your permission to send over your details to the client. So in my example above within 24 hours they had contacted and received permission to send 7 candidates on.

Agencies are not struggling for candidates, they are struggling for clients as the fees they charge companies are extortionate, so I don't understand where this perception of them advertising jobs that don't exist comes from.

I would imagine actually a lot of it comes from companies themselves. Off the top of my head I can think of two occasions in the last year where I reached out to agencies, only to have management do a rethink half way through the process and decide the vacancy doesn't need filling, or change the role dramatically. I then had to pull the role with an agency, who subsequently had to go back to the candidates and say that the role was gone.

That happens more than you would like to think...

fritzelly

TG1 wrote: »

But if you're on the books you still won't be sent to a client until they have contacted you and got your permission to send over your details to the client. So in my example above within 24 hours they had contacted and received permission to send 7 candidates on.

Call 20+ candidates on their books to say are you interested in this job - whats that, an hours work for someone?

TG1

fritzelly wrote: »

Call 20+ candidates on their books to say are you interested in this job - whats that, an hours work for someone?

My point is that they have candidates lining themselves up without the need to resort to posting fake job adverts in slots that could be earning them revenue.

Also, any time I've been contacted by an agency as a candidate I've spent at least 20 minutes on the phone to them sussing out the role and having them sussing me and my experience, so more like 3 - 4 hours work, and keep in mind that is potentially 3 - 4 hours generating no revenue for their employer if the client goes a different route.

I don't think they have it easy at all, I could branch into it from my career path and I wouldn't for all the money in the world. It's an awful job from what I can see.

Eoin

TG1 wrote: »

Any job I've applied for through an agency has been a real job. Where are these fake jobs being advertised?

I've seen some jobs that have already been filled but still appear active, but that's about it. Certainly don't agree with most the hyperbole on this thread anyway. I think people grossly misunderstand their relationship as a candidate with a recruiter.

beauf

I'd be surprised if anyone thinks they are anything other than a number to an agency.

Eoin

beauf wrote: »

I'd be surprised if anyone thinks they are anything other than a number to an agency.

I'm not sure; I genuinely think some people think the recruiter's role is to find them a job.

TG1

Eoin wrote: »

I'm not sure; I genuinely think some people think the recruiter's role is to find them a job.

I agree, I think a huge part of why people have a certain view of recruiters is that they don't accept that the recruiter doesn't get commission for placing them, they get commission for placing a candidate.
In house HR (the ones that pay recruiters fees) get frustrated if recruiters continuously send unsuitable candidates. If you are not the most suitable candidate the recruiter has on their books, they won't be pushing you, end of.
It's not because they are sociopaths or they hate you and want to ruin your life, it's because they want to get paid. Just like everyone else in the workforce!

beauf

None of that explains the stupid things a lot of them do.

Berserker

TG1 wrote: »

But if you're on the books you still won't be sent to a client until they have contacted you and got your permission to send over your details to the client.

Not true for all of them. A company I worked for years ago, my first employer to be exact, re-branded a few years ago. They were looking to hire experienced people, so they decided to use an agency. The agency sent over my c.v. to them, unbeknown to me. The hiring manager was my old boss, so he dropped me a line to check if I was available, so they were found out.

fritzelly

TG1 wrote: »

I agree, I think a huge part of why people have a certain view of recruiters is that they don't accept that the recruiter doesn't get commission for placing them, they get commission for placing a candidate

I don't think anyone is under the illusion that you get commission for proposing/putting forward anyone - why would anyone think that?!?!

skallywag

It's a mixed bag.

I've encountered many which are very poor. On the other hand I have also come across those who are excellent, both from the perspective of strengthening my own team and also being on the look out for positions that I myself may be interested in.

It's definitely worth keeping a relationship alive with those who are skilled in this area and with whom one has a strong relationship. There are one or two who come to mind who I have been dealing with for many years, and would always be my first port of call.

LollipopJimmy

I have to find threads like this quite funny. I work in recruitment, commission isn't really a driver, I have targets and kpi's like everybody else but anybody gets a fair crack of the whip.

I've had candidates walk in with coke on their nose, candidates who turn up in jeans to discuss senior roles, candidates who just didn't bother turning up and then get miffed when I won't reschedule (I will always reschedule if a candidate contacts me beforehand) Treat me with respect and you will get the same back. But, with most jobs there will be at least 2 or 3 people who I need to let down. In fairness, i always give honest feedback and it seems to be appreciated.
Last Friday I had sent a regret email to somebody who had applied for a role in Limerick, living in West Kerry and not willing to relocate, not really that suitable on paper either, stronger candidates living in the territory and he tore me apart then tagged me on Linkedin in a rant about recruiters.
My advice? Tell the recruiter at the start what you expect from them and hold them accountable.

I actually took a move from in house recruitment to agency, location and other terms suited me. I've seen it All at this stage

lufties

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I have to find threads like this quite funny. I work in recruitment, commission isn't really a driver, I have targets and kpi's like everybody else but anybody gets a fair crack of the whip.

I've had candidates walk in with coke on their nose, candidates who turn up in jeans to discuss senior roles, candidates who just didn't bother turning up and then get miffed when I won't reschedule (I will always reschedule if a candidate contacts me beforehand) Treat me with respect and you will get the same back. But, with most jobs there will be at least 2 or 3 people who I need to let down. In fairness, i always give honest feedback and it seems to be appreciated.
Last Friday I had sent a regret email to somebody who had applied for a role in Limerick, living in West Kerry and not willing to relocate, not really that suitable on paper either, stronger candidates living in the territory and he tore me apart then tagged me on Linkedin in a rant about recruiters.
My advice? Tell the recruiter at the start what you expect from them and hold them accountable.

I actually took a move from in house recruitment to agency, location and other terms suited me. I've seen it All at this stage

Ok, but how about this.

I recently was told by a recruiter in England (I know, I know..The Brits!!) about a contract job in scandinavia, He sold me the job on a fixed salary based on a weekly shift pattern of 5 on 2 off. On arrival the problems became evident. Weeks in a hotel waiting on an I.D pass (for the job). No replies to emails, arrogant answers on the phone. Being bull****ted to constantly.
I called someone in payroll and she was lovely, and basically told me her colleagues do not care. She referred to them as Teflon shoulders, and said its about bums on seats. If candidates unknowingly walk into a room with a bomb in it, its tough titty.
The problem is that agencies lie, deceive, and are generally sociopathic. I personally have never showed up to a job in jeans, drunk, or on coke. I am quite flexible, but agencies just lie and manipulate constantly.

beauf

What has that got to do with recruitment or an agency?

lufties

beauf wrote: »

What has that got to do with recruitment or an agency?

What do you mean? The recruiter lied to get me in the job, and takes no responsibility.

beauf

What did they lie about?

If a company ends up being a disaster that's hardly something the agency will know or be responsible for unless they had previous experience of poor feedback and ignored it.

Companies being poorly prepared for someone joining is hardly unusual.

lufties

beauf wrote: »

What did they lie about?

If a company ends up being a disaster that's hardly something the agency will know or be responsible for unless they had previous experience of poor feedback and ignored it.

Companies being poorly prepared for someone joining is hardly unusual.

Nothing to do with the company. They sold me the job as a certain salary based on a particular shift pattern. This was lies.

beauf

You didn't mention that in your first comment. You were on about IDs not being ready.

Most us will have experienced used car sales tricks from many agencies and recruiters.