Open/Closed Window Blinds on Flights?

DOCARCH

Just back from the US having traveled DUB/EWR and EWR/DUB with United.

On the outward daytime flight (which departed DUB at around 9.30am and arrived EWR around 11.30am local time) within 20 minutes of departure, cabin crew insisted all window blinds be shut and they policed this for the duration of the entire flight!

I had a window seat, which I always try and (do) get. Twice I opened the window blind during the flight to have a peak out and within 30 seconds cabin crew were on my case to close the window blind! I actually prefer looking out the window to IFE!

The 'policy' was relaxed about 10 minutes from landing but there was no request for all window blinds to be opened for landing (....as there used to be).

It was similar on the return night time flight, but with the added request that all window blinds be shut immediately after boarding/prior to us pulling back from the gate!!! Sort of understandable as it is a night time flight (although it was dark outside....as the flight was delayed departing), however, having the blinds closed for taxing and take off was actually a bit disturbing (and claustrophobic)!

Any logical rational for this policy and is this common practice now?

I did take a short haul flight/day time within the US, with United, when I was there and this policy did not apply....there was no instruction with regard to the window blinds.

Usually during the day it’s because others are trying to sleep or watch IFE without the bright glare.

The night time one is odd as the common practice is have them open so you can remain orientated and aware of what is happening outside the aircraft in the event of an evac.

In all fairness why have bloody windows on United aircraft if they insist and then bully people in to obeying they, we all know that if you ignore them the plane will be diverted and you will be dragged down the aisle by security. To be honest the amount of stories around about United makes me think twice about ever travelling with them.

I personally prefer looking out the window. Maybe not so much going over the boring Atlantic but why have windows if I’m not allowed use them.

DOCARCH

Deleted User wrote: »

Usually during the day it’s because others are trying to sleep or watch IFE without the bright glare.

I thought that might be their argument!

But....on a daytime west bound transatlantic flight, making the cabin fully darkened, for the duration of the flight, to 'encourage' sleep is no help at all for jet lag the other end! For people who want to sleep, in the old days they handed out eye masks!

As for IFE, United have got rid of all IFE screens in economy....you can use your own device and in fairness you can use the United app to watch movies, etc. There is free wifi on board which allows you access the United app (only). Either way, if people have problems seeing their screens, say on the 'sunny side' of the aircraft, they are always free to close their own blind.

My own theory on this is lazy cabin crew!!!

Making the cabin fully darkened, I would think, subdues the pax, and encourages sleep or watching IFE which in turn probably reduces demands on the cabin crew? Noted on the outward journey the cabin crew were bit disheveled and grumpy (....as if they had been on the p**s the night before!).

DOCARCH

Deleted User wrote: »

....we all know that if you ignore them the plane will be diverted and you will be dragged down the aisle by security.

Or have an air marshal jump on you! :pac:

That did go through my mind, so I thought twice about challenging!

Noxegon

The US airlines serving Dublin are as bad as each other.

A few years ago I got shouted at when I answered "seriously?" in response to a crew question about whether I was over fourteen years old. Being middle aged, balding, and at the time rather fat was apparently not obvious enough.

billy few mates

I was on a business class flight Europe to the Middle East a while back when the cabin crew announced that all the window blinds were to be closed for the flight. This was early afternoon, bright as day and I was sitting in a window seat and wanted to look out so I ignored it. The cabin crew came down and insisted I close the blind, so I did. After a while I slipped it open a bit so I could look out, he came down and told me again to open it, so again I complied and gave up. I was chatting to the purser then and I asked him about this, I told him I preferred looking out the window than watching a movie sometimes.
He told me the reason they had the closed blinds policy was because of the new mood lighting system they’d had installed....!
So on a beautiful bright clear day, instead of being able to enjoy the view I had to sit in a darkened cabin with two dozen other people watching a strip of lights in the ceiling and on the hat racks gradually changing from blue, to green to purple and back to blue....!

DOCARCH

My wife tweeted United to ask....they replied and said....

Hi there, great question, we require you to keep the blinds shut on hot, day flights as a way to keep the cabin as cool as possible.

Not a plausible answer (in my opinion).

At 35K feet it's normally approx. -50c (+/- 5c)! You usually can see the ice build up on the window! The (very) cold window helps minimise solar gain in the cabin and in any case the gap between the blind and inner window heats up instead and eventually transfers into the cabin anyway.

Have to get to the bottom of this as I think it's a mind control policy!!!

andrew163

Aer Lingus did this too on a 9 hour flight to Orlando in the middle of the day. It completely screws with your head. Departed in daylight, flew through daylight, arrived in the same daylight but feeling like I’d just pulled an all nighter without sleep.

The only good reason I can come up with for it is lazy cabin crew. It seems completely insane as a policy. Closing them on the ground to keep the cabin cool makes some sense, not in the air though.

vicwatson

I would not like this at all. I also like to look out, see Greenland from the air etc

Irish Steve

Wonder how long it will be before the low cost airlines start ordering aircraft without any cabin windows. They'd be able to change the seat pitch without worrying about "windows to look out of", the hull purchase costs would be lower, as the cabin interior would be much less complex, and there'd be a reduction in maintenance costs on things like the actual windows, and the blinds, and the manufacturing costs savings of not having windows and all the related structural issues would be a significant figure . They'd also then be in a stronger position to charge for access to in flight movie systems, even if using tablets or the like.

Personally, I'd hate not being able to look out the window, day or night, unless over water with nothing to see. I like looking to see if I can work out where we are over the ground, among other things, some of the best flights in that respect were the old Shorts 360s, non pressurised so flying much lower, and the windows were a lot larger as well, on a clear day the views were really good.

On the older projector based in flight entertainment systems, the blinds had to be pulled down so that there was a visible picture on the screen, if any of the blinds close to the screen were open, the quality of the image on the screen was basically unwatchable, but modern seat back IFE screens don't have that problem in the same way.

I suspect some shrink somewhere has suggested that reduced light levels help to reduce the demand on services, and keep passengers subdued during the flight, but I'd really want to see research that backs up that theory, I for one would be hostile to being forced to close the blinds on an overland daytime flight, I like being able to identify things on the ground.

tricky D

vicwatson wrote: »

I would not like this at all. I also like to look out, see Greenland from the air etc

I want to look at anything and nothing when in a window seat. Even at night there's stuff to see and I have no hope of ever sleeping in any mode of transport.


Only really had it once recently from SFO to home where the policy persisted until hours after full daylight.


Notice to Airlines: Leave our Blinds Alone!

smurfjed

This is actually Phase 2 of the Chemtrails program, on longer flights if you have the shades open, you might actually realise that the world isn't flat.

smurfjed

United crews must hate the 787 with the electrically controlled windows, at least around there they have a massive failure rate so its common to some "not shaded" while all the others were switched to "shaded".

plodder

smurfjed wrote: »

United crews must hate the 787 with the electrically controlled windows, at least around there they have a massive failure rate so its common to some "not shaded" while all the others were switched to "shaded".

That's something that Ryanair could charge extra for in some future version of the 737. The window would be just left dark unless you pay the 5 euro extra to control it.

DOCARCH

plodder wrote: »

That's something that Ryanair could charge extra for in some future version of the 737. The window would be just left dark unless you pay the 5 euro extra to control it.

I think a couple of years ago there was talk of Raynair not having window blinds on aircraft they were ordering/buying? IIRC it would have saved them around E200K per aircraft?

DOCARCH

andrew163 wrote: »

Aer Lingus did this too on a 9 hour flight to Orlando in the middle of the day.

I flew this route (with EI) a couple of years ago and there was no 'blind policy' then/at that time.

jjbrien

Irish Steve wrote: »

Wonder how long it will be before the low cost airlines start ordering aircraft without any cabin windows. They'd be able to change the seat pitch without worrying about "windows to look out of", the hull purchase costs would be lower, as the cabin interior would be much less complex, and there'd be a reduction in maintenance costs on things like the actual windows, and the blinds, and the manufacturing costs savings of not having windows and all the related structural issues would be a significant figure . They'd also then be in a stronger position to charge for access to in flight movie systems, even if using tablets or the like.

Personally, I'd hate not being able to look out the window, day or night, unless over water with nothing to see. I like looking to see if I can work out where we are over the ground, among other things, some of the best flights in that respect were the old Shorts 360s, non pressurised so flying much lower, and the windows were a lot larger as well, on a clear day the views were really good.

On the older projector based in flight entertainment systems, the blinds had to be pulled down so that there was a visible picture on the screen, if any of the blinds close to the screen were open, the quality of the image on the screen was basically unwatchable, but modern seat back IFE screens don't have that problem in the same way.

I suspect some shrink somewhere has suggested that reduced light levels help to reduce the demand on services, and keep passengers subdued during the flight, but I'd really want to see research that backs up that theory, I for one would be hostile to being forced to close the blinds on an overland daytime flight, I like being able to identify things on the ground.

Emirates are going this way with windowless aircraft https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44383220

Under His Eye

They would still need windows at the emergency exits and doors. I couldn't see them being able to overcome that hurdle.

DOCARCH

jjbrien wrote: »

Emirates are going this way with windowless aircraft https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44383220

I found it very claustrophobic and uncomfortable the other day taxiing and taking off with all window blinds shut!

A virtual window would help but that's not going to get over cabin crew's apparent issues with light in the cabin!

jjbrien

DOCARCH wrote: »

I found it very claustrophobic and uncomfortable the other day taxiing and taking off with all window blinds shut!

A virtual window would help but that's not going to get over cabin crew's apparent issues with light in the cabin!

I was surprised too by that article since if there was a fire or the system went down in an emergency then passengers would suffer on evacuation. Had the same close the window blinds on Aer Lingus and Norwegian to NYC

Tenger

I was cabin crew (A lifetime ago it seems) and we had a policy of window blinds open for taxi, takeoff and landing. This was for situational awareness.
In general on night flights pax were encouraged to close blinds, this was to help lower light level for the majority who wished to sleep. But I never saw an enforcement as described above.
Ive also read that Asian crews enforce the closed blinds policy inflight.
I think however see quite a lot of encouragement to close blinds from some of the less hard working crew I worked with. Personally I loved seeing the world below and would only ask for a shut blind if it was causing a problem to others.



One of my great memories from approx 2002 was a 60% full flight with the best display of Northern Lights I have ever seen. (Think ghostly waterfalls dancing in the sky) It was visible from the cabin, with the permission of the lady in charge I made a PA to the Economy cabin just as they were settling down to sleep. I suggested they open all blinds on the left and allow others to lean over and witness the spectacle for a few minutes.

smurfjed

Just a reminder as to why the shades are kept open for takeoff and landing

smurfjed

IIRC it would have saved them around E200K per aircraft?

I believe that includes the fuel savings due to the reduced weight.

Mebuntu

Irish Steve wrote: »

Wonder how long it will be before the low cost airlines start ordering aircraft without any cabin windows.

From what we read here it's the high cost airlines that are closing the blinds and leading the way to windowless .

I wonder what would have happened if the OP had refused to close the blinds en route. What would/could the flight attendants have done about it? Would a Captain divert because of an argument over blinds? Imagine what the Gardai would say about being called to Shannon to remove a "disruptive passenger" only to discover it was about blinds being open instead of shut.

DOCARCH

Mebuntu wrote: »

I wonder what would have happened if the OP had refused to close the blinds en route. What would/could the flight attendants have done about it? Would a Captain divert because of an argument over blinds? Imagine what the Gardai would say about being called to Shannon to remove a "disruptive passenger" only to discover it was about blinds being open instead of shut.

On a US airline, and in particular United, I did not want to take the chance of having a confrontation/argument with a (particularly grumpy) member of the cabin crew!

I am sure disobeying a request by cabin crew is an offence in itself (no matter how daft the request is).

I think if it was EI or BA I would have been more inclined to have a 'discussion' with cabin crew.

Locker10a

I’ve worked as long haul crew recently enough, at our airline the policy was lights low , windows closed, and keep the cabin dark once the first meal service was complete. This policy was introduced based on passengers feedback about resting inflight. So if you don’t like the policy then do the surveys you get from your carriers, feed back what you think, but for now the majority of passengers seem to support dark cabins to allow rest.

DOCARCH

Locker10a wrote: »

This policy was introduced based on passengers feedback about resting inflight. So if you don’t like the policy then do the surveys you get from your carriers, feed back what you think, but for now the majority of passengers seem to support dark cabins to allow rest.

That's fair enough (sort of).

My own opinion would be that if on a daytime flight, you should be afforded the opportunity to have daylight if you want it. For those who want to rest, they should be provided with eye masks.

Locker10a wrote: »

....at our airline the policy was lights low , windows closed, and keep the cabin dark once the first meal service was complete.

I also think that's sort of reasonable (although I still would not agree with it on daytime flights).

On my recent flight I just think the policy was taken way too far with instruction to close blinds (and keep them closed) as the aircraft was pulling back from the gate!

jon1981

I'm going to side with the window shades down camp ( seems I'm the only one). On the rare occasion that I am on the outside seat of the middle group of seats I've been blinded by the glare coming from windows I can't control. Whether I'm reading, watching IFE or working on my laptop I reserve the right not to be blinded.

The reason airlines are making it a policy is probably because it's more difficult for a passenger to object to it over being asked politely to shut the blind.

Window shades down please.

smurfjed

But then you miss views like this.

jon1981

jon1981 wrote: »

I reserve the right not to be blinded

Reserve that “right” by choosing the window seat.

jon1981

Deleted User wrote: »

Reserve that “right” by choosing the window seat.

Not always possible depending on time of booking/availability. Don't be so ignorant... a few hours away from looking into the blue yonder won't hurt you... on the other hand a blinding glare will.

Under His Eye

I will simply book with airlines that do not have this stupid policy. Simples.

Mebuntu

I am sure disobeying a request by cabin crew is an offence in itself (no matter how daft the request is).

I'm not sure how far that goes. In relation to safety and all that the CC rule is law but any other orders would have to be reasonable. I'm sure you would not accede to a request to remove your wig!

In your (United) case you might have put yourself in line for big payout had they laid a hand on you.

jon1981 wrote: »

Not always possible depending on time of booking/availability. Don't be so ignorant... a few hours away from looking into the blue yonder won't hurt you... on the other hand a blinding glare will.

This is not dissimilar to the reclining seat argument. I don't like you reclining your seat into my face but I have to live with it because CC don't care if I'm affected by it because the airline has put in reclining seats to be used if desired. I think forcing the blinds to be down for an entire trip is ludicrous. You pay for or they give you a window seat and then when you're onboard they refuse to let you look out the window. If you were brought to court over it the judge would laugh the case out the window!

jon1981

Mebuntu wrote: »

This is not dissimilar to the reclining seat argument. I don't like you reclining your seat into my face but I have to live with it because CC don't care if I'm affected by it because the airline has put in reclining seats to be used if desired. I think forcing the blinds to be down for an entire trip is ludicrous. You pay for or they give you a window seat and then when you're onboard they refuse to let you look out the window. If you were brought to court over it the judge would laugh the case out the window!

You cannot equate the two. A reclining seat in front of you is merely a discomfort and sure you can recline yours also. A blinding glare is very different.

Mebuntu

jon1981 wrote: »

You cannot equate the two. A reclining seat in front of you is merely a discomfort and sure you can recline yours also. A blinding glare is very different.

I would never recline a seat and take up someone else's space. A reclining seat is not just a discomfort. It's a physical obstacle. In your case you can always recline your seat and just close your eyes

jon1981

Mebuntu wrote: »

I would never recline a seat and take up someone else's space. A reclining seat is not just a discomfort. It's a physical obstacle. In your case you can always recline your seat and just close your eyes

The funny thing is, 90% of the time there is nothing to see!

Dial Hard

I'm flying to Atlanta and onwards to Orlando with Delta tomorrow and I really hope they don't have this stupid policy.

I have absolutely no issue pulling the blind if someone nearby is getting blinded or can't see their screen properly but trying to darken the entire cabin for a daytime flight is just plain ludicrous.

DOCARCH

I have to say that I have never reclined my seat on aircraft on any flight I have taken in my life, out of respect for the person behind me as I do not like it when the seat in front of me is reclined!

In the same vein, in the past, when I have had a window seat on the sunny side of the aircraft with the sun beaming in, I have closed my blind....given up my view....when I felt it was causing discomfort to other passengers around me/sitting near me.

Maybe I am a too conscientious passenger!

DOCARCH

jon1981 wrote: »

The funny thing is, 90% of the time there is nothing to see!

People should have the right to see nothing if they want too!

I traveled to JFK in March with Delta (no blind policy on that flight) and where you might expect to see nothing on the US/Canada side of the Atlantic, it was pretty spectacular seeing icebergs in coming down from the Labrador Straits.

Also you might see I am weather mod, so, looking at clouds (below) is always interesting (....to me)!

jon1981

DOCARCH wrote: »

Maybe I am a too conscientious passenger!

No, that's just being a nice human being, not a d!ck

cbyrd

DOCARCH wrote:

Any logical rational for this policy and is this common practice now?

It's in case of an emergency landing, so you'll be able to see the light strips down the aisle.

Noxegon

Passengers are obligated to obey instructions given by crew members.

Mebuntu

Noxegon wrote: »

Passengers are obligated to obey instructions given by crew members.

In principle I agree with you but, as in the case of Dr Dao, unreasonable instructions may be (correctly) challenged and, as we now know, cost the airline a big payout.

I'm unlikely ever to fly long-haul again but I'd nearly be tempted to book a flight and challenge the ridiculous and unreasonable blind-closing-for-the-whole-trip instruction to see what would happen - on the return flight, of course

DOCARCH

Mebuntu wrote: »

I'd nearly be tempted to book a flight and challenge the ridiculous and unreasonable blind-closing-for-the-whole-trip instruction to see what would happen - on the return flight, of course

Will set up crowd funding for same! :P

Dial Hard

Dial Hard wrote: »

I have absolutely no issue pulling the blind if someone nearby is getting blinded or can't see their screen properly but trying to darken the entire cabin for a daytime flight is just plain ludicrous.

I agree and quite often even on short flights have lowered the blind to stop the person across from me getting the reflected light in their face. I flew recently in the aisle seat watching my tablet and didn’t get troubled by the window being open beside me and the person in front in full recline either. I guess I just don’t get upset by others.

Mebuntu

DOCARCH wrote: »

Will set up crowd funding for same! :P

LOL. It would have to be very hush-hush, though. If EI CC got to hear about it in advance they might try a bribe with a bump up to 1st Class.

Which puts a thought in my head. Would CC have the nerve to tell someone who'd paid a fortune to travel at the front of the cabin to not be looking out the window?

Mebuntu

Mebuntu wrote: »

In principle I agree with you but, as in the case of Dr Dao, unreasonable instructions may be (correctly) challenged and, as we now know, cost the airline a big payout.

I'm unlikely ever to fly long-haul again but I'd nearly be tempted to book a flight and challenge the ridiculous and unreasonable blind-closing-for-the-whole-trip instruction to see what would happen - on the return flight, of course

I would fully agree with “reasonable” here, if for example I peaked out my window and saw the wonderful vista of the ice floes of the artic or northern lights and sat watching it, is it reasonable to say no to the CC when they instruct me to put it down by reasonably say “I haven’t seen this before I’d like to watch it for a while and take some pictures”. It’s hardly endangering the aircraft/crew/passengers is it. For heavens sake the aircraft has bloody windows imagine the cheek of me to actually use them.

General comment below

Also while I don’t mind sitting with my seat up and don’t get troubled by the person in front reclining since when has it become a thing to have a mickey fit over the person in front using the recline function installed on the seat they paid for ?! Some have suggested it’s etiquette to not recline, heavens above flights are painful enough in the tiny space they give you without relieving some of it by reclining an inch........an inch !!

Under His Eye

Mebuntu wrote: »

LOL. It would have to be very hush-hush, though. If EI CC got to hear about it in advance they might try a bribe with a bump up to 1st Class.

Which puts a thought in my head. Would CC have the nerve to tell someone who'd paid a fortune to travel at the front of the cabin to not be looking out the window?

I highly doubt it. More than their jobs worth.

Has anyone officially complained to the airline about this unwelcome practice?

It sounds like a mission to Area 51.

DOCARCH

Under His Eye wrote: »

Has anyone officially complained to the airline about this unwelcome practice?

Tweeted United and all they had to say on the matter was....

'Hi there, great question, we require you to keep the blinds shut on hot, day flights as a way to keep the cabin as cool as possible'.

A bit lame to be honest! Especially in my case where on the return journey we were instructed to close blinds pulling back from the gate....at night/in the dark!

Sent to few follow on tweets....they have not responded.

I and going fill out/submit their 'feedback' (....complaints....) form online and see what they come back with.

DOCARCH

DOCARCH wrote: »

Tweeted United and all they had to say on the matter was....

'Hi there, great question, we require you to keep the blinds shut on hot, day flights as a way to keep the cabin as cool as possible'.

A bit lame to be honest! Especially in my case where on the return journey we were instructed to close blinds pulling back from the gate....at night/in the dark!

Sent to few follow on tweets....they have not responded.

I and going fill out/submit their 'feedback' (....complaints....) form online and see what they come back with.

Translated as, reduces energy consumption required to cool the cabin by .00000001% and saves us $2 a year per aircraft.

I wouldn’t be paying them thousands of dollars for a business class seat to be told to keep my blind down for a start.

Mebuntu

OK, I have written the (first part) of the script and, perhaps, others more au fait with CC ops can give an indication of what might happen next.

CC: "Excuse me, Sir, You must pull down the window blind".
Me: " Huh? Why?"
CC: "It's the rule, Sir."
Me: "What rule?"
CC: "The rule that window blinds must be pulled down, Sir"
Me: "For how long?"
CC: "The whole flight, Sir".
Me: "You mean you want me to sit here at the window for 9 hours and not be allowed to look out through it".
CC: "That's right, Sir"
Me: (after a short pause, look of disbelief and entering into eccentric old guy mode) "Young lady, when I booked this flight I purposely chose this Window seat so that I could watch the outside world go by. There was no notice attached to the seat booking that said although it is a window seat you will not be allowed to look out through it. I consider that to be a totally unreasonable request which I am terribly sorry but I couldn't possibly agree to it".