Poverty trap and responding to self rightous people

Lapis Luzali

Out of my friends I feel like ive have things a bit harder than theyve had it. We all have our problems and im not undermining anything theyv gone through in life and im always supportive and do care about their problems but sometimes they whine about things I just feel like shaking them.
I grew up poor, both parents have minimum wage jobs and literally all my clothes came from second hand shops/hand me downs from people my mother knew. There where times we had to cut mold off bread and eat brown bananas. Its not like my parents didnt have money, they just spent it on other things, doing the house up, cigarettes, clothes and holidays for themselves, my dad had a drink and gambling problem so all his money went on that. My older brother was really spoiled and would trash the house, become violent towards all of us when he didnt get what he wanted so allot of money was spent on him too, toys, computers, computer games etc.
When things where really bad I remember my mother curled up in a ball on the couch whaling crying over money.
As a teenager going down town with friends on a Saturday, they'd have 20 - 50 euro where as id have a fiver at most and be asked for the change when I got home. I got 1 euro for my lunch everyday going to school. We wearnt allowed leave the school grounds at lunch time so you bought your lunch in the school shop, this was grand until the school brought in a new lunch menu and lunch shop with healthier food options - everything was too expensive for me so I spent the day hungry. Since primary school I was sneered at and called anorexic but its just because I didnt have money for food and we had very little food at home.
I went to college and this was a struggle because it was during the recession and their were no jobs, only for the SUSI grant college would have been have been a pipe dream for me so im really grateful but it was still hard, i was almost homeless because I couldn't pay the rent, my shoes where literally tied together with string, I ate once or twice a week but thought it would all be worth it. Education would be my ticket out of a poverty trap. Finished college, couldnt get a job - lack of experience I think as there had been a recession for most of my young adult life. My friends who had jobs got them because their parents or aunty/uncle knew someone. I never had that kind of support. So I saved my dole and did a postgrad, im qualified, experienced,got great references but still cant find a job. Im saving to do one last short term add on course which im told is guaranteed to get me a job, problem is its expensive for me, out of my way which means travel + extra expenses but ill do if it means work.
My friends are always complaining about money and how poor they are and how their parents wont give them anything. One friend just came back from a holiday with her family that her parents paid for, she's had 4 cars over the years, they bought every one, paid her insurance, tax, driving lessons etc. Pay towards her rent. She doesnt work, failed her junior cert so has no education yet can get her hair, nails and eyebrows done every few weeks, goes for lunch multiple times a week, runs a car, buys clothes, shoes bags, makeup, expensive skin care yet wines about how her parents wont give her anything. Another friend looks down on me all the time for not working but her parents gave her a house, car, paid her college education, get her jobs if she needs one, give her money all the time.
I get so f*cking fed up running in circles trying to break free from a poverty trap, working hard to get educated and get work and getting nowhere while other people around me seem to click their fingers and whatever they want falls into their lap. and the worst part is they dont even appreciate it, its like theyre entitled or they worked for it and then they look down on people that arent as privileged as they are. Im not complaining but im drained by my situation. I just feel like you need money to make money and you need to know the right people to get a job. I feel like I sound like im making excuses for myself or my inadequacy but its really not easy to get a job. Literally anyone I know who got their foot in the door in terms of getting experience and full time work did so through knowing someone. I know thats not the case for everyone, some people are very lucky and get jobs, but thats not been my experience.
My question is, how do I respond to these people when they complain about being poor or when they act self righteous because theyre in a better, more accomplished place while ignoring the fact they had multiple hands up in life in to get there?

LegacyUser

Lapis Luzali wrote: »

My question is, how do I respond to these people

Why would you respond? What's to be gained? An argument that's totally unnecessary and unproductive? You have indeed had it hard and fair play to you for the work you've put in to improve your lot, but building on that hard work won't be achieved by silly arguments with people who lived a different life and won't care about your story, so don't bother.

Your current difficulties finding work have little or nothing to do with most of what you wrote, treat and solve that as its own issue (it jumps out that you don't seem to have work experience of any kind and a part-time job, volunteering role or something simple enough will round out your CV a bit). Your past can be dealt with as a separate issue and given that some of your difficulties arose directly from your parent's behaviour, including addiction issues, you're more likely to get some benefit from counselling than trying to figure it out by yourself.

professore

OP some people have lots of advantages in life and others don't - that's just the way it works. The good news is if you are determined and believe in yourself you can be successful and build a richer life that your "rich" friends can only dream of. And you will have built it all yourself. There will be no pressure to go into the family business, go to the "right" schools, buy an overpriced house in the "right" area or date the "right" people. You are free to decide what you want to do with your life. And there has never been a better time in human history to have that freedom.

You are obviously smart, ambitious and well educated. If you are hard working and sociable then the world really is your oyster. Socialising with people and building your contacts will enormously expand your possibilities. You never know where your next opportunity is coming from. Maybe that woman buying a roll off you in your Spar job might just run a company that needs someone like yourself. I'm serious. Talk to people.

I grew up with very little myself in the 80s, my dad worked as a labourer in an industry that had ups and downs that meant he was unemployed / part time for long stretches and I got a full grant to attend college. Money was always tight. I did have the advantage that my parents were good people who did their best under the circumstances - but had little education.

A couple of things strike me about your post:

1. What kind of course did you do? Is it something with very little job prospects or something like STEM where you actually have to know SOMETHING rather than know SOMEONE to get a job in it? The latter type of qualification is much better if you are starting from zero like you are and I did. The add on course with job prospects sounds like a great idea.

2. Did you ever work in minimum wage / low skilled jobs? I worked summers in college and also after graduation took whatever I could get. I was very rarely on the dole. There was always the possibility to get some sort of work if you looked hard enough. It gets you out of the house and puts some money in your pocket. I think this attitude of giving everything to your kids is extremely damaging and is leading to people taking on huge loans and mortgages because they have no idea where money comes from.

3. Not to put too fine a point on it, your friends sound like a bunch of low achieving losers only concerned with superficial things to be honest. Can they not help you find something instead of criticising you and going on about how "unfortunate" they are? If not, what sort of friends are they really? The kind of people I hung round with are the kind always out to better themselves, working part time etc. These people are much more interesting anyway.

Many of my friends from college weren't wealthy either - one guy in particular is from a dirt poor family of 15 - he is now a high level manager for a multinational, owns several properties in the UK and the US and earns a couple of hundred grand a year. He still takes sugar and salt packets from hotels when travelling and keeps them in jars to use at home rather than buying sugar and salt in shops. Now in my 40s I have a network of friends and business associates in good positions that I can call if say my daughter needs a placement. This didn't appear out of nowhere, it came from being actual friends with people going places and ambitions in life. So I'd say try to cultivate better friends.

4. Would you consider going abroad for work? I don't know what you are qualified in, but whatever it is, if you can work abroad and get experience, in other countries they don't know anything about what estate is better than others or if you have the wrong accent.

OP, keep your head up and you will be fine. We all go through periods like this where things are really hard despite our best efforts. This will improve.

Rubberchikken

You have nothing to say to these people imo.
They have money. More than you. Less than others. Its the way the world works.

When youre in a job there will be others with more than you and even less than you. As a fact of life, its better if you start learning to accept it now.

Can you apply for part time work in a local garage/supermarket? Every little bit helps and in the meantime continue with your study.
Try to live your life and dont let what you see happening in other peoples lives affect yours.

heretothere

Fair play for getting through college. Don't worry about people being 'handed' jobs, you'll find one. I have never had a connection to get me in the door of any job I've ever had. Just keep on applying for jobs. Apply to some agencies too, they will help you to improve your CV.

Ignore your friends comments. Everyone complains about something in their life. There are obviously other parts about them you like, otherwise why would you be friends.

spaceHopper

Sorry to say this but your post does shound like you are complaing about them and comparing your life to theirs. How they live is has nothing to do with you. Stop thinking about it as it won't get you out of your situation.

OK you have a network of friends who are working, any of them in companies with bonus for recruiting friends.. Can you make use of that. You've been to college and can use a computer, can answer the phone... register with a temping agency, it's the summer companies need cover the reception, it's experience could lead places get yourself out there. If it affects your SW ask SW what would happen if you found casual work here and there.

LegacyUser

Guessed wrote: »

Why would you respond? What's to be gained? An argument that's totally unnecessary and unproductive?

+ 1 Have to agree with this OP. What do you need to respond to? Why would even want to be friends with someone who sneered at you over anything you've done or haven't done in your life? You are also judging them from your view point OP, you've no idea what is going on in their life so just move on, focus on yourself.

ahnow

Hi OP,

It sounds like you’ve had it really tough. If you feel like friends are looking down on you for your situation, they’re not great friends to have around.
I think the way you’ve worked up through the poverty and gone and gotten yourself a good education really reflects your resilience and determination, and it’s commendable. About getting a job, it’s hard to give advice with no background.
Just on how to deal with people that don’t seem to appreciate what they have: Everybody has their struggles, that you might not know about. You’ve had it hard, but that doesn’t mean your friends have not had it hard in other ways, you never know what’s going on with another person really, and everyone struggles at some point in their life in some way or another, and that might be a way of dealing with how you feel when they don’t seem to appreciate what they have.
For me, I’ve had financial help from my parents through the years, and things would have been a complete struggle if I didn’t, and not having walked in your shoes it’s really hard to understand what that kind of poverty is like, and really how lucky I am in that regard. But at the same time I’ve had terrible hidden struggles in my life that have made my childhood, teen years and early twenties more or less a write-off, and most of my friends don’t know that about me-and i’ve worked really hard to get to the point of where I am now. Although to the outside it might look like i’ve had it easy. So these things when you look at it that way are all relative. You have indeed had struggles, but just because someone looks like they’re prospering doesn’t mean their entire life has been rosey either.

seamus

Lapis Luzali wrote: »

My question is, how do I respond to these people when they complain about being poor or when they act self righteous because theyre in a better, more accomplished place while ignoring the fact they had multiple hands up in life in to get there?

The question is, why would you respond?

It's human nature to view everything through a perspective lens. People don't recognise their privileges until they're taken away. "Poor" is a matter of how well-off you started from.

If you turn around to friends and tell them to stop complaining, it could be worse, or to stop celebrating, you only got it because of your parents, then pretty soon you will find you have no friends at all.

If you have any particularly close friends, then it might be no harm confiding in them that you feel somewhat hurt when they complain about things that you would kill to have.

However there are ways you can be an enlightening force, without being confrontational or contrarian. For example, rather than specifically pointing out to people their own privilege, discuss it in a more general sense ("Someone from a poor background won't have many business contacts") ; or discuss it from your perspective - "I'm having difficulty getting jobs because I don't have any contacts to help me".

If you directly accuse/point out something to someone, they are more likely to become defensive and deny the accusation, than be open to it. If you stand beside them and point out the issue without accusation or confrontation, they're more likely to spot and accept that issue in themselves.

Overall though, as others say above, you need to move beyond comparing your life to others. All of your friends are comparing their life to someone else's, and complaining that they have it better. Focus on developing the life that you want, not the life that someone else has, or the life that you think other people think you should have.

If you are chasing someone else's life, then you will always be chasing. You will always want more.

LegacyUser

Have you posted before on this, OP?

Your story seems familiar and if so, I'm deeply sorry you have not yet found a place in life for yourself where you'll be happier because all I'm seeing in your post is desperate sadness and its heartbreaking.

So, your so called friends are anything but. True friends love and care for each other, and that includes at least being a sympathetic listening ear at the very least if they can do nothing else. Also, you're envious and while its natural, its poisoning you to be around them

Look, I'm originally a non EU immigrant. I knew noone to help with work. My irish husband didnt either as hed spent years abroad with me and we uprooted everything to try and raise xhildren here. There was a time we really struggled on one wage as I couldn't even get a shop assistant job, and I have stem qualification. I bit the bullet, swallowed my pride, took on a springboard course even though it was basically a duplication of papers I already had. My husband really took on a burden with that financially as there was travel etc involved.

After that I still had no joy! I had volunteering experience, internships etc but nothing.

So I applied to a civil service campaign (register with public jobs). It was very low pay for my qualification but steady money and relatively easy office work. I did that for 18 months to build my CV and references and I then got the job I really wanted in y own field on much much better money a year ago.

I would recommend civil service jobs as close to your degrees as possible. You may like the job in the end and there is career progression. Its also good to build up your confidence and they are recruiting a lot recently.

Xterminator

Hi Op

I think you don't really allow for or understand the human mindset.

You have had it hard compared to your peers. However you are still well inside the top 10% of people born on this planet. so when you complain about how hard you have had it, they would rll their eyes and think you are a self entitled ass, (just like you think of your more fortunate peers) because from their perspective you have been born with a silver spoon on your mouth.

You have never been driven from your home by floods famine or war. Never suffered oppression by the state, been locked up for your political views or sexual orientation (im making a few assumptions here). Never been made a slave, or trafficked as one. Have you ever had to kill someone to stay alive or feed yourself ? i suspect not.

Now my suggestion to you is to understand that your rich friends see other people who have it better and are moaning, just as you are here in your post, and just as those less fortunate than you would do reading your words. Your post reminds me of the dungeon scene on the life of brian, where he is called a lucky bast/\rd by another inmate, as he is spit at in the face, and placed in manacles, and sentenced to crucifixion.

You need to count your blessings. Really! Sit down and make list of the things you have to be grateful for. Be mindful of that when you go about your life, that you have been given opportunities most people would envy. A sense of perspective will help you deal with the major chip i suspect you carry.

orthsquel

Lapis Luzali wrote: »

I get so f*cking fed up running in circles trying to break free from a poverty trap, working hard to get educated and get work and getting nowhere while other people around me seem to click their fingers and whatever they want falls into their lap. and the worst part is they dont even appreciate it, its like theyre entitled or they worked for it and then they look down on people that arent as privileged as they are.

You don't really need to listen to them whine about money.... or respond to them either. The best at most you can do, is helpfully suggest they review how they spend their money and start budgeting their expenses. It may go down like a lead balloon, however. How they choose to spend their money isn't your business, even if they freely tell you, but you don't have to listen to it, but if they haven't a penny left for actual real expenses, it's not your problem to listen to either, because it's their choice to spend their money that way. Have one of your friends directly (or indirectly) insulted you about not working? Have anyone offered to help you get in the door somewhere, have you asked if there's jobs going where they work? Are you good friends with these people, with similar interests, passions, can rely on them, help eachother out? Because if not, then it doesn't sound too healthy for you to be friends with them and perhaps you need to distance yourself a bit.

It's not nice to feel others having things you want, or having an easy ride in life, or not appreciating what they have, or feeling your nose being rubbed in it. Comparing yourself to them is never a good idea.... it will only serve to bring you down on yourself and being your own enemy. There may be lots in the background that you don't know about your friends' circumstances about money arrangements and that they're not telling you. They could be envying you, with all that ambition and drive to do something purposeful with your life, working hard, earning money, when they may be too frightened to even try stepping up and going for qualifications, bettering themselves, living independently and being financially independent.

Keep working hard, keep trying for jobs, go to things related to the field you want in, but take any job going for the work. You'd be very surprised what people you can meet with Phds, Masters, Degrees working low paid jobs and what connections you can make with them.

LegacyUser

Most places want to see some work experience even if it isn’t industry related. Are you working at all, have you any work experience? You’ve mentioned training to be a teacher in other threads, what is the add on course that you think will guarantee you a job? A lot of teachers live on the breadline, sub, work ridiculously low hour contracts or second jobs? What is your summer work?

pwurple

I don't know how you fell in with this peer group, but they sound completely ridiculous. Brats, if I'm honest. There's no-one in my group of friends who has holidays or houses paid for by their parents. All of us started the same way, got our basic state education, part time jobs, and climbed the ladder from there. I haven't had a penny from my parents, nor do I expect it. I hope they can mind enough money to look after themselves in their old age. That's it. 

The only one of my friends who has some money, has lost both her parents to cancer... and I'm pretty sure she would prefer her parents back. She certainly doesn't spend it on nails/hair.. it's in an account for when she wants to buy a house. 

Why don't you take the piss out of them on this stuff? Rub the sharp edges off? Because they will get some roasting in the real world. Not in a mad vent, or in a cruel way... but the 'first world problems' kind of way... "Oh, my parents don't put fuel in the car they bought me... haha, wink wink".  What kind of friends are you, that you can't speak openly?

Chaos Tourist

Cut them out of your life as much as possible, avoid them like the plague. When the chips are down -- no one outside of your family and closest friends will really care about you.