Examiners Shortage,true or just hyped up scarmongering headlines!

ethical

A number of my colleagues are correcting both Leaving Cert. and Junior Cert. scripts as they do every year.I do not take part in this work but met a few the other day for a chat (yes,I was missing them!!!) and while a few were happy doing their usual, a few had got call from the States Exams Commission requesting them to correct subjects that they have never corrected before.This did not sit too well with them so they declined.
There has been some stuff in the media about extra incentives offered to correctors! We were just wondering did anyone avail of the offers and was the incentive worth it?
Another strange thing was one of our group actually applied for correcting this year in a subject that there was a shortage of qualified ,experienced personnel in.My colleague is a native Irish speaker and teacher of 25 years experience yet she did not get a call! So the shortage must not be that great or perhaps the SEC asked the business teacher to correct the gaeilge......after all the same SEC offered LCVP corrections to a french teacher!!!!! Hype and more hype it would seem!

thefasteriwalk

I’ve accepted extra papers. It’s 25% extra per paper.

r93kaey5p2izun

They're still advertising for correctors of Religion, French and Geography right now on education posts. A friend of mine who corrected in the past has received calls trying to persuade her to do it within the past few days for a different subject.

mtoutlemonde

Thiago Easy Serpent wrote: »

They're still advertising for correctors of Religion, French and Geography right now on education posts. A friend of mine who corrected in the past has received calls trying to persuade her to do it within the past few days for a different subject.

The SEC are totally to blame for this one - they sent out acceptance letters in February for correcting and then sent another one saying that they would not be doing online marking this year. It angered a lot of correctors who dropped out. I thought they had enough though as it said 'as vacancies arise'.

spurious

Number of papers in the bags well up for me, plus extra coming. I know one subject was down 25% of its examiners.

r93kaey5p2izun

Yes it's as vacancies arise for French and Geography but they must still not have the usual number in reserve if they're still looking. But Religion is an actual ad for correctors.

deiseindublin

ethical wrote: »

Another strange thing was one of our group actually applied for correcting this year in a subject that there was a shortage of qualified ,experienced personnel in.My colleague is a native Irish speaker and teacher of 25 years experience yet she did not get a call!

That is very odd. Is she actually qualified as an Irish teacher, or just a qualified teacher that is very experienced in teaching Irish? Maybe it's down to TC registered subjects.

spurious

I offered to take even a couple of hundred papers in one of the subjects they are stuck for, in addition to my other subject.

They said I couldn't correct two subjects (which isn't technically true as I already correct a non-written element in another subject).

I could have managed it, as the level of my assigned subject is fairly low and I can fly through papers. Anyway, there's stuck and stuck. I suppose they are not really super stuck.

ethical

Good Old Ireland where openess and transparency does not exist!
Teaching Council registered subjects,do they really check your TC reg to see what you are registered to teach/correct?
Yet ,ring and ask you to consider a subject they know that you are not reg to correct! Teachers,what back hander,under the table sweetener are you getting for correcting "extra" subjects in this so called "we are really ,really short of examiners era"?......(the silence is deafening,so you are getting some sweeties!),while some qualified teachers who applied for corrections did not get called.I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine twice!

Moody_mona

No silence. Thefasteriwalk has already stated they get 25% extra for additional papers. I haven't been offered any additional papers, so no perks for me.

spurious

I wasn't offered any in my second subject although I am registered and qualified in it.
I didn't get any in my main subject either (yet) but I got rather a lot in the bags initially, so maybe I won't get any more.

deiseindublin

How do they decide which papers are 'extra', therefore have a 25% levy? Do you get 100 or so papers more than you got last year so it's 100 extra papers, or do you they send on the extra ones after conference, following a phone call?

mtoutlemonde

deiseindublin wrote: »

How do they decide which papers are 'extra', therefore have a 25% levy? Do you get 100 or so papers more than you got last year so it's 100 extra papers, or do you they send on the extra ones after conference, following a phone call?

The SEC decide a number and anything over that number is deemed extra which you will get the 25% for. Everyone will have reached this number so will be getting extra for whatever they get on their bags. Volunteering for extra will be exam rate + 25%. I hope that makes sense

deiseindublin

So, you let them know at conference if you're willing to do extra, and you get them in your bag along with the others? Or they presume everybody is willing to do extra, and give them to you anyway?

Does everybody have the same 'number' to begin with, as in, is it very clear what the line is between extra and normal amount?

Postgrad10

Nobody really knows the exact number until they get home and count them. Sometimes you can get a few more than others in your group or the other way. They aim to split them as evenly as possible but sometimes superintendents don't put the right numbers on the outside of the bag or kids from a centre might not turn up . A few years back, someone in my group got a 100 extra and wasn't asked in advance, this year people were asked in certain subjects, not mine.

Postgrad10

deiseindublin wrote: »

So, you let them know at conference if you're willing to do extra, and you get them in your bag along with the others? Or they presume everybody is willing to do extra, and give them to you anyway?

Does everybody have the same 'number' to begin with, as in, is it very clear what the line is between extra and normal amount?

The chief examining team average the number of scripts per quantity of examiners and anything about that average is the extra rate.

thefasteriwalk

I’ve moved back to JC from LC this year. So for my JC subject it’s anything over 375 - although I had more than that initially before getting even more in the post.

mtoutlemonde

deiseindublin wrote: »

So, you let them know at conference if you're willing to do extra, and you get them in your bag along with the others? Or they presume everybody is willing to do extra, and give them to you anyway?

Does everybody have the same 'number' to begin with, as in, is it very clear what the line is between extra and normal amount?

Yes for extras. They will be forwarded later. Everyone will be paid extra once they reach the threshold set by the SEC whether you take extra or not.

mtoutlemonde

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

I’ve moved back to JC from LC this year. So for my JC subject it’s anything over 375 - although I had more than that initially before getting even more in the post.

Well then you get paid normal rate for the 375 and 25% for the excess. You have a lot of papers to begin with!!!!

deiseindublin

In a way the 25% sounds great but it's nonsense. Lets pretend you're doing great and getting €8 a paper, so €2 extra, of which revenue etc take 2/3 for most full time teachers so you get an extra 66c x maybe 100 papers. €66 really is nothing in the scheme of things over a 4 week commitment.

mtoutlemonde

deiseindublin wrote: »

In a way the 25% sounds great but it's nonsense. Lets pretend you're doing great and getting €8 a paper, so €2 extra, of which revenue etc take 2/3 for most full time teachers so you get an extra 66c x maybe 100 papers. €66 really is nothing in the scheme of things over a 4 week commitment.

I know but it gives you an incentive to do extra (even though the revenue will take it). In my case, my threshold is much less so it will be worth it financially to me anyway. The rates for papers only went up a little this year and is the first increase they have had for years so it is a help. I'm surprised that the SEC didn't put the 25% in the media.

man_no_plan

deiseindublin wrote: »

In a way the 25% sounds great but it's nonsense. Lets pretend you're doing great and getting €8 a paper, so €2 extra, of which revenue etc take 2/3 for most full time teachers so you get an extra 66c x maybe 100 papers. €66 really is nothing in the scheme of things over a 4 week commitment.

I think we need to get over revenue when we correct exams.

If we were to work in Penney's or wherever tax would still have to be paid. If you can take 2k for 3 week's work that's good money in anyone's language. The PRD is another story now, that's gone next year though?

mtoutlemonde

man_no_plan wrote: »

I think we need to get over revenue when we correct exams.

If we were to work in Penney's or wherever tax would still have to be paid. If you can take 2k for 3 week's work that's good money in anyone's language. The PRD is another story now, that's gone next year though?

And the benefit for your teaching is far more beneficial. It is hard work though ... but once you keep going and meeting deadlines you'll get there. One thing I find though it doesn't seem to be of much interest to prospective employers ... could be wrong.

deiseindublin

Well, first off it's 4 weeks work, 1 or 2 day conference and then 26 days correcting.

Anyway, my point is more that the 25% 'extra' won't really motivate anybody because it's so minuscule when you actually get your hands on it.

Also, I don't know anybody pulling €2k out of it.

Postgrad10

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

And the benefit for your teaching is far more beneficial. It is hard work though ... but once you keep going and meeting deadlines you'll get there. One thing I find though it doesn't seem to be of much interest to prospective employers ... could be wrong.

I've noticed that too. I get bemused looks if I bring it up at interview. Once in a face to face chat with my principal. Sure anyone can examine I was told by one.

evolving_doors

Postgrad10 wrote: »

I've noticed that too. I get bemused looks if I bring it up at interview. Once in a face to face chat with my principal. Sure anyone can examine I was told by one.

I think It can help hone your teaching towards better grades. I've tried telling people stuff who haven't corrected and they feign interest but never change, also they wouldn't bother reading examiner reports.... so there's definitely an apathy towards it.

Postgrad10

I definately think so and that every teacher should do it at least once in their subject area.

spurious

Postgrad10 wrote: »

I definately think so and that every teacher should do it at least once in their subject area.

I think so too. If only to be aware of what the examiners are looking for.

It made a huge difference to my teaching. It helps especially for the weaker students who are not fond of (or sometimes capable of) writing long accounts, where you can teach them strategies to write less, but still get the marks.

r93kaey5p2izun

I have to say I found no benefit to my teaching from marking Maths.

deiseindublin

I used to teach maths to very weak kids and they definitely benefited from me telling them to write 180 on any question with a triangle, or 360 if they saw a circle etc, instead of a blank space, at least they got attempt marks instead of zeros.

Moody_mona

deiseindublin wrote: »

I used to teach maths to very weak kids and they definitely benefited from me telling them to write 180 on any question with a triangle, or 360 if they saw a circle etc, instead of a blank space, at least they got attempt marks instead of zeros.

Yea I was just about to say something similar. Maybe it doesn't help my "teaching" but it definitely helps my students. Things like 180, units, drawing on diagrams, substituting into a formula etc can wrack up a few extra marks.

r93kaey5p2izun

But that's all common knowledge - lots of students ignore it no matter how many times they're told but I don't know any teacher who wouldn't emphasise those points all the time. I found there was absolutely no "inside" information or tips to be gained from marking Maths that aren't freely available in the marking schemes. I hear all the time from those marking other subjects that you learn a lot more about what "they're" looking for, but I did not find that to be the case at all for Maths. I did it purely as professional experience and would never do it again because it was pretty much worthless in that regard. I applied for my other subject in the hope it would be more beneficial but didn't get accepted.

mtoutlemonde

Postgrad10 wrote: »

I've noticed that too. I get bemused looks if I bring it up at interview. Once in a face to face chat with my principal. Sure anyone can examine I was told by one.

Well it's true these days- 3 unqualified/non teachers in my group.

man_no_plan

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Well it's true these days- 3 unqualified/non teachers in my group.

I think that anyone who marks is tuned in to the exams and knows what the standard is. They can say with reasonable confidence where a student stands and could give better direction to the students on the edges of grade boundaries about what would finish out their answers better to get a bit of a lift in marks.

It's better professional development than a lot of courses teachers head off on.

doc_17

Postgrad10 wrote: »

I definately think so and that every teacher should do it at least once in their subject area.

I disagree profoundly until it is paid at a proper rate!

happywithlife

Moody_mona wrote: »

Yea I was just about to say something similar. Maybe it doesn't help my "teaching" but it definitely helps my students. Things like 180, units, drawing on diagrams, substituting into a formula etc can wrack up a few extra marks.

I mark and agree it defintely adds to my ability to prepare students for exams.
Its the little nuance in my subject at least where I can show students techniques how to maximise marks even if writing very little because they didn't revise that topic / they're running out of time etc.
100% colleagues feel there's invaluable "insider knowledge " for the coursework area at least which on the flip side is not right either because if you are not in a position to mark its unfair you & your students are disadvantaged because its such a closed shop