"Your phone call is being recorded for training and quality purposes"

Kivaro

So here's the deal: I do not want to be recorded.
It's not that I have a thick Irish brogue, or a lisp, or a high-pitched voice; it's just I do not want to be recorded for privacy reasons.

It's almost constant now when you ring up a service company and immediately told you are being recording for training and quality purposes. On the last 2 occasions when I said that I would prefer not to be recorded, I was told that the call would have to end and they would not be able to help me further. The tone of the conversation was politeness on both sides.

While understanding that for regulatory purposes, some phone calls to some providers may need to be recorded, but it seems that the vast majority of them are doing it now. When I emailed one service provider about their need for them to record every interaction with them, I asked them the pertinent questions like: how long they kept our recordings, how they protect those recordings, are the recordings provided to their partners etc. etc. And then there's the security issue e.g. voice is sometimes used for authentication on phone calls for access to account information, which is great, but what I would like is the choice of being recorded or not.

Maybe it should be a question for the Data Protection Commissioner to take up.

wexie

Kivaro wrote: »

Swhich is great, but what I would like is the choice of being recorded or not.

Then deal in either email or snail mail (if possible). Aside from that I think you're unlikely to find a company willing to agree.

bear1

Let's say you call up a company and tell them you were given false information and you want to be compensated etc because of it.
If the call isn't recorded, how is the company going to back up what you claim? Or then again how will you back it up?
The recording is there to confirm word for word what has happened and no ****wittery can be done by both the caller and the company.
I see no issue with it, take it up with the DPC... I suspect they will tell you the call has been recorded and hang up.

Dravokivich

Chances are it's likely saying you "may" be recorded. It'll take an insane amount of storage to record every call and maintain those recordings.

Where I work, 1 of the lines have an opt out for recording. But in general only about 15% of the calls are recorded and its specifically for assessing agent performance.

You can't do that sitting down beside them, because they'll put on a show of being better than they are.

It's got very little to do with you.

kowtow

Years ago I had a long call with the Inland Revenue (HMRC) which began with such a recording.

After 35 minutes I was so frustrated that when I got through instead of the minor tax matter I had intended to discuss I asked them to tell me everything there was to know about the quality porpoises they were training, and what they were to be used for. I walked them through a long list of the functions of tax inspectors and asked which of those functions could be carried out by marine life (no matter how well trained..)... etc. etc.

The call was enormous fun, although I can't remember much of the detail now.

I suppose I could ask them for the recording.

Sonics2k

They say it's for training and quality purposes, which is only partially true.

In reality it's more of a security measure, just in case a customer claims an agent was abusive/lied/mis-sold, or vice versa.


Source: Me, I'm one of the people responsible for phone training in the company I work for.

ec18

you could ask the data commissioner to check it's validity or if it infringes upon GDPR

murpho999

What privacy issue would anyone have ringing a service?

I'm always amazed how uptight people get about privacy, especially if they have nothing to hide.

Do you think the call will be played all over the office, placed on the internet or sold to the media?

Dravokivich

kowtow wrote: »

Years ago I had a long call with the Inland Revenue (HMRC) which began with such a recording.

After 35 minutes I was so frustrated that when I got through instead of the minor tax matter I had intended to discuss I asked them to tell me everything there was to know about the quality porpoises they were training, and what they were to be used for. I walked them through a long list of the functions of tax inspectors and asked which of those functions could be carried out by marine life (no matter how well trained..)... etc. etc.

The call was enormous fun, although I can't remember much of the detail now.

I suppose I could ask them for the recording.

It's primarily focused on soft skills such as how to deal with difficult callers. Then there's the quality of detail they provide. A call such as yours, I wouldn't expect anyone where I work to answer. It's not for them to do so. They provide a service and should be able to control the call on the basis of that service.

wexie

murpho999 wrote: »

Do you think the call will be played all over the office, placed on the internet or sold to the media?

Plenty of examples of this happening all over the internet.

Usually when either the customer or the agent is a complete plonker though.

haskellgeek

request through gdpr all recordings be deleted for you, ask who is there data controller and request it from them http://gdprandyou.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Rights-of-Individuals-under-the-General-Data-Protection-Regulation.pdf

arybvtcw0eolkf

You could put on a different voice every time.

The craic you could have being Mister Bean today and Dracula or Hannible the next.

dr.fuzzenstein

wexie wrote: »

Then deal in either email or snail mail (if possible). Aside from that I think you're unlikely to find a company willing to agree.

And of course those letters and emails are being kept and archived, so if OP doesn't want a record of his intractions with any company, he has one choice.
Not to do business with any company that require any dealings over phone, letter or email.
The only choice OP has is to walk into a brick and mortar shop and pay cash.
He may want to ask them to turn off the CCTV first, so that he is not being recorded. Or go in wearing a veil.
He could hire an intermediary agent to act on his behalf to conduct any business dealings for him.
Of course when OP is trying this hard to hide his dealings, he may arouse the suspicion of law enforcement agencies as to what he is hiding.
Or OP could start to live off-grid. No bills, no official registration and conduct all his dealings in his immediate sourroundings through a barter system.

Sterling Archer

If you don't want to be recorded don't ring in it's very straight forward, but in this day and age you can't avoid it.

Calls are recorded for training to show good and bad was to deal with interactions
And for quality checks on agents work
And for security reason, the amount of people who call in and flat of lie about what someone else told them is crazy
It very easy to prove who is correct when there is a recording

The exact same is true for emails, emails are also kept and all the above apply, it's very easy prove who is right when it is in black and white
And again the same for web chats.

It's the exact same as a store having CCTV and in some cases audio enabled CCTV

Source - too many years in a call centre as an agent, trainer and lead.

kellsred

Just record every call with them yourself.

"This call may be recorded for the purposes of my own amusement"

wexie

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Or OP could start to live off-grid. No bills, no official registration and conduct all his dealings in his immediate sourroundings through a barter system.

Leitrim it is so :pac:

Sterling Archer

kellsred wrote: »

Just record every call with them yourself.

"This call may be recorded for the purposes of my own amusement"

Good attempt but it won't work..
If you record the call yourself and don't inform them you break the law (in a way)

If you say "I'm recording this call" they do not have to consent and can end the call

Dravokivich

Shane_ef wrote: »

Good attempt but it won't work..
If you record the call yourself and don't inform them you break the law (in a way)

If you say "I'm recording this call" they do not have to consent and can end the call

Huh? Where did you hear that. Generally at least one person needs to be aware the call is being recorded. If you are recording it, you're aware of it. I'd hate to think you don't consent to much things you do of your own violation.

Seth Brundle

kowtow wrote: »

Years ago I had a long call with the Inland Revenue (HMRC) which began with such a recording.

After 35 minutes I was so frustrated that when I got through instead of the minor tax matter I had intended to discuss I asked them to tell me everything there was to know about the quality porpoises they were training, and what they were to be used for. I walked them through a long list of the functions of tax inspectors and asked which of those functions could be carried out by marine life (no matter how well trained..)... etc. etc.

The call was enormous fun, although I can't remember much of the detail now.

I suppose I could ask them for the recording.

Squatter

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And of course those letters and emails are being kept and archived, so if OP doesn't want a record of his intractions with any company, he has one choice.
Not to do business with any company that require any dealings over phone, letter or email.
The only choice OP has is to walk into a brick and mortar shop and pay cash.
He may want to ask them to turn off the CCTV first, so that he is not being recorded. Or go in wearing a veil.
He could hire an intermediary agent to act on his behalf to conduct any business dealings for him.
Of course when OP is trying this hard to hide his dealings, he may arouse the suspicion of law enforcement agencies as to what he is hiding.
Or OP could start to live off-grid. No bills, no official registration and conduct all his dealings in his immediate sourroundings through a barter system.

And should such an individual be posting on boards.ie?

After all, it is widely known that the CIA, MI6, Mossad, the PSNI, the Special Branch and the KGB keep detailed records of every boards.ie poster.

wexie

Squatter wrote: »

And should such an individual be posting on boards.ie?

After all, it is widely known that the CIA, MI6, Mossad, the PSNI, the Special Branch and the KGB keep detailed records of every boards.ie poster.

Forgot the JIDF!!!! Or perhaps they're covered under Mossad?

razorblunt

kowtow wrote: »

Years ago I had a long call with the Inland Revenue (HMRC) which began with such a recording.

After 35 minutes I was so frustrated that when I got through instead of the minor tax matter I had intended to discuss I asked them to tell me everything there was to know about the quality porpoises they were training, and what they were to be used for. I walked them through a long list of the functions of tax inspectors and asked which of those functions could be carried out by marine life (no matter how well trained..)... etc. etc.

The call was enormous fun, although I can't remember much of the detail now.

I suppose I could ask them for the recording.

I'd say the tape is worn out from them playing it back and laughing at you.

dr.fuzzenstein

Squatter wrote: »

And should such an individual be posting on boards.ie?

After all, it is widely known that the CIA, MI6, Mossad, the PSNI, the Special Branch and the KGB keep detailed records of every boards.ie poster.

Reati

murpho999 wrote: »

Do you think the call will be played all over the office, placed on the internet or sold to the media?

Isn't this how they trained Google Duplex? Off support call data they bought?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Kivaro wrote: »

So here's the deal: I do not want to be recorded.
It's not that I have a thick Irish brogue

What's wrong with having an Irish brogue?

BrokenArrows

I used to work in tech support. Our call line said that but we didnt actually record anything.

I doubt they record every call. They may occasionally turn on recording from time to time to train people as they say or to review the quality of service.

Billy86

Call recording is really, really important and is typically to the customers benefit. A few years ago I worked in insurance and this is the only way they could prove someone was putting everyone's excess at €1000 or as high as possible without notifying them, or intentionally leaving out claims or inputting the details of them incorrectly (and consistently) in order to get a better price and make more sales.

In another company I worked for, it was about the only way they were able to fend off several huge lawsuits thanks to other dodgy moves by their sales staff.

Thank jaysus for call recording.

irishgirl19

If you don't like being recorded then don't call. Its for your protection as much as theirs.
I was missold health insurance before and they wouldn't pay out on the claim. Once I asked they review the call then they did after listening to it.
I also work reviewing calls where a customer is disputing what they were advised. Sometimes the agent is wrong, sometimes the customer remembers wrong.

Grayson

Sonics2k wrote: »

They say it's for training and quality purposes, which is only partially true.

In reality it's more of a security measure, just in case a customer claims an agent was abusive/lied/mis-sold, or vice versa.


Source: Me, I'm one of the people responsible for phone training in the company I work for.

In all the call centres I worked in it was used for quality and training. Every week at least two calls for every agent were listened to. The calls were kinda chosen at random. I say kinda because the analysts had to get through a lot so they wouldn't listen to the longest calls. The agent was graded on it and if they failed they got extra training for it. And everything was recorded, not just the call, the agents screen was recorded so they analysts could see every single click they made and every page they saw.

If your company didn't do that, it just had a crap QA system.

Also, someone mentioned that it takes up a large amount of space. It actually doesn't. It's a tiny amount. Space is really cheap now. And the larger the company, with the greater call volume, the more they can afford.

r93kaey5p2izun

I expect it when calling large companies but was surprised to hear a recorded message notifying me of call recording now at my local vets. Doesn't bother me. Sure aren't we all being recorded by our phones and smart tvs now anyway. (I don't actually know where the line between conspiracy theory and reality lies on that anymore)

fancy pigeon

Me and the trade counter have the weirdest conversations if one was to listen in to our recorded calls...

Now how to use those for quality and training purposes!

Akrasia

Call recording in financial services is essential and anywhere where you might be engaging in contractual agreements over the phone (including tech support calls where the agent on behalf of the company agrees to a replacement or repair as a resolution to a complaint)

If you don't have a record of the phone call, everything comes down to 'your word against theirs' and there is just as much of an incentive for a member of the public to lie about what they said as there is for an agent to misrepresent the facts to close a sale or close a support ticket.

All calls are recorded in a call center, and also every call is manually logged and the agent will write a summary of the query on a tracker so that the next time that customer calls, the next agent will know at least a high level description of what the customer is calling about.

Grayson

Jeffrey Nutty Vaccine wrote: »

I expect it when calling large companies but was surprised to hear a recorded message notifying me of call recording now at my local vets. Doesn't bother me. Sure aren't we all being recorded by our phones and smart tvs now anyway. (I don't actually know where the line between conspiracy theory and reality lies on that anymore)

My dentist has it too

As for the last part, yes.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/feb/27/samsung-voice-recording-smart-tv-breach-privacy-law-campaigners-claim

I'm wondering how much amazon is recording from alexa.

Edit: Alexa is recording you and it has even mailed the transcripts to randomers.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/24/alexa_recording_couple/

banie01

Dravokivich wrote: »

Chances are it's likely saying you "may" be recorded. It'll take an insane amount of storage to record every call and maintain those recordings.

Where I work, 1 of the lines have an opt out for recording. But in general only about 15% of the calls are recorded and its specifically for assessing agent performance.

You can't do that sitting down beside them, because they'll put on a show of being better than they are.

It's got very little to do with you.

I work for a Utility provider and deal with quality.
in my particular company all calls are recorded as well as all screen interactions made by the operator during the call.
They are archived and searchable via a multitude of options.
Storage isn't an issue, the archival and ensuring GDPR compliance however is.

To the O.P any call or interaction with a Utility/ Service could result in a change to pricing or commitment periods.
As such the call is recorded as it is proof of contract, similar situation with regard the company being able to review employee interactions to ensure standards are met.

bennyl10

Dravokivich wrote: »

Huh? Where did you hear that. Generally at least one person needs to be aware the call is being recorded. If you are recording it, you're aware of it. I'd hate to think you don't consent to much things you do of your own violation.

It's why they ahve to tell you at the start of a call that it's being recorded.. both parties need to consent to the recording

GhostyMcGhost

murpho999 wrote: »

What privacy issue would anyone have ringing a service?

I'm always amazed how uptight people get about privacy, especially if they have nothing to hide.

Do you think the call will be played all over the office, placed on the internet or sold to the media?

Stuff like this does happen though....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV7SXmHq0Bk

mayotom

I record all of my calls, it really doesn't take up a lot of storage

AudreyHepburn

You’d think calm centers were off shoots of MI5 or Mossad the way some people go on!

Call recording is done for training and verification and also for both customer and company protection and it’s as simple as that. No funny business, no ulterior motives.

If you don’t want to be recorded then you need only say so - your call will likely not be dealt and the company would be well within the rights to do so as it’s required by CPC.

Dravokivich

mayotom wrote: »

I record all of my calls, it really doesn't take up a lot of storage

Your own calls. In a call centre there is a large number of agents with a lot of time on phones.

Maybe some have a better system than ours. But without going into too much detail I'm in a multinational and a client wanted 100% recording, it didn't happen primarily because of the costs for storage.

Dravokivich

bennyl10 wrote: »

It's why they ahve to tell you at the start of a call that it's being recorded.. both parties need to consent to the recording

That's merely a courtesy. The only one that needs to consent is the agent. Of your afraid of a call centre having data from the call you made, it's be quite odd, as you'd likely already be a customer and the company will already have data on you. Previously provided by you or based upon the service sold to you.

mayotom

Dravokivich wrote: »

mayotom wrote: »

I record all of my calls, it really doesn't take up a lot of storage

Your own calls. In a call centre there is a large number of agents with a lot of time on phones.

Maybe some have a better system than ours. But without going into too much detail I'm in a multinational and a client wanted 100% recording, it didn't happen primarily because of the costs for storage.

True, call time must be enormous.

I've recorded all calls on my mobile for a couple of years now. I have had several occasions where they have been useful like with mobile phone companies overcharging, saying I agreed to certain tariffs etc.

banie01

Dravokivich wrote: »

.

Maybe some have a better system than ours. But without going into too much detail I'm in a multinational and a client wanted 100% recording, it didn't happen primarily because of the costs for storage.

It is a significant cost to a business but in our case it is offset by the money saved on settlement in your word/our word situations.

If a company is dealing with large customer volumes and contract or pricing changes can be initiated by phone, it really is a huge cost saving for any high volume call centre when offset against "goodwill" credits to account that are often the means of resolving those situations.

Roger_007

About a year ago I got a call from my mobile provider offering me a free months basic charge if I signed up for an extention of my contract. After the usual exchanges about the call bein recorded and explanation of T&Cs I agreed.
The only problem was, I was as drunk as a skunk having spent the day at a christening and its aftermath.
I forgot all about the call until I received my next bill and some documentation about a month later, (after the cooling off period).
I was tempted to contest my verbal agreement with them on the grounds that I was somewhat 'incapacitated' at the time. It would have been obvious from the recording that I wasn't fully capable at the time. In the end, I didn't, but I wonder if I could have?

Dravokivich

banie01 wrote: »

It is a significant cost to a business but in our case it is offset by the money saved on settlement in your word/our word situations.

If a company is dealing with large customer volumes and contract or pricing changes can be initiated by phone, it really is a huge cost saving for any high volume call centre when offset against "goodwill" credits to account that are often the means of resolving those situations.

We dont do sales. Purely support for clients, not on their behalf to public.

murpho999

wexie wrote: »

Plenty of examples of this happening all over the internet.

Usually when either the customer or the agent is a complete plonker though.

Haven't seem many myself, but then again I don't like for them.

I doubt that the people are identifiable from them though.

Billy86

Jeffrey Nutty Vaccine wrote: »

I expect it when calling large companies but was surprised to hear a recorded message notifying me of call recording now at my local vets. Doesn't bother me. Sure aren't we all being recorded by our phones and smart tvs now anyway. (I don't actually know where the line between conspiracy theory and reality lies on that anymore)

Try this... if you are home alone, or have a quiet space like your own office in work, talk about something you have never talked about before. Anything, even just a random country... say the name of it a few times, maybe some places within it and so on, and some things you might do on holidays. Then begin to google it, and watch those search terms autofill as if you have looked it up a hundred times before.

I'll often listen to a podcast called 'We Hate Movies' on the way to sleep that takes the piss out of bad or cheesy films. Occasionally they'll mention an actor whose name rings a bell but that I just can't put a face to, so I'll google them while half asleep, and without fail they seem to somehow autofill within just 1-2 letter of their first name. A few weeks back it was Wilfred Brimley, days before the World Cup started which I had been googling a lot, and yet somehow putting in the letter 'W' didn't bring up anything on that, but a random actor whose career took place mainly in the 80s and before, and who has basically been retired for 20 years with just three small roles in that time.

Kivaro

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Of course when OP is trying this hard to hide his dealings, he may arouse the suspicion of law enforcement agencies as to what he is hiding.

What an odd response.
I'll put it down to your lack of understanding of basic privacy concerns and lack of knowledge on how your data is shared and protected. But in this day and age where people share every aspect of their lives on Facebook and other social media platforms, it doesn't surprise me that this type hysteria is exhibited when questions are asked dealing with privacy.

A lot of interesting experiences and relevant stories shared by others; some of which are thought provoking. I wouldn't be surprised if the data protection commissioner takes a look at the topic at some stage in the future; especially in light of GDPR.

ZeRoY

Dravokivich wrote: »

It's primarily focused on soft skills such as how to deal with difficult callers. Then there's the quality of detail they provide. A call such as yours, I wouldn't expect anyone where I work to answer. It's not for them to do so. They provide a service and should be able to control the call on the basis of that service.

Not in my experience. Companies use the pretext of quality and training purposes (which it is a small part used for) but the real goal is to have a recording of every call to use if needs be to prove a customer dishonesty - and this happens a lot!

dr.fuzzenstein

Kivaro wrote: »

What an odd response.
I'll put it down to your lack of understanding of basic privacy concerns and lack of knowledge on how your data is shared and protected. But in this day and age where people share every aspect of their lives on Facebook and other social media platforms, it doesn't surprise me that this type hysteria is exhibited when questions are asked dealing with privacy.

A lot of interesting experiences and relevant stories shared by others; some of which are thought provoking. I wouldn't be surprised if the data protection commissioner takes a look at the topic at some stage in the future; especially in light of GDPR.

Out of my entire post you found that bit odd? We have a bit of Poe's law here, because I didn't add :P;):p:D to my post.

seamus

Kivaro wrote: »

A lot of interesting experiences and relevant stories shared by others; some of which are thought provoking. I wouldn't be surprised if the data protection commissioner takes a look at the topic at some stage in the future; especially in light of GDPR.

I'm sure the data protection commissioner already has robust guidelines on it.

Ultimately if you do business with a company, then they need to be able to record the details of your dealings with them. If you ask them to make a change to your account, they need to have a record of that.

It's unreasonable to ask to be able to do business with a company and insist that they make no record of that business. In fact, it's probably illegal for a company to not record it.

Your paranoia about data sharing it largely unwarranted, since your interactions with any EU-based business are private by default. They can use the calls for training purposes, but only internally. They can't be shared externally.

If you're really that worried about it, you can write to the company and insist that any of your calls which are being used for training, are removed from their training manifest.

That email will then be anonymised and used as an example of a "difficult customer". But your phone calls won't be used for training any more.

Kivaro

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Out of my entire post you found that bit odd? We have a bit of Poe's law here, because I didn't add :P;):p:D to my post.

Sorry Dr. F.
The result of late night boards browsing ..... and following up many hours later.
Your post was quite good.

seamus wrote: »

It's unreasonable to ask to be able to do business with a company and insist that they make no record of that business. In fact, it's probably illegal for a company to not record it.

I never asked for that. Maybe you could show where I did.

seamus wrote: »

Your paranoia about data sharing it largely unwarranted, since your interactions with any EU-based business are private by default. They can use the calls for training purposes, but only internally. They can't be shared externally.

Can you prove that this is indeed the case; especially prior to GDPR being enacted.