Coral Eclipse 2018

BumperD

That finish in the 7:20 race at bellewstown was mental, some in running prices

Mgoraf

Mendelssohn well beaten

tryfix

Mgoraf wrote: »

Mendelssohn well beaten

The Meydan bubble is well burst at this stage. Having said that an O'Brien yoke making a comeback like that in Ireland could come out next time and turn the form right round.

Francie Barrett

That was beyond awful. One mile on fast ground against very poor opposition and it look like it died a death.

Mgoraf

Camelot gets another group 1 winner with Athena

Dr. Bre

Mendelsgone

tryfix

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Mendelsgone

Or is he? O'Brien training on the track again?

"It was a good-run race," said assistant trainer T.J. Comerford, who saddled Mendelssohn for owners Michael Tabor, Susan Magnier, and Derrick Smith in the absence of trainer Aidan O'Brien. "Aidan was very happy with him, he watched it at home. He thinks it was a great start since (the Kentucky Derby), and he thinks we can build on it."

Mendelssohn won the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf (G1T) last year, but Comerford does not expect a change of surface or alterations to the long-term plans for the son of Scat Daddy, who is expected to run in both the Pennsylvania Derby (G1) Sept. 22 at Parx and the Breeders' Cup Classic (G1) Nov. 3 at Churchill Downs.

"I'd say the Breeders' Cup Classic is still the ultimate goal, but he has a lot of bridges to cross before then," Comerford said. "I thought it was a good run on the dirt. We can't keep stopping and starting. It was a good steppingstone for the next one."

Jockey Ryan Moore said he expects Mendelssohn to move forward off his first race since May 5.

"He ran a nice race for his first run in two months," Moore said. "I expect him to come forward from this today. He was comfortable, he jumped well, and he just felt like he'd improve off how he ran today."

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/228428/firenze-fire-dominant-in-dwyer-stakes

Mgoraf

Can get 10s for Saxon warrior for the Sussex stakes. Think that could be a great bet as wouldn't be surprised if they target him at that next.

Mgoraf

Gustav klimt fav for the group 1 in France. Shocked at how big olmedo is. I had him as fav. A non stayer in the French derby back to a mile surely he is over priced

tryfix

Mgoraf wrote: »

Gustav klimt fav for the group 1 in France. Shocked at how big olmedo is. I had him as fav. A non stayer in the French derby back to a mile surely he is over priced

The French Derby 4th Intellogent wins there and once again Gustav Klimt places rather than wins in a Gp1. The curse of his breeding is holding back Gustav whose 3yo career very much mirrors his full brother Mars who would place in all the big races but never seal the deal in one.

That French Derby form is looking good and Without Parole's overhyped defeat of Gustav Klimt in the St James Palace Stakes has had much of the gloss knocked off it with today's result.

Mgoraf

Olmedo was awful

Don't know what to think of Gustav. Hard horse to gauge what he needs. Step up in trip? Can imagine they'll move him on somewhere

Without parole will be put in his place by Saxon warrior when they meet.

kiers47

I think ye are underestimating how good without parole was in ascot. The race was over with about 2furlongs to go. He ended up in front way to soon and Frankie had to just send him on. I don't think you can use that run as a stick to beat him with.
I'm a huge Saxon Warrior fan and I've been banging the staying to a mile drum on here since well before the Guinness. But he still has more to prove now coming back to the mile than WP has.
I couldn't envisage having a bet at the current prices and likely what they are going to be on the day though.

Tbh I think it's arguable the best miler this year has been a colt I think I'd have Alpha Centaurai to beat both of them.

tryfix

kiers47 wrote: »

I think ye are underestimating how good without parole was in ascot. The race was over with about 2furlongs to go. He ended up in front way to soon and Frankie had to just send him on. I don't think you can use that run as a stick to beat him with.
I'm a huge Saxon Warrior fan and I've been banging the staying to a mile drum on here since well before the Guinness. But he still has more to prove now coming back to the mile than WP has.
I couldn't envisage having a bet at the current prices and likely what they are going to be on the day though.

Tbh I think it's arguable the best miler this year has been a colt I think I'd have Alpha Centaurai to beat both of them.

At the time of Without Parole's SJP win I said I was now a believer after he delivered the goods, with the qualifier that the close presence of Gustav Klimt to him on the day called into question the validity of the win and Gustav went and predictably ran another one-paced staying on placed effort today at Deauville where he was beaten further than at Ascot )

On bare form Without Parole is no superstar ( a 1/2 L beating of Gustav Klimt should not be the kind of form that screams champion miler ) , but with a trainer like Gosden he can improve on that bare form. He is likely to be very lucky in that the all-aged competition for races like the Sussex Stakes is extremely weak this year with glorified handicappers taking the Queen Anne at Ascot. As it stands Without Parole stands at OR 119 ( a pound or two below the kind of usual SJP winner ) and Alpha Centauri stands at OR 122 ( equivalent to a 125 run for a colt when the 3lb sex allowance is taken into account ).

I'm not too sure about Alpha Centauri backing up her amazing Ascot win, I hope she does but Ascot is a track where queer things happen that don't get repeated elsewhere.

kiers47

tryfix wrote: »

At the time of Without Parole's SJP win I said I was now a believer after he delivered the goods, with the qualifier that the close presence of Gustav Klimt to him on the day called into question the validity of the win and Gustav went and predictably ran another one-paced staying on placed effort today at Deauville where he was beaten further than at Ascot )

On bare form Without Parole is no superstar ( a 1/2 L beating of Gustav Klimt should not be the kind of form that screams champion miler ) , but with a trainer like Gosden he can improve on that bare form. He is likely to be very lucky in that the all-aged competition for races like the Sussex Stakes is extremely weak this year with glorified handicappers taking the Queen Anne at Ascot. As it stands Without Parole stands at OR 119 ( a pound or two below the kind of usual SJP winner ) and Alpha Centauri stands at OR 122 ( equivalent to a 125 run for a colt when the 3lb sex allowance is taken into account ).

I'm not too sure about Alpha Centauri backing up her amazing Ascot win, I hope she does but Ascot is a track where queer things happen that don't get repeated elsewhere.

You could be right on Alpha Centauri she was mightily impressive though.

On Without Parole the point I was getting at was I don't think the half length winning margin was a fair reflection of how much better he was than Gustav Klimpt and the rest. He got a bit tired in the final furlong which is understandable with how the race panned out to me.

tryfix

kiers47 wrote: »

You could be right on Alpha Centauri she was mightily impressive though.

On Without Parole the point I was getting at was I don't think the half length winning margin was a fair reflection of how much better he was than Gustav Klimpt and the rest. He got a bit tired in the final furlong which is understandable with how the race panned out to me.

Well she's out again in the Falmouth so she's probably still firing on all cylinders. That 122 for a miler filly is a very high rating so here's hoping she can live up to it.

I'd disagree with you on how much better than Gustav Without Parole was at Ascot, the bare facts are there and Gustav is just like his brother Mars was, capable of placing against the highest of company over a a range of trips from 8f to 12f.

Without Parole is potentially an awful lot better than GK, the race result reminded me a little of Frankel's SJP win but that's being sentimental on account of the breeding. Frankel almost blew that race, Without Parole had a near perfect run through the race.


Gustav has very little scope to improve radically, he's a smallish colt who doesn't look like he's ever going to get much bigger or stronger. Without Parole is an exceptional looking specimen with the physique of a champion and his pedigree is also exceptional as he's a half brother to a miler and now sire Tamarkuz. Tamarkuz was a pure 7-8f type with a DI of 2.11, Without Parole has Frankel putting his stamina influence into WP's DI of 0.76. This lad could run over 8-12f equally effectively, he'd probably be best suited by a stiff 10f.

Mgoraf

Looks like they're going to aim Gustav at the Sussex and Saxon at the juddemonte.

I think You were right kiers that Saxon warrior would be a top miler. I think now they should definitely go and clean up with him over the mile division.

tryfix

They're sending US Navy Flag to the July Cup on Saturday. Would love to see him burst to the front and repel all challenges, 'twould make a great sight anyway.