Tour de France 2018 - General Thread

MPFGLB

Deleted User wrote: »

Have the ASO been crafty here a bit though? They have made rumblings for ages about the case but today is the first we've heard the foot come down, and 6 days to go before the start. They likely knew Sky would lawyer up and limited the time they had for appeals and courts a CAS etc.

I'd like to see the Vuelta tell him not to bother thinking about a defence if he doesn't ride the tour which would likely be his plan B

So where does that leave him? Uncharted territory to either actually ride other bike races late season like Poland, Austria, Worlds or Turkey or sit pretty till a ban is served or not.

One of the reasons why I'd like so see Nibali win is because he rides more than a GT and a few warm up races a year. I've little time for the pure GT GC men. There's even a few in Team Sky I'd cheer to win, not Thomas though.

ASO couldn't put their foot down as you say until SKY named their Tour team

ASO also own the Vuelta

Macy0161

Deleted User wrote: »

Have the ASO been crafty here a bit though? They have made rumblings for ages about the case but today is the first we've heard the foot come down, and 6 days to go before the start. They likely knew Sky would lawyer up and limited the time they had for appeals and courts a CAS etc.

I think so. Trying to minimise time for the CAS appeal. Direct opposite strategy to Sky and the failed test adverse analystical finding.

Mixed results for them in the past trying this though. Managed to exclude Astana as a whole, but lost an appeal when they tried to exclude Tommeke for an out of competition (therefore not technically a doping) cocaine positive.

I really hope they do manage it. Bad enough 3 weeks of "How would it have played out with Froome/ would Froome have won" but that is miles better than the 3 weeks of should he be here (or not)/ will it stand (or not)/ potential incidents on the road. Probably for Froome and Sky themselves as well, if they take a more objective view.

1bryan

MPFGLB wrote: »

How do you mean ?
He hung on to a car at Vuelta and was DQS for it

Many have done that including Froome who held on to a car at Giro before he became a worldbeater and was DQS as well ....
Demare did it on his way to winning MSR

Footballers 'cheat' and are sent off and then play again ..

So please tell me how Nibali is a cheat and does not deserve to win

whatever about whether he's a cheat or not, or whether he deserves to win or not, I certainly wouldn't like to see him win.

Isn't he in that unique group of riders who threatened legal action against other riders for something they said? Can't recall the exact details but I remember there was chat here about it at the time and how there was general consensus that any riders who have done this in the past (Froome, Aru, Nibali), shot themselves up the unpopularity rankings after doing so.

odyssey06

Playing devil's advocate here.
Froome has won the TDF and is the yellow jersey holder. He just competed and won the Giro, one of the grand tours.
His participation is within UCI regulations.

I don't see how Froome's presence in this year's TDF would "damage the image or reputation of ASO or the event".

Would anyone really think less of the ASO or TDF for Froome racing?

Macy0161

odyssey06 wrote: »

I don't see how Froome's presence in this year's TDF would "damage the image or reputation of ASO or the event".

Would anyone really think less of the ASO or TDF for Froome racing?

Coverage is going to be dominated by the Froome case, just as the stage race season to date has, therefore taking away from the event. Should he win, it's an immediate asterisk, regardless of the final verdict. Sky must be contributing to how long it's taking to resolve, too.

I see Marc Madiot has again asked the rhetorical question as to why Sky won't join the MPCC. I don't know whether their still sticking to the "we work to higher standards" line...

odyssey06

Macy0161 wrote: »

Coverage is going to be dominated by the Froome case, just as the stage race season to date has, therefore taking away from the event. Should he win, it's an immediate asterisk, regardless of the final verdict. Sky must be contributing to how long it's taking to resolve, too.

Is there not already an immediate asterisk given that he's the reigning TDF champion?
If you exclude him even though UCI say he can race, you have put the asterisk on your defending champion.

Macy0161

odyssey06 wrote: »

Is there not already an immediate asterisk given that he's the reigning TDF champion?
If you exclude him even though UCI say he can race, you have put the asterisk on your defending champion.

ASO retains the right to exclude people, as per their agreement with the UCI.

Different, and not allowed, debate about whether Froome already has an asterisk, but if he won this year with the case on-going there would be, as the same as the Giro, we wouldn't know whether he'd keep it.

retalivity

Macy0161 wrote: »

I really hope they do manage it. Bad enough 3 weeks of "How would it have played out with Froome/ would Froome have won" but that is miles better than the 3 weeks of should he be here (or not)/ will it stand (or not)/ potential incidents on the road. Probably for Froome and Sky themselves as well, if they take a more objective view.

If it happens, the Carlton whinge thread will become just that - 3 weeks of him whinging and crying about the unfairness of it all

terrydel

odyssey06 wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate here.
Froome has won the TDF and is the yellow jersey holder. He just competed and won the Giro, one of the grand tours.
His participation is within UCI regulations.

I don't see how Froome's presence in this year's TDF would "damage the image or reputation of ASO or the event".

Would anyone really think less of the ASO or TDF for Froome racing?

The real point is that the reputation of the TDF is probably as low as it could go, given that maybe 2 winners in the last 20 years weren't cheats.

All My Stars Aligned

It wouldn't surprise me to see Sky pull out of the Tour should he not be race (or maybe that's just wishful thinking!).

Hurrache

odyssey06 wrote: »

Would anyone really think less of the ....TDF for Froome racing?

Yes.

dahat

Frome cleared of any wrong doing by WADA, didn't expect this pre Tour.

terrydel

dahat wrote: »

Frome cleared of any wrong doing by WADA, didn't expect this pre Tour.

Depressing. If youve enough money, innocence is never far away.

mr spuckler

dahat wrote: »

Frome cleared of any wrong doing by WADA, didn't expect this pre Tour.

wow, the timing really is remarkable.

dreddie

Froome cleared by UCI. This report is in The Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jul/02/chris-froome-cleared-by-uci-in-anti-doping-investigation

terrydel

dahat wrote: »

Frome cleared of any wrong doing by WADA, didn't expect this pre Tour.

Out of nowhere, whole thing with them and ASO seems highly choreographed.
So as Paul Kimmage has written brilliantly on, again we see that Froome really is a complete freak and one off, normal physiological rules simply dont apply to this complete mutant.

mr spuckler

that piece says that the decision was communicated to the UCI on June 28th, but from what I can see the ASO announcement was on July 1st. surely ASO would have known the decision at that point?

magicbastarder

so what about riders previously banned for adverse salbutamol findings?

terrydel

magicbastarder wrote: »

so what about riders previously banned for adverse salbutamol findings?

Ah but they didnt have froome's alien genetics nor sky's money to keep doing scientific studies til one finally points and possible innocence.

terrydel

mr spuckler wrote: »

that piece says that the decision was communicated to the UCI on June 28th, but from what I can see the ASO announcement was on July 1st. surely ASO would have known the decision at that point?

Course they did, its then very easy to be big and brave and leak that he will be banned knowing you wont have to follow thru on it.
The sport really is beyond redemption.

1bryan

I'd say the share price in salbutamol companies has just shot through the roof. Cyclists everywhere will be loading up on the stuff.

CramCycle

So basically it is a free for all for everyone to use Salbutamol?

The World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) accepted that Froome’s sample results from the 2017 Vuelta a Espa which showed a high level of salbutamol – did not constitute an adverse analytical finding, the UCI said in its statement.

I laughed hardest at this statement because, the simple fact is that it is exactly what an AAF is.

py

This is really disappointing

Borderfox

CramCycle wrote: »

So basically it is a free for all for everyone to use Salbutamol?



I laughed hardest at this statement because, the simple fact is that it is exactly what an AAF is.

So basically it is a free for all for everyone to use Salbutamol? using whatever delivery method they want to

terrydel

Borderfox wrote: »

So basically it is a free for all for everyone to use Salbutamol? using whatever delivery method they want to

Only if youve a bottomless pit of money to fight any resultant legal battles.

Borderfox

How can there be a legal battle when they have set a precedent with saying that Froomes Vuelta reading is not an AAF and what are the previous recipients of bans going to do in light of this?

Weepsie

CramCycle wrote: »

So basically it is a free for all for everyone to use Salbutamol?



I laughed hardest at this statement because, the simple fact is that it is exactly what an AAF is.

Yup the previous banned athletes should be getting straight onto their legal teams as they've opened up a huge can of worms IMO.

terrydel

Borderfox wrote: »

How can there be a legal battle when they have set a precedent with saying that Froomes Vuelta reading is not an AAF and what are the previous recipients of bans going to do in light of this?

I dont know mate, but for me it seems that sky just fought this with their wallet and the uci buckled.
There is no way in God's earth ASO didnt get wind of this before they leaked theyd be banning him, they threw that out knowing they wouldnt ever have to follow thru.
Its so, so depressing.

Mint Sauce

Anyone but Froome or Sky, grew tired of them before the start of the 2017 TdF. All the talk is going to be about them.

1bryan

py wrote: »

This is really disappointing

it's nothing new though. Cycling has a history of chewing up and spitting out fans. We get into the sport with enthusiasm, then scandal after scandal chips away at us until we become cynical old farts.

You have to take cycling with a pinch of salt these days. Like that wrestling sh!te, cos it's about as real. Otherwise it's too much of an emotional drain.