The Sam Quentin click bait thread about drugs

Sam Quentin

I use to think this guy was a bit of a saint and when I see him being interviewed on tv on news programs, chat shows etc... Well I'd say to myself "fair play to him" and stuff like that...
Anyway seems he's lost the plot!? So disappointing......

http://www.thejournal.ie/its-a-no-brainer-lets-decriminalise-fr-peter-mcverry-on-drug-possession-4090380-Jun2018/

Conservatory

Working in town I see a lot of them. Locking them up isn’t going to sober them up what’s the point.

TheValeyard

Maybe he is just taking a common sense approach to it

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I use to think this guy was a bit of a saint and when I see him being interviewed on tv on news programs, chat shows etc... Well I'd say to myself "fair play to him" and stuff like that...
Anyway seems he's lost the plot!? So disappointing......

http://www.thejournal.ie/its-a-no-brainer-lets-decriminalise-fr-peter-mcverry-on-drug-possession-4090380-Jun2018/

No idea who is is but he's dead right. No idea what you're disappointed about, either - Egypt's world cup results, possibly?

Sam Quentin

It's totally incomprehensible to me,.. that some people still have this 'view' that to legalise drugs would make any positive difference in the attitude, actions, criminality, depression etc etc of drug users!?

KKkitty

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I use to think this guy was a bit of a saint and when I see him being interviewed on tv on news programs, chat shows etc... Well I'd say to myself "fair play to him" and stuff like that...
Anyway seems he's lost the plot!? So disappointing......

http://www.thejournal.ie/its-a-no-brainer-lets-decriminalise-fr-peter-mcverry-on-drug-possession-4090380-Jun2018/

Decriminalisation of certain drugs would be a great thing. Less court time being taken up by people who only use cannabis recreationally. Why is decriminalisation of cannabis such a bad thing? You smoke it or whatever, you're chilled out and eat more due to the munchies. You're not harming anyone else. You find the most banal things funny as feck and you go to sleep. What's not to like about it.

policarp

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No idea who is is but he's dead right. No idea what you're disappointed about, either - Egypt's world cup results, possibly?

He has seen an awful lot of stuff we hav'nt seen.

donegal_man

Why are you disappointed OP?

When someone has an alcohol problem we don’t ring the police, we try to get them into treatment. And it’s the exact same thing with drugs such as heroin or crack cocaine. It should be treated as a health problem and not a criminal problem

Seems like a sensible enough idea to me. Prosecuting the small time user for possession is a waste of Garda time and does little more than clog up the courts. He's not just advocating that drugs be legalised and left at that, he wants the use of drugs to be regarded as a medical problem which by it's very nature means addressing the issue of users depression etc. and based on the Portuguese experience would significantly reduce the criminality associated with drug use.

Sam Quentin

policarp wrote: »

He has seen an awful lot of stuff we hav'nt seen.

Aye..
He has an awful lot of empathy and sympathy for certain folks...
He couldn't care less what they've been up to the night before!?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sam Quentin wrote: »

It's totally incomprehensible to me,.. that some people still have this 'view' that to legalise drugs would make any positive difference in the attitude, actions, criminality, depression etc etc of drug users!?

When peopleform their opinions on the dangers of drugs solely on the basis of whether said drug is legal or not, they generally have no idea what they're talking about.

Some dangerous drugs are legal, some illegal ones are relatively safe.

policarp

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No idea who is is but he's dead right. No idea what you're disappointed about, either - Egypt's world cup results, possibly?

He has seen an awful lot of stuff we hav'nt seen.

Sam Quentin

Each time I read or hear somebody wants to legalise drugs! I assume it's a píss take....
Like wtf

donegal_man

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Aye..
He has an awful lot of empathy and sympathy for certain folks...
He couldn't care less what they've been up to the night before!?

I don't understand what you mean by that. He hasn't advocated the legalisation of robbery or assault. His argument is that we need to start treating drug use as a medical problem just as we do alcoholism.
That doesn't mean that we allow the alcoholic who causes a traffic accident or assaults someone to escape the consequences of their actions nor do we however prosecute them for having a bottle of whiskey in their possession.

policarp

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Aye..
He has an awful lot of empathy and sympathy for certain folks...
He couldn't care less what they've been up to the night before!?

He was robbed by his own juvenile offenders and still defended them.

Qrt

policarp wrote: »

He was robbed by his own juvenile offenders and still defended them.

Isn't that what priests do? Preach the forgiving nature of God?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Each time I read or hear somebody wants to legalise drugs! I assume it's a píss take....
Like wtf

In fairness, it's been pointed out to you by myself and another poster exactly why the relationship between drugs and the law is erroneous.

What I find difficult to understand is how people think treating a drug abuser like a criminal actually garners any form of positive results.

Airyfairy12

Good for him, drugs should absolutely be decriminalised, the drug laws we currently have arent working and never have. A short walk through Dublin city at night or even during the day would tell you that. People need help and support, not punishment. Its worked for Portugal and other places, why wouldnt it work here?

joeguevara

It’s an interesting topic and certainly divides opinion. While there is constant applauding for parents who are trying to bring in medical marijuana as medication for their children, there is vitriol for a person who grows weed for sale. Same plant, different market and divides opinion.

There is huge sympathy on the forum for people who suffer from mental health issues but a lot of contempt for someone who takes a drugs who was maybe trying to escape their troubles and are too scared to get medical help.

There are people who are advocating for extra resources in disadvantaged areas to try and offer people more chances but for the guy in ballymun who died in mountjoy yesterday, a lot have little symmpathy.

Now I want to make clear, I am not stating an opinion but it goes to show the lack of sensible discussion and joined up thinking when it comes to drugs in Ireland. How can the likes of Vera Twomey be a champion and hero (which I think she is because of her undying commitment to her child) but someone growing the same plant be a scumbag criminal?

VinLieger

Sam Quentin wrote: »

It's totally incomprehensible to me,.. that some people still have this 'view' that to legalise drugs would make any positive difference in the attitude, actions, criminality, depression etc etc of drug users!?

So you say you really like him for all the work he's done, specifically where hes been fighting this issue on the ground for decades but because his opinion, which lets be honest is far more informed on this than yours is, differs from yours he's now a disappointment?


Also just to point out how uninformed you are on this, he isnt saying we should legalise, he's saying we should decriminalise at least some drugs ie cannabis that are nowhere near as harmful as the likes of cocaine, meth or heroin and the criminalisation of such drugs needlessly place people in the criminal system who otherwise would likely be far more active and healthy contributing members of society without the criminal badge hanging over their heads

Your Face

They should give it a trial run at least.

enricoh

A lad I work with was caught with e20 worth of weed. First offence. Went to court 2 months ago -case adjourned, he's back in tomorrow hoping it's the last days work he'll miss over it.
What a waste of courts time, cops time, solicitors and his time instead of a e200 fine on day one.
( Maybe the courts, cops n solicitors like it that way- keep the gravy train going!)

Pac1Man

You sound young Sam.

Your Face

Pac1Man wrote: »

You sound young Sam.

You sound like another type of priest there.

Deusexmachina

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

When peopleform their opinions on the dangers of drugs solely on the basis of whether said drug is legal or not, they generally have no idea what they're talking about.

Some dangerous drugs are legal, some illegal ones are relatively safe.

Are you suggesting cannabis is relatively safe? Relative to what? It’s highly carcinogenic and has been proven to contribute to paranoia, psychosis and other mental health issues.

I do understand that it is relatively safe in comparison to, for example, crack or heroine, but that does not make it safe.

Lagalising it will make it’s use more prevalent, which will be another major health issue our creaking health service will have to manage.

If you could turn back time, wouldn’t it have been great to ban cigarettes before they entered common usage? All those millions of painful deaths prevented, including both my grandparents.

Thankfully we have mostly copped on about the dangers of cigarettes (I am a former smoker myself).

Let’s not be slow learners about cannabis. It kills.

optogirl

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Are you suggesting cannabis is relatively safe? Relative to what? It’s highly carcinogenic and has been proven to contribute to paranoia, psychosis and other mental health issues.

I do understand that it is relatively safe in comparison to, for example, crack or heroine, but that does not make it safe.

Lagalising it will make it’s use more prevalent, which will be another major health issue our creaking health service will have to manage.

If you could turn back time, wouldn’t it have been great to ban cigarettes before they entered common usage? All those millions of painful deaths prevented.

Thankfully we have mostly copped on about the dangers of cigarettes (I am a former smoker myself).

Let’s not be slow learners about cannabis. It kills.

It's much much less harmful than alcohol - socially & physically - which is advertised non-stop and available for pittance in every shop.

Deusexmachina

optogirl wrote: »

It's much much less harmful than alcohol which is advertised non-stop and available for pittance in every shop.

I would argue that it’s not. But that’s not the point, anyway. Doesn’t make it safe or advisable.

The Bishop Basher

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I would argue that it’s not. But that’s not the point, anyway. Doesn’t make it safe or advisable.

You asked if it was safe and relative to what so surely it is the point.

And on that point..

The Lancet (using a multi faceted study) and many other professionals who know far more then you about the subject disagree with you..

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2010/11/02/scoring-drugs

This is the problem with this debate. We have far too many people who have been conditioned to believe the nonsense that has been spouted by media and government for years.

Remember "just say no" ??

The debate is done. The proof is conclusive. We know the war on drugs is an abject failure.

We claim to be a progressive nation so let's grow a set of balls on this one and act..

optogirl

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I would argue that it’s not.

based on what?

Graces7

optogirl wrote: »

It's much much less harmful than alcohol - socially & physically - which is advertised non-stop and available for pittance in every shop.

Is that supposed to be a recommendation given the damage alcohol does?

Graces7

VinLieger wrote: »

So you say you really like him for all the work he's done, specifically where hes been fighting this issue on the ground for decades but because his opinion, which lets be honest is far more informed on this than yours is, differs from yours he's now a disappointment?


Also just to point out how uninformed you are on this, he isnt saying we should legalise, he's saying we should decriminalise at least some drugs ie cannabis that are nowhere near as harmful as the likes of cocaine, meth or heroin and the criminalisation of such drugs needlessly place people in the criminal system who otherwise would likely be far more active and healthy contributing members of society without the criminal badge hanging over their heads

There are times, and this is one such, when active sympathy is destructive, to the individual and to society

He should know better

VinLieger

Graces7 wrote: »

There are times, and this is one such, when active sympathy is destructive, to the individual and to society

He should know better

So you claim to have more experience dealing with this issue than Peter McVerry?


Do you think the "war on drugs" could be classified as a success?

enricoh

enricoh wrote: »

A lad I work with was caught with e20 worth of weed. First offence. Went to court 2 months ago -case adjourned, he's back in tomorrow hoping it's the last days work he'll miss over it.
What a waste of courts time, cops time, solicitors and his time instead of a e200 fine on day one.
( Maybe the courts, cops n solicitors like it that way- keep the gravy train going!)

I know someone in a similar boat, first offence and ended up with a massive fine and name in the local paper. Silly stuff.

Fr_Dougal

Love the new thread title!

The Bishop Basher

Graces7 wrote: »

There are times, and this is one such, when active sympathy is destructive, to the individual and to society

With respect Graces7, all of the current thinking, analysis and evidence points to exactly the opposite position.

The professionals are slowly realising that our approach to addiction and substance abuse to date has been entirely the wrong approach.

We really need to move away from the current model which has failed us for many decades now..

The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..

How well do you think our current approach is working ?

ohnonotgmail

Graces7 wrote: »

There are times, and this is one such, when active sympathy is destructive, to the individual and to society

He should know better

He does know better. Which is why he made the suggestion he did. Criminalising drug users does not work.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Are you suggesting cannabis is relatively safe? Relative to what? It’s highly carcinogenic and has been proven to contribute to paranoia, psychosis and other mental health issues.

I do understand that it is relatively safe in comparison to, for example, crack or heroine, but that does not make it safe.

Lagalising it will make it’s use more prevalent, which will be another major health issue our creaking health service will have to manage.

If you could turn back time, wouldn’t it have been great to ban cigarettes before they entered common usage? All those millions of painful deaths prevented, including both my grandparents.

Thankfully we have mostly copped on about the dangers of cigarettes (I am a former smoker myself).

Let’s not be slow learners about cannabis. It kills.

Why do you open a post with the phrase "are you suggesting...?" when it's perfectly bloody clear what I'm suggesting and not suggesting in the post you replied to?! Which never mentions a specific drug, so chances are, no I'm not suggesting anything relating to cannabis.

All drugs have the potential to damage and kill certain users and all drugs have the potential to cause problems in certain user; but it's beyond stupid to say therefore it should be banned. In come cases the likleyhood is high, in some cases it's very low.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I would argue that it’s not. But that’s not the point, anyway. Doesn’t make it safe or advisable.

And you'd be wrong. Google "drugs rated by safety" or something similar and every graph that comes back will list alcohol way more higher on the danger scale. You've been duped into thinking alcohol is safer purely because it's legal (or, more accurately, you've been duped into thinking cannabis is more dangerous because it's banned).

The Bishop Basher

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Thankfully we have mostly copped on about the dangers of cigarettes (I am a former smoker myself).

Let’s not be slow learners about cannabis. It kills.

No it doesn't.

Where do you get this misinformation

Not one single person has ever died from cannabis. Not one..

The top 3 killers in the US are..

Tobacco
Obesity
Alcohol

In that order..

Do you drink alcohol ?

Deusexmachina

Rennaws wrote: »

You asked if it was safe and relative to what so surely it is the point.

And on that point..

The Lancet (using a multi faceted study) and many other professionals who know far more then you about the subject disagree with you..

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2010/11/02/scoring-drugs

This is the problem with this debate. We have far too many people who have been conditioned to believe the nonsense that has been spouted by media and government for years.

Remember "just say no" ??

The debate is done. The proof is conclusive. We know the war on drugs is an abject failure.

We claim to be a progressive nation so let's grow a set of balls on this one and act..

It's absolutely incredible how the dealers propaganda is now so ingrained in our culture.
Would you argue so strongly in defence of cigarette companies?

Here is the British Lund Foundation - an organisationwith no axe to grind on this issue:

The British Lung Foundation says that when cannabis and tobacco are smoked together, the harmful effects are significantly worse.

Its research suggests young cannabis smokers may also be at greater risk of throat and gullet cancers.

The foundation found that tar from cannabis joints contains 50 per cent more cancer-causing toxins than cigarettes made from tobacco alone.

Eight million Britons are thought to smoke cannabis, which some experts believe is a 'gateway' to harder drugs such as heroin and cocaine.

Earlier this year, researchers found that 79 per cent of children thought cannabis was safe while only 2 per cent recognised there are health risks from smoking the drug.

Dame Helena Shovelton, chief executive of the British Lung Foundation, said the harmful effects of cannabis had been swept under the carpet.

'People are under the illusion it is safe to smoke cannabis. Our report shows it is very dangerous to lung health, at least as dangerous as tobacco.

Deusexmachina

Rennaws wrote: »

No it doesn't.

Where do you get this misinformation

Not one single person has ever died from cannabis. Not one..

The top 3 killers in the US are..

Tobacco
Obesity
Alcohol

In that order..

Do you drink alcohol ?

Lung cancer.

Deusexmachina

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

And you'd be wrong. Google "drugs rated by safety" or something similar and every graph that comes back will list alcohol way more higher on the danger scale. You've been duped into thinking alcohol is safer purely because it's legal (or, more accurately, you've been duped into thinking cannabis is more dangerous because it's banned).

I really don't think I have been 'duped' thanks.
Alcohol is dangerous when abused. Cannabis is dangerous when used.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

And you'd be wrong. Google "drugs rated by safety" or something similar and every graph that comes back will list alcohol way more higher on the danger scale. You've been duped into thinking alcohol is safer purely because it's legal (or, more accurately, you've been duped into thinking cannabis is more dangerous because it's banned).

I really don't think I have been 'duped' thanks.
Alcohol is dangerous when abused. Cannabis is dangerous when used.

Both are dangerous when abused. Both can be used safely.

You are duped. You are also massively uninformed: cannabis doesn't have to be mixed with tobacco. It doesn't even have to be smoked in the first place, it can be ingested.

And yet you appear to be ok with nicotine being sold - should it also be banned?

The Bishop Basher

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Lung cancer.

Yes. Smoking tobacco causes lung cancer.

We're discussing cannabis here so what's your point ?

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Alcohol is dangerous when abused. Cannabis is dangerous when used.

2.5 million die every year world wide due to alcohol consumption.

Not one recorded death has ever been attributed to cannabis..

Your statement is probably one of the most nonsensical and ignorant statements i've ever read on this topic.

You have most certainly been duped..

Franz Von Peppercorn

KKkitty wrote: »

Decriminalisation of certain drugs would be a great thing. Less court time being taken up by people who only use cannabis recreationally. Why is decriminalisation of cannabis such a bad thing? You smoke it or whatever, you're chilled out and eat more due to the munchies. You're not harming anyone else. You find the most banal things funny as feck and you go to sleep. What's not to like about it.

You talking to me?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Rennaws wrote: »

Yes. Smoking tobacco causes lung cancer.

We're discussing cannabis here so what's your point ?



2.5 million die every year world wide due to alcohol consumption.

Not one recorded death has ever been attributed to cannabis..

Your statement is probably one of the most nonsensical and ignorant statements i've ever read on this topic.

You have most certainly been duped..

Actually jury is out on whether smoking dope causes lung cancer. Probably, though.

https://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/marijuana-lung-cancer-risk

The Bishop Basher

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Actually jury is out on whether smoking dope causes lung cancer. Probably, though.

https://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/marijuana-lung-cancer-risk

Smoking anything is going to bad for you.. No one denies that..

Vaping is likely to be considerably less harmful

Eating it will do you no harm at all

Either way, it should be a matter of personal choice.

Deusexmachina

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Both are dangerous when abused. Both can be used safely.

You are duped. You are also massively uninformed: cannabis doesn't have to be mixed with tobacco. It doesn't even have to be smoked in the first place, it can be ingested.

And yet you appear to be ok with nicotine being sold - should it also be banned?

What about alcohol, what about nicotine, what about.......

You may have read my previous post. I asked if we had had the opportunity to stop tobacco smoking before it became ubiquitous, wouldn’t that have saved countless lives and untold suffering?

Yet you want cannabis legalized. Another poisonous carceogenic.

You reach for nonsense excuses like ‘you don’t have to smoke it, it can be ingested’.
But the vast vast majority of users smoke it.

The drug loads rule when it comes to propaganda. It is deeply embedded in youth culture.

Deusexmachina

Rennaws wrote: »

Smoking anything is going to bad for you.. No one denies that..

Vaping is likely to be considerably less harmful

Eating it will do you no harm at all

Either way, it should be a matter of personal choice.

Why should it be a matter of personal choice? Is it a matter of personal choice to have asbestos in your walls? To use leaded petrol? To drive at 150 miles per hour down O Connell Street?

wexie

Sam Quentin wrote: »

It's totally incomprehensible to me,.. that some people still have this 'view' that to legalise drugs would make any positive difference in the attitude, actions, criminality, depression etc etc of drug users!?

It's totally incomprehensible to me (and a lot of other people) that some people still have this 'view' that to criminalize drugs would make any positive difference in the attitude, actions, criminality, depression etc. etc. of drugs users!?

And if you were to look at examples such as Portugal, the Netherlands and Canada and the US to a lesser extent (where it comes to cannabis at least) it would seem that legalizing or at least decriminalizing will do far more good than the other way around.

Deusexmachina

Rennaws wrote: »

Yes. Smoking tobacco causes lung cancer.

We're discussing cannabis here so what's your point ?



2.5 million die every year world wide due to alcohol consumption.

Not one recorded death has ever been attributed to cannabis..

Your statement is probably one of the most nonsensical and ignorant statements i've ever read on this topic.

You have most certainly been duped..

Why so rattled? No need to be rude to me.

‘While THC is a relatively safe drug, smoked marijuana is hazardous. Careful scientific analyses have identified at least 6,000 of the same chemicals in marijuana smoke as are present in tobacco (Iversen, 2008). The main difference between the two is THC in marijuana and nicotine in tobacco. Otherwise, smoked marijuana and smoked tobacco are chemically very similar.

Furthermore, one of the most potent carcinogens in tobacco smoke, benzo(α)pyrene, is present in even greater amounts in marijuana smoke. As marijuana smokers frequently inhale and hold the smoke in their lungs, this increases the amount of tar deposited in the respiratory system by about a factor of four. No wonder, research shows that approximately 20% of regular pot smokers (and it only takes 3 to 4 joints a day) complain of chronic bronchitis, coughing and excess mucus (Tashkin, 2005).’

Deusexmachina

wexie wrote: »

It's totally incomprehensible to me (and a lot of other people) that some people still have this 'view' that to criminalize drugs would make any positive difference in the attitude, actions, criminality, depression etc. etc. of drugs users!?

And if you were to look at examples such as Portugal, the Netherlands and Canada and the US to a lesser extent (where it comes to cannabis at least) it would seem that legalizing or at least decriminalizing will do far more good than the other way around.

I lived in Amsterdam for 5 years. If you think their policy does more good than harm, you are wrong.
My Dutch friends thought the coffee shops were for idiot tourists. Meanwhile they are among the lowest rate of cannabis users in Europe.