Three Graffiti Artists killed on English railway line

Del.Monte

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/18/brixton-three-people-killed-by-train-near-brixton-south-london

How long before it happens here?



Killester - note the particularly dangerous painting beneath the platform edge.

I have been banging on about this for years but nobody's home. I have corresponded with at least three CEOs of Irish Rail, various Transport Ministers, CEOs of Luas, IRFU, FAI and a plethora of TDS but to no avail. Do we have to wait for a similar accident here before something is done?

Jamie2k9

What exactly do you want done?

If you play on the lines you might get killed, nothing anyone can do.

Dravokivich

Why sports organisations?

whisky_galore

There have been near misses.

Only a matter of time really.

This quote is like he's going on about old Dutch Masters or something rather than barely legible scrawling...

“It’s a very well-known section of track for graffiti,” said the source, who asked not to be named. “It still has some of the oldest illegal graffiti in south London and even has pieces down there from several writers who have passed away …

martingriff

I have a simple solution don't grafitti at train tracks personal responsibility

Del.Monte

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What exactly do you want done?

If you play on the lines you might get killed, nothing anyone can do.

I want CIE/IE/IRFU etc. to maintain their property to a high standard; to provide adequate security to ensure graffiti artists are caught and processed through the courts.

I couldn't care less if graffiti artists are mown down but what about the unfortunate first responders/train drivers etc. that have to deal with the incident?

Also, I think that the schools/private residences etc. have a right to expect that their property will not be attacked from railway property.

I think that the travelling public have a right to safe travel where they don't encounter incidents of people being hit on the tracks or placing obstacles on the track but hey let's just wait for an incident and the ritual hand wringing - perhaps we can have a tribunal or another mass.

Del.Monte

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why sports organisations?

Ever been past the Avia on the DART? I contacted all those involved in any way with the stadium as soon as the first smidgen of graffiti appeared and warned what would happen....

Gwen Cooper

I will probably never understand how these scribbles on the wall can be called 'art'.



My heart goes out to their families, the guys were very young and their parents must be devastated.

Del.Monte

B-D-P-- wrote: »

As above,
What do you expect any CEO to do?
Have you any suggestions instead of telling companies to do something thats near impossible to regulate?

The guys doing this must know the risks, and if stupid enough to still do it, may have to face consequences.

What I would expect the CEO of any organisation to do - their job!

Glass fused light

Del.Monte wrote: »

I want CIE/IE/IRFU etc. to maintain their property to a high standard; to provide adequate security to ensure graffiti artists are caught and processed through the courts.

I couldn't care less if graffiti artists are mown down but what about the unfortunate first responders/train drivers etc. that have to deal with the incident?

Also, I think that the schools/private residences etc. have a right to expect that their property will not be attacked from railway property.

I think that the travelling public have a right to safe travel where they don't encounter incidents of people being hit on the tracks or placing obstacles on the track but hey let's just wait for an incident and the ritual hand wringing - perhaps we can have a tribunal or another mass.

This may be what you want but how do you propose that it's achived.

Del.Monte

Interesting picture below from the early days of graffiti at the Avia from a cleaning contractor - the Avia authorities appear to have thrown in the towel.



https://www.pmac.ie/project/graffiti-techcrete-wall-aviva-stadium/

Stephen15

The problem I see is that if IE were to remove some graffiti someone would be back the next night to do some more. There's a spot near my house which has always had a lot of graffiti and the council tried removing it but a few days later someone was back to do more where the council had removed.

whisky_galore

Del.Monte wrote: »

What I would expect the CEO of any organisation to do - their job!

Go out on the lines with a hi-vis and a large stick?

Del.Monte

Glass fused light wrote: »

This may be what you want but how do you propose that it's achived.

Come on, what do you want - me to spell out line by line how to catch graffiti artists? Use your imagination.

Hilly Bill

Del.Monte wrote: »

I want CIE/IE/IRFU etc. to maintain their property to a high standard; to provide adequate security to ensure graffiti artists are caught and processed through the courts.

I couldn't care less if graffiti artists are mown down but what about the unfortunate first responders/train drivers etc. that have to deal with the incident?

Also, I think that the schools/private residences etc. have a right to expect that their property will not be attacked from railway property.

I think that the travelling public have a right to safe travel where they don't encounter incidents of people being hit on the tracks or placing obstacles on the track but hey let's just wait for an incident and the ritual hand wringing - perhaps we can have a tribunal or another mass.

If someone randomly threw a brick through your house window, would you blame them or yourself for not having the windows boarded up?.

Hilly Bill

Del.Monte wrote: »

Come on, what do you want - me to spell out line by line how to catch graffiti artists? Use your imagination.

Ye, please do.

Del.Monte

Stephen15 wrote: »

The problem I see is that if IE were to remove some graffiti someone would be back the next night to do some more. There's a spot near my house which has always had a lot of graffiti and the council tried removing it but a few days later someone was back to do more where the council had removed.

A defeatist attitude that has things in the state that they are. It is well known that to beat the graffiti artist you need to remove the offending 'art' within a very short time frame or more will be added.

kaymin

Del.Monte wrote: »

Come on, what do you want - me to spell out line by line how to catch graffiti artists? Use your imagination.

Maybe they are just not concerned about it. It's not their job either. If you are so concerned why don't you patrol the graffiti hotspots.

Hilly Bill

Del.Monte wrote: »

What I would expect the CEO of any organisation to do - their job!

Which is?

Del.Monte

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Ye, please do.

Hardly worth replying to, but if CIE don't possess the wit to tackle the problem they need to hire the expertise in. They could try catching some of these people by using 'Q' trains - inspections cars - as on English railways.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11041256/Q-Trains-carrying-police-to-be-deployed-to-tackle-rail-vandals.html

Oink

It’s cheaper to let the odd twat die from time to time and deal with the aftermath, than to try and stop all twats. As long as that’s true you should not expect much more than thoughts and prayers.

Hilly Bill

Del.Monte wrote: »

A defeatist attitude that has things in the state that they are. It is well known that to beat the graffiti artist you need to remove the offending 'art' within a very short time frame or more will be added.

Apply for the job.

fullstop

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Apply for the job.

He's too busy emailing every CEO in the country!

ednwireland

we were shown this in school in england
different times but it made you think

Warning its a bit graphic !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slJyhOEo-SY

Del.Monte

kaymin wrote: »

Maybe they are just not concerned about it. It's not their job either. If you are so concerned why don't you patrol the graffiti hotspots.

What sort of a daft comment is that - I live in Enniscorthy? That said, I would be happy to provide my expertise on cleaning up the situation if somebody pays me.

And, it is their job to secure their property so that it's not damaged or used to access other people's property.

Del.Monte

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Apply for the job.

Very smart from someone who usually has an answer for everything - but there's no such job advertised.

Hilly Bill

Del.Monte wrote: »

Hardly worth replying to, but if CIE don't possess the wit to tackle the problem they need to hire the expertise in. They could try catching some of these people by using 'Q' trains - inspections cars - as on English railways.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11041256/Q-Trains-carrying-police-to-be-deployed-to-tackle-rail-vandals.html

Do you think they stay there when a train goes by?

Hilly Bill

Del.Monte wrote: »

Very smart from someone who usually has an answer for everything - but there's no such job advertised.

Approach them with your services and expertise.

Del.Monte

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Approach them with your services and expertise.

Surely there be some more overtime in it for you and your colleagues. :rolleyes:

Glass fused light

Del.Monte wrote: »

Come on, what do you want - me to spell out line by line how to catch graffiti artists? Use your imagination.

Yes actually I do want you to spell it out line by line.

Del.Monte

I find it amazing that on a serious subject like this there's little from anybody but personal jibes and daft comments - I didn't post this in AH for a reason.

whisky_galore

Oink wrote: »

It’s cheaper to let the odd twat die from time to time and deal with the aftermath, than to try and stop all twats. As long as that’s true you should not expect much more than thoughts and prayers.

Brutal, but true.

You could install fencing all over the place and have cctv and maybe even a 'Q' Train and it would still happen. They'd even enjoy the challenge.

You'd hate Italy and France OP, if it doesn't move (or even if it does move) it gets daubed.

kaymin

Del.Monte wrote: »

What sort of a daft comment is that - I live in Enniscorthy? That said, I would be happy to provide my expertise on cleaning up the situation if somebody pays me.

And, it is their job to secure their property so that it's not damaged or used to access other people's property.

It's not possible to secure rail lines to the extent that it is not possible to access them. Graffiti is criminal damage - the gardai are responsible for bringing those responsible to book.

Del.Monte

Glass fused light wrote: »

Yes actually I do want you to spell it out line by line.

Well you're out of luck - why don't you read up on it if you're genuinely interested.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/looking-after-the-railway/delays-explained/vandalism-and-trespass/

Jamie2k9

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

I will probably never understand how these scribbles on the wall can be called 'art'.



My heart goes out to their families, the guys were very young and their parents must be devastated.

Its politically correct, the headline should be Three Trespassers Killed by Train/Third Rail or Three Killed while Vandalising the Railway

bucketybuck

Del.Monte wrote: »

I would be happy to provide my expertise on cleaning up the situation if somebody pays me.

Rather hypocritical, no?

You won't even say what you think should be done without payment, but I bet if you were told it wasn't cost effective to keep all vandals away from train lines you would be frothing with indignation.

wexie

Del.Monte wrote: »

I find it amazing that on a serious subject like this there's little from anybody but personal jibes and daft comments - I didn't post this in AH for a reason.

Maybe it's because most people don't think it to be quite such a serious subject?

It's graffiti, it happens, people die all the time from doing stupid things, it happens. <shrugs>

You're not going to change either of those no matter how much you try and how many resources you throw at it.

Someone (I think it may actually have been you) posted a video a while ago where a bunch of graffiti 'artists' basically blocked and painted a train in a full station in the middle of a city. Completely planned including the getaway using ropes to abseil down the tracks straight to a waiting car.

Quite how do you propose to tackle a crowd motivated to do things like that?
Cleaning everything all the time only serves to furnish them with a nice clean canvas regularly.

I think if anything perhaps providing them with a safe space to practice their 'art' (in fairness some of it I think qualifies for art, albeit it very little and generally not when it's been done rushed by the side of the tracks somewhere) might be a more constructive approach.

Anything else is just going to make it more of a challenge. It's a game to them so the last thing we should be doing is to make it more challenging and more interesting.

Hilly Bill

Del.Monte wrote: »

I find it amazing that on a serious subject like this there's little from anybody but personal jibes and daft comments - I didn't post this in AH for a reason.

Read back post 29.

Fann Linn

Del.Monte wrote: »

Hardly worth replying to, but if CIE don't possess the wit to tackle the problem they need to hire the expertise in. They could try catching some of these people by using 'Q' trains - inspections cars - as on English railways.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11041256/Q-Trains-carrying-police-to-be-deployed-to-tackle-rail-vandals.html

This accident/vandalism also happened on-English raliways.

Glass fused light

Del.Monte wrote: »

I find it amazing that on a serious subject like this there's little from anybody but personal jibes and daft comments - I didn't post this in AH for a reason.

It's very sad for the driver of the train and its passengers, the emergency response team and the family of the individuals involved.
But the individuals involved made a choice to buy paint and trespass on the railway line. We as a society teach childern about personal safety. if they decide to act in a way which risked their lives how do you actually propose that the rest of society manage this risk.
The somebody should do something and blaming the rail company is not a reasoned response.

As harsh as it may appear the individuals who choose to trespass did so at their own risk with no apparent thought to the driver and others involved in what happened.

They, the same as the Irish taggers would have gained access illegally and that is why I and most people are asking exactly what should be done to prevent the illegal acts.

splinter65

Nothing can be done about it . It’s nobodies fault except the dead boys themselves.
These guys will become “martyrs” to other graffiti “artists” as if their deaths were somehow honorable or brave instead of being as a result of abject stupidity and a total disregard for anyone else’s rights.
I was glad to see the publication of the drone coverage of the bodies being removed. If it even makes one of the knuckle draggers think again about dueling with a freight train then it will be justified.

Del.Monte

My answer to the question what should be done for the last time is: apprehend, detain, prosecute and jail those responsible. If those in authority cannot do their job they should be sacked and replaced. Anyway. I'm out until later.

whisky_galore

wexie wrote: »

Maybe it's because most people don't think it to be quite such a serious subject?

It's graffiti, it happens, people die all the time from doing stupid things, it happens. <shrugs>

You're not going to change either of those no matter how much you try and how many resources you throw at it.

Someone (I think it may actually have been you) posted a video a while ago where a bunch of graffiti 'artists' basically blocked and painted a train in a full station in the middle of a city. Completely planned including the getaway using ropes to abseil down the tracks straight to a waiting car.

Quite how do you propose to tackle a crowd motivated to do things like that?
Cleaning everything all the time only serves to furnish them with a nice clean canvas regularly.

I think if anything perhaps providing them with a safe space to practice their 'art' (in fairness some of it I think qualifies for art, albeit it very little and generally not when it's been done rushed by the side of the tracks somewhere) might be a more constructive approach.

Anything else is just going to make it more of a challenge. It's a game to them so the last thing we should be doing is to make it more challenging and more interesting.

The trains need to be cleaned off, likewise public areas. However I don't see any merit in cleaning every single electrical box, bridge, pole and wall, besides it'd cost an absolute bomb.

Glass fused light

Del.Monte wrote: »

Well you're out of luck - why don't you read up on it if you're genuinely interested.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/looking-after-the-railway/delays-explained/vandalism-and-trespass/

See this is just being rude and totally undermines your complaint that it should be taken seriously.

kaymin

Del.Monte wrote: »

My answer to the question what should be done for the last time is: apprehend, detain, prosecute and jail those responsible. If those in authority cannot do their job they should be sacked and replaced. Anyway. I'm out until later.

It sounds like you have contacted everybody about this except those responsible for apprehending, detaining, prosecuting...blah blah

Glass fused light

Del.Monte wrote: »

My answer to the question what should be done for the last time is: apprehend, detain, prosecute and jail those responsible. If those in authority cannot do their job they should be sacked and replaced. Anyway. I'm out until later.

Please explain how you think those in authority would go about apprehending and detaining.

Zubeneschamali

Glass fused light wrote: »

It's very sad for the driver of the train and its passengers, the emergency response team and the family of the individuals involved.

From my reading of the story, they don't even know which train killed them, and it was maybe 5am, before any passenger trains were running. So no passengers were affected, and the driver wasn't even aware.

Zubeneschamali

Del.Monte wrote: »

My answer to the question what should be done for the last time is: apprehend, detain, prosecute and jail those responsible.

They are dead already.

Hilly Bill

Del.Monte wrote: »

My answer to the question what should be done for the last time is: apprehend, detain, prosecute and jail those responsible. If those in authority cannot do their job they should be sacked and replaced. Anyway. I'm out until later.

They have apprehended, detained and prosecuted graffiti vandals.

john boye

Del.Monte wrote: »

My answer to the question what should be done for the last time is: apprehend, detain, prosecute and jail those responsible. If those in authority cannot do their job they should be sacked and replaced. Anyway. I'm out until later.

If that's the case then why haven't you contacted the Gards instead of CEOs and Ministers?

the_syco

Del.Monte wrote: »

I want CIE/IE/IRFU etc. to maintain their property to a high standard; to provide adequate security to ensure graffiti artists are caught and processed through the courts.

There will always be sections of the line that are too dangerous to patrol, and these sections will the ones that get painted.

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

I will probably never understand how these scribbles on the wall can be called 'art'.

No-one describes tagging as art. However, there can be some nice pieces. The Simpsons piece viewable from the Sligo-Dublin line west of Connolly station.

=-=

Deface existing graffiti with black paint, from a paintball gun.