Eddie Tobin Memorial

Craig06

I’m about to have a bit of a rant here. So as an A4 we have to pre register for events in order to make sure we get in. Cycling Ireland has a perfectly good events page linked to your licence for doing this. So could someone please explain to me why a third party booking site is allowed to be used and then subsequently charge a €1.05 booking fee on top of the €15 race fee. I think this is a disgrace as it’s not as if the facility is already there and races are dear enough as it is.

Miklos

Don't go then, simple.

fondriest

Craig06 wrote: »

I’m about to have a bit of a rant here. So as an A4 we have to pre register for events in order to make sure we get in. Cycling Ireland has a perfectly good events page linked to your licence for doing this. So could someone please explain to me why a third party booking site is allowed to be used and then subsequently charge a €1.05 booking fee on top of the €15 race fee. I think this is a disgrace as it’s not as if the facility is already there and races are dear enough as it is.

Slaney CC used that booking site long before CI had their events page in order , it probably worked well for them and I'm guessing they could see no point in changing.

CramCycle

The CI page has also crashed and been unusable on several occasions. I didn't like the extra 1.5euro but as has been said before, you could still back out at that stage.

My only complaint was all the data it wanted.

So long as it doesn't become a back route for charging more.

Craig06

CramCycle wrote: »

The CI page has also crashed and been unusable on several occasions. I didn't like the extra 1.5euro but as has been said before, you could still back out at that stage.

My only complaint was all the data it wanted.

So long as it doesn't become a back route for charging more.

Still didn’t even ask me for my licence number either though

fondriest

The thing that DID bother me was that the page would not let me finish the booking until I ticked the box to allow them to spam me . Hate that !

CramCycle

fondriest wrote: »

The thing that DID bother me was that the page would not let me finish the booking until I ticked the box to allow them to spam me . Hate that !

I didn't have to tick that box.

sullzz

Craig06 wrote: »

I’m about to have a bit of a rant here. So as an A4 we have to pre register for events in order to make sure we get in. Cycling Ireland has a perfectly good events page linked to your licence for doing this. So could someone please explain to me why a third party booking site is allowed to be used and then subsequently charge a €1.05 booking fee on top of the €15 race fee. I think this is a disgrace as it’s not as if the facility is already there and races are dear enough as it is.

So this isnt an Eddie Tobin Thread ?
Chillax and either pay the €1.05 or dont sign up , if it means pre reg with capped numbers I'll happily pay extra .

CramCycle

Looking forward to this at A4, see if I have any semblance of an engine left for that climb. Are you out for it Sullzz?

sullzz

CramCycle wrote: »

Looking forward to this at A4, see if I have any semblance of an engine left for that climb. Are you out for it Sullzz?

Hope to , although ive a hectic week in work , and also in work on the Saturday so im not getting much training done this week , so i guess itll come down to how i feel on the morning of it . Ill register for it anyway .

Miklos

What’s the climb like?

sullzz

Miklos wrote: »

What’s the climb like?

If i remember correctly , its about 5km at 3% so not too bad .

C3PO

Craig06 wrote: »

So could someone please explain to me why a third party booking site is allowed to be used and then subsequently charge a €1.05 booking fee on top of the €15 race fee. I think this is a disgrace as it’s not as if the facility is already there and races are dear enough as it is.

€15 is "dear enough"? I genuinely think €15 is incredibly cheap given the amount of work/effort required in running a race! Try mountain bike racing!

sullzz

I agree , clubs are mostly at a loss after races , id happily pay more than that to keep races on the calendar.
You never hear people complaining about the cost of sportives that are about 20 to 25 euro .

Macy0161

sullzz wrote: »

You never hear people complaining about the cost of sportives that are about 20 to 25 euro .

Compared to other sports (like triathlon), entries seem really cheap to me coming from that. And I can enter the week of, not the guts of a year before!

harringtonp

Macy0161 wrote: »

Compared to other sports (like triathlon), entries seem really cheap to me coming from that. And I can enter the week of, not the guts of a year before!

Agree, looking around feel that we are blessed in the world of competitive cycling here in Ireland. Its one of the few things that is great value here in the modern age, even if it doesn't feel like that to some cash strapped juniors.

Compared to money spent on fuel (to get to races), bikes and bike parts (and when I look around the peloton everybody has a good bike) it's insignificant.

eeeee

I've missed at least 3 races this year because I couldn't afford to go, and the difference was €5 - a €20 entry versus €15, or diesel money donations. My bike is 6 years old, second hand and I was given help to buy it, most cycling things I have were donated to me equipment wise. It's taken years to build up my kit. Not everyone is on expensive equipment.
Thank god for track. Did my first nationals on a rental bike. Only last week I upgraded from a donated bike, 2 national medals later. Track is extremely affordable and accessible by comparison, road just isn't.
Some of us are racing on a shoe string.

CramCycle

Have to agree with nee here.

While I can pay the 15euro, mainly because I don't do too many events, I know alot of people who would struggle with it.

I have said it before, at A3 and A4 level, get rid of monetary prizes. They are a huge addition to the cost of running a race and entirely unnecessary, i haven't met an A4 rider yet who hasn't ridden a race because the prize pot was too small.

I only take part in events in my locale or I know someone is driving too.

not sane

Totally agree on the money for prizes for A3 and A4's, if it keeps the overall costs down for a club running the race/races.

dahat

90% of A3 &, A4 lads head off each Sunday with no idea of prize money, it all about the pts for most.

CramCycle

dahat wrote: »

90% of A3 &, A4 lads head off each Sunday with no idea of prize money, it all about the pts for most.

All about getting round for the rest :pac:

C3PO

CramCycle wrote:

All about getting round for the rest :pac:

..... in one piece and not getting dropped!

That was all that ever bothered me in A4!

MichealD

Craig06 wrote: »

I’m about to have a bit of a rant here. So as an A4 we have to pre register for events in order to make sure we get in. Cycling Ireland has a perfectly good events page linked to your licence for doing this. So could someone please explain to me why a third party booking site is allowed to be used and then subsequently charge a €1.05 booking fee on top of the €15 race fee. I think this is a disgrace as it’s not as if the facility is already there and races are dear enough as it is.

Quick two minute review of an average open race.

Rent sign on venue/showers/parking
Buy Insurance indemnity for venue
Pay for 2 x ambulances plus 4 trained personnel
4 x Commisaires
Photo finish camera
30 x marshals/drivers giving up four hours minimum on the day - 120 hours.
Fuel for 4 lead cars, 4 comm cars
Tea/coffee/ sandwiches for 100+ people
Cash prizes for 4 x 8 riders plus extras

Numerous meetings over months, texts, messages, course inspections, risk assessment, contacts with council, third parties, social media, arrange finish line truck, mark roads, erect signage, beg steal or borrow extra radios, listen to riders who seem surprised to have to produce a licence or that you haven’t change of another €50 note, try to decipher sign sheets scribbled as if they were giving autographs.

Clean up venue left in an absolute state by some riders, clean up car park, type up results and publish. Get email/text expecting us to locate mislaid glasses/HR strap or computer. Hope the woman who complained last year about a cyclist pissing in her driveway while her children were in the garden is away this year.



Yeah, cyclists are being robbed by clubs by having to pay €15 euro and a booking fee to take part in their hobby.

Diarmuid

MichealD wrote: »

Yeah, cyclists are being robbed by clubs by having to pay €15 euro and a booking fee to take part in their hobby.

Don't you know, clubs are falling over themselves to run races for €16.05/head

CramCycle

Looks like its going to be a cracking day.

eeeee

They've cancelled the women's race. Cork cancelled their women's races too. Such a shame.

wirelessdude01

nee wrote:

They've cancelled the women's race. Cork cancelled their women's races too. Such a shame.

Both coursea would be considered undulating. Wonder is that a reason why so few pre-registered? Can't blame the organisers for binning them. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink comes to mind here.

eeeee

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Both coursea would be considered undulating. Wonder is that a reason why so few pre-registered? Can't blame the organisers for binning them. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink comes to mind here.

The courses have absolutely nothing to do with it.
99% of us enter our races on the day cos our races never fill out. We had no idea that the races viability was going to be decided by online entry. Hugely disappointing to lose two races cos of pre entry we didn't know about. If we knew that was the arbiter of viability them we'd do it. In three years of racing I've only ever pre entered nationals and omagh. Again if we knew it was conditional on that we'd have pre entered.
Ever single women's only race advertised gets a field. Mightn't be huge, but it's there. I have and do cross the country for a guaranteed women's only race. I don't travel for a 'if we get the numbers there'll be one if we don't ye're in with the guys' situation.
It's such a pity to lose two of the few women's only races in the calendar.

wirelessdude01

nee wrote:

The courses have absolutely nothing to do with it. 99% of us enter our races on the day cos our races never fill out. We had no idea that the races viability was going to be decided by online entry. Hugely disappointing to lose two races cos of pre entry we didn't know about. If we knew that was the arbiter of viability them we'd do it. In three years of racing I've only ever pre entered nationals and omagh. Again if we knew it was conditional on that we'd have pre entered. Ever single women's only race advertised gets a field. Mightn't be huge, but it's there. I have and do cross the country for a guaranteed women's only race. I don't travel for a 'if we get the numbers there'll be one if we don't ye're in with the guys' situation. It's such a pity to lose two of the few women's only races in the calendar.

Well Eddie Tobin races were pre-registered for every cat for men's so why should it be any different for the women? Any reason why the women won't pre-reg?

eeeee

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well Eddie Tobin races were pre-registered for every cat for men's so why should it be any different for the women? Any reason why the women won't pre-reg?

Every race I've been to this year have been pre reg for men, enter on the day for women.
We didn't pre reg cos we didn't know the running of the race was conditional on it, and that we never have to do that (bar nationals and omagh). If you don't know something it's kind of hard to do it! All the organisers had to say was that our race is contingent upon online entries. We can use the internet, it's not a big problem. The problem is organisers not telling us the way women have entered races for the last three years didn't apply to their race. They only had to say it.

wirelessdude01

nee wrote:

Every race I've been to this year have been pre reg for men, enter on the day for women. We didn't pre reg cos we didn't know the running of the race was conditional on it, and that we never have to do that (bar nationals and omagh). If you don't know something it's kind of hard to do it! All the organisers had to say was that our race is contingent upon online entries. We can use the internet, it's not a big problem. The problem is organisers not telling us the way women have entered races for the last three years didn't apply to their race. They only had to say it.

It was clear as day that every race was pre-reg for them.

eeeee

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

It was clear as day that every race was pre-reg for them.

Nope, it looked exactly like every other race I've been to this year, entries online for the men, to limit numbers, sign on on the day for everyone else.

CramCycle

I seen three women in A4, one in front of me at sign on and didn't know that the race had been cancelled. I understand the organisers thinking there was no interest, and also the women thinking that its been this way at every other race.

Something that should have been clarified for both parties, and maybe something the women's commission should be more active on now that it has been made clear there is an accepted routine.

Also that course is not undulating. Its pretty flat bar the one climb, which isn't exactly a killer. So I doubt that was a reason.

On more positive news, fair play to Slaney. A really well run event. Great marshalling, great atmosphere, great support at the end. Will definitely be going back. It was fast in that heat.

Miklos

Had a shocker of a day at this yesterday, got popped the second time up the climb in the A3. It was my first A3 race and I was coming off about a month off racing so no surprise really.

Great course though, and what a beautiful day.

fondriest

Miklos wrote: »

Had a shocker of a day at this yesterday, got popped the second time up the climb in the A3. It was my first A3 race and I was coming off about a month off racing so no surprise really.

Great course though, and what a beautiful day.

There was a lot of people in the same boat, I'd say only about 20 left in the A3 bunch coming to the line.

CramCycle

A4 bunch held together until the end with people only dropping out the back on the last time up the climb. On a cooler day it would be fair to say that could be one of the fastest races in the country. Comfortably tipping away at 45kmph most of the way round in that heat.

Racing was quite negative, and I realise it is racing but foolishly so. The lads who were stronger and neutralising every attack (one guy shouting up from 5 back everytime someone came around) easily could have made a breakaway, and in the end few of them placed. One Navan lad made a decent break and just got reeled in with a few km to go but everytime anyone tried to break, there was a line out and that was that.

sullzz

CramCycle wrote: »

A4 bunch held together until the end with people only dropping out the back on the last time up the climb. On a cooler day it would be fair to say that could be one of the fastest races in the country. Comfortably tipping away at 45kmph most of the way round in that heat.

Racing was quite negative, and I realise it is racing but foolishly so. The lads who were stronger and neutralising every attack (one guy shouting up from 5 back everytime someone came around) easily could have made a breakaway, and in the end few of them placed. One Navan lad made a decent break and just got reeled in with a few km to go but everytime anyone tried to break, there was a line out and that was that.

Nothing was going to be let stay away in that race , every race i would try to get away and yesterday i tried it once albeit at the very start , i jumped across to 2 other lads who were a bit off the front , but as soon as i did they looked o er their shoulder and said " the bunch are coming " and sat up . Like for god sake , of course the bunch are coming they arent going to stop , bury yourselves for a couple of mins to get a gap .
But like you say the bunch strung out and chased every little move down rather that a couple of strong lads try make the gap on their own .
That particular Navan lad has a reputation for jumping off the front and then sitting up so i think the bunch let him away knowing he would blow up but it almost backfired . If he was smart yesterday he shouldve given somebody else a nod to go with him .

CramCycle

sullzz wrote: »

Nothing was going to be let stay away in that race , every race i would try to get away and yesterday i tried it once albeit at the very start , i jumped across to 2 other lads who were a bit off the front , but as soon as i did they looked o er their shoulder and said " the bunch are coming " and sat up . Like for god sake , of course the bunch are coming they arent going to stop , bury yourselves for a couple of mins to get a gap .
But like you say the bunch strung out and chased every little move down rather that a couple of strong lads try make the gap on their own .
That particular Navan lad has a reputation for jumping off the front and then sitting up so i think the bunch let him away knowing he would blow up but it almost backfired . If he was smart yesterday he shouldve given somebody else a nod to go with him .

I would went with him for the crack, I actually missed him going by, just looked up and he was 100m up the road

mh_cork

nee wrote: »

The courses have absolutely nothing to do with it.
99% of us enter our races on the day cos our races never fill out. We had no idea that the races viability was going to be decided by online entry. Hugely disappointing to lose two races cos of pre entry we didn't know about. If we knew that was the arbiter of viability them we'd do it. In three years of racing I've only ever pre entered nationals and omagh. Again if we knew it was conditional on that we'd have pre entered.
Ever single women's only race advertised gets a field. Mightn't be huge, but it's there. I have and do cross the country for a guaranteed women's only race. I don't travel for a 'if we get the numbers there'll be one if we don't ye're in with the guys' situation.
It's such a pity to lose two of the few women's only races in the calendar.

It is not clear if your comments are aimed at the Eddie Tobin race or the Cork race, but are wrong about the Cork race. There was no pre-entry for men or women, it was pay on the day. We had a separate womens race planned but had to make a call on it the week leading up to the race. Unfortunately we got feedback to say that the demand was not there and the race would not be viable.

nee wrote: »

Ever single women's only race advertised gets a field. Mightn't be huge, but it's there

But if a race is advertised, then by definition it gets a field if a single person signs up. Is that not a problem on why clubs are hesitant about advertising separate races? Would you prefer to have a separate race with 5-6 people, or to be in with the A4's? Maybe you would, but I am not sure that all racers would prefer to have a separate race with such a small field.

I'm genuinely asking, not trying to be smart or anything. Bear in mind that every race needs 1-2 lead cars, motorbikes, race commissioner fees, etc. As others have said, clubs do not make money from races and we could only put on the race because 40 people giving up their time on a Sunday.

eeeee

mh_cork wrote: »

It is not clear if your comments are aimed at the Eddie Tobin race or the Cork race, but are wrong about the Cork race. There was no pre-entry for men or women, it was pay on the day. We had a separate womens race planned but had to make a call on it the week leading up to the race. Unfortunately we got feedback to say that the demand was not there and the race would not be viable.



But if a race is advertised, then by definition it gets a field if a single person signs up. Is that not a problem on why clubs are hesitant about advertising separate races? Would you prefer to have a separate race with 5-6 people, or to be in with the A4's? Maybe you would, but I am not sure that all racers would prefer to have a separate race with such a small field.

I'm genuinely asking, not trying to be smart or anything. Bear in mind that every race needs 1-2 lead cars, motorbikes, race commissioner fees, etc. As others have said, clubs do not make money from races and we could only put on the race because 40 people giving up their time on a Sunday.

Re the Cork race, I was told (it's up on facebook) that it was a lack of pre entries, unless I'm misunderstanding that. It's unfortunate that it clashed with another of the few women's races on in the year.

I've never raced with just 5 or 6 people on the road, we have always gotten a bunch. 100% prefer to have a separate race, I would never (and thankfully having an A3 license don't have to) jump in with the A4's. Dumping us in with the men is not a solution, it's not how you grow or support women's racing in this country. People wonder why women don't turn up to race to a 'we'll only put on on if enough of ye turn up'. I'm not going to spend 3 hours driving across the country to maybe get a race. If it's billed as a women's only separate race then I'm there. It's about building the sport and encouraging women into racing. Throwing them/us in with the men is doing neither. Even when we get our own race it's problematic most of the time, but it's better than nothing. What's wrong with women's racing is a conversation for another thread! There would have easily been a bunch at the Eddie Tobin on Sunday, easily. All the usual crowd were going to do down to it.

Miklos

CramCycle wrote: »

I would went with him for the crack, I actually missed him going by, just looked up and he was 100m up the road

Keep an eye on him, he goes practically every race!

CramCycle

Maybe its time for CI to put there money where their mouth is about womens racing. Not support every race but guarantee that if separate womens races are put on, they will cover the cost of the comms and ambulance for at least on on any given weekend. These are pretty fixed costs and takes alot of the pressure of the organiser.

So in the case of this weekend, the womens commission decide which of the two venues would get more of a turn out, point it out to CI and let them cover those costs.

Macy0161

nee wrote: »

People wonder why women don't turn up to race to a 'we'll only put on on if enough of ye turn up'. I'm not going to spend 3 hours driving across the country to maybe get a race.

Is that not something of an argument for womens races to be pre-reg only? Is there something I'm missing that people are prepared to travel 3 hours, but not to pre-register?

eeeee

Macy0161 wrote: »

Is that not something of an argument for womens races to be pre-reg only? Is there something I'm missing that people are prepared to travel 3 hours, but not to pre-register?

We have no issue pre registering. But we need to know this is what we have to do first, otherwise we will think it's like the other 99% of women's races that don't require this! If we don't know the race is contingent on this there's not a lot we can do. If we know, we will do it. But we have to know. The knowing is crucial.

ht9zni1gs28crp

MichealD wrote: »

Quick two minute review of an average open race.

Rent sign on venue/showers/parking
Buy Insurance indemnity for venue
Pay for 2 x ambulances plus 4 trained personnel
4 x Commisaires
Photo finish camera
30 x marshals/drivers giving up four hours minimum on the day - 120 hours.
Fuel for 4 lead cars, 4 comm cars
Tea/coffee/ sandwiches for 100+ people
Cash prizes for 4 x 8 riders plus extras

Numerous meetings over months, texts, messages, course inspections, risk assessment, contacts with council, third parties, social media, arrange finish line truck, mark roads, erect signage, beg steal or borrow extra radios, listen to riders who seem surprised to have to produce a licence or that you haven’t change of another €50 note, try to decipher sign sheets scribbled as if they were giving autographs.

Clean up venue left in an absolute state by some riders, clean up car park, type up results and publish. Get email/text expecting us to locate mislaid glasses/HR strap or computer. Hope the woman who complained last year about a cyclist pissing in her driveway while her children were in the garden is away this year.



Yeah, cyclists are being robbed by clubs by having to pay €15 euro and a booking fee to take part in their hobby.

Very well said, given our club runs 8 races a year so you can imagine the negative balance books come the end of the year.

The whole €15 entry fee is archaic, races will continiue to dissapear if this doesnt change soon. The €1.05 registration fee is an aside of online sign on.

Order of Malta fees have just doubled, as have a lot of associated costs with racing.

Anatoly

CramCycle wrote: »

A4 bunch held together until the end with people only dropping out the back on the last time up the climb. On a cooler day it would be fair to say that could be one of the fastest races in the country. Comfortably tipping away at 45kmph most of the way round in that heat.

Racing was quite negative, and I realise it is racing but foolishly so. The lads who were stronger and neutralising every attack (one guy shouting up from 5 back everytime someone came around) easily could have made a breakaway, and in the end few of them placed. One Navan lad made a decent break and just got reeled in with a few km to go but everytime anyone tried to break, there was a line out and that was that.

That's A4 racing. Guys won't work on the front unless they have something to chase. Fellas freewheeling on the front of the bunch going downhill, moving up round the outside into second wheel to do nothing except sit there etc etc etc. That Navan guy goes away by himself in every race I've been at and he never lasts. I was there at the weekend and I wasn't worried. Foolish to go away on a break by yourself in that heat, especially if you're Irish!

DirkVoodoo

Miklos wrote: »

Had a shocker of a day at this yesterday, got popped the second time up the climb in the A3. It was my first A3 race and I was coming off about a month off racing so no surprise really.

Great course though, and what a beautiful day.

Could have been worse. I was rushing to drive down after someone I was meant to give a lift to never showed. On the road at 09:10 and still had to get petrol.

Arrived at 10:40 (after struggling to find the sign-on due to google maps letting me down!) and signed-on.

Pulled my box of kit out of the car only to find...no shorts. Straight back in the car to Dublin.

I learned my lesson: When you tell someone you're leaving at 08:30, if they aren't there by that time, LEAVE!

CramCycle

I suppose the issue was more, the neutralising bunch were clearly strong enough to break away, but they maybe were going for a sprint, but few if any of them placed.

Seemed stupid.

Anyway, doesn't take away from a cracking day out. Marshalling was excellent, good sambos and cake, good facilities at the AFC.

I am probably more annoyed with my own performance than anything else

CramCycle

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I learned my lesson: When you tell someone you're leaving at 08:30, if they aren't there by that time, LEAVE!

I have heard of one or two old school Sunday spinners. Would ride past the meeting point a minute after meet up time and not stop, just shout that they were leaving, rather than faffing about waiting for potential no shows