Hospital consultants and their pay deal

realitykeeper

I hear hospital consultants negotiated a pay deal which included back pay. They also seemed to take issue with being "spied" upon to make sure they were not double jobbing.

Ah yes, political cowardice at it`s most extreme. Rather than demanding the hospital consultants surrender their passports at the nearest Garda station and have them make an immediate and full declaration of all their assets to the revenue, the government caved in. Those consultants should have been sued by the state for breech of contract. There is already ample evidence that the hospital consultants have worked in private practice while on the taxpayers payroll and the never ending waiting lists are a testament in themselves. Even the waiting lists are the tip of the iceberg because so so many who should have been treated, died waiting for a begrudging consultant whose only interest was to get back to his private patients as quickly as possible.

Mind you, I am all in favor of private healthcare but consultants must work for one or the other. It is clear these consultants cannot be trusted and they need a boss with the power to sack them to follow them around and to shout at them for slacking off. Consultants should only be paid for what they do and not by the hour.

Finally, hospital spending (like government spending) should stop and every demand for payment scrutinized for value in order to end waste. If a hospital overspends, the claimants should only be allowed claim from the individuals responsible and their personal estate. Am I wrong?

Hande hoche!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlWvk5CUD5w

kneemos

Consultants are allowed work publicly and privately.

What you want is a Soviet style set up. What they do outside their allotted public hours is their own business.

The state made a contract. Then broke their side of it.

The consultants took them to court and the state settled.


But I know its popular to kick the consultants because (a) they are very well paid (b) they are small enough in number to provide an easily kickable group without political blowback.


The government can fight them but lets face it these folks have about 10 years of specialised expensive training, huge responsibility in a lot of cases, and many could walk out tomorrow and work anywhere in the world.

And we are short of them already.

Paulzx

realitykeeper wrote: »

Those consultants should have been sued by the state for breech of contract.

Ehhhhhhh.........the consultants sued the state for breach of contract and won.

Why would the state sue them for breach of contract when they've already lost the case.

I'm guessing you're not a member of Mensa

super_furry

Some amount of nonsense being spouted on this. As has been stated they signed a contract and asked for the terms of that contract to be fulfilled. Not wrong with that whatsoever.

eric hoone

It must be the end of the 200k public pay cap policy anyway.

Paulzx

realitykeeper wrote: »

Finally, hospital spending (like government spending) should stop

You want the state to shut up shop and turn off the lights??????

Mikenesson

Paulzx wrote: »

You want the state to shut up shop and turn off the lights??????

It would be a start

The health service budget is mainly serving the employees and unions not the patients

RDM_83 again

kneemos wrote: »

Consultants are allowed work publicly and privately.

What you want is a Soviet style set up. What they do outside their allotted public hours is their own business.

Don't a lot of contracts have clauses against you taking up a second role, particularly if it can be argued that it impacts your primary one?

Corruptedmorals

Stop hospital spending? If you wanted to be dramatic about it, firing or severely reducing pay for HSE non-hospital administration staff would have been a better start.

Many hospitals are not fit for purpose. You could visit Crumlin hospital's main outpatients department or its older but still functioning wards for an example of this but there are plenty. Nationwide a lot of outpatients, A&E's and wards were built for much lower capacity than they are currently dealing with. And they don't have the theatres to take on more patients or shorten the inpatient waiting lists. Hospitals do not have enough front line doctors, nurses or administration staff.

All of our hospitals are struggling with understaffing, poor, outdated facilities and the waiting lists. If spending could be diverted from the office HSE staff and poured directly into the hospitals it would be great. Not stop spending altogether and make them beg when they're already on their knees.

Pugzilla

They deserve to be paid well considering the length and complexity of training, long hours, pressure, liability they have.
All the major decisions regarding diagnosis and treatment are made by consultants. They have ultimate responsibility for a patient's outcome.
Not many other jobs where a single error can kill someone.

Compare this to soccer, grown men being paid a fortune for kicking a ball of air around a field.

This was also money that was originally promised to them in their contract.

Are the teachers, and all the other victims of FEMPI, going to sue the state now for breach of contract?

I distinctly remember Lenihan giving his senior civil servants a 25% pay rise while bringing in some of those cutbacks, and Howlin, Burton and the rest of the smoked salmon socialists in the Labour Party giving their friends/advisers huge payrises at precisely the same time as they introduced FEMPI cutting back everybody else's salary.

"Do as we say, not as we do" government.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Are the teachers, and all the other victims of FEMPI, going to sue the state now for breach of contract?

Are we short of teachers? Do they make life or death decisions?

Id regard consultants as being in another league altogether from regular workers.

Mikenesson

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Are we short of teachers? Do they make life or death decisions?

Id regard consultants as being in another league altogether from regular workers.

Pretty sure there is a teacher shortage

Graces7

Pugzilla wrote: »

They deserve to be paid well considering the length and complexity of training, long hours, pressure, liability they have.
All the major decisions regarding diagnosis and treatment are made by consultants. They have ultimate responsibility for a patient's outcome.
Not many other jobs where a single error can kill someone.

Compare this to soccer, grown men being paid a fortune for kicking a ball of air around a field.

This was also money that was originally promised to them in their contract.

Given the dire state of the health service,it would have been a deeply meaningful and appreciated gesture to forgo this pay increase.

eric hoone

Graces7 wrote: »

Given the dire state of the health service,it would have been a deeply meaningful and appreciated gesture to forgo this pay increase.

I think the really noble gesture would be making new colleagues pay parity part of the deal. Recruiting new consultants is a ticking time bomb in the health services

Pugzilla

Graces7 wrote: »

Given the dire state of the health service,it would have been a deeply meaningful and appreciated gesture to forgo this pay increase.

Doctor and nurse salaries are miniscule in the HSE budget. Main issue is the overbloated administration staff. Too many pencil pushers.

Graces7

Pugzilla wrote: »

Doctor and nurse salaries are miniscule in the HSE budget. Main issue is the overbloated administration staff. Too many pencil pushers.

Even so. Seeking more is a bad example. And will escalate..

Mikenesson

At least this time they haven't said their pay increase will benefit their patients...



Or have they?

Pugzilla

It's not a pay increase as it was part of their original contracts.

Mikenesson

Pugzilla wrote: »

It's not a pay increase as it was part of their original contracts.

As long as they're not using their patients as bait

That's the usual tactic from them

Anita Blow

realitykeeper wrote: »

I hear hospital consultants negotiated a pay deal which included back pay. They also seemed to take issue with being "spied" upon to make sure they were not double jobbing.

It wasn't a pay deal. The state breached their employment contract and owed them money they were contractually entitled to.
Where is the ample evidence? The private investigators the state hired to look for evidence of breach of contract found that the vast majority of consultants were working the contractual public hours
.

It's also fairly worrying to see some of the public support the state hiring private investigators against groups of private citizens.

realitykeeper wrote: »

There is already ample evidence that the hospital consultants have worked in private practice while on the taxpayers payroll and the never ending waiting lists are a testament in themselves. Even the waiting lists are the tip of the iceberg because so so many who should have been treated, died waiting for a begrudging consultant whose only interest was to get back to his private patients as quickly as possible.

If you think consultants are the cause of the waiting list then you're delusional. The HSE dictates how many operations can be performed, what types of operations can be performed and when.

realitykeeper wrote: »

Mind you, I am all in favor of private healthcare but consultants must work for one or the other. It is clear these consultants cannot be trusted and they need a boss with the power to sack them to follow them around and to shout at them for slacking off. Consultants should only be paid for what they do and not by the hour.

That's exactly what's happening now. Over the past couple of years there has been an exodus of consultants into private practice only. At the start of this year, the Mater lost 3 of it's Orthopaedic surgeons to private practice, each with their own sub-specialisation which the public has now lost and is very difficult to replace. It's why the HSE is currently experiencing its worst consultant staffing crisis. I believe at the moment we have >150 unfilled consultant posts and of those we have filled there has only been 1-2 applicants.

realitykeeper wrote: »

Finally, hospital spending (like government spending) should stop and every demand for payment scrutinized for value in order to end waste. If a hospital overspends, the claimants should only be allowed claim from the individuals responsible and their personal estate. Am I wrong?

The health service would grind to a halt. Doctors can't clock out at 5pm if work still needs to be done, and we're so poorly staffed that you end up doing the work of multiple people. If a worker can't claim for overtime after working their 100th hour of the week then they will just quit.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Don't a lot of contracts have clauses against you taking up a second role, particularly if it can be argued that it impacts your primary one?

The contract in question required consultants to give up their private practice or significantly reduce their hours and increase their public hours, weekend work and on-call work. The consultants agreed to this in 2008 and implemented all their contractual obligations and have continued to do so despite the DoH not paying their pay increase as per their end of the contract. In fact not only did they not receive the contractual pay increase, consultant pay was then cut by 30% as part of FEMPI cuts.

Deleted User wrote: »

Are the teachers, and all the other victims of FEMPI, going to sue the state now for breach of contract?

This revised contract was not a part of FEMPI.

Anita Blow

Mikenesson wrote: »

As long as they're not using their patients as bait

That's the usual tactic from them

When have they ever used this tactic? The medical profession has has gone on strike once in decades and even then they covered all necessary duties so patients didn't suffer. Even in this case, consultants continued to work the greater public workload despite the HSE reneging on their end of the deal

Mikenesson

Anita Blow wrote: »

When have they ever used this tactic? The medical profession has has gone on strike once in decades and even then they covered all necessary duties so patients didn't suffer. Even in this case, consultants continued to work the greater public workload despite the HSE reneging on their end of the deal

They use patient care as cover or a diversion when they're actually seeking to enrich themselves

They've done it plenty of times in the past

Anita Blow

Mikenesson wrote: »

They use patient care as cover or a diversion when they're actually seeking to enrich themselves

They've done it plenty of times in the past

Like when?

realitykeeper

kneemos wrote: »

Consultants are allowed work publicly and privately.

What you want is a Soviet style set up. What they do outside their allotted public hours is their own business.

But I am talking about what they are doing instead of doing their jobs.

realitykeeper

Mikenesson wrote: »

Pretty sure there is a teacher shortage

People say we are "short" of things in this country without putting it to the market to find out. Ireland once had a fully privatized construction sector, now it doesn`t and lo and behold, construction slows to a crawl. If consultants, teachers etc are ever to get their act together, the public services must end permanently.

Blazer

There's an eye doctor in Cork who specialises in kids eyesight (opthamology).
She's in her mid 60's and trying her best to retire for the past few years but the HSE use the kids as a pressure point as there is only one other as far as I'm aware in the area so she's still working away.
She's probably raking it in but what's the point of it if you can't retire when you want to and kick back and relax.
As someone said consultants salaries might seem high but most of them are worth every penny of it. They study for upto 10 years of medicine and stay uptraining throughout their careers so its damn hard work and not one that any joe soap can do.

realitykeeper

Paulzx wrote: »

Ehhhhhhh.........the consultants sued the state for breach of contract and won.

Why would the state sue them for breach of contract when they've already lost the case.

I'm guessing you're not a member of Mensa

You seem to think that one case resolves everything. The case pertained to a single contract which should never have been on offer in the first place. The state failed to make a counter claim which could be down to stupidity, incompetence or corruption. The judiciary are as bad as the consultants so no surprises there.

You are correct, I am not a member of Mensa but knowledge without wisdom has negative value. For example, a few years ago, really clever people who earned large salaries took out enormous mortgages and then the housing market crashed. They were still clever, just not very wise.

thomasdylan

realitykeeper wrote: »

You seem to think that one case resolves everything. The case pertained to a single contract which should never have been on offer in the first place. The state failed to make a counter claim which could be down to stupidity, incompetence or corruption. The judiciary are as bad as the consultants so no surprises there.

You are correct, I am not a member of Mensa but knowledge without wisdom has negative value. For example, a few years ago, really clever people who earned large salaries took out enormous mortgages and then the housing market crashed. They were still clever, just not very wise.

I imagine there was no counterclaim because there was no legal basis for one. What kind of counterclaim could be offered?

A lot of your comments don't seem to make any sense.

realitykeeper

thomasdylan wrote: »

I imagine there was no counterclaim because there was no legal basis for one. What kind of counterclaim could be offered?

A lot of your comments don't seem to make any sense.

Back pay for work not done. If the state doesn`t make it`s claim, the state won`t get what it is owed from the consultants. The existence of waiting lists is proof of this. There is also the litany of misdiagnosed patients and malpractice claims against the HSE for sloppy work carried out by the consultants. Then there is the unnecessary and expensive practice of outsourcing work that the taxpayers have already paid the contracted consultants to do. Etc.

wonski

realitykeeper wrote: »

Back pay for work not done. If the state doesn`t make it`s claim, the state won`t get what it is owed from the consultants. The existence of waiting lists is proof of this. There is also the litany of misdiagnosed patients and malpractice claims against the HSE for sloppy work carried out by the consultants. Then there is the unnecessary and expensive practice of outsourcing work that the taxpayers have already paid the contracted consultants to do. Etc.

Just my 2c, if you don't mind.

Got injured last year while playing football with guys from work. GP, hospital appointment, x Ray, consultant visit, sent for a scan, another consultant, torn ACL diagnosis. As expected tbh.

All the above took just 3 months, not a bad result considering I took a public route. Very professional, explained everything in detail and have a lot of respect to their work. I have met the surgeon on my last visit, a person who is going to drill your knee etc, so it was a nice touch to the overall experience.

It was after that that my waiting times have slowed down and still awaiting the surgery in Tallaght hospital.
Do you seriously think that it is the consultants fault that it takes so much time to get it done?
I don't think so. They are very dedicated to what they do, you don't become a doctor/consultant to make money. There are easier ways.

I was surprised how quick it went until you actually need a bed for a night in the hospital...

That's where the waiting time starts.

thomasdylan

realitykeeper wrote: »

Back pay for work not done. If the state doesn`t make it`s claim, the state won`t get what it is owed from the consultants. The existence of waiting lists is proof of this. There is also the litany of misdiagnosed patients and malpractice claims against the HSE for sloppy work carried out by the consultants. Then there is the unnecessary and expensive practice of outsourcing work that the taxpayers have already paid the contracted consultants to do. Etc.

That's stream of consciousness not an argument the government could have made.

realitykeeper

thomasdylan wrote: »

That's stream of consciousness not an argument the government could have made.

I disagree. After all, legal teams are made up of lawyers, not quack psychologists.

realitykeeper

wonski wrote: »

Just my 2c, if you don't mind.

Got injured last year while playing football with guys from work. GP, hospital appointment, x Ray, consultant visit, sent for a scan, another consultant, torn ACL diagnosis. As expected tbh.

All the above took just 3 months, not a bad result considering I took a public route. Very professional, explained everything in detail and have a lot of respect to their work. I have met the surgeon on my last visit, a person who is going to drill your knee etc, so it was a nice touch to the overall experience.

It was after that that my waiting times have slowed down and still awaiting the surgery in Tallaght hospital.
Do you seriously think that it is the consultants fault that it takes so much time to get it done?
I don't think so. They are very dedicated to what they do, you don't become a doctor/consultant to make money. There are easier ways.

I was surprised how quick it went until you actually need a bed for a night in the hospital...

That's where the waiting time starts.

Three Months! That`s appalling! If MacDonalds did consultancy you would have been in and out in no time.

pickarooney

When I did my ACL recently I had a diagnosis and prescription for physio within half an hour, and from the best knee surgeon in the area.

Fair enough, he happened to be reffing the match I got injured in, but still...

erica74

It's very easy to blame consultants for the waiting lists etc, when in reality, the public are the main cause of long waiting times. If you are offered an appointment and do not bother to cancel or reschedule and just don't show up on the day, that is an appointment slot wasted that could have been offered to another member of the public. Half a million people failed to show up for appointments last year.

Corruptedmorals

The main cause of our waiting lists is the fact that all hospitals are receiving hundreds of referrals a week and don't have the capacity to see those patients within a decent time frame on top of the review patients already in the system, postoperative patients and emergency referrals from A&E. We have a bigger population who are living much longer.

We need more consultants with bigger teams. It's not the fault of our current consultants.

Most hospitals are validating their waiting lists because people don't bother removing themselves when they've been seen privately or no longer need to be seen. Hospitals are also holding extra clinics outside of regular clinics to see the patients waiting the longest. But nothing will solve the problem with current medical staffing levels.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Given the dire state of the health service,it would have been a deeply meaningful and appreciated gesture to forgo this pay increase.

Only a fool would forgo a pay rise. These are people doing a job, working hard to get where they are so why on earth would they refuse a pay rise? They are people with families and bills too and want to have the best live they can and that means getting they highest pay they can.

I always laugh when people suggest “x” or “y” should not take their pay increase when I’d be certain they themselves would never in a million years turn down a pay rise.

VinLieger

realitykeeper wrote: »

Back pay for work not done.

What work not done?

realitykeeper wrote: »

If the state doesn`t make it`s claim, the state won`t get what it is owed from the consultants. The existence of waiting lists is proof of this.

No its not, there are a multitude of reasons for the waiting lists being as bad as they are. The LACK of consultants is one of them.

realitykeeper wrote: »

There is also the litany of misdiagnosed patients and malpractice claims against the HSE for sloppy work carried out by the consultants.

Ahhh i forgot how easy top tier specialised medicine was that any joe off the street could walk in and practice it perfectly without making any mistakes....

realitykeeper wrote: »

Then there is the unnecessary and expensive practice of outsourcing work that the taxpayers have already paid the contracted consultants to do. Etc.

Evidence please......

EdgeCase

The biggest issue I keep seeing is a lack of resources in primary care that's dumping patients into A&E.

For example, last week a relative of mine was referred (by a gp) to the A&E for a diagnostic, non urgent X Ray. The A&E in a major, acute hospital, known to be overcrowded.

Not only that but she's a patient of the hospital, with a long term illness.

She was just told to go to A&E before 8am

They figured out she didn't need to be there and sent her to the X Ray department in the hospital, where she was seen in 20 mins in absolute calm and very pleasant conditions. All public hospital stuff and absolutely modern, pleasant and very high tech.

I think there's a major issue when you've stuff like this going on and it indicates a big issue with how A&Es are being used and a lack of primary care facilities. Why would a GP be using A&E as a referral point for a patent?

Something very wrong with that approach and shows system failure to me.

It's not entirely about consultants - it's about a system that's not being managed and resources that aren't available in the right areas to reduce queue times.

Subcomandante Marcos

kneemos wrote: »

Consultants are allowed work publicly and privately.

What you want is a Soviet style set up. What they do outside their allotted public hours is their own business.

The problem is that they use public hours to treat private patients, often during public clinic hours at that.

Anita Blow

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

The problem is that they use public hours to treat private patients, often during public clinic hours at that.

Which is incorrect because the state's own private investigators found consultants were working their contracted public hours, which is why the state had to make this settlement without a counter-claim.

EdgeCase

EdgeCase wrote: »

The biggest issue I keep seeing is a lack of resources in primary care that's dumping patients into A&E.

For example, last week a relative of mine was referred (by a gp) to the A&E for a diagnostic, non urgent X Ray. The A&E in a major, acute hospital, known to be overcrowded.

Not only that but she's a patient of the hospital, with a long term illness.

She was just told to go to A&E before 8am

They figured out she didn't need to be there and sent her to the X Ray department in the hospital, where she was seen in 20 mins in absolute calm and very pleasant conditions. All public hospital stuff and absolutely modern, pleasant and very high tech.

I think there's a major issue when you've stuff like this going on and it indicates a big issue with how A&Es are being used and a lack of primary care facilities. Why would a GP be using A&E as a referral point for a patent?

Something very wrong with that approach and shows system failure to me.

It's not entirely about consultants - it's about a system that's not being managed and resources that aren't available in the right areas to reduce queue times.

Out of curiosity was it for a chest xray? I think those and fractures are the only ones that can bypass an appointment like that

wonski

EdgeCase wrote: »

The biggest issue I keep seeing is a lack of resources in primary care that's dumping patients into A&E.

For example, last week a relative of mine was referred (by a gp) to the A&E for a diagnostic, non urgent X Ray. The A&E in a major, acute hospital, known to be overcrowded.

Not only that but she's a patient of the hospital, with a long term illness.

She was just told to go to A&E before 8am

They figured out she didn't need to be there and sent her to the X Ray department in the hospital, where she was seen in 20 mins in absolute calm and very pleasant conditions. All public hospital stuff and absolutely modern, pleasant and very high tech.

I think there's a major issue when you've stuff like this going on and it indicates a big issue with how A&Es are being used and a lack of primary care facilities. Why would a GP be using A&E as a referral point for a patent?

Something very wrong with that approach and shows system failure to me.

It's not entirely about consultants - it's about a system that's not being managed and resources that aren't available in the right areas to reduce queue times.

Gp referral means that the patient only pays for their gp visit, xrays, consultants, scans etc following the referral remain free (except beds in hospital).

A&E is also used to shorten the waiting times for consultants appointments etc. It is just faster this way.

The GP use referrals to A&E to help their patients, to play the system they know better than their patients.

Subcomandante Marcos

bluewolf wrote: »

Out of curiosity was it for a chest xray? I think those and fractures are the only ones that can bypass an appointment like that

If you arrive in A&E with a letter from your GP for something specific that doesn't need immediate medical intervention you can often be passed on to the necessary department very quickly, provided they aren't swamped and have the time to take care of it there and then. Stuff like x-rays and other scans can be done very quickly if they know what they're checking when you arrive and have a spare 15 minutes to throw you under a machine.

The nurses and doctors in A&E and the doctors in the MAU's want simple cases like that in and out as quick as they can so it's not taking up their time or space in their units so if they can run you up a corridor to get a picture of dem bones real quick they will.

That said, we really need proper primary care centres where these sorts of things can be done instead over crowding emergency departments with non-emergency patients.

EdgeCase

It was a back x-ray to assess a swelling but, I'm not going into the specifics but it's linked to on going treatment for a form of cancer.

I would have thought that the referral should have been back to the oncology unit, absolutely not A&E.
The patient is even immunocompromised, so shouldn't really be anywhere near A&E if avoidable.

We are missing a layer of non-urgent specialist services at primary care level that keeps a lot of these things out of acute hospitals, unless they need to be there. I just keep hearing of people being sent to A&E for all sorts of things.

Another example was someone I know who had surgery for cataracts at a private hospital and the advice on all their letters was "if you've a problem and we cannot be reached" (which was pretty likely as they'd quite short office hours) contact your nearest A&E.

Another relative of mine has post op complications involving oedema and leakage from a wound and ended up in A&E due to a private hospital having zero support over a weekend.

It just seems to be a "catch all" for everything, including post operative support.

The whole thing needs to be analysed properly and the correct services and systems put in place.

I don't see the problems in the HSE being resolved as it seems there's an inability to even identify them, never mind resolve them.

The consultants' contracts seem to be more symptomatic of chaotic management / structures and double jobbing being used because the private system is (profitably) being used to paper over the cracks in a very messed up public system.

realitykeeper

erica74 wrote: »

It's very easy to blame consultants for the waiting lists etc, when in reality, the public are the main cause of long waiting times. If you are offered an appointment and do not bother to cancel or reschedule and just don't show up on the day, that is an appointment slot wasted that could have been offered to another member of the public. Half a million people failed to show up for appointments last year.

Lets put that theory to the test by taking appointments out of the equation. A & E departments are a notorious shambles. Therefore appointments aint the issue. Besides it is far more common to hear of consultants cancelling operations than patients cancelling appointments. In my experience, a lot of these appointments are a joke. My company doctor tells me to see a consultant every year, I do. The consultant cannot cure tinnitus so he says "how are you". I say "I have tinnitus." He says "don`t listen to it." I say "grand." Then the state pays the consultant for wasting my time.

realitykeeper

VinLieger wrote: »

What work not done?

The dead, formerly on waiting lists and the sick and the dying on existing lists. As for A & E, don`t get me started.

VinLieger wrote: »

No its not, there are a multitude of reasons for the waiting lists being as bad as they are. The LACK of consultants is one of them.

Consultants are lacking because they are skiving off to the golf course or to private practice instead on doing the work they were paid to do for public patients.

VinLieger wrote: »

Ahhh i forgot how easy top tier specialised medicine was that any joe off the street could walk in and practice it perfectly without making any mistakes....



Evidence please......

What consultants can do is totally irrelevant if they don`t actually do it. This situation where investigative journalists and state agents have to keep tabs of AWOL consultants is another consequence of the dishonorable conduct of hospital consultants.

ohnonotgmail

realitykeeper wrote: »

Lets put that theory to the test by taking appointments out of the equation. A & E departments are a notorious shambles.

and how is this relevant to consultants pay? Do they decide how many beds are available in A+E? do they decide when wards should be opened so that patients can be transferred from A+E to a ward?

realitykeeper wrote: »

Therefore appointments aint the issue. Besides it is far more common to hear of consultants cancelling operations than patients cancelling appointments.

Do you have a source for that? that it is the consultant cancelling the operation rather than a theatre not being available due an emergency surgery or other surgeries overrunning?

realitykeeper wrote: »

In my experience, a lot of these appointments are a joke. My company doctor tells me to see a consultant every year, I do. The consultant cannot cure tinnitus so he says "how are you". I say "I have tinnitus." He says "don`t listen to it." I say "grand." Then the state pays the consultant for wasting my time.

How is that the consultants fault?


It seems to be that you are blaming consultants for all the ills of the health service. which is just complete nonsense.