How your farm animals are raised

I thought it would be good to post some videos (hopefully all shorter than 5 minutes) to show the actual conditions animals have to live in before they enter the food chain.

I’ll keep the thread updated with newer videos as they are made available and from as many different sources as possible.

https://youtu.be/L_vqIGTKuQE

Calves born to keep cows producing milk for human consumption.

https://youtu.be/1oTGe41A8Vo

Cows being farmed.

https://youtu.be/lN_YcWOuVqk

The truth can be hard to watch.

https://youtu.be/T48yOYjz5sk

gozunda

Like nearly all such videos - it's all US and Australian footage. No one I know of would agree with that type of treatment no matter where it is though.

The videos are examples of some conditions of animals being milked etc in the US and Aus. I would also warrant they are extreme examples.

Thankfully in Ireland we have very high welfare standards and family farms are the norm.

So no that's not how our 'farm animals are raised'

Would be great if you don’t turn this into another anti-farming thread Klopp

https://youtu.be/SXYL1NqL8fs

If I’ve linked correctly I think this is in Ireland.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://youtu.be/SXYL1NqL8fs
If I’ve linked correctly I think this is in Ireland.

Still not how 'our animals are raised' tbh..

Quite rightly that person was brought to trial - the correct thing was done. No-one I know would advocate that type of behaviour.

However what I find astonishing is that many vegan campaigners such as joee carbstrong and others publicly state they do not support any animal welfare improvements or legislation.

It is ironic therefore that the same vegans then use footage of extreme examples like the above to promote their brand of veganism....

I find that stance both dishonest and frankly hypocritical. :mad:

Take for example the many instances of illegal and dangerous driving in thus country. Should we seek to then to ban all vehicles on the basis of those few bad drivers?

No because our laws and legislation is there to prosecute those that break our laws. The same rule applies to anyone breaking the law in relation to animal welfare. It is also beholden for all of us - to support the best welfare policies possible.

You said how thankfully in Ireland it’s different but that case above shows it not.

And as I’ve said before, it’s not about Ireland or Irish farmers.

jive

gozunda wrote: »

However what I find astonishing is that many vegan campaigners such as joee carbstrong and others publicly state they do not support any animal welfare improvements or legislation.

It is ironic therefore that the same vegans then use footage of extreme examples like the above to promote their brand of veganism

Vegans typically believe in animals liberation and not animal welfare in which the animal is ultimately killed. How does that make the above ironic? Surely you understand this most basic facet of their ‘brand’ of veganism as you seem to refer to them so regularly.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You said how thankfully in Ireland it’s different but that case above shows it not. And as I’ve said before, it’s not about Ireland or Irish farmers.

I said and I quote "Thankfully in Ireland we have very high welfare standards and family farms are the norm". Hence the successful prosecution based on those legal standards detailed in that news report.

The "Your" used in your thread title is an obvious and pathetic attempt to mislead those in Ireland into believing that is somehow "How Your animals are raised" ...

Yet another anti farming thread by Klopp

Fair warning. This is a very hard watch.

The life of the chicken on your plate -

https://youtu.be/pixGkSFBty0

Tough choices if this behaviour is standard practice -

https://youtu.be/LW5twv-AIS4

Blaas4life

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fair warning. This is a very hard watch.

The life of the chicken in your plate -
l]

What of those who rear our own animals and grow our own food as much as possible??


You do raise serious issues about animal cruelty and tbh I would be in favour of banning people from having pets aswell


The life of chickens in particular I couldn't bring myself to eat chicken when out anymore after it...

PucaMama

Don’t worry op our household buys Irish produce which is fine since none of this happens here

gozunda

Blaas4life wrote: »

What of those who rear our own animals and grow our own food as much as possible??

You do raise serious issues about animal cruelty and tbh I would be in favour of banning people from having pets aswell

The life of chickens in particular I couldn't bring myself to eat chicken when out anymore after it...

The issue at hand here is that those using exteme footage - do so as as propaganda and do not support animal welfare. Many of the principal movers and thinkers of that specific vegan fraction not only seek to exterminate farm animals from the planet - but also seek to eradicate wild carnivores from existence. Do not be led to believe that the same interests have concern for these animals - these videos serve only as propaganda to spread a specific agenda - one where there is no human animal interactions, where entrophy is denied and ultimately a planet where supremacists act as god over all species. A truely dystopian vision ...

Blaas4life

Blaas4life wrote: »

What of those who rear our own animals and grow our own food as much as possible??


You do raise serious issues about animal cruelty and tbh I would be in favour of banning people from having pets aswell


The life of chickens in particular I couldn't bring myself to eat chicken when out anymore after it...

I think it’s factory ‘farming’ where the problems lie.

PucaMama

PucaMama wrote: »

Don’t worry op our household buys Irish produce which is fine since none of this happens here

https://youtu.be/SXYL1NqL8fs

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://youtu.be/SXYL1NqL8fs

And more propaganda apparently squeezed from one news report. It remains Ireland has legislation in place that supports very good welfare standards. As in that news report as for dangerous drivers - such behaviour is abhorrent and those who use extremes for the purposes propaganda are at best disingenuous

Eamonn8448

OP do you know how plants are raised in Ireland , lost count of how many pigeons and crows ive shot, rabbits are scarce enough but shot a few, not going to even attempt to estimate how many insects were killed by sprays. Next time you eat your Irish greens just remember blood was shed to put that food on your plate and before you go all snowflake we do it just to make ends meat , margins are tight enough as it is.
On the animal welfare part here most farmers want to make max profit which means happy healthy animals, a few bad farmers around alright but they are a dying breed, trying to blacken everyone is just downright unfair.
you made a choice to be vegan and thats fair enough in my book but have a proper look at where the food you eat comes from and how its grown before you start spreading this bs and misinformation.
i will grow you veg where minimum damage was done to insects/animals but you willing to pay the price it costs?

eezipc

PucaMama wrote: »

Don’t worry op our household buys Irish produce which is fine since none of this happens here

Front cover of todays Daily Mail may suggest otherwise.

eezipc

eezipc wrote: »

Front cover of todays Daily Mail may suggest otherwise.

Any chance of a link to that article ?

Thanks.

eezipc

eezipc wrote: »

Front cover of todays Daily Mail may suggest otherwise.

Just read the article on Twitter.

Pretty horrendous stuff.

So much for strict EU regulations.

Is it safe to assume this could be fairly standard practice ?

I wonder if they will release the actual footage.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any chance of a link to that article ?

Thanks.

Not sure if I’ve done this right.

https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-daily-mail/20180618/281724090266348

Tar.Aldarion

Have had to delete a lot of posts on here, any more posts about recipes with animals in them, blatant whataboutism and so on will not be tolerated and will result in bans.
Feel free to discuss links and keep on topic

Tar.Aldarion

On a personal note much of the food we eat does not come from Ireland, particularly in processed foods but also with other produce, we also export animals to places with lower standards/different practices so sometimes what happens in other countries can be important to us also. It can be important to factor this into your purchases when you make them.

There is also a video OP put together about Ireland on youtube, that everybody can go wild discussing accuracies/inaccuracies with each other:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBy5BqCv4us

Tar.Aldarion

Deleted User wrote: »

Not sure if I’ve done this right.

https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-daily-mail/20180618/281724090266348

This is a picture of the paper:

Yeah. I read the article.

‘Thousands of calves every month’.

Shocking stuff. There is so much hidden from the public’s eye when it comes to animals.

The mantra of ‘it doesn’t happen here in Ireland where we have strict regulations’ means absolutely nothing. Hot air.

Farmers talk of tight margins as the reason they treat their animals so well but the opposite could just as easily be true just like this article shows.

gozunda

Yea read that article ^^. Having read the story in full - it boils down to hauliers allegedly missing a rest stop for the transported animals on way to the Netherlands. The hauliers says the route taken plus rest stops was approved. Who is correct?

Of note the alleged rearing conditions do not not take place in Ireland. .

What ever anyone may believe about eating veal or otherwise - the language is indeed shocking. Shockingly bad e.g. "thousands of baby calves etc" - translates from bad English to actually mean 'baby babies' (sic).

The two week old calves magically become three weeks old half way through the article.

The article also goes on repeatedly about calves 'lowing' - detailing that this is "the familiar 'lowing' sound when they are seeking their mothers" ...

That is complete billox and is another example of sensationalism as 'lowing' is in fact the term normally used to describe the normal deep low sound characteristic of cattle. Never heard used by farmers to describe calves calling for others tbh.

The article also makes a huhaw about standard group type cattle housing ie slated units. That type of housing is used and approved within the EU. However Calves of a couple of weeks ime are rarely housed on that type of concrete slat due to danger of falling and hurting their legs.

Leaving aside the sensationalism - I would like to see more of what is actually the story between the DoA and the hauliers in question. There is little if any reporting on that actual story and instead the article warbles off all over the place about 'baby babies' and 'lowing calves bs

Considering that these animals are not slaughtered until eight or nine months when they are not 'babies' is completely glossed over.

This from the group - Compassion in World Farming

The EU provides significant protection for veal calves by requiring group housing beyond eight weeks of age and fibrous rations beyond two weeks of age. Some EU countries, such as the UK, provide additional protections above the EU minimum.

See:

https://www.ciwf.com/farm-animals/cows/veal-calves/

Please note the stark difference between the US and the EU as detailed previously.

I do hope the DoA get to the truth of this story though it does not surprise me that the usual suspects are buttering up this piece with frankly fairly rubbish sensationalist commentary ...

gozunda

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

On a personal note much of the food we eat does not come from Ireland, particularly in processed foods but also with other produce, we also export animals to places with lower standards/different practices so sometimes what happens in other countries can be important to us also. It can be important to factor this into your purchases when you make them.

There is also a video OP put together about Ireland on youtube, that everybody can go wild discussing accuracies/inaccuracies with each other:

I agree with the issue of imported foods and standards. Something many vegans and non vegans apparently ignore when buying imported foods both processed and otherwise.

That said anyone can find stories that show the worse of just about everything eg:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/16/vegans-stomach-unpalatable-truth-quinoa

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/04/why-almond-milk-is-so-controversial.html

Yea saw the video you listed before - at nearly an hour long I think we would need to dedicate a whole forum just to start tbh.

Btw are you saying that Klopp as the OP put the video together or did I read that incorrectly?

Jesus this is heartbreaking.

https://youtu.be/CsgZr2v4VGo

Eamonn8448

`OP you not going to reply to me ? Ignorance is bliss and all that but im on the frontline , i supply your cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower leeks, potatoes, turnips etc, Im telling you for a fact that animals are harmed in the production of veg - we call them pests , lets see you do it in your vegan way or just ignore the normal and pretend these things dont happen - without farmers you starve and i for one is bloody ashamed to feed an idiot like you , go spread your poison but without us people like you cant live
Any vegan here is welcome to come down and see if you can do it any better , we are slaves to the land not to your cult

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Jesus this is heartbreaking.

How your farm animals are raised

...


Somewhat concerning that at the end of video allegedly filmed in Mexico the presenter actively promotes - quote
"Delicious and cruelty free plant based alternatives".
Feels like a very bad product placement for the competing 'plant based alternatives' industry tbh ...

Call me just a little bit sceptical but a quick search throws up the chemical company Du Pont looking to develop their plant based foods in Mexicio ....

https://www.foodnavigator-latam.com/Article/2017/10/09/Economic-challenges-slow-Mexico-s-adoption-of-new-trends

Yup big business is your friend...

Yeah. It’s all about humans and animals. Not about nationalities.

Don’t be offended if I don’t reply.

Eamonn8448

gozunda wrote: »

Ok Mexico this time ...

Somewhat concerning that the end of video actively promotes
"Delicious and cruelty free plant based alternatives".
Feels like a very bad product placement for the competing 'plant based alternatives' industry tbh ...

they are never going to learn - noble ideas just not practical, i worked for a day in an abattoir when i was 19, didnt like it because one minute your trying to do your best on a farm to look after them and the next your watching a bunch of townie **** laughing to try and save face, never seen any cruelty there infact was very controlled got given out to about wearing a watch over hygiene , those animals are killed quick and clean ive been there and seen it and may i add seen many a farmer walk up the killing line to make sure they are ok - those animals never suffered unlike the rabbits i half hit and screamed with a shotgun - do i feel guilty yeah but you lot tell me how its done better ?
This man who i quoted knows the truth so why cant you ?

lolo62

Eamonn8448 wrote: »

they are never going to learn - noble ideas just not practical, i worked for a day in an abattoir when i was 19, didnt like it because one minute your trying to do your best on a farm to look after them and the next your watching a bunch of townie **** laughing to try and save face, never seen any cruelty there infact was very controlled got given out to about wearing a watch over hygiene , those animals are killed quick and clean ive been there and seen it and may i add seen many a farmer walk up the killing line to make sure they are ok - those animals never suffered unlike the rabbits i half hit and screamed with a shotgun - do i feel guilty yeah but you lot tell me how its done better ?
This man who i quoted knows the truth so why cant you ?

I'm sure if you directed some of the energy you're putting into this thread, instead into researching alternative ways to deal with your rabbit problem, besides half hitting them with your shotgun, you could come up with something. But it seems you find antagonising vegans about their concerns for despicable animal cruelty that happens consistently on farms (not all farms, no one is saying all farmers are bad), way more worthy of your time.

Lady Haywire

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus this is heartbreaking.

https://youtu.be/CsgZr2v4VGo

Riiight. Firstly this is Mexico, not Ireland.

Yes a cow is put incalf, she's generally AI'd for various reasons but it is considered much safer than a bull and is also done in racehorses, dogs and animals in zoos. I think it's French bulldogs that can't get pregnant or give birth naturally?
No calf is sent to the slaughterhouse at a few days old. Plus females who are twin to male calves are not fertile so are not kept on for milk production. These are basic things to know so little miss chatty there on the video isn't much into her cattle. Plus they do not suffer for weeks after ffs. I've had cows try to kill a twin calf cause they don't know what it is. Calves roar after they are born just like human babies. It's not because they're ripped away form the cows.

Tail docking is illegal here. As is dehorning without anesthetic.
Magnets being put down their throat is also uncommon, it's literally like yourself swallowing a large table, the only reason the metal rod is used is to put it to the back of the throat so it's not spat out. Also, that could very well be a vitamin bolus either. I've no way of knowing and wouldn't believe what's being spoken anyway.
Any milk-producing mammal can get mastitis, it's not solely because they're 'genetically chosen for large milk production'. I've had plenty of cows here get it and we leave the calves on the cows. None of the cows in that video have mastitis, their udders are hanging because they're older cows and just like women (shock-horror!) they get a bit saggy with age.

One point i will agree on that video is the lack of veterinary care I see. It's senseless and cruel.

Lady Haywire

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Riiight. Firstly this is Mexico, not Ireland.

Yes a cow is put incalf, she's generally AI'd for various reasons but it is considered much safer than a bull and is also done in racehorses, dogs and animals in zoos. I think it's French bulldogs that can't get pregnant or give birth naturally?
No calf is sent to the slaughterhouse at a few days old. Plus females who are twin to male calves are not fertile so are not kept on for milk production. These are basic things to know so little miss chatty there on the video isn't much into her cattle. Plus they do not suffer for weeks after ffs. I've had cows try to kill a twin calf cause they don't know what it is. Calves roar after they are born just like human babies. It's not because they're ripped away form the cows.

Tail docking is illegal here. As is dehorning without anesthetic.
Magnets being put down their throat is also uncommon, it's literally like yourself swallowing a large table, the only reason the metal rod is used is to put it to the back of the throat so it's not spat out. Also, that could very well be a vitamin bolus either. I've no way of knowing and wouldn't believe what's being spoken anyway.
Any milk-producing mammal can get mastitis, it's not solely because they're 'genetically chosen for large milk production'. I've had plenty of cows here get it and we leave the calves on the cows. None of the cows in that video have mastitis, their udders are hanging because they're older cows and just like women (shock-horror!) they get a bit saggy with age.

One point i will agree on that video is the lack of veterinary care I see. It's senseless and cruel.

The footage taken is fallout of the meat and dairy industry existing and some people are now thinking it’s not necessary anymore.

The facts are that this footage is real.

All videos uploaded are real.

Does it really matter where it’s happening ?

Are people saying unequivocally is doesn’t happen in Ireland and the UK ?

If taking a stand against something in the world should we only concern ourselves with what’s happening in our own country ?

Is that true of racism, sexism, homophobia and so on ?

https://youtu.be/xcR76gERgRk

More reasons to stop eating milk and dairy and cut down on animals suffering unnecessarily.

Lady Haywire

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The facts are that this footage is real.

All videos uploaded are real.

Does it really matter where it’s happening ?

Are people saying unequivocally is doesn’t happen in Ireland and the UK ?

If taking a stand against something in the world should we only concern ourselves with what’s happening in our own country ?

Is that true of racism, sexism, homophobia and so on ?

I never said the footage wasn't real? I stated it was in Mexico which does have more lax standards of care towards animals. You just failed to mention that in your post so thought I'd point it out.
I'm not saying some of it doesn't happen here but a good part of what's in that video is standard practice if a bit rough with a syrupy voice saying it's wrong. And yes it does matter where it's happening because farmers here and in other parts of the world have wild variations on welfare and standards. So it's not fair for Joe down the road to be accused of cruelty to his cows when he's doing nothing wrong except milking them twice a day.
Or maybe you're taking a stand against the world so you're showing us what happens over there and we can tell you what's wrong with the video, is that it? Would it not be better to see what's being done correctly in countries with high welfare standards and implement it in countries where standards are low. Because that would probably get a lot more support from all sides.
Though maybe that's too sensible and all the dear ickle cows must be freed from their captors.

And I'm not bringing racism, sexism or homophobia into it because I've yet to see a racist, sexist or homophobic farm animal. But if you do find one please let me know, think of the hits on YouTube!

Mooooo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The facts are that this footage is real.

All videos uploaded are real.

Does it really matter where it’s happening ?

Are people saying unequivocally is doesn’t happen in Ireland and the UK ?

If taking a stand against something in the world should we only concern ourselves with what’s happening in our own country ?

Is that true of racism, sexism, homophobia and so on ?

By the same token there have been cases around the world of babies dying due to the parents insisting on a vegan diet from birth. One in Holland or Belgium I think where the parents owned a vegan shop. The child died at a few months old at s lower weight than it's birth weight so appears to have been slowly starved to death. That is one of a few bad cases. Do we tar all vegans or vegan parents because of that case? No we don't. Do we say veganism shouldn't exist because of those bad cases? No we don't. Yet you apply the opposite criteria to farming

_Brian

Deleted User wrote: »

https://youtu.be/SXYL1NqL8fs

If I’ve linked correctly I think this is in Ireland.

But you can see by the fact that this monster was jailed that Irish society and farmers as a whole won’t stand for this sort of treatment of animals.

I’ve worked on farms and with farmers near all my life and can be sure that the vast, vast majority of farmers have the highest standards for their animals.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

If it doesn't matter where something is happening from a moral perspective (and I agree it doesn't) then why not mention where it happens? You bring up other injustices and how we can care about them on a global level, but what would you think of a thread titled "what is happening to your gay people" and it was a load of videos from Uganda and Russia?

The phrasing of the thread title is misleading, maybe deliberately so, maybe not. If you have right on your side, you shouldn't need to do that.

ganmo

_Brian wrote: »

But you can see by the fact that this monster was jailed that Irish society and farmers as a whole won’t stand for this sort of treatment of animals.

I’ve worked on farms and with farmers near all my life and can be sure that the vast, vast majority of farmers have the highest standards for their animals.

More recently there was a pig farmer who was brought to the WRC because he fired an employee for the cruelty they showed towards the animals

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/worker-awarded-30k-over-pig-farm-dismissal-455585.html

_Brian

As someone who farms cattle, keeps pigs for our own table and chickens for eggs I welcome every single prosecution regarding the mistreatment of animals.

I appreciate that farming of animals isn’t accepted among many here but everyone gets to have their position. I was brought up to respect farmed animals and provide them with nothing short of the best possible feed and conditions. I teach my own kids the very same values. My experience is that these are the values among the vast majority of farmers and the rest need a bright light shon on them.

I’m sickened by the mistreatment videos that are taken but they serve a very important purpose. Equally they should in no way be promoted as standard practice among the farming community.

In the same way that not all vegans/vegitarians are extremists, not all farmers are monsters and not all animals are mistreated.

lolo62

_Brian wrote: »

As someone who farms cattle, keeps pigs for our own table and chickens for eggs I welcome every single prosecution regarding the mistreatment of animals.

I appreciate that farming of animals isn’t accepted among many but everyone gets to have their position. I was brought up to respect farmed animals and provide them with nothing short of the best possible feed and conditions. I teach my own kids the very same values. My experience is that these are the values among the vast majority of farmers and the rest need a bright light shin on them.

I’m sickened by the mistreatment videos that are taken but they serve a very important purpose. Equally they should in no way be promoted as standard practice among the farming community.

In the same way that not all vegans/vegitarians are extremists, not all farmers are monsters and not all animals are mistreated.

Well said. Thank you

Large quantities of your rashers, sausages and ham are not Irish even if the labelling says otherwise.

This from the makers of Denny, Galtee and roscrea -

"We cannot guarantee on a 52-week year basis that all our pigmeat is Irish and the reason is serious fluctuation of demand in the market," he said.

"That means we cannot always source the particular muscle specification and cut for a product in Ireland, but it would be impossible to alter packaging at short notice to reflect that," he added.

He said Kerry Foods was the biggest purchaser of Irish pigmeat in the country, and all its labelling claims such as "the taste the nation loves" were true.

Full article here -

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/large-amount-of-pork-eaten-here-imported-despite-full-irish-image-26730657.html

Seems fair to say, from what I’ve read, that about 50% of the pork consumed in Ireland is imported.

The country or origin is unknown.

Tar.Aldarion

tatranska post deleted, post seriously and on topic.

Mooooo

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That is one thing I thought about for a bit.
Since these animals where deliberately bred by humans for one purpose only, they serve no natural purpose. Keeping them for the sake of it is pointless.
Animals in the wild have to be protected, because they serve a purpose in nature, whilst farm animals are a drain on nature. They consume water, food, heat and electricity, areas of nature have to be destroyed to make pastures for them and hundreds of tons of slurry are being dumped on the land.
Not just Ireland, but globally. To think that this doesn't have a massive ecological impact would be naive.

Use the same type of analysis and look into crop production and it's requirements. It's a balance of both that's needed

Mooooo

Mooooo wrote: »

Use the same type of analysis and look into crop production and it's requirements. It's a balance of both that's needed

http://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat