What are Eir doing about nuisance calls?

So recently my wife has been bombarded by nuisance calls from a number of numbers, it started out pretty bad but each day it is getting worse and wore with her receiving 12 calls from these numbers yesterday, 7 the day beforehand and already today there has been 5. I get on average of 5 or 6 nuisance calls a week so am able to ignore them but it's getting to the point for her where these calls are a major inconvenience.

She contacted your support and as you can see from the attached image absolutely no help or solution was forthcoming with her being told that Eir cannot block numbers and when these calls come through not to give them any details.  



It's an absolute joke that you claim to be able to do nothing about this and that all she can do is put up with it. 

Just to update, she has got 7 calls in the last 7 hours from these nuisance numbers. 

ED E

Use her handset to block the number ranges. Say they come from 0086 (China) then block 0086* and nobody will be able to call her again. After a few prime countries (Albania for example), itll stop.

This is the same with all telcos. 

ED E

ED E wrote:

Use her handset to block the number ranges. Say they come from 0086 (China) then block 0086* and nobody will be able to call her again. After a few prime countries (Albania for example), itll stop.

Not all handsets have that option.

eir: Thomas

Deleted User wrote: »

So recently my wife has been bombarded by nuisance calls from a number of numbers, it started out pretty bad but each day it is getting worse and wore with her receiving 12 calls from these numbers yesterday, 7 the day beforehand and already today there has been 5. I get on average of 5 or 6 nuisance calls a week so am able to ignore them but it's getting to the point for her where these calls are a major inconvenience.

She contacted your support and as you can see from the attached image absolutely no help or solution was forthcoming with her being told that Eir cannot block numbers and when these calls come through not to give them any details.  



It's an absolute joke that you claim to be able to do nothing about this and that all she can do is put up with it. 

Hi Darko,

If customers receive unsolicited calls we would recommend. Never disclose any information particularly personal or financial information.Do not respond to calls or messages from an unknown source. If Customers have provided personal bank account or credit card details please advise them to contact their bank immediately to advise that their details have been compromised. The financial institution will be in a position to advise regarding cancelling bank or credit cards

 
Customers who have chosen to opt in for contact from eir may be contacted by staff members on occasion as part of outbound promotional campaigns. As part of such calls should the Customers query the legitimacy of the caller, the staff member can add a note to the customer’s account that the Customer can independently query with any of our Customer facing teams at any time.

From time to time eir will send messages containing links with relevant service information. Such links will never direct the Customer to a website that will require them to input personal (other than an email address) or financial information.

Thanks

Thomas

eir: Thomas

eir: Thomas wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

So recently my wife has been bombarded by nuisance calls from a number of numbers, it started out pretty bad but each day it is getting worse and wore with her receiving 12 calls from these numbers yesterday, 7 the day beforehand and already today there has been 5. I get on average of 5 or 6 nuisance calls a week so am able to ignore them but it's getting to the point for her where these calls are a major inconvenience.

She contacted your support and as you can see from the attached image absolutely no help or solution was forthcoming with her being told that Eir cannot block numbers and when these calls come through not to give them any details.  



It's an absolute joke that you claim to be able to do nothing about this and that all she can do is put up with it. 

Hi Darko,

If customers receive unsolicited calls we would recommend. Never disclose any information particularly personal or financial information.Do not respond to calls or messages from an unknown source. If Customers have provided personal bank account or credit card details please advise them to contact their bank immediately to advise that their details have been compromised. The financial institution will be in a position to advise regarding cancelling bank or credit cards

 
Customers who have chosen to opt in for contact from eir may be contacted by staff members on occasion as part of outbound promotional campaigns. As part of such calls should the Customers query the legitimacy of the caller, the staff member can add a note to the customer’s account that the Customer can independently query with any of our Customer facing teams at any time.

From time to time eir will send messages containing links with relevant service information. Such links will never direct the Customer to a website that will require them to input personal (other than an email address) or financial information.

Thanks

Thomas

So basically what you are saying is that Eir are doing absolutely nothing about these calls? Are you actually serious? Is it because it would take a little hard work or simply that Eir are incompetent? 

eir: Thomas

Deleted User wrote: »

eir: Thomas wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

So recently my wife has been bombarded by nuisance calls from a number of numbers, it started out pretty bad but each day it is getting worse and wore with her receiving 12 calls from these numbers yesterday, 7 the day beforehand and already today there has been 5. I get on average of 5 or 6 nuisance calls a week so am able to ignore them but it's getting to the point for her where these calls are a major inconvenience.

She contacted your support and as you can see from the attached image absolutely no help or solution was forthcoming with her being told that Eir cannot block numbers and when these calls come through not to give them any details.  



It's an absolute joke that you claim to be able to do nothing about this and that all she can do is put up with it. 

Hi Darko,

If customers receive unsolicited calls we would recommend. Never disclose any information particularly personal or financial information.Do not respond to calls or messages from an unknown source. If Customers have provided personal bank account or credit card details please advise them to contact their bank immediately to advise that their details have been compromised. The financial institution will be in a position to advise regarding cancelling bank or credit cards

 
Customers who have chosen to opt in for contact from eir may be contacted by staff members on occasion as part of outbound promotional campaigns. As part of such calls should the Customers query the legitimacy of the caller, the staff member can add a note to the customer’s account that the Customer can independently query with any of our Customer facing teams at any time.

From time to time eir will send messages containing links with relevant service information. Such links will never direct the Customer to a website that will require them to input personal (other than an email address) or financial information.

Thanks

Thomas

So basically what you are saying is that Eir are doing absolutely nothing about these calls? Are you actually serious? Is it because it would take a little hard work or simply that Eir are incompetent? 

I would reccomend ignoring all unsolicited calls you receive.

Thanks

Thomas

eir: Thomas

eir: Thomas wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

eir: Thomas wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

So recently my wife has been bombarded by nuisance calls from a number of numbers, it started out pretty bad but each day it is getting worse and wore with her receiving 12 calls from these numbers yesterday, 7 the day beforehand and already today there has been 5. I get on average of 5 or 6 nuisance calls a week so am able to ignore them but it's getting to the point for her where these calls are a major inconvenience.

She contacted your support and as you can see from the attached image absolutely no help or solution was forthcoming with her being told that Eir cannot block numbers and when these calls come through not to give them any details.  



It's an absolute joke that you claim to be able to do nothing about this and that all she can do is put up with it. 

Hi Darko,

If customers receive unsolicited calls we would recommend. Never disclose any information particularly personal or financial information.Do not respond to calls or messages from an unknown source. If Customers have provided personal bank account or credit card details please advise them to contact their bank immediately to advise that their details have been compromised. The financial institution will be in a position to advise regarding cancelling bank or credit cards

 
Customers who have chosen to opt in for contact from eir may be contacted by staff members on occasion as part of outbound promotional campaigns. As part of such calls should the Customers query the legitimacy of the caller, the staff member can add a note to the customer’s account that the Customer can independently query with any of our Customer facing teams at any time.

From time to time eir will send messages containing links with relevant service information. Such links will never direct the Customer to a website that will require them to input personal (other than an email address) or financial information.

Thanks

Thomas

So basically what you are saying is that Eir are doing absolutely nothing about these calls? Are you actually serious? Is it because it would take a little hard work or simply that Eir are incompetent? 

I would reccomend ignoring all unsolicited calls you receive.

Thanks

Thomas

Genius advise there Thomas, we would never have thought of that and in fact, have been answering them all and giving out our bank details.

Are you telling me that there is nothing Eir can or is willing to do about scammers trying to exploit their customers? Surely these phone numbers can be blocked once reported as other companies do? For my wife it is an inconvenience to get 16 calls yesterday from these numbers but for many people it can be much worse as these scumbag prey on vulnerable people and surely Eir has a duty of care to do their best to block scammers.

Sorry are you saying that Eir can't block numbers as Eir use the same people who scam customers to do work on behalf of Eir?

eir: Thomas

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry are you saying that Eir can't block numbers as Eir use the same people who scam customers to do work on behalf of Eir?

We cannot block these numbers, depending on n the handset you may have the ability to block them yourself.

Thanks

Thomas

Ash.J.Williams

between these answers and their 0% coverage outside of dublin...

EdgeCase

There’s relatively little network operators can do about this. As the calls are usually originating overseas, beyond EU law on unscrupulous VoIP gateways that fake caller ID information.

The number displayed is just whatever was sent. That can be set to anything by a dodgy network operator.

Telephone networks are not designed to be spam filters. They all (globally) still use an aging signaling system called SS7 that originated in the 1970s and was built fo an era when every operator was a licenced and regulated (often monopoly) phone company that could be trusted.

That was integrated with unregulated VoIP in quite a few countries with weak regulatory environments which are allowing vast amount of spam calls to enter the international SS7 networks and the switches (exchanges) were never designed with this in mind.

Some of them could detect things like calls being dialed to every number in a block, but this traffic is deliberately designed to be hard to detect. They’ll send calls to random number and use multiple IDs and even send the traffic distributed from gateways scattered around the world to avoid being blocked.

Some mobile operators, notably in the US where the has been a huge problem for longer than here, have got subscription based spam call blockers. I have yet to see that emerge in Europe.

You can also install third party apps that will look up caller ID for incoming calls, check it against a known spam caller list and silence / block calls that are flagged as spam.

Unfortunately, this is a growing problem and one that will gave to be tackled. There needs to be some way of verifying caller ID authenticity and as yet, that doesn’t exist in the international networks.

If Eir or anyone else blocks calls at the network level, there’s a risk of blocking legitimate calls too.

If the volume of these calls in Ireland grows, I think the whole industry and comreg will have to act. We get a lot more of them than non English speaking markets.

Blocking individual numbers tends to be pointless as they can just send any random number they like. Even spam call could even have a different caller ID in some cases!

The whole thing is a mess and it’s not just eir. It’s the technology and poor regulation that’s beyond Irish or EU or even in many cases global bodies like the ITU’s control.

eir: Thomas

eir: Thomas wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry are you saying that Eir can't block numbers as Eir use the same people who scam customers to do work on behalf of Eir?

We cannot block these numbers, depending on n the handset you may have the ability to block them yourself.

Thanks

Thomas

What are Eir doing to stop this harassment of Eir customers?

EdgeCase

EdgeCase wrote: »

There’s relatively little network operators can do about this. As the calls are usually originating overseas, beyond EU law on unscrupulous VoIP gateways that fake caller ID information.

I don't buy that given that there are third-party apps that can block these calls. My wife as a last resort installed one yesterday and it stopped 19 calls from these numbers and didn't block any normal calls. 

EdgeCase

Still doesn’t mean it’s even possible at network level because of the nature of the tech involved and also because of how the whole thing is regulated.

Telephone network switches are pretty primitive tech compared to what an app can do on your handset.
The landline network in particular is absolutely ancient digital tech from 20-30 years ago.

They’re not necessarily capable of doing some of this at network side. Your locally installed app is actually far more capable than the network, which was not designed to do any of this stuff natively and has very limited intelligence.

They just do high volumes of very simple things - switching calls and so on. They’re just big dumb, often who’re old, equivalent of routers.

Mobile networks would be more modern but you’re somewhat stuck with rather old tech until the landline networks complete their move to modern soft switches and VoIP.

You’ve also got all sorts of diffficlties in how contracts for termination of calls on other networks are setup and how the sector’s regulated.

The only way this is going to get proper resolved is with new tech and a complete change of how caller ID is authenticated and how things are regulated in the EU and beyond.

For example where networks have blocked traffic entirely from rogue operators / countries they’ve ended up with issues with contractual obligations. You also have issues with overzealous filtering that hits legitimate calls.

It’s just not as possible as it seems. The networks don’t run on modern internet server like tech.

I’m not trying to excuse Eir here but the problem is very much industry wide and international.

It also ties into data theft / mining by the likes of unscrupulous apps that have siphoned off people’s entire phone books and sold them to data brokers and so on. So there’s some hope the new GDPR data protection legislation may help too. However, vast amounts of data, including names and phone numbers have already been grabbed. All it takes is is someone has your details in their mobile, they download some dodgy app and grant it access to their contacts and ... hey presto, your name, number and whatever else they might have had store about you (including possibly SMS message content and call history) is on someone's server somewhere quite possibly way beyond the reach of the law. That is the most likely reason some people are absolutely bombarded with spam.

For now, installing filtering apps is probably the best approach possible as they can keep up with the changing threats far faster than any network side solution could.

The only other advice is don’t even engage in a conversation with these calls. Immediately hang up when you receive them. Any interaction means you’re being logged as a working number / potential target.

If you see a weird number either don’t respond at all or pick up and immediately hang up. After a while, they may mark your number as useless and stop ringing.

The mobile and landline operators here and Comreg definitely need to start taking this a lot more seriously, as if they don’t, people will start moving even more increasingly away from traditional voice services, treating calls with suspicion and being ever more likely to prefer verified services like WhatsApp and so on. Voice phone services could well end up as useless as a spammy email account. That’s what’s happened in the USA and it’s why some American telcos have finallu begun to take it seriously.

By not coming up with a solution to this, the telcos are shortening their own lifespan and face a future as dumb pipes only providing ISP internet access.

The point remains that Eir have stated that there is nothing they can do but when a third part can find a solution then it points to the sheer incompetence of lack of care from Eir. You can dress it up any way you want and we know that it is not an easy problem to fix but so far Eir's only response to the issue is to do nothing.

eir: Thomas

Deleted User wrote: »

The point remains that Eir have stated that there is nothing they can do but when a third part can find a solution then it points to the sheer incompetence of lack of care from Eir. You can dress it up any way you want and we know that it is not an easy problem to fix but so far Eir's only response to the issue is to do nothing.

I completely understand your frustrations at this time.

Thanks

Thomas

Twelve Bar Blues

Deleted User wrote: »

The point remains that Eir have stated that there is nothing they can do but when a third part can find a solution then it points to the sheer incompetence of lack of care from Eir. You can dress it up any way you want and we know that it is not an easy problem to fix but so far Eir's only response to the issue is to do nothing.

AFAIK, and from previously working with a company similar to eir, it is not possible for the service provider to block numbers for you.
eir have said so (in a very unclear and distracting way....), and the other poster, who seems to have quite a bit of knowledge on the subject, has advised a number of the possible reasons why. Don't think you will get any further here on this subject. 
Have you checked if your wifes' phone has the facility to block numbers? My issue with scam calls I'm receiving is that I'm getting them from withheld numbers, so even though my handset does allow me to block specific numbers, there is NO way that I can block calls from withheld numbers. One day I received 9 calls in 90mins. I totally understand your frustration.

eir: Thomas

eir: Thomas wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

The point remains that Eir have stated that there is nothing they can do but when a third part can find a solution then it points to the sheer incompetence of lack of care from Eir. You can dress it up any way you want and we know that it is not an easy problem to fix but so far Eir's only response to the issue is to do nothing.

I completely understand your frustrations at this time.

Thanks

Thomas

Great. but the only frustration I have is with Eir inept support staff such as yourself. So far you have been useless and offered no solution other than the obvious. Why is it that Eir are not able to do anything about this issue but a third party is?

EdgeCase

It’s frustrating but it’s also not something they can solve on their own.

Eir is significant in Ireland but they’re just a small European national telco that has to accept traffic from other networks.

When I was in the US I used to get utterly bombarded with spam calls. Some of it was “legitimate” Marketing but a high % was just those “hello I am ringing from windows about the many viruses on your computer” nonsense.

I have received a few threatening calls recently from someone claiming to be from revenue, as if revenue ring up out of the blue from India or somewhere demanding credit card details.

Sadly, unless there’s international action on this, it’s going to just keep getting worse and worse.

The only call blocking facilities most of them have are more for cases of being harassed by a stalker.

It is illegal to make nuisance calls, but it’s impossible to prosecute these people as they’re beyond the reach of Irish, EU, US or any other legal system that might be willing to do something about them.

I can assure you that no telephone company wants this problem hitting their customers. It’s bad for business and it’s risking destroying trust in the voice networks long term, much like email has become utterly useless due to volumes of spam, only this is even more in-your-face.

In the states, spam calls played a huge role in people cutting off landlines.

Even in our office, we get so many marketing calls on desk phones a lot of people don’t even log them in anymore.

EdgeCase

EdgeCase wrote: »

It’s frustrating but it’s also not something they can solve on their own.

Eir is significant in Ireland but they’re just a small European national telco that has to accept traffic from other networks.

When I was in the US I used to get utterly bombarded with spam calls. Some of it was “legitimate” Marketing but a high % was just those “hello I am ringing from windows about the many viruses on your computer” nonsense.

I have received a few threatening calls recently from someone claiming to be from revenue, as if revenue ring up out of the blue from India or somewhere demanding credit card details.

Sadly, unless there’s international action on this, it’s going to just keep getting worse and worse.

The only call blocking facilities most of them have are more for cases of being harassed by a stalker.

It is illegal to make nuisance calls, but it’s impossible to prosecute these people as they’re beyond the reach of Irish, EU, US or any other legal system that might be willing to do something about them.

I can assure you that no telephone company wants this problem hitting their customers. It’s bad for business and it’s risking destroying trust in the voice networks long term, much like email has become utterly useless due to volumes of spam, only this is even more in-your-face.

In the states, spam calls played a huge role in people cutting off landlines.

Even in our office, we get so many marketing calls on desk phones a lot of people don’t even log them in anymore.

I understand that it is a difficult issue to solve and the various reasons why it is a big job but if a third party company can offer a solution to an issue that Eir are either unwilling to or simply too stupid to fix then you have to ask questions of them.

McCrack

Deleted User wrote: »

eir: Thomas wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

The point remains that Eir have stated that there is nothing they can do but when a third part can find a solution then it points to the sheer incompetence of lack of care from Eir. You can dress it up any way you want and we know that it is not an easy problem to fix but so far Eir's only response to the issue is to do nothing.

I completely understand your frustrations at this time.

Thanks

Thomas

Great. but the only frustration I have is with Eir inept support staff such as yourself. So far you have been useless and offered no solution other than the obvious. Why is it that Eir are not able to do anything about this issue but a third party is?

I think you should back off the Eir representative here

Get your wife a phone that can block numbers 

McCrack

McCrack wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

eir: Thomas wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

The point remains that Eir have stated that there is nothing they can do but when a third part can find a solution then it points to the sheer incompetence of lack of care from Eir. You can dress it up any way you want and we know that it is not an easy problem to fix but so far Eir's only response to the issue is to do nothing.

I completely understand your frustrations at this time.

Thanks

Thomas

Great. but the only frustration I have is with Eir inept support staff such as yourself. So far you have been useless and offered no solution other than the obvious. Why is it that Eir are not able to do anything about this issue but a third party is?

I think you should back off the Eir representative here

Get your wife a phone that can block numbers 

genius idea, if only we had thought of that. Part of the issue is that she only recently moved to Eir and since porting her number over it has started. Before she moved to Eir she never got these calls.

Have been unkind to the staff, is calling them inept laying into them when their only advise is "no give man on phone info of yours".

ED E

Can't believe this thread is still going.

Get a prefix blocking app, move on with your life. Irish telcos don't block numbers, its not an Eir thing.

ED E

ED E wrote: »

Can't believe this thread is still going.

Get a prefix blocking app, move on with your life. Irish telcos don't block numbers, its not an Eir thing.

Did I say we have not done those things, it's still not acceptable that Eir's response to this issue is to do nothing. If a third party can solve the issue then Eir's response that there is nothing they can do is bull. 

EdgeCase

It’s relatively simple to write software to do that as a mobile app for iOS or Android.

You’ve a powerful and flexible OS and serious processing power in the phone, ability to query a crowd sourced (based on reports) live database of numbers over the internet. It’s easy for those companies to do that.

Implementing similar solutions in a classical digital telephone network is *not* straight forward.

It’s like the difference between developing an iOS app and software for a bank mainframe!

It’s not “bull”. The technologies you’re talking about are hugely different.

I wouldn’t normally be defending eir but, this isn’t something they can easily fix in current network technology.

EdgeCase

EdgeCase wrote:

It’s relatively simple to write software to do that as a mobile app for iOS or Android.

My point is that if third parties can do it then eir should have an app for users which blocks these calls. I'm not expecting them to block all calla on network but when you have to use a third party app to block calls its a pain. Before she ported her number to Sir she saw at most 1 of these calls evey two weeks, since porting it's a daily occurrence with 17 calls yesterday.

EdgeCase

The fact that she's getting calls since porting is definitely coincidental as none of the Irish networks are blocking calls.

EdgeCase

EdgeCase wrote:

The fact that she's getting calls since porting is definitely coincidental as none of the Irish networks are blocking calls.

I don't know, before porting the average number of calls a day was 0. Since porting it's 12. It's funny how days after porting to Eir the calls started.

Ceist_Beag

EdgeCase that's really great information there, thanks for providing it. It's a pity the telcos themselves cannot be as forthcoming with such information, instead of giving us glib comments such as don't answer these calls!
Do you think it would be possible for telcos to implement something as simple as blocking calls from numbers which are invalid? All nuisance calls we get are from numbers which look real but which are not actually valid numbers.

topnotch

Got an obvious spam call just there from 4810465 which is an eir number for a store in Ballincollig. I can only block outgoing numbers on my stupid handset. All i could do is set an obsure ringtone for this number if it rings again.

eir: Grainne

topnotch wrote: »

Got an obvious spam call just there from 4810465 which is an eir number for a store in Ballincollig. I can only block outgoing numbers on my stupid handset. All i could do is set an obsure ringtone for this number if it rings again.

Hi topnotch, 

We are aware of these scam calls at the moment. Our apologies for the inconvenience caused. 

You can find more information in regard to this here

Thanks, 
Grainne