Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Hello All, This is just a friendly reminder to read the Forum Charter where you wish to post before posting in it. :)

Meath team of 80s/90s would give Dubs a game now !

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote:
    I don't agree. Firstly they meath team came at the end of that great Kerry team.


    You could all the same things about current Dublin team. The current Dublin team came at the end of the great 00s kerry team.

    Stoner wrote:
    Also plenty of that team (1986) Mick Lyons, O'Rourke were playing in the 1970's and didn't get a look in versus the Kerry and Dublin team of that era

    Again you could say the same thing about the current Dublin team. Cluxton McMahon Sullivan McAuley Connolly Flynn A Brogan B Brogan were all playing in the 00s and didnt get a look in versus the kerry Tyrone teams of that era.

    Stoner wrote:
    I'm pretty sure Kerry popped in a few goals on Mick Lyons in 1986, at that stage he was playing intercounty football for around for 6 or 7 years.

    Again snap. Im pretty sure Meath popped in 5 goals on Stephen Cluxton in 2010 at that stage he was playing football for around 6 or 7 years.
    Stoner wrote:
    They were an old enough team many of them were around well before 86.

    Again snap it the very same for the current Dublin team many of them were around before 2011.

    When Meath hammered Dublin by 10 points in 2010, Dublins worst lose in leinster in generations Cluxton, McMahon, Carroll, Fitzimons, Brennan, Cullen , Flynn , A Brogan, B Brogan, O Gara, Macauley, McManamon were all playing when Meath popped in 5 goals.

    And when kerry defeated Dublin by a record 17 points ( Dublin worst defeat ever) in 2009 Cluxton, Cullin, Flynn, Connolly, B Brogan, A Brogan , O Sullivan, were all playing that day.

    Well if if you think Meath achievements should be downplayed well surely if you place the same above criteria to the current Dublin team u must downplay the current Dublin team. Fair is fair.

    Or is it one rule for Dublin great teams and another rule for great Meath teams. Meath achievements have always being downplay downgraded criticised. But for consistency surely the same criteria that you see lessens the greatness of Meath team late 80s then also lessens greatness of the current Dublin team. I dont agree on both accounts that any of this lessens Meath 80s or Dublin current team greatness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote: »
    Tbh.

    They came good when the great Kerry team was full of lads in their mid thirties


    I say snap again, this Dublin team have come at the end of another great kerry team , the kerry team of 00s . You said Meath came good when the great Kerry team was full of lads in their mid thirties. Its the very same for the currrent Dublin team

    Dublin came good when the great kerry team was in their mid 30s eg Paul Galvin Cooper T O Se Marc O Se A Mahoney Declan Sullivan Tom Sullivan Donaghy are all players Dublin played in this era and all were in their 30s and all retired recently. So what your saying about Meath were around when Kerry were full of lads in their 30s. The same applies to this Dublin team , that this Dublin team have been around when kerry players were in their 30s.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote: »
    Tbh.

    I don't agree. Firstly they meath team came at the end of that great Kerry team.

    When they did play Kerry they lost.

    They only ever AIs when someone else beat Kerry.

    A Dublin team that were not a patch on this team kept them out in 1989

    The Dubs also had a right go at them over 4 games in 91.

    In 92 Dublin started a run of 4 provincial Championships.

    That was a great Meath team, they had great battles with Cork. They were also stuck in-between two different AI winning Dublin teams that both packed it in after they won one AI.
    They came good when the great Kerry team was full of lads in their mid thirties

    Also plenty of that team (1986) Mick Lyons, O'Rourke were playing in the 1970's and didn't get a look in versus the Kerry and Dublin team of that era

    I'm pretty sure Kerry popped in a few goals on Mick Lyons in 1986, at that stage he was playing intercounty football for around for 6 or 7 years.

    It was a great team full of character but I couldn't see them beating this Dublin team

    They were an old enough team many of them were around well before 86.

    Lost against Dublin in 85 (last of Dubs run of 3)
    Lost against Kerry in 86
    Beat Cork in 87
    Beat Cork in 88 by a point
    Lost against Dublin in 89
    Lost against Cork in 90
    Lost againat Down in 91
    Lost against Dublin in 92 (start Dubs run of 4)

    If you look at it 4 different teams knocked them out during that period


    They won 3 provincial and 2 AIs back to back, a fine record

    For the "should have won against Down" I offer, fellover the line against Cork in 88

    I loved that team, hated losing to them, apart from Down in 91 I was up for them after they beat Dublin.

    But this Dublin team is no pushover.
    They would run that back side off them too, as would Mayo IMO.

    That 88 team vs the 00's Tyrone team would be great

    1 Dublin team of late 80s and early was a very good team which would won at least 2 All Irelands if its wasnt for Meath between 86 to 91. Dublin players at the time were John O leary Mick Kennedy, Gerry Hargan, Paul Curran, Eamon Heeey, Tommy Carr, Vinny Murphy, Brian Stynes, Charlie Redmond, Barney Rock, Ciaran Duff Joe McNally Jack Sheedy Paul Clarke, keith Barr. Thats a very strong Dublin team .


    2 You are underestimating how hard it is to beat Dublin any time. Wexford Carlow Wicklow havent beaten Dublin in 70 years, Longford in 50 years, Louth in 45 years, Offaly in 35 years, kildare have beaten Dublin twice in 45 years, Laois have beaten twice in 70 years, Westmeath have beaten Dublin 1 time in 70 years and two times in 130 years

    That Meath team played Dublin 9 times and lost once. That Meath beat a very strong Dublin team 6 times in 6 years ( 5 leinster championhip matchs, 1 national league divison 1 final.) Not only is it the greatest run victories ever over Dublin in leinster it is the best run of victories any county has ever had over Dublin. And rember Dublin were just as strong as Dublin now as they wre in the mid 80..The only difference is Dublin can beat kerry they couldnt beat kerry in 80s. Before Meath defeated Dublin in 86 Dublin had played in 9 of the previous All Ireland finals. It would be a like a team coming now and beating the Dubs 6 times in 6 years, It was some achievement by that Meath team. Beating Dublin for a county once in the championship is as a great achievement in any era for any leinster team to do it 6 times 6 years , it was unprecedented.


    3 The late 80s ealry 90s was a very competitive era with great Meath Down Cork Donegal Derry teams. You also had strong Dublin laois Clare Mayo Tyrone Monaghan and Armagh teams.

    In this era you have a brillant but flawed Mayo team, kerrys poorest All Ireland winners in 50 years ( only 97 was worse, you cannot compare this kerry team to greats of 70s 80s and 00s) brillant Donegal team and a very good Monaghan and thats it..

    This is an era were so many counties are having an alltime low period. Meath Cork Down Derry Armagh Galway kildare Offaly laois are all having their worst decade in geneations.
    It doesnt change that both Meath team 80s and current Dublin team are all time great teams, but Dublin are greater as 5 Sams are better then 2 Sams.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner


    That meath team were extra tough,hard as nails and well drilled under boylan.There's no way Dublin would be dominating leinster today if that meath team were around today.they had a never say die attitude, which is something for example mayo teams down through the years lacked .


    They were a great team, and I like that brand of football. I agree there'd be some give and take. Meath had real leaders back then. Lads like McCarty on the Dublin have it now. No doubt it would be a different competition if a meath team with as many characters was around now.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner


    Sonny678 wrote:
    You could all the same things about current Dublin team. The current Dublin team came at the end of the great 00s kerry team.

    No they didn't. They beat Kerry in 2011
    Gooch was 28. Kerry won again in 2014.

    The Kerry lads packed it in 4 years after losing to Dublin in 2011. Some of the Dubs had 3 AIs by that's stage

    You've this Meath team held up on a high Sonny, good but not that good.

    The dubs beat Kerry many times on the way to AIs.

    Boylan never did.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote: »
    Tbh.

    I don't agree. Firstly they meath team came at the end of that great Kerry team.

    When they did play Kerry they lost.

    They only ever AIs when someone else beat Kerry.

    A Dublin team that were not a patch on this team kept them out in 1989

    The Dubs also had a right go at them over 4 games in 91.

    In 92 Dublin started a run of 4 provincial Championships.

    That was a great Meath team, they had great battles with Cork. They were also stuck in-between two different AI winning Dublin teams that both packed it in after they won one AI.
    They came good when the great Kerry team was full of lads in their mid thirties

    Also plenty of that team (1986) Mick Lyons, O'Rourke were playing in the 1970's and didn't get a look in versus the Kerry and Dublin team of that era

    I'm pretty sure Kerry popped in a few goals on Mick Lyons in 1986, at that stage he was playing intercounty football for around for 6 or 7 years.

    It was a great team full of character but I couldn't see them beating this Dublin team

    They were an old enough team many of them were around well before 86.

    Lost against Dublin in 85 (last of Dubs run of 3)
    Lost against Kerry in 86
    Beat Cork in 87
    Beat Cork in 88 by a point
    Lost against Dublin in 89
    Lost against Cork in 90
    Lost againat Down in 91
    Lost against Dublin in 92 (start Dubs run of 4)

    If you look at it 4 different teams knocked them out during that period


    They won 3 provincial and 2 AIs back to back, a fine record

    For the "should have won against Down" I offer, fellover the line against Cork in 88

    I loved that team, hated losing to them, apart from Down in 91 I was up for them after they beat Dublin.

    But this Dublin team is no pushover.
    They would run that back side off them too, as would Mayo IMO.

    That 88 team vs the 00's Tyrone team would be great

    You said “Meath lost against Cork in 90” .That was the greatest Cork team ever, two in row winners. 2010 Cork was much poorer outfit That team in 2010 fell over the line. Ask Cork person and they would laugh in your face if you said 2010 team was better then 1989 1990 team

    You said Meath “Lost againat Down in 91”That was the best Down of the last 50 year, one of the geatest teams to come out Ulster in last 50 years. In my view the only one better was Tyrone team of the 00s

    While the Donegal team Meath defeated in 1990 would become All Ireland champions in 2 years
    The Mayo team defeated Meath in 88 was the best Mayo up to that in 30 years.
    Derry team Meath defeated in 87 would have many players who would win Sam in early 90s, and become Derrys greatest teams ever.

    The leisnter championship was more competitive in 80s then now. You had Offaly Meath and Dublin All Ireland winners and laois had a very strong team which won their only national league divsion 1 title.

    In the 1980s Meath two time All Ireland winners had Dublin 1 time All Ireland winners , Offaly 1 time All Ireland winners and laois national league division 1 winners as rivals

    In this decade Dublin 5 times All Ireland champions have no rivals in leinster full stop.
    This era Dublin are playing is the least competitive worst period ever in the history of 130 years of leinster football.


    The late 80s and early 90s you had 3 strong divsion 1 teams in leisnter. No team in leinster has played consistent division 1 football since mid 00s besides the Dubs. Dublin have not had to face strong division 1 opposition since mid 00s.
    Only Meath have won 1 leinster title in 2010 in this decade outside Dublin. And Meath have fallen apart since. Not 1 leinster teams outside Dublin has a reached an All Ireland final this decade. No leinster teams outisde Dublin have won an national league div 1 final in 20 years and no teams in leinster have reached national league div 1 final in 15 years besides Dublin.
    In the 80s Meath and laois won national league div 1 titles.


    You said “If you look at it 4 different teams knocked them out during that period”

    Yep because it was a very competive era as I said above you had you had great Meath Down Cork Donegal Derry teams. You also had strong Dublin laois Clare Mayo Tyrone Monaghan and Armagh teams. Tyrone teams of the 80s would have a All Ireland in any other era with player like Frank McGuigan Plunkett Donaghy John Lynch and Eugene McKenna. No one in Tyrone would place the current team above the 80s Tyrone team which nearly defeated the greatest team ever in a final. Monghan team of the 80s is also the best Monaghan team of last 60 or 70 years.

    You said For the "should have won against Down" I offer, fellover the line against Cork in 88


    But sure Dublin have fallen over the line in the last two finals. Mayo should have beaten Dublin in both finals , only Mayo are a mental basket case when it comes to finals. Amazingly Dublin havent played real well had a great performance in a final not since the 70s. In 2011 with 12 mins to go Kerry were the better team for the previous 55 min. In 2013 was an very poor game where Mayo and Dublin were not great at all. In 2015 Dublin best performance but again not a great game, where kerry could have snuck a draw at the end . In 2016 and 2017 Dublin just about won. If your talking about falling over the line.Thats this Dublins teams trademark in finals.


    Meath in 87 won by 6 points in a very good performance where after the first 15 mins Meath took complete control and won pulling up against a great Cork team. Dublin have won all their finals by a point or two and they have seemed nervous jittery tense even in finals. In comparsion Meath in finals played some great football with some great performances. They won in style in 87 v Cork. In 88 in the replay with 14 men Meath gave a textbook example way to win a game with 14 men. Meath defeated Corks greatest team ever with 14 men for nearly all the game ( McEntee was sent of after 10 mins). Would many teams in the current win an All Ireland final being down to 14 men after 10 mins. That is very impressive. A great victory agaisnt the odds. Again in 1991 Meath played in a great final and were 11 point down at one stage and closed the gap to two point by injury time and if there was a few more mins, Meath would have drawn the game. Meath played some really great football in 91 final.Mikey Sheedy said Bernard Flynns performance of 6 points from play in that final was the best performance he ever saw from a corner forward in an All Ireland final.

    Meath put in 3 strong performances in 3 final. One was a stylish win by 6 points, the other Meath showed great bravery in winning a final basically with 1 man down from the start. And Meath nearly made the greatest comeback of all time in All Ireland final history in 91.

    You said “They would run that back side off them too, as would Mayo IMO”.

    Agree Dublin are the better team, a greater team then Meath. But to say the Mayo team a very good team, but a flawed one would run the backside of Meath. Would this Mayo team be really able to beat the Meath of 87 88 in All Ireland final seen Mayo mental state in All Ireland, if the Meath of the late 80s or late 90s played the current Mayo team in All Ireland final we would win 10 times out of 10. Mayo are a mental basket case in finals. The pressure under them is extraordinary. And they have a mental block when it comes to finals.
    They are the greatest team never to win Sam. But until they do there is this massive question mark over them .


    You said “When they did play Kerry they lost”.

    Meath didnt beat kerry, but they r from two different era, just as Kerry were ending as a team , breaking up in 1986 when that Meath were just starting in 86 . Its like saying the Tyrone team of 03 to 08 couldnt beat Dublin team of 11 to 18. They couldnt because they couldnt play each other when both were at their peak. Kerry team was a team from late 70s early 80s 1975 to 1986. It broke up in 1986-87. The Meath team was from late 80s early 90s. 1986 to 1991. That Meath team peaked in 1988 when they won the two in a row and defeated a very strong Dublin team in a national league divsion 1 final by 8 points with 14 men. Meath at their peak wouldnt have beaten kerry 1975 to 1981. But Meath at their peak I believe could have beaten Kerry in 84 85 86. Monaghan drew with kerry in 85 and Tyrone should have beaten them in 86. Meath were better team then Monaghan or Tyrone. When we played kerry inn1986 Meath team was just beginning, Martin O Connell was being played full forward. The team realy took shape in 1987 and peaked from then til 1990.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭ Powerhouse


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    I was just thinking that myself last Sunday whilst watching the match. I don't think the great Jimmy Keaveney and his potbelly would get into this Dublin panel!


    Why do you assume if he was playing these days that he would have a potbelly? Would he not be dumbbell-curling with the best of them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote: »
    Tbh.

    I don't agree. Firstly they meath team came at the end of that great Kerry team.

    When they did play Kerry they lost.

    They only ever AIs when someone else beat Kerry.

    A Dublin team that were not a patch on this team kept them out in 1989

    The Dubs also had a right go at them over 4 games in 91.

    In 92 Dublin started a run of 4 provincial Championships.

    That was a great Meath team, they had great battles with Cork. They were also stuck in-between two different AI winning Dublin teams that both packed it in after they won one AI.
    They came good when the great Kerry team was full of lads in their mid thirties

    Also plenty of that team (1986) Mick Lyons, O'Rourke were playing in the 1970's and didn't get a look in versus the Kerry and Dublin team of that era

    I'm pretty sure Kerry popped in a few goals on Mick Lyons in 1986, at that stage he was playing intercounty football for around for 6 or 7 years.

    It was a great team full of character but I couldn't see them beating this Dublin team

    They were an old enough team many of them were around well before 86.

    Lost against Dublin in 85 (last of Dubs run of 3)
    Lost against Kerry in 86
    Beat Cork in 87
    Beat Cork in 88 by a point
    Lost against Dublin in 89
    Lost against Cork in 90
    Lost againat Down in 91
    Lost against Dublin in 92 (start Dubs run of 4)

    If you look at it 4 different teams knocked them out during that period


    They won 3 provincial and 2 AIs back to back, a fine record

    For the "should have won against Down" I offer, fellover the line against Cork in 88

    I loved that team, hated losing to them, apart from Down in 91 I was up for them after they beat Dublin.

    But this Dublin team is no pushover.
    They would run that back side off them too, as would Mayo IMO.

    That 88 team vs the 00's Tyrone team would be great


    About Meath winning Kerry being poor. Well then if you think that when kerry are not strong that means an easier All Irelands for whoever.. That would mean Down and Galways teams of the 60s , Offaly team of 70s and 80s, Meath teams of 80s and 90s, Cavan team of the 40s, Down Derry Donegal Galway teams of the 90 all won handy All Ireland . I dont agree and many wouldnt.

    If you do agree with that then you must agree Dublin have won handy All Ireland since 2011 as this has being the end of a great kerry team and kerry have had one of their worst periods in their history. This decade and the 90s are the worst periods in kerry football in 100 years. So you must then agree that Dublin have won handy All Irelands. I dont agree as this Dublin team are one of the greatest teams ever.



    I dont believe Dublin have won handy All Ireland in this era the same way I dont think Meath won handy All Irelands in 80s. But if you think Meath were lucky to be around when Kerry were poor and kerry great team was breaking up and kerry was full of lads in the 30 surely then you must also have a question mark over Dublins All Ireland seens as Kerry are poor currently and kerry great team was breaking up and kerry was full of lads in the 30 . Surely then you must also think Dublin have won handy All Irelands.


    There always been with the GAA to putdown downgrade critizie Meaths achievement. We are an average midlands county in Irish society which happens to be a hugely sucessful football county that can put it up to iconc powerfull world famous Irish counties like Dublin Cork Galway kerry. When a teams wins All Ireland outside Dublin Kerry Galway Cork they are given a bad name Meath eg dirty, Tyrone eg Puke football, Donegal eg blanket defences destroying football , Its the same in hurling. Look at if Cork Tipp or Cats dont win hurling. Clare in 90s and Galway in 80s were heavily criticised at the time.


    People dont accept when a county like Meath and Tyrone win in football or Clare in hurling. So there achievements are lessened. The fact is any team thats win Sam is a brillant team. Any team that puts two back to back is the stamp of greatness. Even though Meath were unpopular at the time, 30 years later people now see Meath 87 88 as one the greatest teams ever and rightly so. The same way people see the current Dublin team is better then Meath 87 88 but also that the current Dublin team is one of the greatest ever. Rightly so. Kerry being poor doesnt impact on how great you are. Winning titles , winnng great games, with great players is and always will be the yardstick of greatness.I still believe you judge teams on how many titles you won and how many great players u have.




    And if that Meath was around Im sure they would give Dublin a serious game and they would be a tougher test any other team in this era. That Meath team had 4 footballers of the year in their team. Thats the quality of that Meath team.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭ theoneeyedman


    The meath team of 86 to 1992 would give the present dublin football team a real proper match.meath won 5 leinsters ,2 all irelands ,2 national leagues in that time competing with a really good dublin team and cork too.meath should have beaten down in 91.think of the players they had,mcquillan,lyons,o malley,ferguson,harnan,o connell,mc'entee,hayes,cassells,o rourke,stafford,flynn, absolute legends.the present day dublin team v that meath team.what a game that would be !!


    It may be close for a while, but I'd expect Dublin would win easily. Sure, most of the Meath lads are in their late 50's/early 60's now 🙄


  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ RoscommonTom


    not a hope in hell would they, the game is very differnt now, way faster


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭ rpurfield


    Can't believe this thread has got to three pages.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner


    Sonny678 wrote:
    1 Dublin team of late 80s and early was a very good team which would won at least 2 All Irelands if its wasnt for Meath between 86 to 91. Dublin players at the time were John O leary Mick Kennedy, Gerry Hargan, Paul Curran, Eamon Heeey, Tommy Carr, Vinny Murphy, Brian Stynes, Charlie Redmond, Barney Rock, Ciaran Duff Joe McNally Jack Sheedy Paul Clarke, keith Barr. Thats a very strong Dublin team .

    Fair point. They'd no midfielder though Sonny. Took years to replace Mullins.

    We got lucky in 94 when Stynes came along from Oz. Whelan missed both teams


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭ Powerhouse


    Sonny678 wrote: »
    Fitness has improved. Meath players of that era were known as an incredibly fit team look how they played 10 games in 91 season which was a record up to that. That Meath team could easily train like the current Dublin team if they had the same sport science. In other sports modern fitness isnt seen as the the sign of greatness. The best soccer team ever is the Brazil team of 1970. The best English soccer team ever is the team of 66. The best Real Madrid team ever is the the Real Madrid 5 European cups in a row in the 60s.
    Ask any Liverpool supporter they will tel u that liverpool team of 70s and 80s is better then the current liverpool.
    Ask any Celtic supporter and they will u the Cetlic team of 67 is better then the current Invincible team. Soccer fans dont discriminate greatness or only see greatness through the eyes of fitness.

    That fitness was poorer in 60s 70s or 80s, so current teams are better. They dont believe that in soccer rugby criket Amercian football, every field sport in the world. I dont know why GAA fans would think different. If teams in the 60s 70s and 80s had the same sport science as today they would do the same training as todays players. It wouldnt stop them reaching the same level of fitness . Anyone can get fit. Its not a sign of greatness and football ability , to be very fit very fit. Anyone can do that. Character, leadership skills, football skills are something you have or not. Sean Purcell Sean O Neill Kevin Higgins would easily adapt if they were around today. Their football ability would shine and they would have no problem getting fit in a modern way. Anyone can become fit. Thats easy. Football ability well not everyone can become a football great.

    This post should really be an automatic inclusion in any thread of this nature. The only thing I would add is why, when such comparisons are made, is the fitness and style of play of the current team always automatically regarded as the terms of battle. Why would no one ask how Dublin would go in a 15 on 15 old-style game without flooded defences, fitness levels assumed to be equal, short kickouts not the norm etc. etc.

    Suffice to say that the Dublin supporters would not be "shouting for the opposition for the laugh" that day (to recall a comment made here last week re. the Leinster championship).


  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭ horseofstone


    Sonny678 wrote: »
    I say snap again, this Dublin team have come at the end of another great kerry team , the kerry team of 00s . You said Meath came good when the great Kerry team was full of lads in their mid thirties. Its the very same for the currrent Dublin team

    Dublin came good when the great kerry team was in their mid 30s eg Paul Galvin Cooper T O Se Marc O Se A Mahoney Declan Sullivan Tom Sullivan Donaghy are all players Dublin played in this era and all were in their 30s and all retired recently. So what your saying about Meath were around when Kerry were full of lads in their 30s. The same applies to this Dublin team , that this Dublin team have been around when kerry players were in their 30s.

    I agree with pretty much everything you've said Sonny.I'm from westmeath and would be the first to admit that the meath 86-92 team were special.they had character in abundance and don't get the credit they deserve sometimes(a bit like the leeds utd team in the 70s).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭ Powerhouse


    not a hope in hell would they, the game is very differnt now, way faster


    Why are you assuming that the game is played under "now" conditions?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote: »
    Tbh.

    I don't agree. Firstly they meath team came at the end of that great Kerry team.

    When they did play Kerry they lost.

    They only ever AIs when someone else beat Kerry.

    A Dublin team that were not a patch on this team kept them out in 1989

    The Dubs also had a right go at them over 4 games in 91.

    In 92 Dublin started a run of 4 provincial Championships.

    That was a great Meath team, they had great battles with Cork. They were also stuck in-between two different AI winning Dublin teams that both packed it in after they won one AI.
    They came good when the great Kerry team was full of lads in their mid thirties

    Also plenty of that team (1986) Mick Lyons, O'Rourke were playing in the 1970's and didn't get a look in versus the Kerry and Dublin team of that era

    I'm pretty sure Kerry popped in a few goals on Mick Lyons in 1986, at that stage he was playing intercounty football for around for 6 or 7 years.

    It was a great team full of character but I couldn't see them beating this Dublin team

    They were an old enough team many of them were around well before 86.

    Lost against Dublin in 85 (last of Dubs run of 3)
    Lost against Kerry in 86
    Beat Cork in 87
    Beat Cork in 88 by a point
    Lost against Dublin in 89
    Lost against Cork in 90
    Lost againat Down in 91
    Lost against Dublin in 92 (start Dubs run of 4)

    If you look at it 4 different teams knocked them out during that period


    They won 3 provincial and 2 AIs back to back, a fine record

    For the "should have won against Down" I offer, fellover the line against Cork in 88

    I loved that team, hated losing to them, apart from Down in 91 I was up for them after they beat Dublin.

    But this Dublin team is no pushover.
    They would run that back side off them too, as would Mayo IMO.

    That 88 team vs the 00's Tyrone team would be great

    The comment you say above is flawed your saying if Kerry being poor and having players in their mid 30s in 80s let look at this in proper good detail.. So lets examine teams who won All Irelands when kerry are poor. Kerrys poorest decades are 1960s 1990s and this decade. .

    Kerry All Irelands wins for every decade below I have highlighted the worst decade they are 1960s, 1990s and this decade are kerry worst


    1920s: 3 for Kerry ( 1924, 1926, 1929)
    1930s: 5 for Kerry (1930-31-32-37-39)
    1940s: 3 for Kerry (1940-41-46)
    1950s: 3 for Kerry (1953-55-59)
    1960s: 1 for Kerry (1969)
    1970s: 4 for Kerry (1970-75-78-79)
    1980s: 5 for Kerry (1980-81-84-85-86)
    1990s: 1 for Kerry ( 1997)
    2000s: 5 for Kerry (2000-04-06-07-09)
    2010s: 1 for Kerry ( 2014)

    Kerry won 1 All Ireland in the 1960s. During the sixties Down team won 3 All Irelands, Galway won 3 in a row. If we take your logic these would be handy All Irelands . I dont believe this. Many people consider the Down and Galway team of the 60s as two of the greatest teams ever. I would agree with that . If you take the logic that kerry were poor in the 60s. They were poor. Then Down and Galway 60s won handy All irelands.

    Kerry won 1 All Ireland in the 90s. During that era , Meath won 2 All Irelands ( a very highly rated team ) and so did Down win 2 All Irelands ( a very highly rated team). You also had Derry and Donegal best team, a highly rate Dublin team with 1 win , and the best team from Conancht in 50 years in Galway in 98 and greatest Cork team ever. I would agree with all the above.
    But again if you take ur logic that kerry were poor, means handy All Ireland for Meath Cork and Down

    Kerry have 1 All Ireland this decade. Again its not considered a great period for kerry. We have one of the greatenst teams ever 5 All Ireland winnig Dublin team , I agree with this they are. But if we take your logic that when kerry are poor , handy All Irelands r won. Then you must agree Dublins five All Ilreands are handy, I dont agree.
    So Kerry are poor in the 90s and now in this decade so if you think that you must then think there was a touch if handiness to those titles 83,87,88,95,96,99 and also 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017. I dont agree.

    Ask any Kerry person and they will tell this is a poor period/ poor decade for Kerry. Look at the defeat v Mayo last so similar to Mayo defeat of kerry in 90s. You wouldnt get anyone to say this is a great era for kerry in the kingdom, it along with the 60s and 90s and this decade their worst period in 100 years. For any other county yes this is a good era, but for kerry a county that wins 3 in a row, 2 in rows, 4 in rows this decade is poor for the kingdom.


    2000s kerry team with 4 All Ireland and 2 in a row is better then this 2014 team
    the 3 in a row 80s kerry team is better then the 2014 team
    the 4 in a row 70s -80s kerry team is better then the 2014 team
    The two in a row All Ireland kerry winning team early 70s team is better then 2014 1 All ireland team.
    Simply put 2014 team where not better then Kerry teams of 00s ( Cooper T O Se), 90s ( Fitzgerald Moyihan) 80s and 70s (P O Se J O Shea O Keefe , Spillane, Sheedy, Egan)
    To show how poor this decade is for kerry its the first time kerry have never had an all time great player debut in a decade

    In the 70s Sheedy P O se J O Se Spillane all made there debut
    In the 80s Maurice Fitzgerald another all time great kerry player made his debut
    In the 90s Seamus Moyihan Dara O se Tomas O Se more all time greats ade their debut
    In the 00s Gouch Cooper Marc O Se D Sullivan Donaghy Galvin all made their debut all time greats

    In this decade Kerry have not debuted one all time great player , a player who would considered the best in their position a kerry legend. Even in the 50s and 40s kerry players in that era or considered all time great debuted eg Mick O Connell.
    O'Sullivan, Kieran Donanghy, Paul Galvin, Tom O'Sullivan , Cooper, Aidan O'Mahoney have played in this decade. But All those players are 00s players they debuted in the 00s. Not 1 player that has debuted for Kerry since 2010 who would be considered an all time great player, one of the best in his position ever. And don't say Paul Geaney, even Paul Geaney or Donoghue wouldnt admit they r not up there with Cooper Fitzgerald Sheedy Long as kerry greats..T O se debuted in late 90s, Cooper in 2002, Donaghy in the mid 00s as well as D Sullivan and P Galvin.

    This a poor decade for kerry only 1 All Ireland , the 2014 team along with the 1997 team are the two poorest All Ireland kerry winners for 50 years..


    Overall in summary the Meath team of 86 to 01 was one of the greatest teams. The Dublin was a greater team but 87 88 would definatly give them a game. Dublin are in the top 3 or 4 greatest teams ever while Meath 87 88 are probaly between number 5 and 10 in the list of greatest teams ever. It would be some match. Imagine O Malley marking Mannion. Or O Connell v Connolly or P Flynn. And Fenton v Hayes and McEntee or B Flynn marked by Sullivan or Stafford marked by Cooper or O Rourke marked by McMahon, or Dowd marked by Mcarthy or Beggy v Mccaffrey it would be some game , it would 82000 watching an All Ireland final and it would bigger then 1991. That would be some match.


  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭ horseofstone


    It may be close for a while, but I'd expect Dublin would win easily. Sure, most of the Meath lads are in their late 50's/early 60's now 🙄

    Your a comedian


  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭ horseofstone


    not a hope in hell would they, the game is very differnt now, way faster

    You'll be telling me next that the current rossies bunch would beat that meath team of 86-92.lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote: »
    No they didn't. They beat Kerry in 2011
    Gooch was 28. Kerry won again in 2014.

    The Kerry lads packed it in 4 years after losing to Dublin in 2011. Some of the Dubs had 3 AIs by that's stage

    You've this Meath team held up on a high Sonny, good but not that good.

    The dubs beat Kerry many times on the way to AIs.

    Boylan never did.

    Wrong

    Under Sean Boylan Meath defeated kerry in an All Ireland semi final in 2001 by 15 points. Meath kept kerry to 0-5. It is the worst defeat for kerry football in the championship in 130 years. That was the great kerry team of 00s and on the field that day was great kerry players like Maurice Fitzgerald, Dara O Se , Tomas O Se, Seamus Moyihan, Dara Cinneade, Mike Frank Russell, Tom Sullivan , Eamon Fitzmaurice. Meath beat the great kerry team of the 00s by 15 points. Dublin have beaten kerry in this era over and over again. But again by kerry standards this is not a great kerry team.

    Meath also defeated the great team of 00s (something Dublin couldnt do in the 00s) in a national league div 1 semi final in 2000 in a great game where kerry were 9 points ahead with 15 mins to go and Meath made a great comeback to win by point with an injury time goal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭ Al_Coholic


    rpurfield wrote:
    Can't believe this thread has got to three pages.

    In fairness Sonny is posting


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote: »
    Fair point. They'd no midfielder though Sonny. Took years to replace Mullins.

    We got lucky in 94 when Stynes came along from Oz. Whelan missed both teams

    But look at that team there was an All Ireland or two in that team, John O leary Mick Kennedy, Gerry Hargan, Paul Curran, Eamon Heeey, Tommy Carr, Vinny Murphy, Brian Stynes, Charlie Redmond, Barney Rock, Ciaran Duff Joe McNally Jack Sheedy Paul Clarke, keith Barr. Thats a serious gaelic football team. Meath stopped Dublin Sam between 86 and 91 and the 4 games with Meath in 1991 left pyschological scars on Dublin. After that 91 Dublin had problems closing out games in 92 93 94 95 v Donegal Derry Down and Tyrone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    I agree with pretty much everything you've said Sonny.I'm from westmeath and would be the first to admit that the meath 86-92 team were special.they had character in abundance and don't get the credit they deserve sometimes(a bit like the leeds utd team in the 70s).


    Thanks Horseofstone, I appreciate that your a gentleman, The current Iarmhi team have a good young team with potential, just need to make the right appointment after kelly. Heslin is the best forward in leinster outside the Dubs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭ MattressRick


    Get some sleep lads!


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,555 ✭✭✭✭ The_Kew_Tour


    Meath lads are bit obsessed with this 86-91 team.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭ Gael85


    Sonny678 wrote: »
    Wrong

    Under Sean Boylan Meath defeated kerry in an All Ireland semi final in 2001 by 15 points. Meath kept kerry to 0-5. It is the worst defeat for kerry football in the championship in 130 years. That was the great kerry team of 00s and on the field that day was great kerry players like Maurice Fitzgerald, Dara O Se , Tomas O Se, Seamus Moyihan, Dara Cinneade, Mike Frank Russell, Tom Sullivan , Eamon Fitzmaurice. Meath beat the great kerry team of the 00s by 15 points. Dublin have beaten kerry in this era over and over again. But again by kerry standards this is not a great kerry team.

    Meath also defeated the great team of 00s (something Dublin couldnt do in the 00s) in a national league div 1 semi final in 2000 in a great game where kerry were 9 points ahead with 15 mins to go and Meath made a great comeback to win by point with an injury time goal.

    Tomas O'Se was suspended for Meath game in 2001 after was sent off against Dublin.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner


    Sonny678 wrote:
    Wrong

    I'm not wrong Sonny.
    In 2001 Galway won the AI.

    First of all this is about the 86 to 92 team not one ten years later

    Second Meath did not win the AI in 2001 Galway did so he didn't win beat Kerry on the way to the AI as he didn't win it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭ Powerhouse


    Stoner wrote: »
    I'm not wrong Sonny.
    In 2001 Galway won the AI.

    First of all this is about the 86 to 92 team not one ten years later

    Second Meath did not win the AI in 2001 Galway did so he didn't win beat Kerry on the way to the AI as he didn't win it.

    In fairness disregarding Meath’s win over Kerry in 2001 on the technicality that they didn’t win the All Ireland afterwards is like saying the never beat Offaly in a replay on a wet Saturday when the match started at 4pm. It’s just deliberately setting stylised parameters to suit an argument.

    Two things, Meath gave Kerry a beating in 2001 the likes of which has not been seen in the All Ireland series in living memory. So credit where it’s due. Also the idea that because Meath did not beat Kerry in ‘86-92 is also a deliberately set parameter which seeks to ignore that Meath beat the Cork team that had beaten Kerry. They wouldn’t have been far behind that great Kerry team which lost the 1992 Munster final to Clare either.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner


    Powerhouse wrote:
    In fairness disregarding Meath’s win over Kerry in 2001 on the technicality that they didn’t win the All Ireland afterwards is like saying the never beat Offaly in a replay on a wet Saturday when the match started at 4pm. It’s just deliberately setting stylised parameters to suit an argument.

    It's not like that at all.
    I said they never beat Kerry on the way to an AI. I set the parameters in the statement, not afterwards

    The other parameter is in the title of the post. The meath team of the 80's and 90's. 2001 is a decade or two later , again not added afterwards.

    Sure you might as well go 20 years back in time to the meath team of the 60's and add those lads into the mix.

    Sonny has come up with facts based outside of both the parameters of the thread and my statement

    In all of Boylans AI wins. Either Cork got out of Munster or someone else (Mayo in 96) beat Kerry for them.

    IMO the single most impressive thing a Leinster football team did in the 80's was offaly beating a fantastic Kerry team to prevent 5 in a row.
    Dublin slipped passed Kerry in 83 too and again thay had an average Cork team to beat. That Kerry team added a other 3 in a row after that.

    In 86 Meath (in their prime) came up against the end of that team, Spillane's was in this thirties. Kerry beat them.

    I've been equally dismissive of Dublin's win in 83 as I have of some of Meath's achievements

    They fact is that a good few of that team, O'Rourke, Lyons, McEntee were around for good Dublin , Offally and Kerry teams. It took them until 86 to win a provincial title. They started in the 1970's. Although lads like Flynn and Stafford started in the 80's

    In 3 of Boylans 4 AI wins they beat Cork in the final. They other being 1996 when they beat Mayo (Mayo beat Kerry)

    So again, 2001 Galway won the AI not Meath. It was also a different team to the one in the threads title by a decent margin.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner


    Sonny678 wrote:
    But look at that team there was an All Ireland or two in that team, John O leary Mick Kennedy, Gerry Hargan, Paul Curran, Eamon Heeey, Tommy Carr, Vinny Murphy, Brian Stynes, Charlie Redmond, Barney Rock, Ciaran Duff Joe McNally Jack Sheedy Paul Clarke, keith Barr. Thats a serious gaelic football team. Meath stopped Dublin Sam between 86 and 91 and the 4 games with Meath in 1991 left pyschological scars on Dublin. After that 91 Dublin had problems closing out games in 92 93 94 95 v Donegal Derry Down and Tyrone.


    Sonny, I loved that Dublin team.

    But they are miles off this team imo. The messing with Redmond in 95 not taking frees etc would never happen now.

    Of the forwards IMO only Dessie Farrel would get in.

    Both Fenton and MDMA would win the midfield battle.

    Cluxton is better. Gerry Hargan would make it IMO.
    Cooper is better than Kennedy, faster better going forward.
    D Rock and his Dad, who knows

    Taking this Dublin team 2013 onwards as thats Gavin's team with his U21's in it so kind of less some of the 2011 that fell away quickly
    Dias, Quinn, Cullen, Henry, Brennan (ish), Fennal, Barry Cahill, Kevin Nolan

    They are a far better managed team. I think Gavin carries the scars of that team from his playing days.

    They manage momentum and finish with very strong teams. This was the undoing of Kerry in 2011 and even more so in 2013

    I think to his credit Boylan was a fantastic manager, he knew the importance of the "championship quarter"
    However I think Gavin's team would be in a very strong position when that Meath team stuck, that purple patch late in the second half.

    It would be a great game, impossible to ever have though, we'd never know who from that Meath team would survive the training required for football now versus then.


    Things I loved about that Meath team was their never say die attitude alright, and Geraghty, he was class.

    They certainly wouldn't sit down, I just wonder would they have the mobility for this team.

    IMO a far inferior Dublin team put it up them and in the period 86-96 I think Dublin have 5 Leinster championships .


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote:
    In 3 of Boylans 4 AI wins they beat Cork in the final. They other being 1996 when they beat Mayo (Mayo beat Kerry)


    Again the current Dublin team have won 3 of their 5 All Ireland finals v Mayo also. Another similarty between Meath 80s and 90s teams and current team.
    The other similarities are in next message .


Advertisement