selling your own house

thebourke

has anybody any experience selling their own house rather tahn going through estate agents?

Samuel T. Cogley

Various threads on this. First thing a potential buyer is going to ask is what's wrong with the place he couldn't sell it normally.

Tigger

If I was selling a house I wouldn’t want a guy or girl on their first house sale selling it for me.

kippy

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Various threads on this. First thing a potential buyer is going to ask is what's wrong with the place he couldn't sell it normally.

To be fair, people do sell their own houses - one of the main reasons is of course to save on fees - nothing to do with the state of the house.
As mentioned there are plenty threads on it, and pros and cons of the approach depending on numerous variables.

Samuel T. Cogley

kippy wrote: »

To be fair, people do sell their own houses - one of the main reasons is of course to save on fees - nothing to do with the state of the house.

People do but there's usually parties that have some pre-existing interest.

Selling something unusual isn't so bad but trying to flog a Semi-D in Dublin with five identical houses within 5 minutes of the place, you have to ask yourself why the person is selling it sans agent. My mind goes to somewhere else before it goes to is trying to save a few quid. Even if it did go to trying to save a few quid, what else has he saved a few quid on?

kippy

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

People do but there's usually parties that have some pre-existing interest.

Selling something unusual isn't so bad but trying to flog a Semi-D in Dublin with five identical houses within 5 minutes of the place, you have to ask yourself why the person is selling it sans agent. My mind goes to somewhere else before it goes to is trying to save a few quid. Even if it did go to trying to save a few quid, what else has he saved a few quid on?

"Saving a few quid" at just 1% plus vat on a Semi D in Dublin can equate to something between 5 and 10K depending on sale price.
To be fair, with the market the way it is, I doubt buyers in Dublin would be asking too many questions.
Ultimately the solicitors do the majority of the work on sales/purchases anyway from what I've seen.
It's more likely you'd need an auctioneer if your house was hard to sell.

thebourke

got house valued at 325k....estate agent quoted 1% +23 vat....works out at roughly 4,000euro!

Samuel T. Cogley

thebourke wrote: »

got house valued at 325k....estate agent quoted 1% +23 vat....works out at roughly 4,000euro!

If you're only able to get 315K for it though you've lost 6K not gained 4K. Not to mention the cost of advertising etc.

Edit Just checked there it's going to be €600 (combined) minimum to list it on Daft and Myhome.ie

Graham

kippy wrote: »

"Saving a few quid" at just 1% plus vat on a Semi D in Dublin can equate to something between 5 and 10K depending on sale price.

You're assuming your average, emotionally invested homeowner is going to be able to negotiate the same selling price that an experienced agent could achieve.

Little point saving 5k on fees if an agent could have negotiated a multiple of that on the selling price.

L1011

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

If you're only able to get 315K for it though you've lost 6K not gained 4K. Not to mention the cost of advertising etc.

Edit Just checked there it's going to be €600 (combined) minimum to list it on Daft and Myhome.ie

Generally charged by the EA seperate to their fee anyway.

kippy

Graham wrote: »

You're assuming your average, emotionally invested homeowner is going to be able to negotiate the same selling price that an experienced agent could achieve.

Little point saving 5k on fees if an agent could have negotiated a multiple of that on the selling price.

I am not assuming anything.
As I said, there are many variables involved.
It's pretty difficult to prove, either way, that an auctioneer would or would not get you a better price that you could yourself.

raxy

Graham wrote: »

You're assuming your average, emotionally invested homeowner is going to be able to negotiate the same selling price that an experienced agent could achieve.

Little point saving 5k on fees if an agent could have negotiated a multiple of that on the selling price.

Not all estate agents are that good at negotiating or even bothered to try. When buying I went to see a house, told the estate agent I was very interested & would be making an offer. The next day was a bank holiday so the following day I called to ask to view it again with my wife & said I would make an offer then.
No answer from the estate agent but I went on daft & the house was sale agreed. They could have got atleast 5k more for the seller but didn't even give me a chance to make an offer. He should the house for 50k less than another similar house went for 5 minutes away from it.

Graham

kippy wrote: »

It's pretty difficult to prove, either way, that an auctioneer would or would not get you a better price that you could yourself.

Let's just look at this logically for a minute.

A local EA is likely to be privy to a significant amount of data that your average vendor is oblivious to. A dozen houses in the vicinity that have recently gone sale agreed for €x, €y and €z. How much the underbidders on those houses had offered.

Now add into that mix years of negotiating experience. Knowing when is the right time to accept an offer. Knowing how to bounce multiple bidders off each other. Knowing when to move quickly, knowing when to slow things down.

For most people, selling their house will represent the largest financial transaction in their life to date. It's probably not the ideal time to convince yourself you're going to be able to take on another profession for a few weeks.

I would no more try to sell my own house than I would do my own dental work, replace the gearbox in my car or perform my own surgery. I'll leave all of those things to people that have years of experience.

kippy

Graham wrote: »

Let's just look at this logically for a minute.

A local EA is likely to be privy to a significant amount of data that your average vendor is oblivious to. A dozen houses in the vicinity that have recently gone sale agreed for €x, €y and €z. How much the underbidders on those houses had offered.

Now add into that mix years of negotiating experience. Knowing when is the right time to accept an offer. Knowing how to bounce multiple bidders off each other. Knowing when to move quickly, knowing when to slow things down.

For most people, selling their house will represent the largest financial transaction in their life to date. It's probably not the ideal time to convince yourself you're going to be able to take on another profession for a few weeks.

I would no more try to sell my own house than I would do my own dental work, replace the gearbox in my car or perform my own surgery. I'll leave all of those things to people that have years of experience.

You are not looking at it logically if you are comparing doing your own dental work, replacing a gearbox or performing your own surgery to showing people around a house and dealing with offers.

Again, I have nothing against auctioneers, I can see why in most circumstances people would want to engage their services, I can also see however why people would see the costs involved as something that might be avoidable, depending on the variables.

Graham

kippy wrote: »

You are not looking at it logically if you are comparing doing your own dental work, replacing a gearbox or performing your own surgery to showing people around a house and dealing with offers.

I hadn't realised that's all there was to achieving maximum value for a property. I can give punters the guided tour and take offers no problem if that's all there is to it.

Maybe you're right. Maybe being an EA is just one of those professions that any amateur with practically zero experience can bumble into and get right first time

L1011

The PPR has robbed EAs of the local knowledge (and ability to generally make up selling prices) they once had really.

I was buying my house when it came in and basically every "that house sold for X" line the local EAs spun me was bollox. By tens of thousands in some cases.

doolox

Or they are sales involving more than one owner. When I was single I sold a house using an estate agent who was a pal of my fathers. No arguments, no guilt and no explaining prices got to any other interested party.

When I was put in charge of selling my deceased mothers house to be divided equally between me and my three sisters I made damn sure to hire the best available solicitors, auctioneers and sales people to get the best price possible and avoid any disappointments.

The most disappointed person in the scenario was one of my sisters who never worked a hard day in her life and was by no means an expert with money having nearly lost her house due to delayed payments on her mortgage.

Fortunately the other two sisters were able to be convinced by their respective husbands that everything was above board and the best price possible was obtained for the house. Without the auctioneers signs and offers and other activity done on our behalf it would not have been possible to convince them that a high price was obtained and I was not done out of money on the deal.

I am aware that some housing developments in Dublin operate a closed shop where houses are passed onto neighbours children at a market rate determined by putting the house on the open market to gauge interest and price and that the neighbours child is given first call on buying the house. The hapless auctioneer gets nothing because a sale was not made to one of his clients. The vendor and buyer simply engage the solicitors and take the deal from that point without engaging an estate agent.Deposits and contracts are handled solely by the solicitors. This is why estate agents should always charge for valuations and placing a house on the market and cover at least some of their costs.

Graham

L1011 wrote: »

The PPR has robbed EAs of the local knowledge (and ability to generally make up selling prices) they once had really.

PPR isn't that useful unless you you want to be basing your decisions on values achieved 6 months ago.

Lumen

First ask yourself whether you'd make a good estate agent.

I wouldn't. I'm far too honest.

Estate agents routinely lie by omission.

Homer

IF you don’t fancy paying over the odds with a conventional estate agent you could always get one of the new hybrid estate agents such as Moovingo, Moove etc who charge a flat fee for exactly the same service. People start their search for a home online now so who the agent is matters very little for most properties.

4ensic15

Homer wrote: »

IF you don’t fancy paying over the odds with a conventional estate agent you could always get one of the new hybrid estate agents such as Moovingo, Moove etc who charge a flat fee for exactly the same service. People start their search for a home online now so who the agent is matters very little for most properties.

That only applies to the initial marketing. Those hybrids have nothing to offer as far as initial valuation, sales strategy, vetting of bidders and negotiation are concerned. I have seen an agent refuse to deal with a buyer because their solicitor was a known troublemaker. How would the average house owner know that?

Homer

4ensic15 wrote: »

Those hybrids have nothing to offer as far as initial valuation, sales strategy, vetting of bidders and negotiation are concerned.

I would respectfully disagree with you there, and I am neither an EA or a Hybrid. The claim to offer all the same benefits of a high street EA but at a reduced cost. Can you explain why they cant do valuations or sales strategy (basically putting the property on MyHome/Daft which a 5 year old could do)?
The only vetting required from my EA was proof of funds and letter from the bank which were very easily produced and shown to the EA. Could a hybrid not do that also? Negotiations also be a problem for a hybrid?

Catlady76

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Various threads on this. First thing a potential buyer is going to ask is what's wrong with the place he couldn't sell it normally.

You just say nothing I was smart knew I could do it myself and save myself 1800 for an EA.

Catlady76

thebourke wrote: »

has anybody any experience selling their own house rather than going through estate agents?

My friend sold her apt the one right next door to me whereas I used an EA and was sorry afterwards because I paid out 1800 she just paid the cost of advertising it on DAFT. Once you do up good leaflets, take good pictures and know all there is about the property then you can sell it yourself if you get sale agreed it the solicitors that will take it from there to be honest. My friend went sale agreed after 3 weeks, my EA took 2 months but they were different properties. If you are confident and have the time for viewings etc go for it.

sexmag

With the way the market is now it's would be quite easy to sell a house without the use of an agent, hell people are advertising on Facebook the homes they have for sale.

As long as you don't lie and have a price you are happy to sell at then go for it, no one says give to negotiate down in price, the majority increase their offer if they like the place and there's a bidding war, which is nearly every house in Dublin at the moment

doolox

DIY sales is the way to go if you are on your own as a vendor and have no difficult and awkward co -owners who will always insist on getting an "official" sales agent to do the selling. All estate agents do is put a vendor in contact with a buyer....the solicitors of both parties and their banks handle all the tricky technical stuff. Also increasingly important in these days of pyrites, substandard construction and out and out cowboy building is to get a surveyor on your own account to do a survey. The banks typically lend 80% of cost. often less and will ask their surveyor to cover that cost in their estimate of house price and work required. Without an independent surveyor of your own the buyer risks the expense of 20% of the house price if things go wrong.

jsd1004

Graham wrote: »

Let's just look at this logically for a minute.

A local EA is likely to be privy to a significant amount of data that your average vendor is oblivious to. A dozen houses in the vicinity that have recently gone sale agreed for €x, €y and €z. How much the underbidders on those houses had offered.

Now add into that mix years of negotiating experience. Knowing when is the right time to accept an offer. Knowing how to bounce multiple bidders off each other. Knowing when to move quickly, knowing when to slow things down.

For most people, selling their house will represent the largest financial transaction in their life to date. It's probably not the ideal time to convince yourself you're going to be able to take on another profession for a few weeks.

I would no more try to sell my own house than I would do my own dental work, replace the gearbox in my car or perform my own surgery. I'll leave all of those things to people that have years of experience.

That's bull really. Anyone considering selling their own house knows exactly the local market and has way more in depth knowledge than any auctioneer would have.
I viewed a house lately with Sherry Fitz, the young lad selling it knew next to nothing and had to go to a list of pointers he had written down. Did not know if it was mains water or a well for instance. He was meant to come back to me..still waiting.
He was also meant to come back when an opening bid was received, still waiting even though the office confirmed there was an offer.
Im not exactly sure what an EA offers to a sale. The viewing was an open viewing and he did not have time to speak with people as there was a lot of people there.
He could not answer basic questions either way.
Did not ask for any form of proof of funds or mortgage approval.
The ad pictures were professionally took but photoshopped which was misleading.
Id never use an estate agent to sell a house and find them frustrating when trying to buy.

sexmag

jsd1004 wrote: »

That's bull really. Anyone considering selling their own house knows exactly the local market and has way more in depth knowledge than any auctioneer would have.
I viewed a house lately with Sherry Fitz, the young lad selling it knew next to nothing and had to go to a list of pointers he had written down. Did not know if it was mains water or a well for instance. He was meant to come back to me..still waiting.
He was also meant to come back when an opening bid was received, still waiting even though the office confirmed there was an offer.
Im not exactly sure what an EA offers to a sale. The viewing was an open viewing and he did not have time to speak with people as there was a lot of people there.
He could not answer basic questions either way.
Did not ask for any form of proof of funds or mortgage approval.
The ad pictures were professionally took but photoshopped which was misleading.
Id never use an estate agent to sell a house and find them frustrating when trying to buy.

That could just be a newbie etc but it does highlight the positive fact that being you're own estate agent essentially means you only have to worry about yourself instead of worrying if the EA has other clients or is even up to scratch

Samuel T. Cogley

TBH having a sales background there is no amount of money to large to cut me out of having to deal with time wasters.

4ensic15

Homer wrote: »

I (basically putting the property on MyHome/Daft which a 5 year old could do)?
?

If you think that is all there is to it, go ahead. Numerous attempts have been tried over the past 30 years The Solicitors Property Service, "For sale by owner" and so on.

Tar.Aldarion

sexmag wrote: »

That could just be a newbie etc but it does highlight the positive fact that being you're own estate agent essentially means you only have to worry about yourself instead of worrying if the EA has other clients or is even up to scratch

Am renting and have yet to meet a competent estate agent, maybe it is different with selling houses? The posts above saying they could get you more than their fees worth extra...they don't really have much incentive to push, 1% of the extra is all they will be increasing their fee. As to whether somebody should use one depends on how they think they can handle selling their own house, what skills/attributes they have for doing so, how much time they have to devote to it and so on. It would not be a good idea for he average person most likely.

davo10

I wish more properties were sold directly by the owners, it would be a lot cheaper for buyers and experienced investors would make a fortune.

jsd1004

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Am renting and have yet to meet a competent estate agent, maybe it is different with selling houses? The posts above saying they could get you more than their fees worth extra...they don't really have much incentive to push, 1% of the extra is all they will be increasing their fee. As to whether somebody should use one depends on how they think they can handle selling their own house, what skills/attributes they have for doing so, how much time they have to devote to it and so on. It would not be a good idea for he average person most likely.

EA's want a sale. The end sale price is really irrelevant to them. I bought a house through an estate agent and she never knew that planning had been granted previously for an extra house on the site. It was a receiver sale. A small bit of research from the EA and she would have got an extra 50k by just advertising that fact. Sometimes you can make money off a clueless auctioneer. A good idea is not to ask them too many questions as that will only educate them about what they are selling. Do your own research.

JohnCleary

Sold myself without using EA.

The only reason I can see why anyone would use an EA is if they either don't have the time to offer viewings, or are out of the country.

Granted I have an excellent solicitor, but it couldn't have been easier.

If selling again in future, I won't be using an EA.

L1011

Graham wrote: »

PPR isn't that useful unless you you want to be basing your decisions on values achieved 6 months ago.

But you can't trust any claims about sale prices made by an EA. So they're not is useful ever

arctictree

I hear loads of stories of buyers unable to contact EAs to get a bid in. Happened to me. For that reason alone, I would not use an EA.

Ush1

I'd echo the "getting the best price" fallacy. The EA wants a sale and the quicker the better. They are not too bothered in getting a small amount of extra commission, they just want a sure thing.

ted1

JohnCleary wrote: »

Sold myself without using EA.

The only reason I can see why anyone would use an EA is if they either don't have the time to offer viewings, or are out of the country.

Granted I have an excellent solicitor, but it couldn't have been easier.

If selling again in future, I won't be using an EA.

Or EAs have no soul and can extract more money from buyers than you can

You may have sold yourself. But did you get the best price ?

Claw Hammer

Ush1 wrote: »

I'd echo the "getting the best price" fallacy. The EA wants a sale and the quicker the better. They are not too bothered in getting a small amount of extra commission, they just want a sure thing.

Nonsense. The EA wants to get the next sale. If the neighbours think that he undersold they won't deal with him.

arctictree

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Nonsense. The EA wants to get the next sale. If the neighbours think that he undersold they won't deal with him.

Not nonsense. You hear time and time again of buyers not being able to contact EAs to get their bid in. Or of buyers being told that they would be contacted and then the house going sale agreed without a phone call to them.

1641

arctictree wrote: »

Not nonsense. You hear time and time again of buyers not being able to contact EAs to get their bid in. Or of buyers being told that they would be contacted and then the house going sale agreed without a phone call to them.

So on the one hand "you hear" of agents not bothering to take bids from interested parties while also "you hear" of agents making up bids to artificially generate a bidding war.

TeaBagMania

I would much rather deal directly with the home owner when purchasing

In the US you sign a contract with the EA and they have 30, 60, 90 days etc to sell, if house doesn't sell than both parties go their separate way and no fees paid to EA as the house didn't sell
EA only gets paid if house sells

Just curious if EA's, work similarly in Ireland

JohnCleary

ted1 wrote: »

Or EAs have no soul and can extract more money from buyers than you can

You may have sold yourself. But did you get the best price ?

I got more than my asking price. The asking price was what I was happy to sell it for. The final price was higher. I made it clear that I was happy to sell at my asking price but people started bidding against each other.

I told people to have their final bid in by X date. The person who made the highest bid now owns the property. I took people on their word and didn't ask for documents etc. And it worked out fine.

Both parties very happy and a quick sale as no EA middleman.

I will say though that I had many viewings which took approx 1 hr per view, some phantom bids etc. But all in all id do it again in a heartbeat and loved almost every minute of the process

Tigerandahalf

I think this is a good idea. Estate agents don't offer a lot of input now that we have smartphones and the price register.

Some of the photos I have seen put up by EAs are terrible, wrong details on the house or the gps location is completely off.

If you are buying off the seller direct you are also likely to get a good run down on how everything is setup in the house and can get anything clarified straight away.

I think it is when you want to buy a certain type of house, site or area to live in that the EA has something to offer perhaps.

ted1

JohnCleary wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Or EAs have no soul and can extract more money from buyers than you can

You may have sold yourself. But did you get the best price ?

I got more than my asking price. The asking price was what I was happy to sell it for. The final price was higher. I made it clear that I was happy to sell at my asking price but people started bidding against each other.

I told people to have their final bid in by X date. The person who made the highest bid now owns the property. I took people on their word and didn't ask for documents etc. And it worked out fine.

Both parties very happy and a quick sale as no EA middleman.

I will say though that I had many viewings which took approx 1 hr per view, some phantom bids etc. But all in all id do it again in a heartbeat and loved almost every minute of the process

More than your asking price means nothing. You could of been asking for to little.
Once people bid the highest price an EA would have extracted more.

kippy

ted1 wrote: »

More than your asking price means nothing. You could of been asking for to little.
Once people bid the highest price an EA would have extracted more.

You cannot state this as fact.

4ensic15

kippy wrote: »

You cannot state this as fact.

He just did!

ted1

kippy wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

More than your asking price means nothing. You could of been asking for to little.
Once people bid the highest price an EA would have extracted more.

You cannot state this as fact.

Offers exceeded the asking price , so you set it to low especially if you were willing to accept it. That’s a fact.

You accepted the final bid an, EA would have got this up. That’s a fact

mcbert

ted1 wrote: »

Offers exceeded the asking price , so you set it to low especially if you were willing to accept it. That’s a fact.

You accepted the final bid an, EA would have got this up. That’s a fact

Huh? A fact? Nonsense. Certainly possible, of course. Likely? That depends. I imagine many people trying to buy in Dublin for example have personal examples of EAs being disinterested, ignoring bids, hard or impossible to get in touch with etc. I personally have more than one example. I dont believe fake bids are too common but sellers missing out on the best possible price because their EA doesnt think it is worth their time for the tiny return, that makes sense. Hey, i even remember being unable to leave a voicemail bevause the advertised number mailbox was full all the time. Something else odd was going on there. Yeah vendors can reject the best offer, thats not what im talking about, i mean difficulty getting through to the EAs to bid or get information. That is not so rare.

davo10

mcbert wrote: »

Huh? A fact? Nonsense. Certainly possible, of course. Likely? That depends. I imagine many people trying to buy in Dublin for example have personal examples of EAs being disinterested, ignoring bids, hard or impossible to get in touch with etc. I personally have more than one example. I dont believe fake bids are too common but sellers missing out on the best possible price because their EA doesnt think it is worth their time for the tiny return, that makes sense. Hey, i even remember being unable to leave a voicemail bevause the advertised number mailbox was full all the time. Something else odd was going on there. Yeah vendors can reject the best offer, thats not what im talking about, i mean difficulty getting through to the EAs to bid or get information. That is not so rare.

As someone who has bought and sold over 30 properties in the last 20 years, I can assure you I would prefer to buy from an owner direct, and I always use an EA to sell. An experienced EA and and inexperienced seller, that's no contest for any savvy buyer.

JohnCleary

ted1 wrote: »

More than your asking price means nothing. You could of been asking for to little.
Once people bid the highest price an EA would have extracted more.

Actually, it exceeded other si.ilar properties in the area and I was a little gobsmacked by the price I achieved. I put this down to a heating market.

All that matters is that I was extremely happy with the result. But don't let the truth get in the way of your little fairy story.

You sound (Not saying you are) like a begrudged EA who won't accept the fact that your profession is as useful as a chocolate teapot