Issue with child's buggy

chooey · 10-06-2018 7:40pm #1

Hi, we bought a buggy 20 months ago from a well known store over here and spent just over 700 euro on it. It's been great up until today when the brake cord snapped in two and now we can't wheel it. I have my receipt from when I purchased it so I went into the store where we purchased it today and they told me that they don't stock that brand anymore so nothing that they can help me with. When I went onto the suppliers website it appears that this particular range has been discontinued but if I want to fix the issue I have to purchase a new buggy frame as you can't just repair the brake cord. As they've discontinued it I can't find a replacement frame on their site.
Am I just out 700 euro or is there anything that I can do to try and resolve things with the store. I got a year warranty with it so they're advising me that it's nothing to do with them and they can't fix it at all.
Thanks so much. It's used only at weekends for walks in the park etc so I can't see how it snapped after so little use.

dudara · 10-06-2018 8:19pm

Your contract is with the retailer. It doesn’t matter at all if they have discontinued it. Under consumer law, they need to refund, replace or repair, assuming of course there is no excessive wear & tear on your part. If they refuse, you can lodge a small claims court case.

happywithlife · 10-06-2018 8:27pm

Did the 700 include accessories like car seat etc or was it just the buggy? Was it in constant use - normal wear & tear/slightly more/less?
I think if it was a well used travel system I'd be delighted with a significant discount off a new one in terms of "partial refund" but willing to suck it up as out of warranty and it's almost 2 yrs old and depending on the amount of use, worn

_Brian · 10-06-2018 8:42pm

Is it out of warranty?

AfterLife · 10-06-2018 8:52pm

dudara wrote: »

Your contract is with the retailer. It doesn’t matter at all if they have discontinued it. Under consumer law, they need to refund, replace or repair, assuming of course there is no excessive wear & tear on your part. If they refuse, you can lodge a small claims court case.

Its out of warranty.

drunkmonkey · 10-06-2018 8:52pm

Try a bicycle repair shop

chooey · 10-06-2018 9:04pm

Thanks so much for all of your replies.
It is out of warranty.

We were thinking of going to a bike shop but a lot of the cord seems to be within the frame itself and there doesn't appear to be anywhere to open up the frame to remove it.

It's normal wear/tear use- shopping centre, going to the park at the weekends. I work full time so it's only used at weekends and she's only 20 months and light so can't blame her either:). It was 659 for just the buggy. We also bought all the bits for it so spent around 900 in total. Thought it would have lasted me longer than this.

iamwhoiam · 10-06-2018 9:05pm

chooey wrote: »

Thanks so much for all of your replies.
It is out of warranty.

We were thinking of going to a bike shop but a lot of the cord seems to be within the frame itself and there doesn't appear to be anywhere to open up the frame to remove it.

It's normal wear/tear use- shopping centre, going to the park at the weekends. I work full time so it's only used at weekends and she's only 20 months and light so can't blame her either:). It was 659 for just the buggy. We also bought all the bits for it so spent around 900 in total. Thought it would have lasted me longer than this.

Could you look for a second hand one the same then use that frame with your own buggy etc ?

Yawns · 10-06-2018 9:10pm

meh it should be fit for purpose and last for a reasonable time. I don't believe 20 months of light usage would be a reasonable time frame. It only costs 25 quid for small claims court and you get that back if you win. Try the store again and see what happens. The sale of goods and supply act would be worth a good read and remember just because an item comes with a 12 month warranty, doesn't mean that you're out of options outside of the warranty. The store will of course try to say tough, out of warranty and some people will fall for it.

Document everything and see if you and the shop can come to an amicable solution. Repair, replace or refund but you can't be unreasonable and demand a refund for eg. Allow time the chance to repair, the repair must be permanent. It can't be replaced like for like anymore but another option could be on the table. If they flat out refuse to help, document it all and submit a claim to the small claims court.

guil · 10-06-2018 9:10pm

AfterLife wrote: »

Its out of warranty.

Warranty is only from the manufacturer, look up sales of goods and supply act 1980.

chooey · 10-06-2018 9:11pm

Depending on what they say tomorrow I think that's what I'll have to do. They're selling for cheap enough on adverts. My main worry is if I do that that there'll be damage to this cord also but think I'll have to take that risk.

guil · 10-06-2018 9:12pm

I'd send a registered letter to head office if you don't have any joy in the store tomorrow, I certainly wouldn't be buying a second hand one just yet.

chooey · 10-06-2018 9:17pm

ok good advice, thanks

chooey · 10-06-2018 9:18pm

guil wrote: »

Warranty is only from the manufacturer, look up sales of goods and supply act 1980.

Sorry if it's a stupid question in relation to this, I've looked at this-in my case is it saying that a buggy should have a life expectancy of longer than 20 months

GarIT · 10-06-2018 9:19pm

chooey wrote: »

Depending on what they say tomorrow I think that's what I'll have to do. They're selling for cheap enough on adverts. My main worry is if I do that that there'll be damage to this cord also but think I'll have to take that risk.

You have a legal right to have it repaired, replaced with the same or better model or refunded by the shop you bought it from. If you start trying to fix it yourself you will loose that right.

Warranties are just a scam to make you think you can't use your legal rights once the warranty is up. Your consumer rights are stronger than any warranty. Fill out the small claims court form, pay the €25 SCC fee and you've a 99% chance of the issue being resolved.

mobfromcork · 10-06-2018 9:19pm

What's the make/model of the buggy?

T-Maxx · 10-06-2018 9:20pm

chooey wrote:

We were thinking of going to a bike shop but a lot of the cord seems to be within the frame itself and there doesn't appear to be anywhere to open up the frame to remove it.

A lot of bikes nowadays have internal cabling. A bike shop may well be able to sort you out.

The buggy is 20 months old and 8 months out of warranty. Not sure what people here expect the shop or the manufacturer to do really?

GarIT · 10-06-2018 9:21pm

chooey wrote: »

Sorry if it's a stupid question in relation to this, I've looked at this-in my case is it saying that a buggy should have a life expectancy of longer than 20 months

The law says it must last a reasonable amount of time but does not define what reasonable is. EU law says you have to be allowed take a case to the small claims court for two years after the sale and Irish law says you must be able to take a case to the SCC for 5 years after the sale but no law give clarity on whether you will win the case or not.

dudara · 10-06-2018 9:21pm

AfterLife wrote: »

Its out of warranty.

Doesn’t matter. A warranty cannot supercede or lessen your consumer rights. In other words, the shop still has to deal with the matter. They can’t brush it off by saying “out of warranty”.

chooey · 10-06-2018 9:22pm

GarIT wrote: »

You have a legal right to have it repaired, replaced with the same or better model or refunded by the shop you bought it from. If you start trying to fix it yourself you will loose that right.

Warranties are just a scam to make you think you can't use your legal rights once the warranty is up. Your consumer rights are stronger than any warranty. Fill out the small claims court form, pay the €25 SCC fee and you've a 99% chance of the issue being resolved.

ok thanks for that! All they kept telling me today was that I was out of warranty

GarIT · 10-06-2018 9:23pm

T-Maxx wrote: »

The buggy is 20 months old and 8 months out of warranty. Not sure what people here expect the shop or the manufacturer to do really?

Warranties are irrelevant and don't apply in Ireland, consumer law overrides anything in them unless they offer extra benefits for the customer on top of consumer law.

I'd expect the shop to repair it, replace it, or give a full refund.

chooey · 10-06-2018 9:24pm

GarIT wrote: »

Warranties are irrelevant and don't apply in Ireland, consumer law overrides anything in them unless they offer extra benefits for the customer on top of consumer law.

I'd expect the shop to repair it, replace it, or give a full refund.

ok great, thanks for that information. Can I ask would I expect them to charge me for the repairs or should it be done without charge? Thanks again. I'll let you know what they say tomorrow

Sleeper12 · 10-06-2018 9:26pm

Write a letter to manifacture detailing what happened and see if they will do anything for you. They may surprise you. If they stick with the 12 months warranty then I'd go back to the shop you bought it from as your contract is with them.

Yawns · 10-06-2018 9:26pm

chooey wrote: »

ok thanks for that! All they kept telling me today was that I was out of warranty

Well send them a registered letter of complaint outlining all the issues and how you would like to give them a reasonable time to allow for a repair. 2 - 3 weeks should suffice. If they wish, they could source a buggy of equal or greater value as a replacement or a full refund. Keep a copy of the letter and any responses.

Don't talk over the phone, keep it to letter or email. This way you have all communication in writing and bring it to the SCC.

If it comes down to it and the SCC rules in your favour, you most likely won't get a full refund btw as you had 20 months of usage,

Yawns · 10-06-2018 9:27pm

chooey wrote: »

ok great, thanks for that information. Can I ask would I expect them to charge me for the repairs or should it be done without charge? Thanks again. I'll let you know what they say tomorrow

There should be no charge. The item would be deemed not fit for purpose under Irish law.

Yawns · 10-06-2018 9:28pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Write a letter to manifacture detailing what happened and see if they will do anything for you. They may surprise you. If they stick with the 12 months warranty then I'd go back to the shop you bought it from as your contract is with them.

If the shop is being a dick and repeatedly saying out of warranty, I wouldn't even entertain them by trying to deal with the manufacturer. Contract is with the shop

ED E · 10-06-2018 9:28pm

TBH it's a consumable, the shop can argue same at the SCC. It's a cheap fix.

AfterLife · 10-06-2018 9:29pm

dudara wrote: »

Doesn’t matter. A warranty cannot supercede or lessen your consumer rights. In other words, the shop still has to deal with the matter. They can’t brush it off by saying “out of warranty”.

They can and they have by the look of things. It's up to the op now if they want to bring the seller to the small claims court. Bear in mind that this isn't a TV or any other stationary electrical item where if it breaks it is usually a fault. There's a very high chance the op will lose the case if there are any dents or big marks on the buggy.

dudara · 10-06-2018 9:29pm

ED E wrote: »

TBH it's a consumable, the shop can argue same at the SCC. It's a cheap fix.

Then they should arrange the fix.

Yawns · 10-06-2018 9:30pm

ED E wrote: »

TBH it's a consumable, the shop can argue same at the SCC. It's a cheap fix.

As Dudara said, if the shop argues it's a cheap fix, they'll be asked why didn't they fix it then.

ED E · 10-06-2018 9:31pm

dudara wrote: »

Then they should arrange the fix.

No, as in its not up to them. Same way if a tire on your car wore out after a year that's not a manufacturing defect it's use. Consumable components that are expected to wear and be replaced are not the responsibility of the retailer.

Yawns · 10-06-2018 9:32pm

AfterLife wrote: »

They can and they have by the look of things. It's up to the op now if they want to bring the seller to the small claims court. Bear in mind that this isn't a TV or any other stationary electrical item where if it breaks it is usually a fault. There's a very high chance the op will lose the case if there are any dents or big marks on the buggy.

Nah they wouldn't lose as long as they can show to have been reasonable throughout. Any big dents or marks may lessen the value, as I said in an earlier post, they most likely would not receive a full refund in any case as they had 20 months of usage out of it.

GarIT · 10-06-2018 9:32pm

chooey wrote: »

ok great, thanks for that information. Can I ask would I expect them to charge me for the repairs or should it be done without charge? Thanks again. I'll let you know what they say tomorrow

They can't charge you anything.

They may not cooperate, if they don't you will have to take it to court but it has been made a very simple procedure to protect consumers. You fill out a forum with 10-20 lines, post it, show up to and spend less than 30 mins in court and a judge will decide that either it has lasted a reasonable amount of time or they need to refund you (typically in full as it is under 2 years old). In most cases the court sees a reasonable amount of time as 3-5 years for electronics, almost always 5 years for white goods, but I've no idea about buggies.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumers_and_the_law_in_ireland.html

It is up to the retailer to prove that the issue is your fault or that the product has lasted it's expected lifetime otherwise you win the case.

At least 50% of the time the shop don't send anyone to court as it's not worth the effort defending the case and you win a full refund automatically almost without having to say anything.

Yawns · 10-06-2018 9:34pm

ED E wrote: »

No, as in its not up to them. Same way if a tire on your car wore out after a year that's not a manufacturing defect it's use. Consumable components that are expected to wear and be replaced are not the responsibility of the retailer.

You're not comparing like for like. If the tyres on the buggy were worn and this was the issue, then fine.

For comparing with a car, if you bought a brand new car and within 20 months the brake lines developed leaks and faulty cylinders, then it would be covered under warranty and be repaired.

chooey · 10-06-2018 9:35pm

AfterLife wrote: »

They can and they have by the look of things. It's up to the op now if they want to bring the seller to the small claims court. Bear in mind that this isn't a TV or any other stationary electrical item where if it breaks it is usually a fault. There's a very high chance the op will lose the case if there are any dents or big marks on the buggy.

There are no dents or big marks on it- the only thing that's on it is a coffee stain after I spilled some in the park last weekend.

dudara · 10-06-2018 9:35pm

ED E wrote: »

No, as in its not up to them. Same way if a tire on your car wore out after a year that's not a manufacturing defect it's use. Consumable components that are expected to wear and be replaced are not the responsibility of the retailer.

But is this a consumable part? The shop haven’t said that it’s consumable and told her to get a spare (which I’d expect them to do if it was consumable). They’ve completely refused to engage.

Yawns · 10-06-2018 9:39pm

chooey wrote: »

There are no dents or big marks on it- the only thing that's on it is a coffee stain after I spilled some in the park last weekend.

Have it clean and spotless before any pictures are taken. No excuses to give them.

AfterLife · 10-06-2018 9:40pm

dudara wrote: »

But is this a consumable part? The shop haven’t said that it’s consumable and told her to get a spare (which I’d expect them to do if it was consumable). They’ve completely refused to engage.

Its probably a load of auld wans working part time if it's the big buggy retailer in Ireland. No one in that company is going to know how to fix it and if a replacement frame isn't available the only other options are back to the manufacturer of get it fixed elsewhere.

twowheelsonly · 10-06-2018 9:41pm

chooey wrote: »

Thanks so much for all of your replies.
It is out of warranty.

We were thinking of going to a bike shop but a lot of the cord seems to be within the frame itself and there doesn't appear to be anywhere to open up the frame to remove it.

.

Bike shop is definitely your best bet IMO. As others have stated, it's a consumable and I have no doubt that it will be easy enough to fix, if a little fidgety. Any decent bike shop should be able to cut the cable to size which will save having to try to find the exact one for a discontinued model.

chooey · 10-06-2018 9:43pm

Yawns wrote: »

Have it clean and spotless before any pictures are taken. No excuses to give them.

Definitely. Will clean it off tomorrow. I'd forgotten until I took it out yesterday and then was going to clean it off after our walk but sure then it broke.

I just would have expected the buggy to last longer than 20 months. I was hoping that it might last if we have baby number 2 in the future.

chooey · 10-06-2018 9:46pm

I just found this on the Phil and teds site so doesn't look like I can go to a bike shop if it's not resolved

What part should I buy to replace the brake cable on a dash model?

As the brake cable runs through the frame on the dash regrettably there is no replacement part for the cable - you would need a replacement frame.
If your buggy is under warranty or if you are unsure please contact your retailer or phil&teds.

Flippyfloppy · 10-06-2018 9:52pm

I've had several buggys Over the years, some brand new, some second hand, and never once had this issue. Buggys are meant to last for years.

I wouldn't really consider it a consumable, I doubt Phil & Teds do either as they clearly don't expect it to snap!

twowheelsonly · 10-06-2018 9:54pm

chooey wrote: »

I just found this on the Phil and teds site so doesn't look like I can go to a bike shop if it's not resolved

What part should I buy to replace the brake cable on a dash model?

As the brake cable runs through the frame on the dash regrettably there is no replacement part for the cable - you would need a replacement frame.
If your buggy is under warranty or if you are unsure please contact your retailer or phil&teds.

Where is the cable broken ? Is it within the frame or at one of the ends ?
If it's at one of the ends I'd be 100% confident that it could be replaced. Internal would be trickier but I wouldn't imagine that it's insurmountable.

chooey · 10-06-2018 9:56pm

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Where is the cable broken ? Is it within the frame or at one of the ends ?
If it's at one of the ends I'd be 100% confident that it could be replaced. Internal would be trickier but I wouldn't imagine that it's insurmountable.

It's broken where it splits between the two wheels so external.

twowheelsonly · 10-06-2018 9:59pm

chooey wrote: »

It's broken where it splits between the two wheels so external.

Not familiar with it but if you can see the break in the cable then I'd imagine that it can be repaired quite easily.
Do you have any photos of it or a link to anything that shows it ?

CeilingFly · 10-06-2018 10:00pm

Just be careful going in and quoting sale of goods act and following advice from some people here.

Firstly you have to be able to show its a defect and not caused by wear/tear or misuse.

I've no clue about buggies, but if a cable went in a bike after 20 months, I'd be of the opinion that its a wear and tear item and just get it replaced.

On the other hand, if its something that cannot be replaced without major expense, then I would think that's a fault of manufacture.

As others have said, a decent bicycle repair place will probably be an option.

chooey · 10-06-2018 10:08pm

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Not familiar with it but if you can see the break in the cable then I'd imagine that it can be repaired quite easily.
Do you have any photos of it or a link to anything that shows it ?

My husband does on his phone-I'll take some tomorrow and can post them here.

jimmycrackcorm · 10-06-2018 10:12pm

ED E wrote:

No, as in its not up to them. Same way if a tire on your car wore out after a year that's not a manufacturing defect it's use. Consumable components that are expected to wear and be replaced are not the responsibility of the retailer.

CeilingFly wrote:

Firstly you have to be able to show its a defect and not caused by wear/tear or misuse.

It's a defect and not a consumable if the manufacturer is saying it cannot be replaced or repaired. A buggy should last year's at that price.

If the trailer won't do anything then let them know it's going to the SCC.

chooey · 10-06-2018 10:15pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's a defect and not a consumable if the manufacturer is saying it cannot be replaced or repaired. A buggy should last year's at that price.

If the trailer won't do anything then let them know it's going to the SCC.

I thought the same. We were expecting to have it years.

GarIT · 10-06-2018 10:20pm

CeilingFly wrote: »

Firstly you have to be able to show its a defect and not caused by wear/tear or misuse.

On the other hand, if its something that cannot be replaced without major expense, then I would think that's a fault of manufacture.

In any other court that would be the case but in the SCC it is the retailers responsibility it was not a manufacturing defect and it lasted as long as it should. The SCC doesn't expect a consumer to hire an expert to prove anything in their favour. The SCC is designed to be cheap and easy for the consumer.

Given that the manufacturer has stated it cannot be repaired and is part of the frame the court would likely see it as a structural issue with the product. No company would win a case in the SCC where they have to prove that the item was designed to last less than 20 months but is designed in a way that it is not replaceable.

guil · 10-06-2018 10:58pm

CeilingFly wrote: »

Just be careful going in and quoting sale of goods act and following advice from some people here.

Firstly you have to be able to show its a defect and not caused by wear/tear or misuse.

I've no clue about buggies, but if a cable went in a bike after 20 months, I'd be of the opinion that its a wear and tear item and just get it replaced.

On the other hand, if its something that cannot be replaced without major expense, then I would think that's a fault of manufacture.

As others have said, a decent bicycle repair place will probably be an option.

The brake cables on a bicycle would be used a lot more and for longer periods than on a buggy, it's nowhere near like like for like.

Issue with child's buggy

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