Return of Deposit after leaving rental property

Catlady76

What is an acceptable amount of time to wait for contact from a landlord in relation to the return of a deposit on a rental property you have just left please? We left a rental property on the 02.06.18 and LL took keys back on the 06.06.18 we req'd a return of the deposit which we know we will have an issue with as she is not a very agreeable person. We left the house spotless and took videos and pictures to prove such but I am just wondering how long should I wait before contacting her to get the deposit back because she is the type of LL who hopes you will not make any contact and she can just keep the 1k. Tks

dennyk

Two weeks is generally considered a reasonable timeframe for a landlord to return the deposit and/or provide documentation supporting any deductions they've made. I'd follow up with the landlord via phone after a week or so as a "gentle reminder", and if nothing has happened after two weeks, send them a written demand via post. If they still don't respond or if they actively refuse to return your deposit without providing a legitimate reason, file a complaint with the RTB.

ELM327

Until there is a regulated 3rd party charged with holding deposits, this is continuing to happen.
I've been a LL and a tenant and generally the rule has been the deposit is the last months rent (once the LL has had periodic inspections of the property and knows it hasnt been damaged etc)

Catlady76

dennyk wrote: »

Two weeks is generally considered a reasonable timeframe for a landlord to return the deposit and/or provide documentation supporting any deductions they've made. I'd follow up with the landlord via phone after a week or so as a "gentle reminder", and if nothing has happened after two weeks, send them a written demand via post. If they still don't respond or if they actively refuse to return your deposit without providing a legitimate reason, file a complaint with the RTB.

Thanks I will do that.

Catlady76

ELM327 wrote: »

Until there is a regulated 3rd party charged with holding deposits, this is continuing to happen.
I've been a LL and a tenant and generally the rule has been the deposit is the last months rent (once the LL has had periodic inspections of the property and knows it hasnt been damaged etc)

I've been a LL myself and used the standard rules for when my tenant was leaving to return her deposit, we paid rent in advance all the time so when we moved in we paid 2k to LL on the 29.07.12 so that was deposit and one months rent in advance and we have done this each month so on the 1st of each month she received the rent so the last full months rent she rec'd from us for May was on the 1st of May and I have said that if she so wants she cant take 2 days rent for the 2 days we were there into June. She is not a great LL and never maintained the property, no services, no alarms, no painting and we were there for 6 years. Alot more problems with the house that she just told us to fix ourselves if we had an issue with it so I just want to be clear on how long I have to wait if you get me as I imagine we will end up at the RTB.

Askthe EA

2 weeks is generally considered the maximum time unless there are extenuating circumstances. Last place we left before we bought had it back in 24 hrs.

Catlady76

Askthe EA wrote: »

2 weeks is generally considered the maximum time unless there are extenuating circumstances. Last place we left before we bought had it back in 24 hrs.

Thats brilliant doubt we will get it back quick at all but I just want to have all my information correct for her because we will be in for a fight to get it back sadly she is not an ideal LL.

Graces7

Catlady76 wrote: »

Thats brilliant doubt we will get it back quick at all but I just want to have all my information correct for her because we will be in for a fight to get it back sadly she is not an ideal LL.

Good luck. I once waited for a landlady outside her place of work and walked to the ATM with her...Got most of it back then but the rest took months

Catlady76

Graces7 wrote: »

Good luck. I once waited for a landlady outside her place of work and walked to the ATM with her...Got most of it back then but the rest took months

That's terrible it gives good landlords a bad name, I was a LL myself and I think I was really good to my tenant we ended up friends after. My LL once wanted to keep 2 months rent on me because the bank paid her twice she said she would keep it for the forthcoming months rent so that I didn't have to pay her again, I refused as I said I cant give you 1100 extra she eventually returned it less 150 as she said that she was putting the rent up and was deducting the following months rent from that money so you can imagine what I am dealing with. I am on 2 minds as to whether I should report her for the state the house is in but dont want any extra hassle to be honest.

ted1

2 weeks to a month. Landlord needs to ensure that all utility bills are cleared. Electricity , Gas, bins. That can actually take a while

Catlady76

ted1 wrote: »

2 weeks to a month. Landlord needs to ensure that all utility bills are cleared. Electricity , Gas, bins. That can actually take a while

Yeah we cleared all of them, closed accounts and passed on her details to each provider everything was on DD so all bar one for the bins is clear which I will sort this week.
We got the place professionally cleaned and cleared out all rubbish, cut grass, cleaned shed and back garden does not have any debris or rubbish in it. The house has some wear & tear but seen as it was not done up since the 80's it looks alot worse. When we took on the house it was filthy, not cleaned and garden was in a state with grass up to our waists we sorted all that out as when we asked her to so it she said well if you want to move in that bad you can just do it yourself we should have known better but needed somewhere fast.

Doop

ted1 wrote: »

2 weeks to a month. Landlord needs to ensure that all utility bills are cleared. Electricity , Gas, bins. That can actually take a while

But these wouldn't be in the landlords name?

ELM327

Doop wrote: »

But these wouldn't be in the landlords name?

They wont, but if the tenant hasnt paid the bill the utilities could be cut off.
They should have been transferred to the LL name on the day of moving out.

wildwillow

As a landlord I've always returned the deposit as soon as house is vacated and inspected, usually on the same day.

Once I almost returned a deposit to a group of girls the day before they were due to move but thought better of it. Some of their friends joined them later and held a party there that night and did considerable damage to carpets and left burn marks on surfaces, including the mantelpiece.

I held a good portion of the deposit, not actually enough to cover all the damage. It was before the RTB so they brought me to the small claims court for deposit return. Luckily I had taken photos on the previous day when I inspected and could compare them with the damage.

The judge was very gentle with them but said they were lucky I wasn't charging them more than the deposit for the repairs. One set of parents apologised afterwards as they were unaware of the whole story.

I was sorry for the girls as things had got out of hand and they had been excellent tenants.

ted1

Doop wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

2 weeks to a month. Landlord needs to ensure that all utility bills are cleared. Electricity , Gas, bins. That can actually take a while

But these wouldn't be in the landlords name?

They need to be cleared otherwise they could be cut off. Also it’s in the T&Cs of every lease that they are paid and cleared.

big syke

ELM327 wrote: »

They wont, but if the tenant hasnt paid the bill the utilities could be cut off.
They should have been transferred to the LL name on the day of moving out.

That's just not true. The utilities will not be cut off.

Askthe EA

I had a funny one a few years back, group of students renting out a house. They moved out in dribs and drabs so we wouldnt return the deposit until they were all out. This ultimately meant that one girl was waiting 3 weeks before the last moved out.

Her parents were on every week putting pressure on for her deposit alone to go back as she had left her room tidy. We refused. They got angrier and angrier.

When they all finally left, the place was a kip. Took pictures, got cleaners in, replaced damaged appliances etc (including the mattress from their daughters room). Wasnt much left of the deposit to give back. The parents went mad. Arrived into the office demanding to see photographic evidence and invoices, I asked them were they sure, they mightnt like what theyd see. They didnt take the hint.

Proceeded to show them the pictures of the house which were poor, but when it came to their little darlings room, they went pale. Stood up and walked out. We never heard from them again. Im not sure the father wanted to see the (copious) evidence of his little girls nightime entertainment.

Moral of the story, experienced landlords never rush to give deposits back.

Askthe EA

big syke wrote: »

That's just not true. The utilities will not be cut off.

They can be cut off if the bills werent paid. Until the utility company signs up the landlord as the new account holder the tenants are liable. If cut off has been put in motion and its carried out the landlord is liable for reconnection fee. This would come from the deposit.

The_Conductor

big syke wrote: »

That's just not true. The utilities will not be cut off.

If the tenant does not transfer the utilities back to the property owner on the day they move out, along with a final reading, and ensure that they clear the bill- it remains associated with the tenant- and if its not cleared- it most certainly could be cut off.

Nothing in life is free.

dudara

In my past tenancies, the landlord has provided me with a cheque on the day of moving out, following inspection. I’d be willing to wait two weeks max but obviously the sooner, the better.

Catlady76

Well an update is that she was showing 2 couples the house yesterday to rent it for a way higher price then we were paying and she is not selling even though we were told that was the reason she was ending the tenancy so I am getting onto the RTB today its not acceptable to do that.

Catlady76

The_Conductor wrote: »

If the tenant does not transfer the utilities back to the property owner on the day they move out, along with a final reading, and ensure that they clear the bill- it remains associated with the tenant- and if its not cleared- it most certainly could be cut off.

Nothing in life is free.

All bills were cleared on the day we moved out all bar one was paid via DD so none are outstanding.

Doop

The_Conductor wrote: »

If the tenant does not transfer the utilities back to the property owner on the day they move out, along with a final reading, and ensure that they clear the bill- it remains associated with the tenant- and if its not cleared- it most certainly could be cut off.

Nothing in life is free.

It takes one phone call to each utility to transfer back to the LL name... if there is a debt.. it follows the tenant, using 'transfer of utilities' as an excuse for a two week or more holding of a deposit is simply unfair, there may be other reasons but this imo is simply not valid, pick up the phone get it done... simples.

Side note..Why the govt cant get its act together to set up a holding authority/agency is beyond me

ELM327

big syke wrote: »

That's just not true. The utilities will not be cut off.

I worked in an energy supply company in a past employment and still do some freelance consulting for them.


For residential and smaller business customers (essentially LVMD and below) the switchover process is you give your final meter reading on the date of closure. Your supplier then sends a notice to ESBN of this to terminate the customer at the MPRN. If no new customer is assigned within 7 days a disconnect is scheduled.


So. You can say "that's just not true" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that that is absolutely how it works.

ELM327

Doop wrote: »

It takes one phone call to each utility to transfer back to the LL name... if there is a debt.. it follows the tenant, using 'transfer of utilities' as an excuse for a two week or more holding of a deposit is simply unfair, there may be other reasons but this imo is simply not valid, pick up the phone get it done... simples.

Side note..Why the govt cant get its act together to set up a holding authority/agency is beyond me

You cannot "sign someone else" up to an account.
You can only close yours.


You used to be able to give the name of the new occupant and sign them up. Nowadays you can give the name of the new occupant but all that does is send the letter advising that no customer is assigned to that MPRN in the name that you give, instead of the standard "the occupant".

Catlady76

Can anyone now advise on where I stand in regards to her renting the place out again even though she told us she was selling and sent a letter from a solicitor saying that but now is showing it to people to rent out I am sure that is not legal to do that?

TheChizler

The_Conductor wrote: »

If the tenant does not transfer the utilities back to the property owner on the day they move out, along with a final reading, and ensure that they clear the bill- it remains associated with the tenant- and if its not cleared- it most certainly could be cut off.

Nothing in life is free.

There is no need for the landlord to make sure all previous bills have been cleared though (under data protection regulations should it even be possible for them to find out?) as they can just get the connection put in their name the day the tenant moves out, which is the original point that poster seemed to be making.

ELM327

Catlady76 wrote: »

Can anyone now advise on where I stand in regards to her renting the place out again even though she told us she was selling and sent a letter from a solicitor saying that but now is showing it to people to rent out I am sure that is not legal to do that?

take a case with the PTRB, procedure is on their website
retain any evidence you can. Burden of proof is on you. (He who asserts must prove)

Doop

Catlady76 wrote: »

Can anyone now advise on where I stand in regards to her renting the place out again even though she told us she was selling and sent a letter from a solicitor saying that but now is showing it to people to rent out I am sure that is not legal to do that?

Is the property in a rent pressure zone?

I think you can go to the RTB however, someone else may be better able to advise, unfortunately what you describe is getting more and more common. RPZ's great in theory but seems to be little backup/enforcement.

ELM327

Doop wrote: »

Is the property in a rent pressure zone?

I think you can go to the RTB however, someone else may be better able to advise, unfortunately what you describe is getting more and more common. RPZ's great in theory but seems to be little backup/enforcement.

RPZ is irrelevant here
The issue is that notice of termination was served on the grounds of selling the property


If that is no longer the case then the LL is obliged to give first refusal to the OP.

Catlady76

ELM327 wrote: »

take a case with the PTRB, procedure is on their website
retain any evidence you can. Burden of proof is on you. (He who asserts must prove)

Yes have some proof neighbor saw her last night showing 2 couple the house and they were asking her after what was the area like as they were thinking of renting the place but I cant seem to find the house on any sites just looking now so will go to the RTB.

Catlady76

Doop wrote: »

Is the property in a rent pressure zone?

I think you can go to the RTB however, someone else may be better able to advise, unfortunately what you describe is getting more and more common. RPZ's great in theory but seems to be little backup/enforcement.

Yes Dublin 24 if we had stayed out rent could only go up by €50 whereas if she rented out out she can get a much higher price we were paying 1300 and its in Kingswood a nice area in Dublin where rental properties are going for up to 2k.
I was a LL myself for 3 years and I would never have done anything like this, I am getting onto RTB now and also reporting her to the council even though its a private house to have it inspected because its not up to standard at all I had a guy survey it for me before we left because of all the problems and he said it needed to be completely gutted, electrics were bad, plumbing etc..

Browney7

Catlady76 wrote: »

Yes Dublin 24 if we had stayed out rent could only go up by €50 whereas if she rented out out she can get a much higher price we were paying 1300 and its in Kingswood a nice area in Dublin where rental properties are going for up to 2k.
I was a LL myself for 3 years and I would never have done anything like this, I am getting onto RTB now and also reporting her to the council even though its a private house to have it inspected because its not up to standard at all I had a guy survey it for me before we left because of all the problems and he said it needed to be completely gutted, electrics were bad, plumbing etc..

If you go now you are effectively tipping her off and she can just make you an offer you won't be in a position to accept and she's golden. I'd be giving her a few weeks - call round to the house in a month to pick up any post that might have come and you can then assess whether she's done some wrong. You've no conclusive proof yet. Does she have a forwarding address to contact you at to give you first refusal if she has changed her mind?

ted1

Doop wrote: »

The_Conductor wrote: »

If the tenant does not transfer the utilities back to the property owner on the day they move out, along with a final reading, and ensure that they clear the bill- it remains associated with the tenant- and if its not cleared- it most certainly could be cut off.

Nothing in life is free.

It takes one phone call to each utility to transfer back to the LL name... if there is a debt.. it follows the tenant, using 'transfer of utilities' as an excuse for a two week or more holding of a deposit is simply unfair, there may be other reasons but this imo is simply not valid, pick up the phone get it done... simples.

Side note..Why the govt cant get its act together to set up a holding authority/agency is beyond me

It’s a condition of leases that all utilities are paid. That needs to be verified , from the time of giving the last meter reading to issuing a bill to payment clearing. To the landlord verifying this takes a few days.

TheChizler

ted1 wrote: »

It’s a condition of leases that all utilities are paid. That needs to be verified , from the time of giving the last meter reading to issuing a bill to payment clearing. To the landlord verifying this takes a few days.

What's the logic in waiting until the tenant's bill has been cleared once the landlord has put the connection in their name? The landlord cannot be chased for it and the process of cutting off the connection cannot start once in the landlord's name.

ted1

TheChizler wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

It’s a condition of leases that all utilities are paid. That needs to be verified , from the time of giving the last meter reading to issuing a bill to payment clearing. To the landlord verifying this takes a few days.

What's the logic in waiting until the tenant's bill has been cleared once the landlord has put the connection in their name? The landlord cannot be chased for it and the process of cutting off the connection cannot start once in the landlord's name.

Because it’s a condition of the lease.

TheChizler

ted1 wrote: »

Because it’s a condition of the lease.

What's the benefit to the landlord in obstinately following this condition?

Edit: The condition is that the tenant must pay all bills, that doesn't mean the landlord has to wait to check that they have been paid, just that it's the tenant's responsibility to pay, not the landlord.

Askthe EA

Doop wrote: »

It takes one phone call to each utility to transfer back to the LL name... if there is a debt.. it follows the tenant, using 'transfer of utilities' as an excuse for a two week or more holding of a deposit is simply unfair, there may be other reasons but this imo is simply not valid, pick up the phone get it done... simples.

Side note..Why the govt cant get its act together to set up a holding authority/agency is beyond me

You're missing the point. If the bills were unpaid, disconnection might already be in train. LL pays deposit back in the morning, ESB disconnect in the afternoon, LL is left with the cost of reconnection. Waiting a few days is prudent.

Catlady76

Browney7 wrote: »

If you go now you are effectively tipping her off and she can just make you an offer you won't be in a position to accept and she's golden. I'd be giving her a few weeks - call round to the house in a month to pick up any post that might have come and you can then assess whether she's done some wrong. You've no conclusive proof yet. Does she have a forwarding address to contact you at to give you first refusal if she has changed her mind?

She has a forwarding address, email & contact numbers for us both. We dont want to move back in there as we are currently house hunting but its more the fact that she has been very sneaky about all of this. she has 13 houses and apparently we were in the nicest one which was / is a kip. I just feel that LL should not be able to get away with doing things like this but I get where you are coming from on waiting a few weeks to see who is living there and getting evidence.

ted1

TheChizler wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Because it’s a condition of the lease.

What's the benefit to the landlord in obstinately following this condition?

Edit: The condition is that the tenant must pay all bills, that doesn't mean the landlord has to wait to check that they have been paid, just that it's the tenant's responsibility to pay, not the landlord.

Because there is still a risk of being cut off.

Also unscrupulous tenants may change the utility back into the landlord s name before they move out.

I just had a €10,700 bill written off by ESB. Quite a stressful month

Browney7

Catlady76 wrote: »

She has a forwarding address, email & contact numbers for us both. We dont want to move back in there as we are currently house hunting but its more the fact that she has been very sneaky about all of this. she has 13 houses and apparently we were in the nicest one which was / is a kip. I just feel that LL should not be able to get away with doing things like this but I get where you are coming from on waiting a few weeks to see who is living there and getting evidence.

So the evidence you have for a case is more clear:
She won't be able to say she couldn't get in touch with you to reoffer you the place for rent after she decided not to sell.

You'll need to prove that someone else is now renting the property within a few months of you leaving and that she made no attempt to offer the property back to you.

I'm not for a moment suggesting you do nothing. She asked you to leave the property under false pretences as she'l appears to be on the make. She's being quite foolish not giving you the deposit back instantly if this is what she is actually up to.

Catlady76

Browney7 wrote: »

So the evidence you have for a case is more clear:
She won't be able to say she couldn't get in touch with you to reoffer you the place for rent after she decided not to sell.

You'll need to prove that someone else is now renting the property within a few months of you leaving and that she made no attempt to offer the property back to you.

I'm not for a moment suggesting you do nothing. She asked you to leave the property under false pretences as she'l appears to be on the make. She's being quite foolish not giving you the deposit back instantly if this is what she is actually up to.

Thanks for the good advice we actually received a statutory notice from her solicitor saying the property was being sold and a letter from her also saying that but the neighbors told me she does this all the time to get tenants out who she knows are there a long time and who she cant hike the rent up on.

Browney7

Catlady76 wrote: »

Thanks for the good advice we actually received a statutory notice from her solicitor saying the property was being sold and a letter from her also saying that but the neighbors told me she does this all the time to get tenants out who she knows are there a long time and who she cant hike the rent up on.

You can't rely on what the neighbour is telling you - it's hearsay, they don't know for sure.

It's LL's pulling strokes like this that will result in the removal of the "sale of property" grounds for termination for genuine honest landlords.

Catlady76

Browney7 wrote: »

You can't rely on what the neighbour is telling you - it's hearsay, they don't know for sure.

It's LL's pulling strokes like this that will result in the removal of the "sale of property" grounds for termination for genuine honest landlords.

I agree like I was selling my apt in 2016 & gave loads of notice to my tenant and showed her proof I was selling it so that all went grand as I was honest but this LL is not one of the good ones for ex. The porch literally fell out on top of my husbands head one day he was going out we called her and asked for it to be fixed it came out from the frame onto the ground she sent some blokes around to just put in a complete new door & frame and left the porch area open with broke tiles that were slippy with the frame area all exposed and never finished the door, I asked her to get it completed and we were told do some DIY and finish it if you want it done of course we never did because I told her it was her responsibility, we both fell twice on the slippy tiles when going out to work they are very dangerous, no services were done & if you got something fixed yourself and then told her she was lose the plot she is very unprofessional to be honest, I dont need the drama of it all but do want my deposit back and also I dont think she should get away with it all.

TheChizler

ted1 wrote: »

Because there is still a risk of being cut off.

Also unscrupulous tenants may change the utility back into the landlord s name before they move out.

I just had a €10,700 bill written off by ESB. Quite a stressful month

I could be wrong, but I don't think an electricity supplier can allow an new account to be created once a disconnection has been ordered?

Edit: Kinda separate, but what is the legal basis for a landlord paying a debt on behalf of a tenant? What if there was a dispute about the amount of the bill or something similar, but the landlord paid it from the security deposit without the tenant's consent. What would the RTB's take on this be, has it come up before?

ted1

TheChizler wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Because there is still a risk of being cut off.

Also unscrupulous tenants may change the utility back into the landlord s name before they move out.

I just had a €10,700 bill written off by ESB. Quite a stressful month

I could be wrong, but I don't think an electricity supplier can allow an new account to be created once a disconnection has been ordered?

Edit: Kinda separate, but what is the legal basis for a landlord paying a debt on behalf of a tenant? What if there was a dispute about the amount of the bill or something similar, but the landlord paid it from the security deposit without the tenant's consent. What would the RTB's take on this be, has it come up before?

He can hold the deposit till the terms and conditions of the lease are satisfied. Dues y have to pay it.

In my case the tenant got a prepay meter removed. And said nothing.

TheChizler

ted1 wrote: »

He can hold the deposit till the terms and conditions of the lease are satisfied. Dues y have to pay it.

In my case the tenant got a prepay meter removed. And said nothing.

Yes but do the terms and conditions of the lease state that the landlord can pay 3rd party debts on behalf of the tenant out of the security deposit, or is there a legal provision for this? What's the legal basis for this?

From the RTB's onestopshop (there may be a more official/legal source):

Outstanding utility bills and other charges
If the tenant owes money for utility bills, such as gas or electricity, and the utility bill is in the landlord’s name, the landlord may withhold part or all of the deposit to cover these costs. The tenant should always retain a copy of the bills to ensure that payment is applicable to what is being owed

(A reconnection fee isn't necessarily a 3rd party debt as it's a cost inflicted on the landlord so they would be fully justified paying that out of the deposit, but the previous tenant's bill for usage certainly is none of the landlord's business IMO)

ted1

The landlord doesn’t have to pay it with the deposit. They can hold onto the deposit until it’s paid.

TheChizler

ted1 wrote: »

The landlord doesn’t have to pay it with the deposit. They can hold onto the deposit until it’s paid.

Again, what is the legal basis for this?

ted1

TheChizler wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

The landlord doesn’t have to pay it with the deposit. They can hold onto the deposit until it’s paid.

Again, what is the legal basis for this?

Again ,You are asking a different question. I’m not sure of the legal basis for the landlord paying the bill. I’m not suggesting that there is.

However There is a contract that state the tenant must pay for utilities. And as such until the terms of the contract are fulfilled the landlord can hold the deposit.

TheChizler

ted1 wrote: »

Again ,You are asking a different question. I’m not sure of the legal basis for the landlord paying the bill. I’m not suggesting that there is.

However There is a contract that state the tenant must pay for utilities. And as such until the terms of the contract are fulfilled the landlord can hold the deposit.

I'm asking a question based on a claim you're making, that the landlord can hold onto a deposit until the tenant has settled their debts with third parties. Where does the law allow for this? Or is it something specific inserted into a contract. I've never seen that condition in a lease.