So Liberty Insurance is doing well...

UsBus

Was in Ashford Castle today. When we went to go in around the castle we were told it was off limits. Liberty insurance had booked the place out for 4 days. They must have stumped up some amount well in advance to book up the castle for the June bank holiday weekend...!!

So how's your car insurance premium these days...???

TheValeyard

Burn the place down?

Maybe there insured by Liberty Insurance?

Pinch Flat

Sounds like they’re taking liberties booking that out for a weekend. The cheek.

Underground

I actually find them to be pretty reasonable, although that's just me. No idea if I'm an outlier or not.

Poor Uncle Tom

They're taking liberties, f**kin cheek.........

ironclaw

50,000 Employees and 38.3 billion USD in revenue in 2016. They are doing very well.

People really need to understand that insurance companies are not your friends. They are businesses. They are out to make money. The nicest office in any city you visit will be the insurance firm and their associated banks.

keysersoze0330

Have been with Liberty from the Quinn Direct days. First year they weren’t well below other quotes in about 6 years. Never even tried to match the other quote. They had no problem with losing the 2 policies.

McMurphy

ironclaw wrote: »

50,000 Employees and 38.3 billion USD in revenue in 2016. They are doing very well.

People really need to understand that insurance companies are not your friends. They are businesses. They are out to make money. The nicest office in any city you visit will be the insurance firm and their associated banks.

It's a lucrative business to get into, especially if your greatest salesman is the govt.

The law states that vehicles must be insured if you wish to use them on public road after all.

I'd be in favour of the state offering some insurance policies for motors, like they do in Australia for example.

Would definitely put some manners on the insurance cartels.

jimmynokia

UsBus wrote: »

Was in Ashford Castle today. When we went to go in around the castle we were told it was off limits. Liberty insurance had booked the place out for 4 days. They must have stumped up some amount well in advance to book up the castle for the June bank holiday weekend...!!

So how's your car insurance premium these days...???

Lots of corporate events on this weekend and to rub it in they can write off the cost of the event..

odyssey06

Sounds like I sold my soul to the wrong corporate entity.

Hector Bellend

Have an insurance ****

Cee-Jay-Cee

I have been driving for almost 30 years, no accidents, no claims, no penalty points, full NCB and Quinn and now Liberty have always given me utterly ridiculous quotations sometimes in excess of twice what I end up paying. I don’t even bother with them anymore.

Berserker

UsBus wrote: »

Was in Ashford Castle today. When we went to go in around the castle we were told it was off limits. Liberty insurance had booked the place out for 4 days. They must have stumped up some amount well in advance to book up the castle for the June bank holiday weekend...!!

So how's your car insurance premium these days...???

You must be doing very well if you can afford to go to Ashford castle on a bank holiday week. Your car insurance premium for the year would probably cost as much as a double room for a night. As for Liberty, hard to know how much the weekend costs them or who is paying for it. Do you know? Might be a group from the US operation who is over here for the weekend doing some team building. Might have absolutely nothing to do with their Irish operation at all.

Jimmy Dags

And they on marajane also.

CeilingFly

jimmynokia wrote: »

Lots of corporate events on this weekend and to rub it in they can write off the cost of the event..

Nope. Not any more

bazz26

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

It's a lucrative business to get into, especially if your greatest salesman is the govt.

The law states that vehicles must be insured if you wish to use them on public road after all.

I'd be in favour of the state offering some insurance policies for motors, like they do in Australia for example.

Would definitely put some manners on the insurance cartels.

I'm usually the last one to defend the likes of insurance companies but it does makes you wonder if the insurance game is so lucrative here then why aren't the other thousands of insurance companies around the world not queueing up to enter the "lucrative" Irish insurance market?

Between the compensation culture capitalising on ridiculous levels of injury payouts being handed out by the injury claim board, the ambulance chasing legal profession who stand to benefit more from higher payouts and insurance companies who just settle rather than risk losing more money in court I'd doubt verify much the Irish insurance market is as lucrative as is generally perceived.

Berserker

bazz26 wrote: »

I'm usually the last one to defend the likes of insurance companies but it does makes you wonder if the insurance game is so lucrative here then why aren't the other thousands of insurance companies around the world not queueing up to enter the "lucrative" Irish insurance market?

Because it's not really that lucrative. I worked on the pricing and claims side of insurance for years. Irish people seem to think that the rise in premiums automatically leads to an increase in profits for the insurer. They love to ignore factors like the cost of claims, for starters. Think about how much this claim cost, after all the legal fees, costs of claim handling at the firms etc were added up.

jaxxx

They quoted me €3,000 last year for my car insurance. Almost 3.5 times what I was on with my current insurance and twice as much as any new quotes from other companies. 9 years driving (including learner period), 8 years no claims in own name, 0 penalty points. They can quite literally suck diesel for all I care.

aido79

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I'd be in favour of the state offering some insurance policies for motors, like they do in Australia for example.

The Australian government doesn't offer insurance policies.This is a common misunderstanding.
Insurance is optional in Australia but when a person pays their registration fee(motor tax) they are covered if they damage someone's property such a house or if they kill someone in a car accident. It doesn't cover any damage to other cars or injuries so it doesn't work like an insurance policy.

Fr_Dougal

bazz26 wrote: »

I'm usually the last one to defend the likes of insurance companies but it does makes you wonder if the insurance game is so lucrative here then why aren't the other thousands of insurance companies around the world not queueing up to enter the "lucrative" Irish insurance market?

Between the compensation culture capitalising on ridiculous levels of injury payouts being handed out by the injury claim board, the ambulance chasing legal profession who stand to benefit more from higher payouts and insurance companies who just settle rather than risk losing more money in court I'd doubt verify much the Irish insurance market is as lucrative as is generally perceived.

Because it’s a closed shop in Ireland, they make it practically impossible for new entrants.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/insurance-market-raises-barriers-to-new-entrants-ksmvmbjd2

CeilingFly

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Because it’s a closed shop in Ireland, they make it practically impossible for new entrants.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/insurance-market-raises-barriers-to-new-entrants-ksmvmbjd2

No barrier whatsoever for entry. Any European insurer can underwrite here and many do via brokers.

Don't believe the sh1te in the media.

If you got rid of scammers, egged on by a select group of solicitors, you'd have far cheaper insurance.

Berserker

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Because it’s a closed shop in Ireland, they make it practically impossible for new entrants.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/insurance-market-raises-barriers-to-new-entrants-ksmvmbjd2

No, it's not. Can't read the full article but I'm guessing that they are talking about the regulatory requirements that new operators need to fulfill. Plenty of people in Ireland have insurance via brokers who act on behalf of insurers outside of the RoI. You may recall hearing about an insurer called Zenith who pulled out of the Irish market a year or two back because they were losing money, as a result of the cost of claims. They are based in Gibraltar.

Fr_Dougal

CeilingFly wrote: »

No barrier whatsoever for entry. Any European insurer can underwrite here and many do via brokers.

Don't believe the sh1te in the media.

If you got rid of scammers, egged on by a select group of solicitors, you'd have far cheaper insurance.

Berserker wrote: »

No, it's not. Can't read the full article but I'm guessing that they are talking about the regulatory requirements that new operators need to fulfill. Plenty of people in Ireland have insurance via brokers who act on behalf of insurers outside of the RoI. You may recall hearing about an insurer called Zenith who pulled out of the Irish market a year or two back because they were losing money, as a result of the cost of claims. They are based in Gibraltar.

A major investigation by the European Commission into motor insurance in Ireland is focusing on allegations that the industry has created obstacles for new players to enter the market.

Major investigation is ongoing.

questionmark?

50% cheaper than the next cheapest quote so much so when I told a broker he told me stop looking and take what they said. Must be drinking prosseco rather than champagne this weekend.

dr.fuzzenstein

The Irish have the softest necks in Europe.
This if course has absolutely "nothing" to do with the fact that payouts here are a multiple of what you will receive anywhere else.
The slightest twinge in the neck in Ireland is rewarded with €12-15k, in Germany you'd get around €2k, if even that.
Why? Because the level of payout goes by real, actual injuries.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/most-whiplash-claims-are-frankly-spurious-gp-body-says-1.3405144

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irelands-whiplash-claims-higher-than-many-in-europe-817619.html

https://amp.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/compo-culture-and-big-payouts-are-leading-to-surge-in-premiums-31492649.html

Solicitors are stoking a compo culture and everyone is paying for it.
I drive a 13 year old 2 liter diesel in Germany and it costs around 500 to insure and it will get cheaper next year because I've built up more no claims history.
Solicitors will be along now to very pointedly point out that award levels have nothing whatsoever to do with insurance levels, well, no one likes having their soup pissed into.

Eggs For Dinner

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Major investigation is ongoing.

You would think that they would have reported something by now if they found anything substantial, the amount of time they had had the information from their "raid"

Wibbs

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Solicitors will be along now to very pointedly point out that award levels have nothing whatsoever to do with insurance levels, well, no one likes having their soup pissed into.

Oh for too long too much of a percentage of the Irish law class have been gouging Irish people and businesses and the insurance biz is the perfect example, but they're not the only ones to blame.

There are the soft Irish necks you mentioned, though that's as much a symptom of the legal culture. You will always have people who will exploit such a culture. If Germans or Swedes or whomever got the same types of awards in court the same percentage would be complaining of sore necks.

The insurance companies have their issues and no mistake. Corporate bloat, stupid investments and a lack of transparency. The latter a big one. Take those award levels. They only release the figures awarded in court settlements, they keep the out of court settlement figures hidden. Those figures are the majority of settlements. Now given they will settle out of court more than they won't it stands to reason it's cheaper to do so, but we, the Irish public who have to pay as a legal requirement car insurance are left out of that loop. There's also the oddly mirrored policies of the insurance industry. So when one says no more cars over ten/fifteen years old the others do similar. Coincidence I'm sure...

Lastly the government. Successive Dails have sat by and watched the insurance industry make screw up after screw up and watched prices rise and effectively did nothing. Too many vested interests; the legal profession, the car industry, the insurance industry. The vested interest that voted them in, IE us are way down the list.

grogi

bazz26 wrote: »

I'm usually the last one to defend the likes of insurance companies but it does makes you wonder if the insurance game is so lucrative here then why aren't the other thousands of insurance companies around the world not queueing up to enter the "lucrative" Irish insurance market?.

Because https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0517/964061-motor-insurance-investigation/ ?

corks finest

UsBus wrote: »

Was in Ashford Castle today. When we went to go in around the castle we were told it was off limits. Liberty insurance had booked the place out for 4 days. They must have stumped up some amount well in advance to book up the castle for the June bank holiday weekend...!!

So how's your car insurance premium these days...???

Know,I'm insured by them,up again

2smiggy

my cars over 15 years old, only crowd that will insure me cause I'm with them already !!

Skobey_brady

Insurance is inherently profitable as the customer is legally obliged to buy the product on sale

Mint Sauce

jaxxx wrote: »

They quoted me €3,000 last year for my car insurance. Almost 3.5 times what I was on with my current insurance and twice as much as any new quotes from other companies. 9 years driving (including learner period), 8 years no claims in own name, 0 penalty points. They can quite literally suck diesel for all I care.

Liberty have never quoted me under 11 or €1200, their most expensive was about 1600, and have always been the most expensive every year, barr maybe FBD the odd year.

My most expensive renewal since my first two years of driving, with my current insurer, was this year at €700. Although that is a steady increase from €500 over the last few years.

This is 8 years with a full clean licence, 7 years NCB.

RacoonQueen

Underground wrote: »

I actually find them to be pretty reasonable, although that's just me. No idea if I'm an outlier or not.

Same here. Always work out much cheaper than other insurers for me.

Eggs For Dinner

Skobey_brady wrote: »

Insurance is inherently profitable as the customer is legally obliged to buy the product on sale

That makes no sense. Just because they take in lots of business doesn't mean they make profit on it. When you pay your premium, it is only at the end of the year do they know if it is a profit or a loss on you

Eggs For Dinner

grogi wrote: »

Because https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0517/964061-motor-insurance-investigation/ ?

Nearly a year and no findings :cool:

McMurphy

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

That makes no sense. Just because they take in lots of business doesn't mean they make profit on it. When you pay your premium, it is only at the end of the year do they know if it is a profit or a loss on you

The vast majority of people go claims free year on year, yet many (myself included) are seeing price increases in premiums.

Of course they're making profit, they'd go out of business otherwise.

odyssey06

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

The vast majority of people go claims free year on year, yet many (myself included) are seeing price increases in premiums.

Of course they're making profit, they'd go out of business otherwise.

As Quinn they v nearly did because they hadnt set aside enough reserves to cover potential claims.

US giant Liberty Mutual yesterday admitted it bought Quinn Insurance for €1, but insisted it had not gotten the Cavan insurer "on the cheap" since it came with net debts of €81m.
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/liberty-buys-insurance-unit-of-quinn-for-just-1-26729686.html

https://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0330/129345-quinn/

Eggs For Dinner

Johnny Dogs wrote:

The vast majority of people go claims free year on year, yet many (myself included) are seeing price increases in premiums.

Johnny Dogs wrote:

Of course they're making profit, they'd go out of business otherwise.

Insurers do go out of business, including the previous owners of Liberty, being discussed here. All insurers publish their profit & loss. They are slowly returning to profit after years of cumulative losses.

Skobey_brady

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

That makes no sense. Just because they take in lots of business doesn't mean they make profit on it. When you pay your premium, it is only at the end of the year do they know if it is a profit or a loss on you

Profit isn't guaranteed, incompetent people might be In charge, also insurance companies also invest in pensions which are risky, selling motor insurance however is a licence to print money, they can jack up the price by extortionate amounts yet the customer has no choice but to buy, its unique in that sense

Eggs For Dinner

Skobey_brady wrote:

Profit isn't guaranteed, incompetent people might be In charge, also insurance companies also invest in pensions which are risky, selling motor insurance however is a licence to print money, they can jack up the price by extortionate amounts yet the customer has no choice but to buy, its unique in that sense

So Worldwide insurers like AXA, Zurich, Allianz, Aviva, Liberty etc. dump their incompetent thieving staff in their Ireland branches, leaving them to act as White Knights in other jurisdictions, practically giving policies away for nothing?

Or could it be our cost of claims compared to elsewhere?

Tough one to work out

odyssey06

Also, remember the price of medical treatment here. If I am injured I will have to pay for this care privately to access it in a timely manner. Such costs need to be reimbursed through my insurance.

I am guessing that say in Germany or UK such treatment would be accessible, timely and free.

grogi

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Nearly a year and no findings :cool:

It is difficult to prove conspiracy. Throwing accusations without foundation bwould end up in court...

grogi

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

So Worldwide insurers like AXA, Zurich, Allianz, Aviva, Liberty etc. dump their incompetent thieving staff in their Ireland branches, leaving them to act as White Knights in other jurisdictions, practically giving policies away for nothing?

Or could it be our cost of claims compared to elsewhere?

Tough one to work out

There is an excuse (high claims) and a consensus among the insurers to charge as much as they can.

Eggs For Dinner

grogi wrote:

There is an excuse (high claims) and a consensus among the insurers to charge as much as they can.

So why hasn't even one insurer (who hasn't gone bang) broken away from the "cartel", offer reasonable premiums and mop up every bit of gravy out there?

Don't get me wrong, I think premiums are far too dear and not sustainable in the long run, I just feel the majority of the cause lies elsewhere

Berserker

grogi wrote: »

There is an excuse (high claims) and a consensus among the insurers to charge as much as they can.

Or are they charging as much as they need to stay in business? Quinn used to give people great deals on insurance. Reality was that they were not charging people enough to stay in business.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Also, remember the price of medical treatment here. If I am injured I will have to pay for this care privately to access it in a timely manner. Such costs need to be reimbursed through my insurance.

Yep and the hospital will happily charge the insurance company €824 (approx) a night for a public bed.

Poochie05

Looks like they may have told OP a little white lie about who had taken over the place...
https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2018/0607/968872-meghan-and-harry-rumoured-to-be-in-ireland-right-now/