Lexus IS300h

almostover

Hi all,
Thinking of changing my motor towards the back end of this year / early next year. Currently driving a 09 VW Passat Highline 110bhp 2.0tdi Bluemotion. Reasons for changing is I've the Passat coming up on 3 years and I fancy a change. The Passat is great on fuel, I'm averaging 57MPG, but it is slow and it's coming up on 300k kms. Having said that it is driving well and has been one of the more reliable cars that I've owned. 
I'd like to move away from diesel for my next car and also move to an automatic. I'm doing approx 30k kms per year. My driving is mixed, 5 days a week I drive a 30 km round trip to work through the Jack Lynch tunnel in Cork, most of it inching through traffic.  I make 2 trips a week to my home place for GAA commitments, approx 150km round trip on N and R roads. I do plenty of other trips on the weekend but all my driving is confined to N and R roads. I might make a few trips up the motorway each year but it's limited. 
My plan is to move the Passat on early next year once I put it through the NCT. It will get 2 years NCT and it will be worth as much money as it's ever going to be at that stage. I've kept it well and it owes me nothing.
Now for the new motor. I would like to move to a hybrid system. Seems to give the best of both worlds for the driving that I do and I believe there will be a clamp down on diesels in the future which may lead to more punitive taxes on the black pumps. The Lexus IS300H has really caught my eye. I like the styling, the interior quality looks great and the claimed fuel economy is good, but perhaps overestimated. Plus the car will come with the legendary Toyota/Lexus reliability. I see in some reviews that some motoring journalists were disappointed with the performance but coming from a 110bhp Passsat that will not be an issue for me. 
Some questions:
- What is a realistic fuel economy to expect? I'm not a boy racer and abide by the speed limits in general.
- I love the look of the F-sport trim. But will I be sacrificing comfort with the 18" alloys and firmer suspension?
- Are there any known faults?
- Is the CVT box as bad as the motoring journos say?
If anyone here has experience of this car I'd like to hear it. I'm 6 months or so away from a purchase but when the time comes I'd like to have all things considered and options weighed up. TIA

bidiots

search the thread, loads of information about for the 300h

ifeelstupid

Interested in this too, also thinking about moving from Passat (2010 CC), love my car but the elders struggle a bit getting in and out of it.

almostover

bidiots wrote: »

search the thread, loads of information about for the 300h

Have seen a few of these threads and my main 2 questions are:

1. Is my mileage and driving suitable for a hybrid?

2. I'd love to get an f sport model but I'd hate to compromise ride quality to do so. Is the f sport very firm especially with 18" alloys?

U_Fig

I helped my uncle buy one of  these a while back there. 
I can't really give much info but I noticed a lot of the reviews calling it sluggish. I have only driven it a handful of times and I did noticed that there can be a bit of a small delay caused by the CVT gearbox having to re-adjust under sudden heavy acceleration but by no means was it a deal breaker.  It is still plenty quick for real world driving
All of the reviews compare performance and handling to a BMW 3 series so i'd take them with a pinch of salt and try it yourself and make your own mind up.
The inside is joyful place to be the quality is fantastic seats are so comfy. infotainment is a bit finicky  due to the input methods but I found it OK and got used to it after a few mins, that wouldn't put me off buying one.
I do like the F-Sport looks better but it's cosmetic and I've heard there is a drop in comfort sue to the stiffer suspension, never experienced it first hand, the non F sport my uncle bought is comfy as hell.
If you are thinking of buying one check out the UK there is much better value and a bigger selection. the VRT is low too due to the low emissions.

colm_mcm

If you get the premium navigation the controls are super easy

TomOnBoard

CVTs can be whiny, but unless you drive it, you wont know if it's acceptable.

For your needs, I'd also look at the plug in hybrids. You'll get most of the way in on battery from an overnight charge, and home again if you can charge it again while at work.

Otherwise, It'll be tough to beat the fuel economy of a modern blue efficiency type diesel (in your scenario maybe a BMW 3 series) over a 30000 mile year.

almostover

TomOnBoard wrote: »

CVTs can be whiny, but unless you drive it, you wont know if it's acceptable.

For your needs, I'd also look at the plug in hybrids. You'll get most of the way in on battery from an overnight charge, and home again if you can charge it again while at work.

Otherwise, It'll be tough to beat the fuel economy of a modern blue efficiency type diesel (in your scenario maybe a BMW 3 series) over a 30000 mile year.

Doing about 30k kms a year at present or 18k miles in old money. What attracts me to the IS300h is the reliability and simplicity of the engine. No DPF, DMF etc to go wrong. I'd take a small hit in fuel bills to get the better reliability.

JCDUB

I recently bought a 2012 F-sport, albeit the ct200. Having come from an Audi A6 S-line I was expecting the ride quality to be hard. However so far it's fine. I have non-factory 18s with low profiles and I don't find the ride too hard at all.

CVT gearbox and power in mine certainly won't make your hair stand on end, however in sport mode it's pretty engaging to drive.

I know mines a different car but hopefully this is of some use!

Ihackedboardz

Bought the Exec version 2.5 years ago, brought it in from the UK, averaging at the moment 53-55 mpg but this drops to about 45-47 mpg during the winter.

it has plenty of power when you want, 0-60 mph is 8.6 which won't set the world on fire but it's overtaking 40-70 is very quick (I find that's more important in real world driving).

as previous posters said, it's a lovely place to be when cruising or stuck in traffic etc... quiet comfy effortless... plus I really love the look of them

downsides, the infotainment is clunky, the standard nav is a bit naff & fiddly, but you still have all the basic stuff, nav, dab, bluetooth & controls for your spotify etc.

you mentioned parents giving issues with egress & ingress, the car seats are quiet low so that may be an issue, I have elderly parents who whinge about the seats being so low so you may want to test drive first & test it out on one of them...

Can't comment on the F sport, even nicer looking then the normal but the suspension is firmer I believe, if your looking for a sports car it's not the car you should be looking for but if you want something thats bullet proof (it's a posh toyota at the end of the day!), looks good, gives great mpg, so so comfy... & is a pleasure to waft around in look no further!

All in all I would highly recommend, it'll be a very nice upgrade from the passat, as someone else mentioned if your a cash buyer I would defo recommend the UK route, you'll save yourself & packet along with vrt being low due to being a hybrid (top of my head I think I paid approx 2300 vrt).

TomOnBoard

I don't get the logic in the argument for bringing a hybrid in from the UK. As VRT is lower on a hybrid due to its CO2 figure, then surely the price of an Irish registered vehicle ought to be closer to that of a UK one than would be the case for a high-VRT car? Or is it the case that the base price in Ireland is much higher than in the UK, or are our depreciation rates lower?

Confused!!

Ihackedboardz

Base price is a good bit higher or at least it was when I purchased... saved myself about 5-7k when I did it

bazz26

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I don't get the logic in the argument for bringing a hybrid in from the UK. As VRT is lower on a hybrid due to its CO2 figure, then surely the price of an Irish registered vehicle ought to be closer to that of a UK one than would be the case for a high-VRT car? Or is it the case that the base price in Ireland is much higher than in the UK, or are our depreciation rates lower?

Confused!!

1. The car costs less to buy in the UK second hand than similar for sale here.
2. You get a €2,500 VRT rebate due it being a hybrid afaik.
3. Wider variety of models and spec in the UK.

Leonard Hofstadter

bazz26 wrote: »

1. The car costs less to buy in the UK second hand than similar for sale here.
2. You get a €2,500 VRT rebate due it being a hybrid afaik.
3. Wider variety of models and spec in the UK.

Do you get the rebate on used cars as well? Never knew it was possible, thought it was only if you were buying brand new! Definitely makes buying from the UK a very attractive option if used cars can get the rebate.

TomOnBoard

captainspeed wrote: »

Do you get the rebate on used cars as well? Never knew it was possible, thought it was only if you were buying brand new! Definitely makes buying from the UK a very attractive option if used cars can get the rebate.

AFAIK the VRT value produced by the VRT calculator takes any element of rebate into account.

TomOnBoard

On a separate note, what are these like for reliability if you're going back in the years? I'd imagine the motors, drivetrain and batteries must cost a fortune if they go wrong. Anyone here with experiences or knowledge of this aspect?

bazz26

It's basically the same tried and tested technology that the Prius has been using and selling for nearly 2 decades.

TomOnBoard

bazz26 wrote: »

It's basically the same tried and tested technology that the Prius has been using and selling for nearly 2 decades.

And does the Prius have any particular reliability issues? How long are the batteries good for?

bazz26

I don't think the batteries give much trouble in them, there are lots of them being driven around as taxis with hundreds of thousands kilometers on them.

Leonard Hofstadter

Hybrid is super reliable. Main problem is they're automatic only and the CVT gearbox makes a racket any time you want to get a move on because it makes the engine revs soar. But if you don't mind that there is no reason not to buy one.

colm_mcm

You can turn on fake engine noise in the cabin so it makes the engine sound better.

almostover

Doing some more research and despite the good looks of the F-Sport I'm leaning more towards a model in Advance spec. Plenty of gadgets but with standard suspension and 17" wheels. Some of my journeys would be on roughish roads and I'm not sure I could live with the ride quality of the f-sport suspension and 18" wheels. Does this mean I'm getting old?

Ihackedboardz

your just appreciating refinement more & more

almostover

Starting to get the finances together for this purchase. Looking up the VRT calculator online and the VRT seems very low.....at €1478 for an early 2014 luxury spec with 31k miles. The open market selling price quoted by revenue is €14864 but cars like this are selling for 20k plus in Ireland.Doing my calculations here, £15k for the car = €16400 + 1500 VRT +€500 travel expenses = €18500. Similar spec and mileage examples here going for 22-24k so a 4-6k saving available. Is the VRT quote guaranteed to be the price paid when clearing the car? €1500 VRT seems very low

TomOnBoard

almost over wrote: »

Starting to get the finances together for this purchase. Looking up the VRT calculator online and the VRT seems very low.....at €1478 for an early 2014 luxury spec with 31k miles. The open market selling price quoted by revenue is €14864 but cars like this are selling for 20k plus in Ireland.Doing my calculations here, £15k for the car = €16400 + 1500 VRT +€500 travel expenses = €18500. Similar spec and mileage examples here going for 22-24k so a 4-6k saving available. Is the VRT quote guaranteed to be the price paid when clearing the car? €1500 VRT seems very low

The VRT calculator is quite accurate if your exact model is in the database. If its not, the actual calculation may produce a slight difference. The VRT may be a bit lower that youre expecting because of the rebate given for EVs and hybrids.

almostover

Crazy that you can't precisely determine VRT bill prior to a car purchase. This is Ireland I suppose:mad:

colm_mcm

almostover wrote: »

Starting to get the finances together for this purchase. Looking up the VRT calculator online and the VRT seems very low.....at €1478 for an early 2014 luxury spec with 31k miles. The open market selling price quoted by revenue is €14864 but cars like this are selling for 20k plus in Ireland.Doing my calculations here, £15k for the car = €16400 + 1500 VRT +€500 travel expenses = €18500. Similar spec and mileage examples here going for 22-24k so a 4-6k saving available. Is the VRT quote guaranteed to be the price paid when clearing the car? €1500 VRT seems very low

It’s entirely possible to get a 2014 one with around 100k miles in and in the road for under €15k.

I don’t think they’re actually selling for big money outside of Lexus Ireland dealers.

TomOnBoard

colm_mcm wrote: »

It’s entirely possible to get a 2014 one with around 100k miles in and in the road for under €15k.

I don’t think they’re actually selling for big money outside of Lexus Ireland dealers.

You're comparing a 100k miler at €15k with a 30k miler at €18.5k. Surely the fact that the UK car has so much lower miles (being only 30% of the Irish car) would count for a lot??

almostover

TomOnBoard wrote: »

You're comparing a 100k miler at €15k with a 30k miler at €18.5k. Surely the fact that the UK car has so much lower miles (being only 30% of the Irish car) would count for a lot??

Can't find any with sub 50k miles in Ireland in the Luxury spec with premium navigation and heated & cooled leather seats. Anything with such a spec in Ireland and with similar miles is 22k plus.

almostover

Ireland: https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-is300h-is-300h-luxury-cvt/19003510

UK: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201711231520067?logcode=visc&fromSA=true

On the presumption I can knock £500-1000 off the UK model for a sold as seen sale there is a €6k saving available by going to the UK.

TomOnBoard

almostover wrote: »

Ireland: https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-is300h-is-300h-luxury-cvt/19003510

UK: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201711231520067?logcode=visc&fromSA=true

On the presumption I can knock £500-1000 off the UK model for a sold as seen sale there is a €6k saving available by going to the UK.

I'd be stunned if you will knock anything material off the price. Most car supermarkets claim no-haggle prices and typically don't budge. Also, most have an additional Admin charge of at least a couple of hundred. By contrast, the Cork car (which is obviously a UK import also) comes with a warranty, and is priced at main dealer pricing which woukd surely facilitate a discount of 1 or 2 grand if youre not trading anything in.

Not trying to put you off, but you might need to check the UK car for:

a) why has the car not been taxed since Nov. 2017? It will need to be taxed ( probably very cheap to do) before you take it onto the road.
b) whats the reason for the inner tyre edges of the rear showing undue wear as per the MOT advisories? It might be nothing, but it would be worth checking out.
c) what was done in its most recent (non main dealer) service?

almostover

TomOnBoard wrote: »

almostover wrote: »

Ireland: https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-is300h-is-300h-luxury-cvt/19003510

UK: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201711231520067?logcode=visc&fromSA=true

On the presumption I can knock £500-1000 off the UK model for a sold as seen sale there is a €6k saving available by going to the UK.

I'd be stunned if you will knock anything material off the price. Most car supermarkets claim no-haggle prices and typically don't budge. Also, most have an additional Admin charge of at least a couple of hundred.  By contrast, the Cork car (which is obviously a UK import also) comes with a warranty, and is priced at main dealer pricing which woukd surely facilitate a discount of 1 or 2 grand if youre not trading anything in.

Not trying to put you off, but you might need to check the UK car for:

a) why has the car not been taxed since Nov. 2017? It will need to be taxed ( probably very cheap to do) before you take it onto the road.
b) whats the reason for the inner tyre edges of the rear showing undue wear as per the MOT advisories? It might be nothing, but it would be worth checking out.
c) what was done in its most recent (non main dealer) service?

Was just using that car as an example not necessarily considering buying it. However, you've highlighted some interesting questions.
a) How would I tax a car in the UK when  I don't have an UK address?
b) Where did you get access to the previous MOT records? Normally this is only available when doing a HPI/History check which must be paid for? I've done some research on the IS300H and wear on the inside of rear tyres is common and as a result of the rear camber which is set by Lexus at the factory and cannot be altered. Don't think it's anything sister like bad suspension alignment due to a crash.....
c) Add says 3 main dealer services, not sure where you've got info that last service was non-dealer?

almostover

Managed to figure out (b) myself..................https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/

TomOnBoard

almostover wrote: »

Was just using that car as an example not necessarily considering buying it. However, you've highlighted some interesting questions.
a) How would I tax a car in the UK when  I don't have an UK address?
b) Where did you get access to the previous MOT records? Normally this is only available when doing a HPI/History check which must be paid for? I've done some research on the IS300H and wear on the inside of rear tyres is common and as a result of the rear camber which is set by Lexus at the factory and cannot be altered. Don't think it's anything sister like bad suspension alignment due to a crash.....
c) Add says 3 main dealer services, not sure where you've got info that last service was non-dealer?

Re:

a) an untaxed car on UK roads is asking for trouble. Since ANPR became so prevalent, I've got my cars taxed by the dealer on my behalf the last two times I brought a car in.
b) youve found that
c) last main dlr dervice was at 25k in Feb 2017. Car now at 31k and its 16 months since then. So either its been serviced at a non dealer, OR it hasnt been serviced in that time. If the latter is true, then a car with 2 previous owners, no service in almost a year and a half, and untaxed or SORN'd for 7 months would ring alarm bells for me.

almostover

TomOnBoard wrote: »

almostover wrote: »

Was just using that car as an example not necessarily considering buying it. However, you've highlighted some interesting questions.
a) How would I tax a car in the UK when  I don't have an UK address?
b) Where did you get access to the previous MOT records? Normally this is only available when doing a HPI/History check which must be paid for? I've done some research on the IS300H and wear on the inside of rear tyres is common and as a result of the rear camber which is set by Lexus at the factory and cannot be altered. Don't think it's anything sister like bad suspension alignment due to a crash.....
c) Add says 3 main dealer services, not sure where you've got info that last service was non-dealer?

Re:

a) an untaxed car on UK roads is asking for trouble. Since ANPR became so prevalent, I've got my cars taxed by the dealer on my behalf the last two times I brought a car in.
b) youve found that
c) last main dlr dervice was at 25k in Feb 2017. Car now at 31k and its 16 months since then. So either its been serviced at a non dealer, OR it hasnt been serviced in that time.  If the latter is true, then a car with 2 previous owners, no service in almost a year and a half, and untaxed or SORN'd for 7 months would ring alarm bells for me.

The above is true. Not sure I trust these car supermarket type garages. I'm in no rush to buy so keeping my eyes peeled. This one is slightly older with more mileage but being sold by a Lexus dealer. Love the colour! MOT background is clean too. Slightly older meaning lower VRT of €929. Would be more in my price bracket. Only thing is see wrong is the lower parts of the drivers seat looks a little wrinkled but apparently this is common on the IS300h.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201805026120052?logcode=visc&fromSA=true

TomOnBoard

almostover wrote: »

The above is true. Not sure I trust these car supermarket type garages. I'm in no rush to buy so keeping my eyes peeled. This one is slightly older with more mileage but being sold by a Lexus dealer. Love the colour! MOT background is clean too. Slightly older meaning lower VRT of €929. Would be more in my price bracket. Only thing is see wrong is the lower parts of the drivers seat looks a little wrinkled but apparently this is common on the IS300h.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201805026120052?logcode=visc&fromSA=true

That Cardiff one looks sweet alright.

Main dlr with warranty, FSH. If a UK Lexus warranty is tenable in Ireland, that' d be nice. Also, delivery to a port of your choice is included. As its main dlr, and you'd be able to deal for cash, id be hitting them for a good discount. Unlike the car supermarkets, you can haggle with a dealer. Obviously its a year older with higher mileage, and you'd need to check no. of keepers and MOT history etc., but it still looks sweet to me..

colm_mcm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

You're comparing a 100k miler at €15k with a 30k miler at €18.5k. Surely the fact that the UK car has so much lower miles (being only 30% of the Irish car) would count for a lot??

Oh yeah, it’ll be more desirable for sure. I suppose my point is that they may be asking €22,500 but they’re likely to actually make €21k. IS300h prices here are heavily influenced by UK prices, and the Lexus network is in its own little bubble, but only a fraction of the ISs here are coming through Lexus a Ireland dealers.

Gazzaflage

Just recently completed a deal for a 2013 is300h f-sport from Lexus dealer in the north. There is a clear saving to be made importing these cars from uk or ni. Low miles, full Lexus history and they have given 2 year warranty. I asked what if the car breaks down in the south, will I need to get it brought back to NI and they advised that they will cover cost of same. Vrt was only €1077
Same car in republic would be anywhere from 24k - 26k.
All in with vrt it cost 21k.
My last car was 09 Honda Accord 2.2 Diesel.
So far really happy with Lexus and mpg seems to be similar!
One other thing to think about is servicing costs, need to be done every 10k miles and if you want the hybrid battery warranty to be extended then you will need to get it done at a Lexus dealer.

colm_mcm

That’s strange, assuming you bought in Charles Hurst. Maybe they’ve changed their policy since I was there but they checked the warranty and when pressed and came back saying it’d have to be transported to NI at customers expense.

Well wear on the new car, they’re the best kept secret out there!

Gazzaflage

Yes Charles Hurst Belfast. I hope they weren’t bull****ting me. I will have to look up the warranty documents. They advised me that if there was a serious problem they would get the car transported up to Belfast but if the problem was minor they would get a dealer in the south to look after me.
Il double check warranty and revert.

almostover

Gazzaflage wrote: »

Just recently completed a deal for a 2013 is300h f-sport from Lexus dealer in the north. There is a clear saving to be made importing these cars from uk or ni. Low miles, full Lexus history and they have given 2 year warranty. I asked what if the car breaks down in the south, will I need to get it brought back to NI and they advised that they will cover cost of same. Vrt was only €1077
Same car in republic would be anywhere from 24k - 26k.
All in with vrt it cost 21k.
My last car was 09 Honda Accord 2.2 Diesel.
So far really happy with Lexus and mpg seems to be similar!
One other thing to think about is servicing costs, need to be done every 10k miles and if you want the hybrid battery warranty to be extended then you will need to get it done at a Lexus dealer.

Is it possible to get the hybrid check only from a lexus dealer? The rest of the service is just and oil and oil filter and a host of visuals. The prices are very steep for the servicing. I'd be planning to do the oil and filter changes myself as I've done with all my car's and taking to lexus once a year for the hybrid check. Cars in my budget will be outside of manufactures warranty anyway. How do you find the ride in the f-sport. Was considering one but the 18' wheels and stiff suspension would put me off. I'd an Sri Opel a few years back and the ride quality suffered on the big alloys and stiff shocks.

PaulKK

Can you get these serviced at a Toyota dealer?

The running gear is last gen Toyota isnt it?

zilog_jones

almostover wrote: »

Is it possible to get the hybrid check only from a lexus dealer?

I do this for my Prius and the hybrid health check alone is €50 a year - I service it myself. I'd imagine there's something similar for Lexus.

colm_mcm

I think it’s €60 on a Lexus.

almostover

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think it’s €60 on a Lexus.

Good to know I can keep the battery under warranty and do the simple engine services myself. I have inquired about the car in Cardiff. I has had 5 services, one each year regardless of mileage and a hybrid health check performed each time. The 1 year warranty is transferable across Lexus Europe so will be covered in Ireland. Very tempted with this motor, awaiting Lexus Cardiff to send a video of the car as apparently it is at their preparation centre to ready it for the forecourt. The car was also sold new by this garage which is a plus. Tempted to place a deposit if car history check is clear and video shows car is in good nick. Have also inquired if the price is negotiable via email this evening given that I'm not seeking a trade in and I won't require finance. This will be a cash sale. Will realistically need to get it for £15k or else I'll exceed my 18k budget.

colm_mcm

What spec are you looking at? It’s a minefield

almostover

colm_mcm wrote: »

What spec are you looking at? It’s a minefield

Luxury. I has leather seats, heated but not cooled. Premium navigation with reversing camera. 17" alloys, cruise etc. Seats are manually adjustable. Have seen 1 or 2 with the heated and cooled leather with electric adjustment. My current car has heated seats and I have never wanted for a cooled seat as I just turn on the air con if I need to be cooled down. I have electrically adjustable seats in my current car but I could count on 1 hand how many times I've adjusted it. The spec suits me perfectly, enough toys for what I need.

colm_mcm

They’re the sweetspot spec wise IMO. The premium nav is a nice extra to have and the 17s are the right size for the car.

almostover

colm_mcm wrote: »

They’re the sweetspot spec wise IMO. The premium nav is a nice extra to have and the 17s are the right size for the car.

I like the look of the f-sport but the 18"s and stiff shocks would drive me nuts eventually!

colm_mcm

I personally find the wheels on the F Sport a bit tacky looking

No offence to anyone who has one obvs!

TomOnBoard

almostover wrote: »

Good to know I can keep the battery under warranty and do the simple engine services myself. I have inquired about the car in Cardiff. I has had 5 services, one each year regardless of mileage and a hybrid health check performed each time. The 1 year warranty is transferable across Lexus Europe so will be covered in Ireland. Very tempted with this motor, awaiting Lexus Cardiff to send a video of the car as apparently it is at their preparation centre to ready it for the forecourt. The car was also sold new by this garage which is a plus. Tempted to place a deposit if car history check is clear and video shows car is in good nick. Have also inquired if the price is negotiable via email this evening given that I'm not seeking a trade in and I won't require finance. This will be a cash sale. Will realistically need to get it for £15k or else I'll exceed my 18k budget.

Get them to give you the depths of each tyre and whether theyre all even. Ask them whether the rears toe/camber issue mentioned previously as a common issue has been present / dealt with. Also, as theyve been the service centre since new, ask them for the full print-out of all work done.

Also if it gets to a deal, get MOT for a year. Youll be able to get that converted to an NCT cert back here.if youre going to drive it to a ferry, they/ or you'll need to tax it.