Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

Deisefacts

thesaturdayman wrote: »

it took a while & without trying to attack or defame anyone - but at least now there is decent dialogue around things. The issue is, when you approach county board ppl or even try and engage with them the guards go up and you are completely stone walled.

I have my own ideas why & i hope some day the answers will be made public

In the interim, there should be a public petition to abolish the divisional boards - with immediate effect.

Ronald Regan said it best "tear down the wall mr gorbachev divisional and county board men"

Your dead right. At least now people are talking about it and the more that talk about it the better. But, and here is where our biggest problem exist. The county secretary is readily and openly encouraging the east/west divide at minor hurling level last year and this year even though it was agreed a number of years ago that all underage championships from minor down were to be run on a county basis. In the “c” championship of 2018 was divided into east and west. This years “b”&”c” championships have been proposed to run on an east west basis by the secretary.

Giveitfong

In Cork, Clare and Galway football and hurling are largely played in different parts of the county and there is limited overlap between the two. That is also the case with Kerry. In Waterford there are numerous clubs trying to be good at both – Abbeyside/Ballinacourty, Fourmilewater/The Nire, Clonea/Rathgormack, Ring, Ardmore, Clashmore/Kinsalebeg, Brickey Rangers, Dunhill (at least in the past). I could include Dungarvan, but they seem to be putting more emphasis on hurling these days, and are more competitive at it as a result. In some clubs this creates internal tensions which does nobody any good.

It is very unusual to have a major sporting organisation which runs two different sports, with lots of players in some counties playing both simultaneously. This creates all sorts of organisational and performance difficulties. Players who play both sports seriously will rarely be as good at either as players who concentrate on one or the other. In my view this is seriously holding Waterford back compared with counties where there is limited overlap between the two games. Waterford’s top three or four football clubs are usually competitive in the Munster championship but the county team is never going to be seriously competitive when the top dual players invariably opt to play hurling for the county.

Abbeyside were very strong at hurling in the 1950s and the 1960s when Ballinacourty were a weak junior football club. After Ballinacourty won the senior football title in 1978 and two more in the following three years the hurling side of the club fell away, as players realised they had a much better chance of winning a football than a hurling title. Hurling has made a bit of a recovery in the club in recent years but, given their numbers, they would be much stronger if they focused primarily on hurling. However, as they are perennial contenders for the football title that is unlikely to happen.

The fact is that if Waterford’s GAA clubs across the boards gave priority to hurling, we would be able to field even stronger county teams than we do at present (when, at senior level, we are already among the top contenders). If we were to win a senior All-Ireland, it might tip the balance within the dual clubs.

At the moment, it is obvious that there is vastly more popular support for hurling than for football within the county. It is difficult for the county board to blatantly favour one over the other. However, the suggestion has been made here to look to supporters to invest serious money in the county teams, but with the proviso that their money would go to the game of their choice (if they wish to make a choice). Given that most people (I expect) would wish to invest the money in hurling, the county board could then justify this as being the democratic wish of the people.

However, how many supporters (and especially corporate supporters) are going to invest serious money in an organisation with inept administrative, competitive and coaching structures and stongly resistant to reforming these structures?

Pogue eile

Tramore84 wrote: »

Cummins was questioning the players attitude on the Sunday Game however I think that's unfair, the game was gone.

I would agree, if there was an attitude issue or a disgruntled camp etc. then they would have caved at 14-6 and a man down but from that point until when they got it back to 3 they fought like dogs

blueflame

Giveitfong wrote: »

In Cork, Clare and Galway football and hurling are largely played in different parts of the county and there is limited overlap between the two. That is also the case with Kerry. In Waterford there are numerous clubs trying to be good at both – Abbeyside/Ballinacourty, Fourmilewater/The Nire, Clonea/Rathgormack, Ring, Ardmore, Clashmore/Kinsalebeg, Brickey Rangers, Dunhill (at least in the past). I could include Dungarvan, but they seem to be putting more emphasis on hurling these days, and are more competitive at it as a result. In some clubs this creates internal tensions which does nobody any good.

It is very unusual to have a major sporting organisation which runs two different sports, with lots of players in some counties playing both simultaneously. This creates all sorts of organisational and performance difficulties. Players who play both sports seriously will rarely be as good at either as players who concentrate on one or the other. In my view this is seriously holding Waterford back compared with counties where there is limited overlap between the two games. Waterford’s top three or four football clubs are usually competitive in the Munster championship but the county team is never going to be seriously competitive when the top dual players invariably opt to play hurling for the county.

Abbeyside were very strong at hurling in the 1950s and the 1960s when Ballinacourty were a weak junior football club. After Ballinacourty won the senior football title in 1978 and two more in the following three years the hurling side of the club fell away, as players realised they had a much better chance of winning a football than a hurling title. Hurling has made a bit of a recovery in the club in recent years but, given their numbers, they would be much stronger if they focused primarily on hurling. However, as they are perennial contenders for the football title that is unlikely to happen.

The fact is that if Waterford’s GAA clubs across the boards gave priority to hurling, we would be able to field even stronger county teams than we do at present (when, at senior level, we are already among the top contenders). If we were to win a senior All-Ireland, it might tip the balance within the dual clubs.

At the moment, it is obvious that there is vastly more popular support for hurling than for football within the county. It is difficult for the county board to blatantly favour one over the other. However, the suggestion has been made here to look to supporters to invest serious money in the county teams, but with the proviso that their money would go to the game of their choice (if they wish to make a choice). Given that most people (I expect) would wish to invest the money in hurling, the county board could then justify this as being the democratic wish of the people.

However, how many supporters (and especially corporate supporters) are going to invest serious money in an organisation with inept administrative, competitive and coaching structures and stongly resistant to reforming these structures?

This is is the point i have been making - the county board need to change their approach if there is to be any form of real support forthcoming - people will only invest when they trust those they are investing in and when there is real accountability.

Stopitwillya

Deisefacts wrote: »

Your dead right. At least now people are talking about it and the more that talk about it the better. But, and here is where our biggest problem exist. The county secretary is readily and openly encouraging the east/west divide at minor hurling level last year and this year even though it was agreed a number of years ago that all underage championships from minor down were to be run on a county basis. In the “c” championship of 2018 was divided into east and west. This years “b”&”c” championships have been proposed to run on an east west basis by the secretary.

If this is true our county secretary should be sacked. When is his time up as he has been a disaster. Needs to spend less time on the bike and more time trying to do his job properly.

Deisefacts

Stopitwillya wrote: »

If this is true our county secretary should be sacked. When is his time up as he has been a disaster. Needs to spend less time on the bike and more time trying to do his job properly.

At last we are going to agree on something. He has a year left,but I’m not sure on this, he is after been granted a rolling contract after that.
As far as I know the county board can’t sack him. It’s croke park that have the only power to do this.

whiteandblue

Deisefacts wrote: »

At last we are going to agree on something. He has a year left,but I’m not sure on this, he is after been granted a rolling contract after that.
As far as I know the county board can’t sack him. It’s croke park that have the only power to do this.

They made re-interview after each term I think? Isn't our secretary also on a career break from our kit supplier?

Cornerstoner

Another problem seems to be the type of forward we are developing in this county. We've got no physically imposing forward at all. We're the only county in Munster too in this regard. The last player that any way resembled this was probably Devine. Our great team of the naughties had Dan and Seamus. You would have to ask how this has happened. Is it down to the development squads favoring more skillful players in the short term? I remember when I was coming through the ranks at underage the coaches would put the fast nippy lads in the forwards and make backs out of the bigger lads who might not quite be as quick. Look at Conlon for Clare. When he gets that ball in his hand its a scoring opportunity. None of our current forwards have the physically to beat a man one on one. Ball winners over fair weather hulers any day of the week

thesaturdayman

its very quiet.... or is it the eye of the hurricane?

Spatters

Im hearing that Paraic Fanning got his marching orders. Any truth?

KevIRL

Spatters wrote: »

Im hearing that Paraic Fanning got his marching orders. Any truth?

Not true

thesaturdayman

KevIRL wrote: »

Not true

my god! didnt hear that! hopefully not true

PTH2009

Spatters wrote: »

Im hearing that Paraic Fanning got his marching orders. Any truth?

A bad beating in the Limerick game and it could be bye bye but dont think he will be gone unless the players speak up. He will keep the job on the league performance

DeiseDawg

PTH2009 wrote: »

A bad beating in the Limerick game and it could be bye bye but dont think he will be gone unless the players speak up. He will keep the job on the league performance

You can't be serious in spreading that nonsense. Lose two championship games, one by only a point, and you want the manager gone
We've lost 14 won 4 championship games in the last 10 years or so - that would have been a lot of manager's gone, with that thinking

PTH2009

DeiseDawg wrote: »

You can't be serious in spreading that nonsense. Lose two championship games, one by only a point, and you want the manager gone
We've lost 14 won 4 championship games in the last 10 years or so - that would have been a lot of manager's gone, with that thinking

It's a few other things like our tame warm ups, been too slow on decisions. I don't think hes a great motivator or man manager from what I've seen

Possibly the management team could do with adding more experienced voices too it

Spatters

KevIRL wrote: »

Not true

Thank God for that. Think it would be a bad move both for morale within the camp and county but also from a PR side of things.
Blood pressure returning to normal 😅

Spatters

PTH2009 wrote: »

It's a few other things like our tame warm ups, been too slow on decisions. I don't think hes a great motivator or man manager from what I've seen

Possibly the management team could do with adding more experienced voices too it

Agree there with your last paragraph. Adding more experience is the way to go imo

Spatters

Im surprised the Saturday Man hasn’t anything to say. Normally full of wisdom???

Spatters

Is a win unrealistic v Limerick? Im struggling to believe we are that far away(eventhough results saying otherwise). Surely there is enough fight & self pride there to muster up a performance at home. These players are able to hurl, that much we know.
Is there hope there amongst supporters??

Deisefacts

whiteandblue wrote: »

They made re-interview after each term I think? Isn't our secretary also on a career break from our kit supplier?

If he is on a career break then there has to be a conflict of interest when it comes to negotiating contracts with the lines of o Neil’s and other manufacturers. Am I right in saying that? Does anyone know how much the board made from merchandise in 2018

Mulbert

PTH2009 wrote: »

DeiseDawg wrote: »

You can't be serious in spreading that nonsense. Lose two championship games, one by only a point, and you want the manager gone
We've lost 14 won 4 championship games in the last 10 years or so - that would have been a lot of manager's gone, with that thinking

It's a few other things like our tame warm ups, been too slow on decisions. I don't think hes a great motivator or man manager from what I've seen

Possibly the management team could do with adding more experienced voices too it

Which of the management team will be adding the more experienced voices?

How should they warm up PTH? Please impart some of your vast knowledge upon us all.

IanVW

Mulbert wrote: »

Which of the management team will be adding the more experienced voices?

How should they warm up PTH? Please impart some of your vast knowledge upon us all.

Please dont:D

PTH2009

Mulbert wrote: »

Which of the management team will be adding the more experienced voices?

How should they warm up PTH? Please impart some of your vast knowledge upon us all.

They need to do more physical exercises during the warm up. To me this is a different routine to the one under Derek McGrath and is not as demanding.

We could get someone for a mentor type role

enoughtaken

Mulbert wrote: »

Which of the management team will be adding the more experienced voices?

How should they warm up PTH? Please impart some of your vast knowledge upon us all.

Maybe a hot whiskey for a warm up

Jjjjjjjjbarry

PTH2009 wrote: »

Mulbert wrote: »

Which of the management team will be adding the more experienced voices?

How should they warm up PTH? Please impart some of your vast knowledge upon us all.

They need to do more physical exercises during the warm up. To me this is a different routine to the one under Derek McGrath and is not as demanding.

We could get someone for a mentor type role

In fairness, a trend throughout our entire league campaign and into the Munster championship has been slow starts and poor first half performances. A lack of energy or intensity in the warm up might be a valid point.

Christy Browne

In fairness to PTH, the most negative man in the world, he does have a point here.

Could tell straight away from the intensity of Tipp’s warm up compared to our casual and lackadaisical approach that we were in for a long game.

hardybuck

Tipp have had an Indian sign over Waterford for a few years now as well.

upthedeise16

Deisefacts wrote: »

If he is on a career break then there has to be a conflict of interest when it comes to negotiating contracts with the lines of o Neil’s and other manufacturers. Am I right in saying that? Does anyone know how much the board made from merchandise in 2018

It’s been said that Waterford GAA will never leave Azzurri as they are a Waterford based company and they want to support local and if they were to stop using Azzurri and they closed which is likely as Waterford are the only county using them, there would be a serious backlash within the county.
I on the other hand hate Azzurri and think their gear is poor quality and doesn’t compare to O’Neills and wished Waterford would change back!

Deisegodeo

The point about the warm up is valid in my book. I couldn't believe how poor our warm up looked, general lack of intensity about it, balls being fumbled and lack of first touch for a team fighting for its championship lives was shocking. I was watching the tipp warm up too, doing possession drills with hand passes and lads trying to win the ball back, you could see the intensity there, they were well up for it. Wasn't surprising when we had another slow start to the game then.

killbillvol2

Deisegodeo wrote: »

The point about the warm up is valid in my book. I couldn't believe how poor our warm up looked, general lack of intensity about it, balls being fumbled and lack of first touch for a team fighting for its championship lives was shocking. I was watching the tipp warm up too, doing possession drills with hand passes and lads trying to win the ball back, you could see the intensity there, they were well up for it. Wasn't surprising when we had another slow start to the game then.

Whatever about the intensity, it's a bit late to address the lack of a first touch 20 minutes before the ball is thrown in.