Pet dog went for me

D3V!L

Myself and my wife went to take our 2 and a half year old staffie / dachshund cross in from the back yard this evening.

When she opened the back door he pushed past her and went for me barking with the hackles up on his back.

I was just out of the shower wearing fresh clothes and after washing myself with my normal shower gel and deo. The only thing that was different is new slippers which he hasn't seen before.

My wife pushed him back out and then we repeated it and he did the same, still coming for me even though I told him to back off. He just ignored my commands and listened to her.

In the end I stripped off and he had no problem coming over when he sniffed me and decided I was safe. Does anyone have any idea what caused this ?? He's genuinely the most loyal dog I've ever been around and we have a very good relationship.

TomOnBoard

D3V!L wrote: »

Myself and my wife went to take our 2 and a half year old staffie / dachshund cross in from the back yard this evening.

When she opened the back door he pushed past her and went for me barking with the hackles up on his back.

I was just out of the shower wearing fresh clothes and after washing myself with my normal shower gel and deo. The only thing that was different is new slippers which he hasn't seen before.

My wife pushed him back out and then we repeated it and he did the same, still coming for me even though I told him to back off. He just ignored my commands and listened to her.

I the end I stripped off and he had no problem coming over when he sniffed me and decided I was safe. Does anyone have any idea what caused this ?? He's genuinely the most loyal dog I've ever been around and we have a very good relationship.

Something about your demeanour or clothing/footwear clearly frightened or threatened him.. Also something may have happened outside that had his stress hormone flowung.. Was he looking at anything in pwrticular, eg. the slippers?

D3V!L

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Something about your demeanour or clothing/footwear clearly frightened or threatened him.. Also something may have happened outside that had his stress hormone flowung.. Was he looking at anything in pwrticular, eg. the slippers?

We've just gone back over our CCTV and found him sitting in his kennel giving out and stamping around. Trying to figure out what happened up to that point.

I cleaned the kennel the day before and he watched me. So I think I may have just gotten a telling off.

cocker5

OP dogs don’t think like that they don’t remember what you did yesterday and then hold a grudge .. they just don’t operate like that .. they live in the here and now .. something has upset him .. today .. you need to retrace and think of anything that could have stressed him out or agitated him..

wexie

D3V!L wrote: »

I was just out of the shower wearing fresh clothes and after washing myself with my normal shower gel and deo. The only thing that was different is new slippers which he hasn't seen before.

Not trying to be funny but they're not novelty slippers or anything like that are they?

D3V!L wrote: »

In the end I stripped off and he had no problem coming over when he sniffed me and decided I was safe.

Have you tried him with whatever it was you were wearing before?
(without you in it)

BuboBubo

Was there any thunder in your area by any chance? My mutt is terrified of thunder and gun shy too. He gets scared, and cowers under the kitchen table.

VonVix

Something similar happened some months ago with my GSD and my housemate. My housemate usually has his room door open when he is home, if he's not home the door is shut, one rare day his door was open but he wasn't there (he was in the bathroom) my GSD was grumbling and circling in and out of the room, my housemate came out of the bathroom and my boy went charging up to him, barking his head off and hackles up and my housemate was like "what's wrong with you?!" my boy then nuzzled into him whimpering.

It was like he was annoyed at him for scaring him like that, for doing something out of a normal routine. He's never done it since, but the same scenario hasn't happened since either!

It's really an awkward one, OP. One of those situations where I'd have to be there seeing it with my own eyes to have an idea of what's going through your dog's head at that present moment!

fritzelly

Maybe the scent of the slippers (being new) was over powering the other smells that he is used to and just confused him

D3V!L

fritzelly wrote: »

Maybe the scent of the slippers (being new) was over powering the other smells that he is used to and just confused him

That's what we're putting it down to. He does have a thing about feet. I gave him a slipper to smell and lick and he seems happier now.

Not a pleasant experience and just finished off a rather odd evening over all.

Thanks for the input everyone.

D3V!L

Happened again this evening. This time he was quite aggressive and really gave me a fright.

Fann Linn

D3V!L wrote: »

Happened again this evening. This time he was quite aggressive and really gave me a fright.

Time to get rid before he attacks someone.

5rtytry56

Err on the side of caution and think of number 1 at this stage.
Contact the pound first on principle, before you do the coup de gras for the animal: put it down.

cocker5

D3V!L wrote: »

Happened again this evening. This time he was quite aggressive and really gave me a fright.

Have you contacted a dog trainer for help?

FurBabyMomma

I'd be straight to the vet to rule out any physiological reasons for a behaviour change. Maybe the heat/changing temps is starting to affect him, maybe he's sick.

TomOnBoard

I'm sorry but such unpredictability is simply not tenable in a dog whose natural abilities, uncontrolled, are so potentially dangerous. He has ceased to be a trusted pet and has become a liability. You need to decide what is the appropriate action to take, but suffice it to say the current situation cannot continue.

x Purple Pawprints x

FurBabyMomma wrote: »

I'd be straight to the vet to rule out any physiological reasons for a behaviour change. Maybe the heat/changing temps is starting to affect him, maybe he's sick.

I'll second this. He might be in pain or something.

Hitman3000

Your dog sees you as a potential threat but not your wife. Have you behaved differently or aggressively with him lately. Although tbh in your situation I would find it difficult to trust him. It's up to you but to me you are putting yourself in potential danger by keeping him.

I would definitely say vet should be the first port of call to rule out something else being wrong with him

D3V!L

Little update. We spent the evening discussing his behaviour and trying to find links to the last time he did this.

He spent the evening snoring his head off in the kitchen like he normally would and when his 9:30 toilet break came up he came to the living room door and gave me a funny look. Then gave me a warning bark !! He was looking at me like he didn't know me. I was expecting him to come over to apologise like he normally would when he's bold but not his time.

To answer the earlier question there has been nothing unusual recently. I don't hit or abuse him in any way and both of use dote on him.

Hitman3000

D3V!L wrote:

To answer the earlier question there has been nothing unusual recently. I don't hit or abuse him in any way and both of use dote on him.

You need to question his on going presence in your home. Sorry to be blunt.

cocker5

D3V!L wrote: »

Little update. We spent the evening discussing his behaviour and trying to find links to the last time he did this.

He spent the evening snoring his head off in the kitchen like he normally would and when his 9:30 toilet break came up he came to the living room door and gave me a funny look. Then gave me a warning bark !! He was looking at me like he didn't know me. I was expecting him to come over to apologise like he normally would when he's bold but not his time.

To answer the earlier question there has been nothing unusual recently. I don't hit or abuse him in any way and both of use dote on him.

OP - no one is suggesting you do anything to hurt the dog .. not at all.

BUT when there’s behavioral issues a lot of the time it may be medical related .. you need to rule it out.

Also u said he looked at you as if he didn’t recognize you.. there is something wrong here OP .. he is startled .. why? We don’t know and you don’t know..without ruling out a medical issue or seeking professional advice from a trainer you’ll never know ..

It’s the fairest thing for the dog .. seek professional advice and go from there.

Give him a chance .. get a professional

Nekarsulm

Are you still wearing the slippers?
You haven't shaved off a full beard, or shaved your head, I suppose?
And lastly, and excuse me for asking, but you haven't been aggressive towards the wife by any chance?

cocker5

cocker5 wrote: »

Also u said he looked at you as if he didn’t recognize you.. there is something wrong here OP .. he is startled .. why? We don’t know and you don’t know..without ruling out a medical issue or seeking professional advice from a trainer you’ll never know ..

It’s the fairest thing for the dog .. seek professional advice and go from there.

Give him a chance .. get a professional

Yes this stood out for me too.
please go to the vet with him

GreeBo

You havent shaved your head or beard or anything recently?

D3V!L

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Are you still wearing the slippers?
You haven't shaved off a full beard, or shaved your head, I suppose?
And lastly, and excuse me for asking, but you haven't been aggressive towards the wife by any chance?

Same slippers I've worn for the past few months.

I normally have a shaved head and beard so no changes.

I think your last comment is a bit personal don't you ??


All three of us usually have a little play before bedtime when he's done having a toilet. Seeing as it's warm out my wife asked me to try and see how he is now and maybe give him some ham (his favourite) to see if there's a change.

This is where it gets weird . He has good recall and when you say his name he looks at you regardless. Now when my wife said his name he looked at her and he completely blanked me. No response whatsoever.

cocker5

D3V!L wrote: »

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Are you still wearing the slippers?
You haven't shaved off a full beard, or shaved your head, I suppose?
And lastly, and excuse me for asking, but you haven't been aggressive towards the wife by any chance?

Same slippers I've worn for the past few months.

I normally have a shaved head and beard so no changes.

I think your last comment is a bit personal don't you ??


All three of us usually have a little play before bedtime when he's done having a toilet. Seeing as it's warm out my wife asked me to try and see how he is now and maybe give him some ham (his favourite) to see if there's a change.

This is where it gets weird . He has good recall and when you say his name he looks at you regardless. Now when my wife said his name he looked at her and he completely blanked me. No response whatsoever.

OP I’m not sure why you insist on ignoring good advice ..

your not a behavioralist .. more than likely no one on here is.

Stop thinking about what is causing it and seek a professional .. vet and dog trainer..

If it were my dog I’d do everything I could to be fair to the dog .. thinking about it yourself isn’t going to try and solve the issue. Bring him to the vet get full check up and seek a professional behavioralist .. only you then you may find the triggers / reason for this behavior .. not here

Another aspect not mentioned yet is dogs can get jealous of attention shown from say a husband to a wife (or vice versa). If he is very protective of your wife you kissing/hugging/ etc can be seen as an issue for the dog and he is trying to be alpha male and assert his own authority. This would fit what you have said as he is ok with your wife. Test this by kissing your wife with the dog there and guaging the dogs reaction. He may yawn/growl/bark and if so it probably is this. Many people have this issue google it. Be very careful until you have this issue solved (whatever the issue may be) and be aware of it even when you think you have it solved to prevent an attack.

Just to add as another poster mentioned it - a dog may think a normal argument is aggressive so it could even be he got spooked during a silly argument when you raised your voice or something rather than anything a human would see as aggressive.

ZX7R

A friend of mine lived with a girl and had a dog, after the dog was a year and half years old, the dog started to act the same as your dog after my mate had a shower, but not after every shower, turned out my mate was masterbating sometimes in the shower.the dog could smell some type of pheromone released when he did it.
I kid you not.

sadie1502

Weird isnt it. No man has been in your garden or around the house that could have harmed him. Have you taken him for a walk by your self play with him and his favourite toy. Do something he loves to do just to see his reaction. Definitely a trip to the vet to rule out medical issues. Very strange.

ligertigon

There is a change in the pack hierarchy.
And the OP has been demoted to omega.

JustAThought

D3V!L wrote: »

Happened again this evening. This time he was quite aggressive and really gave me a fright.

Very sorry to hear that.
Did you have the slippers on again?

DBB

Deleted User wrote: »

If he is very protective of your wife you kissing/hugging/ etc can be seen as an issue for the dog and he is trying to be alpha male and assert his own authority.

ligertigon wrote: »

There is a change in the pack hierarchy.
And the OP has been demoted to omega.

Of all the things that might be causing or driving this behaviour, the one thing it categorically isn't is the dog trying to assert himself as alpha, or pack leader. Lads... This stuff was debunked so, so long ago, and has been repeatedly debunked since.

OP, other than being able to tell you what this ISN'T, it's impossible to say exactly what's going on here without getting some expert advice, and soon. You need to talk to a qualified behaviourist (bearing in mind it's an unregulated industry, and although there are some first class behaviourists out there, there are a lot of charlatans too), and you need to get him comprehensively checked out by a vet with an interest in health/behaviour interactions. You're getting quite diverse opinions here, but this issue is just too serious for you to rely on what randomers on a forum are telling you... We've already had at least two posters telling you stuff that has been roundly abandoned by qualified behaviourists long since.
I can't remember if you said previously whereabouts you live, but if you do so, I'd hope someone here can recommend both behaviourist and vet to you.

D3V!L

DBB wrote: »

Of all the things that might be causing or driving this behaviour, the one thing it categorically isn't is the dog trying to assert himself as alpha, or pack leader. Lads... This stuff was debunked so, so long ago, and has been repeatedly debunked since.

OP, other than being able to tell you what this ISN'T, it's impossible to say exactly what's going on here without getting some expert advice, and soon. You need to talk to a qualified behaviourist (bearing in mind it's an unregulated industry, and although there are some first class behaviourists out there, there are a lot of charlatans too), and you need to get him comprehensively checked out by a vet with an interest in health/behaviour interactions. You're getting quite diverse opinions here, but this issue is just too serious for you to rely on what randomers on a forum are telling you... We've already had at least two posters telling you stuff that has been roundly abandoned by qualified behaviourists long since.
I can't remember if you said previously whereabouts you live, but if you do so, I'd hope someone here can recommend both behaviourist and vet to you.

Thanks ,. We're booking him in to see the vet this Thursday.

I have an evening alone with him tomorrow so it'll be interesting.

ligertigon

DBB wrote: »

Of all the things that might be causing or driving this behaviour, the one thing it categorically isn't is the dog trying to assert himself as alpha, or pack leader. Lads... This stuff was debunked so, so long ago, and has been repeatedly debunked since.

OP, other than being able to tell you what this ISN'T, it's impossible to say exactly what's going on here without getting some expert advice, and soon. You need to talk to a qualified behaviourist (bearing in mind it's an unregulated industry, and although there are some first class behaviourists out there, there are a lot of charlatans too), and you need to get him comprehensively checked out by a vet with an interest in health/behaviour interactions. You're getting quite diverse opinions here, but this issue is just too serious for you to rely on what randomers on a forum are telling you... We've already had at least two posters telling you stuff that has been roundly abandoned by qualified behaviourists long since.
I can't remember if you said previously whereabouts you live, but if you do so, I'd hope someone here can recommend both behaviourist and vet to you.

So the OP needs to get advice from a qualified behaviourist, In an unregulated industry?:P

DBB

DBB wrote: »

Of all the things that might be causing or driving this behaviour, the one thing it categorically isn't is the dog trying to assert himself as alpha, or pack leader. Lads... This stuff was debunked so, so long ago, and has been repeatedly debunked since.

OP, other than being able to tell you what this ISN'T, it's impossible to say exactly what's going on here without getting some expert advice, and soon. You need to talk to a qualified behaviourist (bearing in mind it's an unregulated industry, and although there are some first class behaviourists out there, there are a lot of charlatans too), and you need to get him comprehensively checked out by a vet with an interest in health/behaviour interactions. You're getting quite diverse opinions here, but this issue is just too serious for you to rely on what randomers on a forum are telling you... We've already had at least two posters telling you stuff that has been roundly abandoned by qualified behaviourists long since.
I can't remember if you said previously whereabouts you live, but if you do so, I'd hope someone here can recommend both behaviourist and vet to you.

I know this to be true due to first hand experience. Get over yourself and do not tell other people they are wrong when you do not know their backgrounds. The OP is looking for advice from anyone who can help not just from you.

DBB

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know this to be true due to first hand experience. Get over yourself and do not tell other people they are wrong when you do not know their backgrounds. The OP is looking for advice from anyone who can help not just from you.

No need to be rude.
I don't base any advice on first hand experience, I base it on best practice led by peer-reviewed research and the learned opinions of applied behavioural scientists.
I'm basing what I've said on the application of animal behavioural science, which has long since debunked the theory that dogs view themselves as pack leaders. It's not me "telling you you are wrong", it's 20+ years of peer-reviewed research.

ligertigon

I can see the future.

attention deficit hyperactivity disorder,
oppositional defiant disorder,
autism spectrum disorder,
anxiety disorder
depression
bipolar disorder
learning disorders
conduct disorders

Now if we could just tailor this for dogs and charge for diagnosis and treatment:)
But only qualified behaviourists could assess properly..lol

DBB

ligertigon wrote: »

So the OP needs to get advice from a qualified behaviourist, In an unregulated industry?:P

Yes? It is entirely possible to be qualified in a particular field, despite that field being unregulated! It doesn't just apply to dog training or behaviour.
Like many industries, valiant attempts have been made by industry professional bodies to certify dog trainers and dog behaviourists. There is no regulation that compels trainers or behaviourists to become qualified or professionally certified, but as with other industries, those that do get qualified and professionally certified by these bodies are showing the public that they've been independently assessed and have passed examinations.
So yes, it is entirely possible for the op to source a qualified and professionally certified trainer or behaviourist! They just need to be careful to avoid people who call themselves "behaviourists" despite having never undergone any form of test.

MayoSalmon

DBB wrote:

No need to be rude. I don't base any advice on first hand experience, I base it on best practice led by peer-reviewed research and the learned opinions of applied behavioural scientists. I'm basing what I've said on the application of animal behavioural science, which has long since debunked the theory that dogs view themselves as pack leaders. It's not me "telling you you are wrong", it's 20+ years of peer-reviewed research.

Ahhhh not this nonsense again...dogs live in wonderful co-operative families where each and all is treated equally is it. Give it over would ya.

OP, you need a dog trainer simply. I can't in a million years ever imagine my dogs ever even raising a hair in my direction nevermind barking or any other aggressive behaviour.

jaxxx

Deleted User wrote: »

I know this to be true due to first hand experience. Get over yourself and do not tell other people they are wrong when you do not know their backgrounds. The OP is looking for advice from anyone who can help not just from you.

You'd wanna take some of your own medicine that you dish out. Jesus.


Anyways as someone who's dealt with dogs for a long time, based on what I've read I don't think it's a case of the dog asserting itself as an alpha. Many seem to forget or not even accept that dogs are fiercely intelligent creatures. They don't go from peaceful to nuclear in an instant without reason, unless they were raised to be aggressive and violent since a pup. There's something underneath the surface going on, whether it's environmental or the dog's own health. And only a vet or even a dog behavioural expert will be able to suss it out, if they can.

s7ryf3925pivug

A postman had some unpleasant body language talking to my wife one day. Leaning over her type stuff, intimidated her. Ever since then my dog has had a thing with postmen.

If there isn’t anything like that behind it and it’s not a guarding thing, then respond assertively. Your wife getting him to leave you alone might undermine your own authority. I wouldn’t stand for a dog challenging me. Stare it down, tell it off and put it outside.

If it is a guarding thing that’s likely to escalate things though so be honest with yourself here.

Bells21

julie101 wrote:

I know this to be true due to first hand experience. Get over yourself and do not tell other people they are wrong when you do not know their backgrounds. The OP is looking for advice from anyone who can help not just from you.

Your very last sentence-from anyone who can help. Filling the OP full of crap from decades ago isn't helpful. The man who introduced this theory has since come out and said himself that it's not fact. It doesn't matter what your background is or isn't, a dog desiring to be alpha isn't factual.

DBB

ligertigon wrote: »

I can see the future.

attention deficit hyperactivity disorder,
oppositional defiant disorder,
autism spectrum disorder,
anxiety disorder
depression
bipolar disorder
learning disorders
conduct disorders

Now if we could just tailor this for dogs and charge for diagnosis and treatment:)
But only qualified behaviourists could assess properly..lol

Unlikely. Dogs don't suffer from these conditions. They can become depressed alright, but they don't suffer from the condition of depression.
One of the major subjects taught to behaviourists in order for them to gain qualification is to learn how to form diagnoses and prognoses based upon an objective, systematic, and thorough assessment of each animal. Just like a psychologist for humans, or in the case of clinical behaviourists, more akin to a human psychiatrist.
I'm not sure why you're belittling the concept of behaviourists being qualified? To acquire professional certification from the university-based professional bodies, behaviourists require a minimum of an honours degree in animal behaviour. Same level of academic achievement as a vet. Or engineer. Or lawyer. Or teacher.
Why don't you do some reading up on it before scoffing at the very thought!

ligertigon

I spent 4 years in Scotland doing an honors degree in Biological science.
Several modules were in animal behaviour and I passed tests.
One road for me was in animal testing (which we all love to raise money for), but I never did it..anyway

I would have far more respect for a trainer with years of proven record that didn't have a leaving cert. Than I would for a theorist with a fetac level 9 in whatever, that got it last year.

You are correct in your advice of this being serious, and a vet is first port of call.
Otherwise we are speculating.
But rest assured, a dog does acknowledge a human leader, and if more dogs are present, a dog leader too.

DBB

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Ahhhh not this nonsense again...dogs live in wonderful co-operative families where each and all is treated equally is it. Give it over would ya.

Why are you being rude?
And can you point out where I said anything that you've said in your quoted post?
Scoff away. I'll stick with what the science tells us. Just like my GP does when it comes to minding my health, or my vet does when minding my dogs' health

Hurling Rankings

This post has been deleted.

MuffinTop86

Hurling Rankings wrote: »

Jeeeeeesus.....

It’s a vaid question in fairness. The OP obviously doesn’t have to answer it here but thinking about what behaviours you’re displaying is natural in this situation.

DBB

ligertigon wrote: »

I spent 4 years in Scotland doing an honors degree in Biological science.
Several modules were in animal behaviour and I passed tests.
One road for me was in animal testing (which we all love to raise money for), but I never did it..anyway

I would have far more respect for a trainer with years of proven record that didn't have a leaving cert. Than I would for a theorist with a fetac level 9 in whatever, that got it last year.

You are correct in your advice of this being serious, and a vet is first port of call.
Otherwise we are speculating.
But rest assured, a dog does acknowledge a human leader, and if more dogs are present, a dog leader too.

Nobody can get certified as a behaviourist with a FETAC anything. It's an honours degree in animal behaviour, or nothing.
For the record, I also originally did a 4 year degree in a biological science which included modules in animal behaviour. It in no way prepared me or qualified me to become a animal behaviourist. I also did modules in immunology, genetics, pharmacology... And similarly, that doesn't qualify me to work as a medical practitioner.
It's why the professional certifying bodies for applied animal behavior specifically require an honours degree in animal behaviour at a minimum.
I'll also dispel this other criticism of preferring someone with experience over someone with a qualification, as the professional certifying bodies will not certify the most highly qualified people unless they can demonstrate enough experience to do the job to a sufficiently high standard. They require a combination of qualification and experience. Just like other professional certifying bodies do.
As for your last assertion about dogs recognising leaders... Like many other ideas around the whole (disproven) pack theory model, it is a misinterpretation of what you think you're looking at.
Again, not my opinion, but that of people who know far more on this subject than your or I.

mcginty28

<snip>

Mod note: Inappropriate comment removed. mcginty28 please be aware that this forum is PG13.

Nekarsulm

D3V!L wrote: »

I think your last comment is a bit personal don't you ??

Of course it's personal, but I'm not asking you to publish some kind of confession here.
It'll be personal if he takes a lump out of your leg, or a finger off.
Just puzzling why the dog has suddenly began reacting to you in this way.

He is a young dog, two and a half I think you said, so you'd hardly expect a brain tumour or similar to be affecting him. Or perhaps that or similar can affect young dogs? I don't know.

ligertigon

DBB wrote: »

Nobody can get certified as a behaviourist with a FETAC anything. It's an honours degree in animal behaviour, or nothing.
For the record, I also originally did a 4 year degree in a biological science which included modules in animal behaviour. It in no way prepared me or qualified me to become a animal behaviourist. I also did modules in immunology, genetics, pharmacology... And similarly, that doesn't qualify me to work as a medical practitioner.
It's why the professional certifying bodies for applied animal behavior specifically require an honours degree in animal behaviour at a minimum.
I'll also dispel this other criticism of preferring someone with experience over someone with a qualification, as the professional certifying bodies will not certify the most highly qualified people unless they can demonstrate enough experience to do the job to a sufficiently high standard. They require a combination of qualification and experience. Just like other professional certifying bodies do.
As for your last assertion about dogs recognising leaders... Like many other ideas around the whole (disproven) pack theory model, it is a misinterpretation of what you think you're looking at.
Again, not my opinion, but that of people who know far more on this subject than your or I.

Certifying bodies are self serving. They are simply protectionist of their members as a priority.

My previous assertion about dogs acknowledging a human leader is fact. This is nothing to do with pack mentality. You are mixing up two separate concepts.
Social hierarchy among dogs (which is distinct from pack mentality),
and
dogs living with other animals (us), that don't smell like dogs, look like dogs, behave like dogs, so they know we are different. But still note one human individual above the others, usually one that walks them and more importantly feeds them.