Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

eastwest

End of Q4.

I hear they have it but are kicking it around to make it more politically acceptable. Sinn Fein has pretty much promised railways to every village, and the Greens want to have farmers going out by train to round up the vegan cattle, so telling them straight that the wrc was laughed out of court won't be easy.

On top of that, the NI transport minister (a SF MLA) has asked for a railway from Derry to Portadown, which would effectively connect Dublin to Derry, taking out the Provo promise to extend the wrc to Derry.

It will be interesting to see what form of f**k off words yo the train lobby will be used this time. Maybe the promise of another review, or a review of this review and the last half dozen reviews to see if the theme of them all was mistaken.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962219#Comment_119962219

To paraphrase a character on Fr. Ted - "Is there anything to be said for another review?"

Or, the expression concerning a previous Minister for Transport, Mary O'Rourke, about whom it was said that she was always "one more review away from making a decision".

The folks in Sligo are not stopping. Tendering has opened for detailed design and planning application prep

https://www.oceanfm.ie/2022/12/03/eu-tendering-process-commences-for-sligo-greenway

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963875#Comment_119963875

Found the tender for engineering consultancy services here, I presume that's what's being referred to.

westtip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119960535#Comment_119960535

Hello folks not been in this happy nut house for awhile, so since I've been gone: Sligo greenway is all but going to tender, and TEN-T has once again said there will be no WRC and MCC are still pouring money into the slush fund velorail project, Galway coco and MCC have published new county plans that blatantly ignored thousands of submissions asking for a greenway and what else oh yes, someone is still promising to drain the shannon, nothing new then!

end of the road

drain the shannon? is that the nonsense of pumping the water to dublin? thought that was discounted.

Poor auld Lisa is disappointed a line with a poor alignment, rusty tracks, void of regular passenger services for nearly 50 years, going to a lowly populated area isn't part of the EU wide core transportation network

https://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/63086-fianna-fail-senator-expresses-her-disappointment-of-the-continued-exclusion-of-the-western-rail-corridor-from-ten-t-funding

Perhaps someone should explain it to her

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967969#Comment_119967969

It does surprise me the WRC isn't on the agenda, especially considering the failure of the GCRR. Galway would benefit from a Strategic Rail Review similar to Limerick. Or has this been done?

A train line, supplemented by P&R and local buses, could be a big success if implemented correctly. The N17, N83 and N63 corridors have a large rural population despite having few large towns.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119968201#Comment_119968201

There is the national strategic rail review due out before Xmas.

Did you mean a transportation strategy? There is no Limerick strategic rail review afaik

There are commuter rail proposals for Galway, but it'll be 10-15 years before we see it

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119968201#Comment_119968201

There have been multiple reports on the possibility of reopening the WRC north of Athenry and all have found it not to be worth the cost. We don't need more reports to tell us it's not viable, we need to move on to what is viable.

serfboard

I wonder what effect the death of Fr. MacGréil will have on West On Track - if that organisation is still going?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120161829#Comment_120161829

west on track is indeed still going.

he's death is a huge and sad loss but i am in no doubt the campaign will continue as i am sure he would have wanted.

CatInABox

Western Rail Corridor got a shout out from the Transport Minister the other day. Eamon Ryan put out a piece in the Irish Times to coincide with the Dublin transport plan, which included this paragraph:

We have to progress all this rail infrastructure in a phased way, because at the same time we will be investing in our other cities and regions, building new metropolitan rail services in Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford, transforming rail freight to and from our deep-water ports, developing a new Western Rail Corridor that connects to all those ports and exploring new rail lines to the northwest, which has been neglected for years.

You can see the rest here:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/01/24/there-is-no-reason-dublin-cannot-be-like-copenhagen-or-amsterdam-for-cycling/

There's a fair amount of stuff in there that Ryan presents as a fait accompli when it's not, like his talk of all the evidence pointing to a Metrolink extension to Tallaght, while the actual Transport plan itself says that it's going to look at all possible routes, so I'd take everything on there with a pinch of salt.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162423#Comment_120162423

I wouldn't take any of it as anything more than hot air. This is the same minister that nix'd the possibility of a direct rail connection between Cork and Limerick as part of preparatory works on the Cork-Limerick motorway.

CatInABox

A small hint of what's in the All Ireland Rail Review, with talk of reopening the line from Athenry to Claremorris, but only for freight. Passengers may follow, "if successful".

https://www.thejournal.ie/rail-review-network-5991337-Feb2023/

Personally speaking, I do think that all these lines should eventually be reopened, but this half measure is the wrong option, all but guaranteeing the same kind of controversy that has plagued the WRC to date. How do you measure the success of the line? Does it need to turn a profit? Is it the tonnage moved? Are we going to subsidise it, and for how long? Where is the freight going to be coming from?

All the same kind of questions that have been asked about the WRC, just with freight instead of passenger numbers.

All a bit academic anyway, I can't see this project going ahead in the next 20 to 30 years. There's so many other projects that are ahead of this in the pipeline, that are both more necessary and have greater benefits.

FrankLeeSpeaking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120161871#Comment_120161871

Apart from friends and family his passing is a huge loss how? I am not disrespecting the man but how was he a great loss to rail transport on this island?

He probably did more to hold back the rail system by creating a kind of Fr Ted image of it in many people's minds. To him reopening railways was about charity and not transport. He had an antiquated view of the project that it would 'create jobs' and stop people leaving the West. As if a few trains a day would prevent young people from expanding their horizons and experience the wider world. Never once did he make an argument for the line beyond some nonsense of social justice or the Marian shrine at Knock. Outside a few parishes in the West, I can assure that no one took the sight of a priest making demands of taxpayers seriously. West on Track also demanded the mickey mouse stations on the Ennis to Athenry section being reopened and wanted all the other closed mickey mouse stations up to Sligo reopened. He even stated once that the DART was a waste of money as it only served Seagulls on one side of it.

Even supported that loon behind the City of the Sacred Heart buffoonery.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223585#Comment_120223585

I think this needs to be challenged. You may say you are not disrespecting the man but comparing him to Fr Ted suggests otherwise. It was due to a small number of people like him that pressure was applied in the late 1970s to prevent the lifting of the rails following closure of the lines. If this had happened it is unlikely that the route would have been protected from encroachment and the cost of reopening now would be astronomical and mired in legal wrangles. He was clearly a man of intellect having published numerous respected academic papers and books. Not to mention the work he did in promoting the irish language and campagning for social justice and marginalised communities. He was also heavily involved in decriminalisation of homosexuality as far back as the early 80s and he spent time living with travelling communities to gain an understanding of their challenges. I dont think anyone could say that is the legacy a man with antiquated views.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222872#Comment_120222872

I agree that passengers should be included but it seems that freight is the biggest economic argument for opening the line. Ballina's freight yard is actually the busiest in the country outside Dublin. If it opened for freight then I'd hope that passenger travel would surely follow soon after? Given the lack of planning obstacles and relative value for money compared to alternative road projects there should be no obvious reasons for not progressing the project. Political decisions would be only impediment at this stage given the importance of such projects in addressing climate change and facilitating decarbonisation.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223585#Comment_120223585

he was a very vocal operator as part of the campaign and understood the west to an absolute t, he never stated trains would stop people leaving, however he recognised transport and trains included are a part of creating a better environement for people to live in and he has been shown to be correct on that score.

he would only have created a father ted immage of the railway in the minds of those who were and still are against it's existence and can't be blamed for holding anything railway related back since the politicians weren't really that interested in rail bar just keeping it going for decades.

they are the only ones to blame for that backward ideology for which they are being forced kicking and screaming to modernise but not fast enough.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224262#Comment_120224262

There is no logical argument, based on facts and data, for freight on that line. Multiple reports have said the same thing over and over

There is if you base your argument on emotion only

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224451#Comment_120224451

I would not base my opinion on a piece of infrastructure on emotion only. If you say there is no logical argument you are discounting the view of people of such Prof John Bradly, formerly of the ESRI, who has dismantled in detail the most recent EY report on the viability of the railway and has produced a strong counter argument for reinstatement of the line. A government commisioned report can be skewed to be either in favour of or in opposition to a proposal, depending on what the government wishes the outcome of the report to be. If you rely on the EY report to support your argument you need to review it again to see its multiple shortcomings.

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224262#Comment_120224262

Freight isn't even an argument but an acceptable enough to keep it on the table and everyone is happy.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224601#Comment_120224601

Im not sure what you are saying there. Do you mean its preferable not to open railways and continue to carry freight on roads and just ignore potential climate benefits?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224585#Comment_120224585

Jesus wept, if you're sole source against multiple reports is coming direct from WoT you're in real trouble

His costings were shown to be utter nonsense at the time. Same as all other WoT costings. They were out by nearly 50% on phase 1 for gods sake.

WoT have a vested interest and extreme bias which is why none of their "reports" are taken seriously.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224701#Comment_120224701

Shown by who? Can you point me to the analysis that says his costing were utter nonsense?. If you can I will be happy to consider it.

Are you aware of the errors in the EY report and if so do you still find it credible?

And no its not my sole source. Eamon Ryan has predicted that the impending all ireland review will recommend opening the western line. If thats the case will you regard that report as rubbish too?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224745#Comment_120224745

This thread has all the sources you'll need. By all means read back through it. I can't be arsed doing another tit-for-tat with the latest WoT supporter, its been done to death over the last decade. Its like arguing with anti-vaxxers

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for rail lines reopening and rail services expanding. I don't own a car, rail is typically how I travel longer distances.

That being said, phase 1 is an utterly rubbish service because WoT only pushed for reusing the old alignment which meant it was always going to be and always will be, a crap service. It's only got the demand it has because of the huge subvention which is covering so much of the costs. Last I heard it was around 70eur per passenger. Thats bonkers!

A freight service which relies on taking demand from a line with excess capacity, is not a logical argument for running freight.

I'm all for smart, high impact investment in rail, especially in the west. WRC is not that, it never has been and never will be.

Smart rail investment in the west means full double tracking of the Galway-Dublin line along its full length, high frequency commuter rail, commuter stations opened at Roscam & Renmore, huge expansion of P&R facilities at Oranmore, Athenry etc etc etc

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224897#Comment_120224897

Thank you setting out your reasoning. As I said I am happy to review my opinion at any stage. If the capacity is a big issue then it does seem to undermine the idea of adding to the line as you say.

However regardless of what may be said about Bradleys figures the issues remain as to why the latest Government commissioned report was so full of errors and contradictory figures. It's the last official report we have to go on and it shouldn't be so easy to pick holes in it, given its importance and the time and cost that went into it.

Hopefully whatever is recommended in the AI review is credible and can withstand scrutiny. Otherwise it will just be another waste of everyones time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120225056#Comment_120225056

Won't really matter. It'll be a fudge for the WRC because it suits vested interests to keep dangling that carrot while never actually developing anything.

The only that thing will happen north of Athenry within the next 30 years, is more rust on the rails,

mayo.mick

https://youtu.be/91XHC3P3tpU

Round and round and round we go.......

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120224262#Comment_120224262

How many freight yards are there?

Also what are the alternative road projects to be cancelled, Knock to Collooney?