Unhappily Married Man Dropping Bombs?

LegacyUser

My friend is a married man. We meet up every so often and just chat. I have never had any romantic feelings towards him and as far as I know nor he I. I am a lesbian after all, so I'm not interested.

When we've met in the past, he mostly stayed well clear of his personal life at home. But the last few times we have spoken he has dropped some major warning signs that have left me with cause for concern.

A few weeks ago I went over for a visit and he and I decided to go for a walk in the park seeing as it was such a lovely evening. But even before leaving for our walk we sat out his back chatting while his wife chose to stay in the living room. He related to me that she would rather stay in the living room glued to her smartphone than try be social. He made some comment in passing about finding it annoying. But hey none of my business, as all my married friends seem to have their own little gripes about their respective spouses (male or female).

During our walk, he began to open up about some other issues which made me a little uncomfortable. He told me that his wife had become jealous of his "messages" to another friend (whom apparently is not me, but a woman he once had been involved with before marriage. Somebody who he considers a close friend). And maybe there is another person (I don't know for sure there isn't) but my initial thought was this other woman his wife had become jealous of was me.



After not seeing him again for a few weeks, I tried to put it out of mind. Not my problem after all. Then yesterday happened. We finally met for lunch again, at a popular cafe in town, just to catch up. We talked about all the usual stuff. Even the referendum came up a few times. But despite that it all seemed quite easygoing between us. Just two buds laughing and chatting. Then out of nowhere he tells me his wife doesn't like him meeting me here as she likes going here too. That she gets insanely jealous of not just our meeting in this particular restaurant but of almost everything that doesn't involve her. For the conversation we were just having, this revelation comes out of nowhere. It was like he was gauging my reaction and I didn't have a ready reply. I began to feel like I was doing something wrong, even though I always considered my friendship with this man as just that: a friendship. But here I am being made to feel like this is something I should be worrying about.

I begin an internal monologue as I finish my main: Okay. So should I leave? Why would you suddenly start telling me these things? What do you expect me to say? Do you and your wife even trust each other?

Without really replying to the latest disclosure I just sip my drink, hoping the subject changes to something far more trivial.

Does anybody have any thoughts on what kind of game this guy is playing?

Am I being manipulated here?

robarmstrong

Does his wife know you're a lesbian?

You're doing nothing wrong tbh, it sounds like there's something going on in their marriage that you're only hearing one side of.

Bit hairy to be playing games so he is if that's the case, not sure how manipulation comes into it as it's unclear what you're being manipulated into doing/feeling.

It's a double edged sword unfortunately, obviously you seem to be a good friend but at the end of the day you're only getting his side of things which may or may not be what's going on. Are you acquainted with his wife? Can you (not saying you should go ahead and do this obviously) speak to her without her husband around, go for coffee etc with her?

wiggle16

Can you not just ask him straight out what he means and why he is telling you these things? If you are close friends, you should be straightforward with each other.

No one's guess here is going to be as good as yours, and no guess of yours is going to explain the situation better than an explanation from him.

Whether he is trying to open up about problems in his marriage, or is trying it on with you, can you not just ask him? Clearly he wants it off his chest!

Big Bag of Chips

Friends sometimes bitch to each other about their partners. Even though you say there has never been anything romantic between you, you seem to be implying that him talking to you is more than just a friend bitching about his relationship.

If that is the case then you have no reason to be "stuck in the middle". Your only input to this should be to advise him to speak to her, to try communicate with each other. It seems like he knows what her problems are (him messaging/contacting other women) yet he seems happy enough to continue and enough to make you feel like his intentions aren't entirely innocent. If he continues to make you uncomfortable with his talk, then you tell him so and tell him you'd prefer to not be put in that position by him.

I think there's a bit of game playing going on. And you get the feeling you are being used somehow. That's not a nice feeling, and it's not how friends treat each other. Advise him to speak to his wife. If she's becoming distant from him it could be because he seems more interested in texting/meeting up with other women. If he'd rather pay attention to other women more than trying to work through problems with his wife, then that's his business. But you don't have to involve yourself.

leggo

Just to throw a guess out there, but perhaps she feels he's emotionally cheating on her a bit with you. In that you'd have the kind of confidante relationship that maybe they don't and she feels they should. This isn't on you, you've done nothing, just trying to speculate as to how she could be jealous while (presumably) knowing you're a lesbian and not interested. I know of lads who've got jealous of their girlfriend's female friends and so on because of similar issues.

BettePorter

I don't get why your conversation ended there tho without you reacting to it ? I'm gay and pretty much all my friends are straight /married ....and if my friend whilst on a lunch date said ....oh gerry doesn't like me meeting you here cause it's our place ....In fact he doesn't like me arranging things that don't involve him at all'..... that would be my cue to say .....why? Sure we're just friends.

I wouldn't feel manipulated by my friend. She's just telling me what her hub is saying. So ur friends wife has told him it bothers her that you're seeing her hub .

Why do u think he's trying to manipulate you ?

LegacyUser

He might be looking for your reassurance? Like, both as a friend but also to get a female perspective on what his wife has been saying. He might be worried that his wife is right and he is being out of order by meeting with you publicly.

I’d agree with the others here that it doesn’t sound like it’s your fault at all. And your other questions, here’s some answers from a male perspective:

-Okay.

He mightn’t realize just how cringe what he said was.

-So should I leave?

I doubt that’s what he wanted because it sounds more like he opened up to you about an issue he’s worrying about, rather than berating you for “leading him astray”.

-Why would you suddenly start telling me these things?

We try our best but communication (even for guys who work in comms!) is not easy for an awful lot of guys.

-What do you expect me to say?

I can’t imagine but at a guess something like “it’s ok we’re not doing anything wrong!”

-Do you and your wife even trust each other?

That’s the kind of leap that very few guys instinctively make between comments and what’s behind it. By and large, we’re blunt, say what we mean and don’t often do subtlety. So what he’s saying to you, it might not be coming from a place of “MY WIFE SAID THIS TO ME AND IT MAKES ME FEEL BAD” but rather “SOMEBODY SAID THIS TO ME AND IT MAKES ME FEEL BAD”. Take out the wife from his comment and imagine he said “Joe Bloggs from down the road says it’s awkward that we met here because I eat here with my wife.” You’d feel differently about that, right? You’d laugh and joke with him about it and about how little it matters to either if he that anybody might gossip about ye sharing a meal and a few laughs together.

(Obv all of the above is super subjective so don’t go tarring every single individual guy you meet with everything I wrote above!)

The guys married, and knows you’re not into guys, and you’ve been mates for a while. He’d hardly be manipulating you or even hitting you up after however long you’ve both been friends for a fling without making any other, more flirty comments. Has he dropped you massive complements or anything? Asked you to hang out more? If not, he could be just looking for reassurance from a female perspective that his wife is wrong to make him feel awkward about hanging out with you.

Cringe and all as it may be, if the guy is looking for a female perspective to tell him “it’s ok to hang out with your female friend”, one of his guy friends isn’t going to cut the mustard and if he does only have two female friends that he’d chat to, he might just want to hear a female perspective here. His wife is the female perspective that he hears most. But, in this situation, she’s implying that he’s doing something wrong by meeting with you so often, and even meeting you in that restaurant. When he dropped that comment he might have just wanted to hear you say something like, “nope, there’s nothing weird about us having lunch here and who cares if the staff here or anyone else gossips about us, we know there’s nothing to back that up.”

If that’s what he’s worrying about, he might not have even realised how awkward he’d make you feel by hinting at that.

DroppingBombs

Hi

OP here. Signed up to reply faster.

robarmstrong wrote: »

Does his wife know you're a lesbian?

You're doing nothing wrong tbh, it sounds like there's something going on in their marriage that you're only hearing one side of.

Yes, as far as I know she is aware. Though I have rarely had a conversation with her as I know the guy far better. The few occasions we have met, she doesn't seem all that approachable at the best of times. And I don't know if she is just introverted or if it's something else.

wiggle16 wrote: »

Can you not just ask him straight out what he means and why he is telling you these things?

Whether he is trying to open up about problems in his marriage, or is trying it on with you, can you not just ask him? Clearly he wants it off his chest!

Honestly? I am afraid if I ask he'll tell me. And there are only two possibilities as far as I see it: 1) he wants to test the waters for an affair 2) he really just wants to vent

And if it's the latter, If he genuinely wants to open up about his marital problems, I am really not interested in hearing them. I would consider this a form of emotional betrayal. And even though I am not close to the wife I would feel awful knowing all their secrets.

The whole thing has made me reconsider our 3 year long friendship.

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I think there's a bit of game playing going on. And you get the feeling you are being used somehow. That's not a nice feeling, and it's not how friends treat each other. Advise him to speak to his wife. If she's becoming distant from him it could be because he seems more interested in texting/meeting up with other women. If he'd rather pay attention to other women more than trying to work through problems with his wife, then that's his business. But you don't have to involve yourself.

Yes, it certainly felt like he was moving pieces on a board. I felt like he was trying to turn me against his wife for whatever reason I don't know. I have little to no interaction with her already, so I find it odd. As for other women, I am not around him all the time. I only have his word on it.

I don't want to become involved and really starting to feel annoyed the more I think of it. I think there is a line you shouldn't cross when talking to friends about your spouse and he not only crossed it, he cleared by a good country mile.

leggo wrote: »

Just to throw a guess out there, but perhaps she feels he's emotionally cheating on her a bit with you. In that you'd have the kind of confidante relationship that maybe they don't and she feels they should. This isn't on you, you've done nothing, just trying to speculate as to how she could be jealous while (presumably) knowing you're a lesbian and not interested. I know of lads who've got jealous of their girlfriend's female friends and so on because of similar issues.

Before yesterday I would have never thought of our meet ups as emotional cheating, but that has changed. It was so sudden I was rather in shock.

BettePorter wrote: »

Why do u think he's trying to manipulate you ?

It's just the way he seemed to be playing up the angle of his wife's jealousy. Like he was waiting to see if I would feel angered or worried or something by it. I was more confused than anything by it all. Reflecting on it later and it was almost as if he wanted me to say something properly nasty about her.

wiggle16

DroppingBombs wrote: »

Hi
Honestly? I am afraid if I ask he'll tell me. And there are only two possibilities as far as I see it: 1) he wants to test the waters for an affair 2) he really just wants to vent

And if it's the latter, If he genuinely wants to open up about his marital problems, I am really not interested in hearing them. I would consider this a form of emotional betrayal. And even though I am not close to the wife I would feel awful knowing all their secrets.

The whole thing has made me reconsider our 3 year long friendship.

It is far more likely that he really wants to vent (though I know there are a lot of men out there who don't really get that they don't have a chance in Hell with a gay woman) and since you are friends, he wants to confide in you. He might want a female perspective as well, if he doesn't have any other female friends.

I wouldn't consider that emotional betrayal, at all. Virtually everyone has to let off steam about their partners every now and again to a friend. I'm the unwilling agony aunt for my circle of friends, tbh. And I'd be very surprised if anyone I've ever been with hadn't talked about me to a friend at some stage, and I wouldn't hold it against them. It's just human nature and a form of problem solving - and therefore it is usually beneficial to a relationship, since one partner can get an outside perspective on a problem they're having with the other partner. Or just get it off their chest.

Obviously you don't have to listen to his potential woes and I'm not trying to convince you to either, if you're not comfortable with it then you're not comfortable with it. But the only way to find out what he's on about is to ask him, we're all just speculating here really.

Whether or not you ask him or if he just tells you unprompted, and you don't want to know, all you have to say is "I really don't have any advice to give to you/you should talk to your wife if you feel that way" etc. What he does with that response is his decision and he's created this situation. If it were me I wouldn't have a problem listening to it but obviously that's not the dynamic of your friendship.

Why is it making you reconsider your friendship? You sound fairly close if you go for walks like? And you don't yet know what he's on about. You should try to figure out what he's getting at before reconsidering whether you want to be friends or not. You could be panicking over nothing!

leggo

DroppingBombs wrote: »

Before yesterday I would have never thought of our meet ups as emotional cheating, but that has changed. It was so sudden I was rather in shock.

Emotional cheating often is more about what he's not giving his wife than what he is giving to someone else. So if he had a healthy relationship with her, then your friendship wouldn't reflect badly on that because why would it? So, again, there's probably nothing wrong with the friendship as a whole and definitely nothing wrong with what you're doing...but he's probably leaning on you in a way he should be leaning on his wife, hence the jealousy.

Big Bag of Chips

Best thing you can do is talk to him. If you are good friends then that's the obvious thing to do. Something about the way he spoke to you the other day got your gut reaction going. There was something different. So unless you ask him and confront that, then you're just dancing around, avoiding a conversation and the friendship itself is changed.

He may just be having a vent. You might be his safe person to have a moan to. But if you feel that there's more to it, then your choices are talk to him, or avoid him.

ConnyMcDavid

What is wrong with confiding in friends? At least he is talking about it and letting these things out in the open so everyone knows where they stand.

While I would have a problem with why he didn't suggest another place to meet since his wife let him know her issue.

But I think you should tell him you are uncomfortable so as to not let him think he has this good friend who will listen to him.

suicide_circus

Maybe his wife thinks you're a "lesbian". if she's a jealous person she might think you're a snake trying the long game of stealing her man. And maybe she can tell that her husband fancies you, men can fancy lesbians, it's not a barrier.
You're also only hearing one side. Maybe he's the one playing the long game to turn you.

tara73

it's hard to tell as we don't know anything about this guy nor his wife.

but from reading your OP, I think he just wants to vent to a good friend. I also would say he has issues in his marriage. And as others pointed out, you are only hearing his side of the story.

So my guess also is, his wife feels jealous because she thinks he's emotional cheating, meeting up with you and she doesn't know what kind of things you are talking about.

orthsquel

I can understand a little your discomfort in being told negative things about someone you barely know, as if intended to colour your judgement of them without knowing them. You, after all, have no basis of engagement or interaction with them to know what they're actually like and whether to take what your friend is saying at face value or not, or whether they are painting a specific picture of them that is untrue for other reasons. Perhaps the issue is the level of trust you have in your friend?

On the other side he could be facing a genuine difficulty in his marriage with his wife's jealously; he may be looking for a soundboard and hopes that you might be that. You don't have to be, and if you're not comfortable with knowing that information about his personal life, being a sound board for his marital problems, then it is best to let him know

lawred2

Your responses to him opening up to you are a bit weird... Is he a friend or a loose acquaintance? Because a friend would expect more than you going silent.

You seem to not even respond to him based on what you've posted.

Do you even try to explore what he's talking about?

I could understand if they were nothing more than an acquaintance.

tara73

lawred2 wrote: »

Your responses to him opening up to you are a bit weird... Is he a friend or a loose acquaintance? Because a friend would expect more than you going silent.

You seem to not even respond to him based on what you've posted.

Do you even try to explore what he's talking about?

I could understand if they were nothing more than an acquaintance.

I actually have to agree with this.

Also, did I get it right you think he's looking for an affair with you? I mean, he knows you're lesbian, so what makes you think he's looking for an affair? sorry, but it absolutely makes no sense.

DroppingBombs

Just to respond to everyone here saying that as his friend I should let him vent about his wife. Well honestly I think it's a crappy thing to do. Bitching about your spouse to a friend is not cool and I don't care what anyone says. It's something I have never and will never do while in a serious relationship. If he had just been dating this girl for a bit and they hadn't become serious yet I would probably be more inclined to listen. But this is the mother of his kids. And I feel entirely uncomfortable with it. Next time I meet him I will say as much I have decided.

Big Bag of Chips

My friend was having very real problems with her husband. She spoke to me about them. There were days she was in tears wondering how she'd go on.

She eventually left him and is much better off. But the stuff she had to put up with before leaving was awful, and I'd hate her to feel she had nobody to turn to for advice.

Good friends discuss lots of private things. Acquaintances not so much. So if he's a good friend, it's not that unusual he'd confide in you. If he's just a passing acquaintance then that's not really fair to his wife. And maybe what he perceives as her problems and her jealousy are well founded. Maybe she has every right to have problems with him and his behaviour.

tara73

DroppingBombs wrote: »

Just to respond to everyone here saying that as his friend I should let him vent about his wife. Well honestly I think it's a crappy thing to do. Bitching about your spouse to a friend is not cool and I don't care what anyone says. It's something I have never and will never do while in a serious relationship. If he had just been dating this girl for a bit and they hadn't become serious yet I would probably be more inclined to listen. But this is the mother of his kids. And I feel entirely uncomfortable with it. Next time I meet him I will say as much I have decided.

I think you have a point here and it's morally very correct you don't want to bitch about his wife. But the question is, as poster above also pointed out: is he just bitching or is he in trouble and need somebody to talk to? with good friends, as you seem to be, it should be possible to talk about problms you have in your life, which include, with married people, very often marriage problems.

but sure, if you don't feel comfortable discussing it or even hearing it, it's the best thing you let him know.

DroppingBombs

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

My friend was having very real problems with her husband. She spoke to me about them. There were days she was in tears wondering how she'd go on.

She eventually left him and is much better off. But the stuff she had to put up with before leaving was awful, and I'd hate her to feel she had nobody to turn to for advice.

Good friends discuss lots of private things. Acquaintances not so much. So if he's a good friend, it's not that unusual he'd confide in you. If he's just a passing acquaintance then that's not really fair to his wife. And maybe what he perceives as her problems and her jealousy are well founded. Maybe she has every right to have problems with him and his behaviour.

My biggest issue is the fact he somehow made me feel like an accomplice in something. I didn't need to know his wife's feelings of jealousy towards me and him meeting for lunch.

I have suspected he was not entirely happy for a while now. But I am not about to start taking sides in a marriage on the rocks.

DroppingBombs

tara73 wrote: »

I think you have a point here and it's morally very correct you don't want to bitch about his wife. But the question is, as poster above also pointed out: is he just bitching or is he in trouble and need somebody to talk to? with good friends, as you seem to be, it should be possible to talk about problms you have in your life, which include, with married people, very often marriage problems.

but sure, if you don't feel comfortable discussing it or even hearing it, it's the best thing you let him know.

His comments come across as someone who is seriously fed up with his partner. Some of his comments crossed the line. I consider myself a friend but him being a unhappily married man and me a woman (gay or otherwise) I am now a little wary about what I thought was a friendship. I find myself in a position where I feel the wife views me with suspicion (at least according to him) and he seems to be reacting a little odd about it to say the least. Like I should find it amusing or exciting or something.

BettePorter

It depends really what his end game is. Do u think his statements re the wife's jealousy were leading in the sense he was allowing for you to say .....'actually John ...sHe has reason to get jealous ...I've always wanted us to be more than friends '?

Or was he simply venting as I think friends should be allowed do. You are his friend after all. ..not both his and hers. So unless he starts using u as an alibi if he started seeing someone else on the side ... I don't really see why you would have an issue with him venting once you'd clarified that he'd put her right about you and he just being friends and no more .

leggo

I guess you're reaching your limits with the friendship, and that's okay. I've got people I know, in work and so on, who have messy personal lives who I'd listen to if they needed to vent and talk through stuff with them but keep a distance from said personal life because I don't want to get dragged into any ****show. Then I've got other mates who I'd go to the ends of the earth to help if needed, there's no max limit they could ask of me because I know they'd do the same if I needed it.

You've reached your wall here by the sound of things. I'm a big believer in not writing people off entirely (because you can never have too many friends and never know when you might need someone), but putting up boundaries where needed and keeping some at arm's length. So I'd have people I'd invite over to my place and go over to theirs, others I'd meet for a pint every so often, others I'd only see in work, then some I'd just keep to social media or chat with if I bump into them and so on. Set your limit with this lad (you don't have to tell him you're doing so, that's a bit awkward) and don't get dragged in if you're uncomfortable doing so.

lawred2

leggo wrote: »

I guess you're reaching your limits with the friendship, and that's okay. I've got people I know, in work and so on, who have messy personal lives who I'd listen to if they needed to vent and talk through stuff with them but keep a distance from said personal life because I don't want to get dragged into any ****show. Then I've got other mates who I'd go to the ends of the earth to help if needed, there's no max limit they could ask of me because I know they'd do the same if I needed it.

You've reached your wall here by the sound of things. I'm a big believer in not writing people off entirely (because you can never have too many friends and never know when you might need someone), but putting up boundaries where needed and keeping some at arm's length. So I'd have people I'd invite over to my place and go over to theirs, others I'd meet for a pint every so often, others I'd only see in work, then some I'd just keep to social media or chat with if I bump into them and so on. Set your limit with this lad (you don't have to tell him you're doing so, that's a bit awkward) and don't get dragged in if you're uncomfortable doing so.

are they friends in the true sense though? - or more circumstantial?

would you be keeping in touch with them if you moved on? your circumstances changed? move house/job? That's usually how I gauge whether someone is a friend or an acquaintance.

With true friends I don't think limits really exist..

leggo

lawred2 wrote: »

are they friends in the true sense though? - or more circumstantial?

would you be keeping in touch with them if you moved on? your circumstances changed? move house/job? That's usually how I gauge whether someone is a friend or an acquaintance.

With true friends I don't think limits really exist..

Why does that matter to what the OP's saying? The discussion is about her issue, not what different people's interpretation of the word 'friend' is.

lawred2

leggo wrote: »

Why does that matter to what the OP's saying? The discussion is about her issue, not what different people's interpretation of the word 'friend' is.

it's relevant as to whether he's overreaching with her...

DroppingBombs

BettePorter wrote: »

It depends really what his end game is. Do u think his statements re the wife's jealousy were leading in the sense he was allowing for you to say .....'actually John ...sHe has reason to get jealous ...I've always wanted us to be more than friends '?

I don't know anymore. The more I think over our conversations, the more I get the feeling he wants this scenario. He sometimes talks as if he is single rather than married and will describe what he wants in a partner. And I sometimes find myself thinking as I listen "Hang on a sec. That sounds almost like you are describing me." I kinda laughed it off in the past, as two buds shooting the ****, but it's now all starting to add up. And even though the reality is that he is barking up the wrong tree, I also know straight men have their own ideas.

BettePorter wrote: »

Or was he simply venting as I think friends should be allowed do. You are his friend after all. ..not both his and hers. So unless he starts using u as an alibi if he started seeing someone else on the side ... I don't really see why you would have an issue with him venting once you'd clarified that he'd put her right about you and he just being friends and no more .

I'm all for listening to friends vent on all manner of subjects. I do draw the line when asked to comment on their partners though. And the problem I have here is I feel I am being pulled into this guy's mess.

DroppingBombs

leggo wrote: »

I guess you're reaching your limits with the friendship, and that's okay. I've got people I know, in work and so on, who have messy personal lives who I'd listen to if they needed to vent and talk through stuff with them but keep a distance from said personal life because I don't want to get dragged into any ****show. Then I've got other mates who I'd go to the ends of the earth to help if needed, there's no max limit they could ask of me because I know they'd do the same if I needed it.

You've reached your wall here by the sound of things. I'm a big believer in not writing people off entirely (because you can never have too many friends and never know when you might need someone), but putting up boundaries where needed and keeping some at arm's length. So I'd have people I'd invite over to my place and go over to theirs, others I'd meet for a pint every so often, others I'd only see in work, then some I'd just keep to social media or chat with if I bump into them and so on. Set your limit with this lad (you don't have to tell him you're doing so, that's a bit awkward) and don't get dragged in if you're uncomfortable doing so.

Not only have I reached my limits, I am beginning to consider this guy's motives for wanting to hang out. I feel he has intentionally tried to blur the lines.

Verity.

DroppingBombs wrote: »

Not only have I reached my limits, I am beginning to consider this guy's motives for wanting to hang out. I feel he has intentionally tried to blur the lines.

I think you've read far too much into it. He could have been just trying to confide in you how insecure his wife is, and he's finding it hard to manage. As his friend, my first thought would not have been that he was using me as a tool to annoy his wife.

If the whole thing made you feel uncomfortable you should have told him you'd rather not get involved with his marriage, rather than consider parting ways as friends. It would lead me to believe you weren't really that close as friends if the friendship is that expendable.

Big Bag of Chips

You know him better than we do, and if you got a sense off him, then you mightn't be too far off the mark. From your posts it does sound like he's almost boasting that what he does makes his wife jealous. I don't agree that friendships should suffer because of relationships, but maybe your friend gets a kick out of making his wife jealous. By texting these other women etc.

You're only hearing his side, and obviously he's giving you the version he wants you to hear. If you feel something is a bit off, something is probably a bit off. You're best places to judge.