Power output of Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV - VRT

quenching

I'm collecting a 2015 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV GX4H next week from the UK and obviously need to pay VRT when I import it. However, the Revenue VRT calculator shows several GX4H models (why am I surprised!)



Picking the first "2.0 GX4H 160BHP 5dr auto" gives a VRT figure of €1882
Picking the second "2.0 GX4H 200BHP 5dr auto" gives a VRT figure of €1625
Picking the third "2.0 GX4H 200BHP 5dr auto" gives a VRT figure of €1683

Oddly, the seemingly lower bhp is the higher VRT.

As far as I'm aware all the UK 2015 GX4H models have the same BHP, although its often quoted as anywhere between 160bhp and 204bhp due to the complex nature of the drivetrain. The best I've found it described is as follows:

160bhp or 200bhp
At any speed between roughly 60 km/h and 120 km/h there is max 160 bhp available in serial mode. In parallel mode, available power will be less, at these speeds. At approx. 120 km/h, paralel mode and serial mode brake even, when it comes to available power. Above approx. 120 km/h serial mode is no longer available as it does not make sense. Available power slowly increases from 160 bhp up. To achieve the max of 204 bhp, you need to be going 170 km/h, as this requires max revs from the ICE. Below 60 km/h, there is less than 160 bhp available because at lower revs you will hit max torque of the motors before reaching max bhp.

Some mention the combined bhp of the 2 electric motors plus the petrol engine but as I understand it the combined max power of 2 electric motors is never available as this would exceed the max current available from the batteries.

Anyone here any more informed or already paid VRT on a GX4H?

quenching

Anyone anything to offer?

liamog

A three year old PHEV is given a €1750 discount on it's VRT. So long as it's less than €1750 you'll pay zero.

quenching

liamog wrote: »

A three year old PHEV is given a €1750 discount on it's VRT. So long as it's less than €1750 you'll pay zero.

Thanks, but the VRT figures I mention already include the €1750 reduction in VRT.

Gumbo

Ask the seller to email you a photo of the V5 information.
That will state exactly which model it is and it states exactly the CO2 output so you can compare.

quenching

kceire wrote: »

Ask the seller to email you a photo of the V5 information.
That will state exactly which model it is and it states exactly the CO2 output so you can compare.

A good plan, you would think :eek:

I've already done this and the CO2 output is listed as 44g/km on the V5C. However, on the VRT calculator, the so called "160bhp" model has a CO2 value of 44g/km, while the first 200bhp model is 42 g/km, and the second 200bhp model is 44g/km. So mine is either the first or the third, I think.

Parkers website has shed some light on this, seems there was a change in Sept 2015 in how the power output was calculated, the total power output when in parallel mode was used i.e. 200bhp, or sometimes 204bhp, as opposed to 160bhp (the output when in series mode). This coincided with a tweak to the CO2 emissions, from 44 to 42g/km (sometimes listed as 41g/km).

It would appear that cars registered before 09/2015 will show a power output of 160bhp and those after will show 200bhp despite having exactly the same drivetrain, power, and performance, its just calculated differently.

I have my suspicions this is all related to UK company car BIK and the London congestion charge, as the vast majority of these cars were sold to business users to take advantage of the tax savings.

Soarer

It's only €250 between the highest and lowest.

Prepare for the worst, and if it's less, happy days.

It'd be different if there were a few grand in it. But you could gain that €250 back in currency exchange.

quenching

Soarer wrote: »

It's only €250 between the highest and lowest.

Prepare for the worst, and if it's less, happy days.

It'd be different if there were a few grand in it. But you could gain that €250 back in currency exchange.

Indeed, but I'm not in the habit of parting with €250 if I don't have to

whacker00

@quenching good research done here , I had been pricing up and comparing importing one from the UK vs buying here and had wondered why it has showed up with so many models on the calculator. Equally auto trader just shows 119BHP for all models which must be some standard data 
Have you seen a big saving to importing ?

quenching

whacker00 wrote: »

@quenching good research done here , I had been pricing up and comparing importing one from the UK vs buying here and had wondered why it has showed up with so many models on the calculator. Equally auto trader just shows 119BHP for all models which must be some standard data 
Have you seen a big saving to importing ?

Autotrader is wrong I’m afraid, they’re listing 119bhp whereas it should be 119kW, which is 160bhp. My V5C shows 119kW.

I reckon I’m saving about €4k compared to buying the same car from a Mitsubishi dealer. It would appear that about 90% of them for sale in Ireland are ex lease cars from the UK, even the ones for sale in Irish Mitsubishi dealers. They were over €50k new here with none of the tax breaks UK company car drivers received so they didn’t sell well.

Electricautos.ie are more reasonable with pricing if you don’t fancy the hassle of importing one yourself, but they still have a business to run. I’m off to collect mine tomorrow.

whacker00

@quenching - thanks for the information really good to add to the research i have been doing 
It all looks really positive and I will probably take the plunge in the coming weeks , importing from the UK id say as it does look like a good saving 
The very best of luck with your new car and let us know how it works out for you

og2k7

quenching wrote: »

Autotrader is wrong I’m afraid, they’re listing 119bhp whereas it should be 119kW, which is 160bhp. My V5C shows 119kW.

I reckon I’m saving about €4k compared to buying the same car from a Mitsubishi dealer. It would appear that about 90% of them for sale in Ireland are ex lease cars from the UK, even the ones for sale in Irish Mitsubishi dealers. They were over €50k new here with none of the tax breaks UK company car drivers received so they didn’t sell well.

Electricautos.ie are more reasonable with pricing if you don’t fancy the hassle of importing one yourself, but they still have a business to run. I’m off to collect mine tomorrow.

Nice one - I have ordered mine today - hopefully will have it by Saturday.

Can you let me know how did you get on with VRT? Mine is 03/2015 and VRT is at 1100± EUR

Thanks

sparrowcar

og2k7 wrote: »

Nice one - I have ordered mine today - hopefully will have it by Saturday.

Can you let me know how did you get on with VRT? Mine is 03/2015 and VRT is at 1100± EUR

Thanks

When you say ordered do you mean from the UK? Is it being delivered to you here or are you flying over to collect?

og2k7

sparrowcar wrote: »

When you say ordered do you mean from the UK? Is it being delivered to you here or are you flying over to collect?

Yes - from the UK and yea, getting it delivered here. Difference between me flying and ferry back was roughly around 130 quid so prefer to spend that time with kids

sparrowcar

og2k7 wrote: »

Yes - from the UK and yea, getting it delivered here. Difference between me flying and ferry back was roughly around 130 quid so prefer to spend that time with kids

Sent you a PM if you had a minute to reply.
Cheers

quenching

og2k7 wrote: »

Nice one - I have ordered mine today - hopefully will have it by Saturday.

Can you let me know how did you get on with VRT? Mine is 03/2015 and VRT is at 1100± EUR

Thanks

I had my VRT appointment yesterday, they used the highest amount, €1846 so dropped a bit. The OMSP they used was €25690 which seems very high to me so I'll lodge an appeal and see what happens.

Which model are you using to get a quote of €1100?

og2k7

quenching wrote: »

I had my VRT appointment yesterday, they used the highest amount, €1846 so dropped a bit. The OMSP they used was €25690 which seems very high to me so I'll lodge an appeal and see what happens.

Which model are you using to get a quote of €1100?

Gx3h so lower than yours if I remember correctly

Soarer

og2k7 wrote: »

Yes - from the UK and yea, getting it delivered here. Difference between me flying and ferry back was roughly around 130 quid so prefer to spend that time with kids

Fair play.

I'd pay the 130 quid to get away from my two lunatics!

og2k7

Soarer wrote: »

Fair play.

I'd pay the 130 quid to get away from my two lunatics!

LOL

og2k7

Got my hands on the PHEV: blown away to be honest. Driving in electric mode is amazing: becoming a bit paranoid about using petrol at all! (that will pass I hope).

For a basic model it is well equipped and it is a lot of a car for the price: compared to our estate (which was cavernous already) this is a beast. Rides high too so really feels like a proper SUV

So far very impressed - also speakers are top notch. Booked in the VRT today so hopefully everything will be in order soon

quenching

I did my first longer trip from Dublin to Waterford and back yesterday, part of the reason for buying an Outlander was to be able to do these trips rather than use our Leaf. I stopped by the FCP's in Carlow and Knocktopher just to see where they were located, both had a Leaf charging at them. In the 24kW Leaf I reckon I'd have to stop at both of them to get to Waterford if charging to 80%, plus charge in Waterford on the way back. If I left home with a full charge the Dublin-Waterford journey time in the Leaf would have been almost 4 hours (2 hours driving at 100kph + 1hr charging + 1hr waiting) as opposed to 1hr 45min in the Outlander. I can only assume the return journey would be the same times.

The Leaf costs would have been the home charge cost alone, about €2, whereas the Outlander averaged 43mpg (left Dublin fully charged and charged to 80% in Waterford), so about €32 in petrol. So was it worth the extra €30 to save over 4 hour? With children in the car I would say most definitely! However, thats the only petrol I've used since getting it 2 weeks ago, but if I include the 180 mile drive to the ferry when I collected it my average in 2 weeks was 81MPG, plus about €11 in electricity. Including electricity thats equivalent to about 62MPG covering 50/50 city/motorway driving. Would I get that same average in a 4WD similar sized ICE car?

Apart from that the car is terrific, can't complain about anything really (apart from the owners manual which is mostly jibberish!)

sparrowcar

quenching wrote: »

I did my first longer trip from Dublin to Waterford and back yesterday, part of the reason for buying an Outlander was to be able to do these trips rather than use our Leaf. I stopped by the FCP's in Carlow and Knocktopher just to see where they were located, both had a Leaf charging at them. In the 24kW Leaf I reckon I'd have to stop at both of them to get to Waterford if charging to 80%, plus charge in Waterford on the way back. If I left home with a full charge the Dublin-Waterford journey time in the Leaf would have been almost 4 hours (2 hours driving at 100kph + 1hr charging + 1hr waiting) as opposed to 1hr 45min in the Outlander. I can only assume the return journey would be the same times.

The Leaf costs would have been the home charge cost alone, about €2, whereas the Outlander averaged 43mpg (left Dublin fully charged and charged to 80% in Waterford), so about €32 in petrol. So was it worth the extra €30 to save over 4 hour? With children in the car I would say most definitely! However, thats the only petrol I've used since getting it 2 weeks ago, but if I include the 180 mile drive to the ferry when I collected it my average in 2 weeks was 81MPG, plus about €11 in electricity. Including electricity thats equivalent to about 62MPG covering 50/50 city/motorway driving. Would I get that same average in a 4WD similar sized ICE car?

Apart from that the car is terrific, can't complain about anything really (apart from the owners manual which is mostly jibberish!)

How did you find the performance/acceleration on the motorway, does it overtake and cruise well?

My test drive was short enough and never got above 60kph so hard to judge.

H.E. Pennypacker

@quenching - Its worth playing around with the regeneration paddles as it seems to take a while to figure out what settings work best for your driving conditions - there's potential for more fuel savings/greater battery range that way. Sounds like its working out well so far.

quenching

sparrowcar wrote: »

How did you find the performance/acceleration on the motorway, does it overtake and cruise well?

My test drive was short enough and never got above 60kph so hard to judge.

No shortage of power for overtaking, the petrol engine fires up if you press hard on the accelerator but you can hardly hear it at all. I had the cruise control set at 120kph and managed about 40km I think before the batteries depleted. I did play around with the "Charge" and "Save" modes so that I had a decent battery level when I got to the city driving at the end. "Charge" increases fuel consumption but you seem to gain more than you lose overall, if that makes sense.

og2k7

quenching wrote: »

I did my first longer trip from Dublin to Waterford and back yesterday, part of the reason for buying an Outlander was to be able to do these trips rather than use our Leaf. I stopped by the FCP's in Carlow and Knocktopher just to see where they were located, both had a Leaf charging at them. In the 24kW Leaf I reckon I'd have to stop at both of them to get to Waterford if charging to 80%, plus charge in Waterford on the way back. If I left home with a full charge the Dublin-Waterford journey time in the Leaf would have been almost 4 hours (2 hours driving at 100kph + 1hr charging + 1hr waiting) as opposed to 1hr 45min in the Outlander. I can only assume the return journey would be the same times.

The Leaf costs would have been the home charge cost alone, about €2, whereas the Outlander averaged 43mpg (left Dublin fully charged and charged to 80% in Waterford), so about €32 in petrol. So was it worth the extra €30 to save over 4 hour? With children in the car I would say most definitely! However, thats the only petrol I've used since getting it 2 weeks ago, but if I include the 180 mile drive to the ferry when I collected it my average in 2 weeks was 81MPG, plus about €11 in electricity. Including electricity thats equivalent to about 62MPG covering 50/50 city/motorway driving. Would I get that same average in a 4WD similar sized ICE car?

Apart from that the car is terrific, can't complain about anything really (apart from the owners manual which is mostly jibberish!)

Nice one thanks for this: when you charge at home, do you have a different tariff (as in day/night) or do you just plug in and off you go?

Thanks!

quenching

og2k7 wrote: »

Nice one thanks for this: when you charge at home, do you have a different tariff (as in day/night) or do you just plug in and off you go?

Thanks!

I have a day/night meter installed so try to charge it at night using the timer but sometimes charge it during the day. I generally cycle to work which is better again, but hard to move 3 children this way

og2k7

quenching wrote: »

I have a day/night meter installed so try to charge it at night using the timer but sometimes charge it during the day. I generally cycle to work which is better again, but hard to move 3 children this way

Ha, thanks - good to hear I am not the only one having same issues: I have 2 and moving them isnt easy

quenching

I'm replacing all 4 tyres on my Outlander PHEV with Michelin Cross Climate tyres as the fronts are more worn than I'd like (3.3mm) and I prefer the Michelins which are summer tyres but also certified for winter use. Also, the Toyo's are hard to get.

As a result, I have the rear pair of Toyo R37 225/55/18 tyres available if anyone is interested in buying some part worn ones, otherwise they'll sit in the shed as backups. They have about 7mm of tread depth on them, evenly worn, they're coming off the car in the next few days.....

og2k7

quenching wrote: »

I'm replacing all 4 tyres on my Outlander PHEV with Michelin Cross Climate tyres as the fronts are more worn than I'd like (3.3mm) and I prefer the Michelins which are summer tyres but also certified for winter use. Also, the Toyo's are hard to get.

As a result, I have the rear pair of Toyo R37 225/55/18 tyres available if anyone is interested in buying some part worn ones, otherwise they'll sit in the shed as backups. They have about 7mm of tread depth on them, evenly worn, they're coming off the car in the next few days.....

Whats the cost of the Michelin Cross Climate if you dont mind me asking, I have seen them mentioned all over forums

Thanks

quenching

I'm paying €185 each, but I was quoted up to €210. Unless you have the space/need for a full set of winter and summer tyres these are the best compromise. They're not full winter tyres but work much better below 7 degrees than summer tyres which are fitted to the vast majority of cars in Ireland. We spend a lot of the winter below 7 degrees. In countries where winter tyres are a legal requirement, the Michelins are acceptable.

og2k7

Got the VRT sorted finally. Ended up paying slightly less than the calculator however the initial quote was over 200 quid more, as they were looking at the wrong model. I would suggest getting the printout and knowing exactly what is registered (i know, sounds obvious) but dont think they are too familiar with EVs, PHEVs over there, so have to guide them

sparrowcar

Getting my PHEV early next week. Some great help on here when doing my research so thanks.
What print out are you speaking off? Would be good to have all the ammo ready for my vrt appointment.

og2k7

sparrowcar wrote: »

Getting my PHEV early next week. Some great help on here when doing my research so thanks.
What print out are you speaking off? Would be good to have all the ammo ready for my vrt appointment.

When you do the calculation from VRT site, just print it off (or save to PDF and then print).

What model did you go for?

sparrowcar

og2k7 wrote: »

When you do the calculation from VRT site, just print it off (or save to PDF and then print).

What model did you go for?

2015 GX4H up north. Immaculate condition compared to what i saw down here. Only 36k miles on clock. It's gunmetal grey which was my preferred colour also. I had resigned myself to buying from the UK but chanced the drive up north and found a gem for good money.

og2k7

sparrowcar wrote: »

2015 GX4H up north. Immaculate condition compared to what i saw down here. Only 36k miles on clock. It's gunmetal grey which was my preferred colour also. I had resigned myself to buying from the UK but chanced the drive up north and found a gem for good money.

Awesome - good luck! I still like the car haha - I have tried to book an appointment with Westbrook for that free condition check but been 2 weeks and no-one bothered coming back to me so far. Need to try again

sparrowcar

og2k7 wrote: »

Awesome - good luck! I still like the car haha - I have tried to book an appointment with Westbrook for that free condition check but been 2 weeks and no-one bothered coming back to me so far. Need to try again

I bought from Mitsubishi dealer so full service and health check which was very reassuring.
Thanks for you help btw

og2k7

sparrowcar wrote: »

I bought from Mitsubishi dealer so full service and health check which was very reassuring.
Thanks for you help btw

All good, happy to help - btw sign up to Outlander PHEV FB group - super informative and very helpful guys over there.

edanto

Thanks for the detail in this thread and the updates.

quenching

quenching wrote: »

I had my VRT appointment yesterday, they used the highest amount, €1846 so dropped a bit. The OMSP they used was €25690 which seems very high to me so I'll lodge an appeal and see what happens.

Just to update the VRT aspect. I appealed the initial VRT amount of €1846 to the Revenue VRT unit and it was flatly rejected without any explanation of how they arrived at their valuation, just a statement saying that it had been reviewed recently and the amount was correct. So I lodged a second stage appeal to the Tax Appeals Commisioner, this is easier said than done as they are virtually impossible to get hold of, but I persevered and eventually got to speak to a very helpful chap. I sent details outlined my reasoning that the initial Revenue VRT calculation was excessive and gave a few examples of similar cars for sale, I reckoned I should have paid about €1220 and that they owed me about €600. Today I got a letter from Revenue outlining very similar examples of cars for sale to the ones I submitted and asking if I would accept a refund of about €540 or have the matter referred back to the Tax Appeals Commissioner. Their valuation had changed from approx €25k to approx €22k. It’s probably not worth the effort of perusing it further for the sake of €60 so I think I’ll just accept the refund.

So, in this case being a stubborn sod has paid off!

sparrowcar

Wow... simply wow.
PM on the way

TomOnBoard

Well done! Great result! Needless to say, we'd love to understand the process you followed.

quenching

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Well done! Great result! Needless to say, we'd love to understand the process you followed.

Its simple enough, the process is outlined here:
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/appeals/index.aspx

1. You must pay whatever VRT is initially calculated by Revenue.
2. You then lodge a first stage appeal to the Revenue VRT Unit. Give some examples from reputable garages of cars of the same model and similar mileages. You may get a refund at this stage but apparently, mostly they refuse.
3. You then have 30 days to lodge a second stage appeal with the Tax Appeals Commissioner. Here you really just copy/paste your reasoning given to the Revenue VRT Unit. Note that the TAC are seriously understaffed at the moment and very difficult to contact, phones/emails go unanswered but persistence will get you there. I had to contact the office of the Minister for Finance to give TAC a nudge. Once you can get hold of them they are extremely helpful.
4. Once TAC receive your second stage appeal they inform Revenue who have 30 days to respond. They seem prompt to respond and if your case is legitimate they then appear fair enough. But why the first stage refusal?
5. Revenue will then either refuse your second stage appeal and refer it back to the TAC or offer a recalculation of VRT.

In my first stage appeal, I pointed out to Revenue the anomalies in the VRT calculator (listing several BHP variants of the same model when they're all really the same) as well as the excessive valuation. In my second stage appeal, I just went with the valuation.

I'm going to accept the current refund offer, so we'll see how long it takes Revenue to issue the cheque.

TomOnBoard

quenching wrote: »

Its simple enough, the process is outlined here:
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/appeals/index.aspx

1. You must pay whatever VRT is initially calculated by Revenue.
2. You then lodge a first stage appeal to the Revenue VRT Unit. Give some examples from reputable garages of cars of the same model and similar mileages. You may get a refund at this stage but apparently, mostly they refuse.
3. You then have 30 days to lodge a second stage appeal with the Tax Appeals Commissioner. Here you really just copy/paste your reasoning given to the Revenue VRT Unit. Note that the TAC are seriously understaffed at the moment and very difficult to contact, phones/emails go unanswered but persistence will get you there. I had to contact the office of the Minister for Finance to give TAC a nudge. Once you can get hold of them they are extremely helpful.
4. Once TAC receive your second stage appeal they inform Revenue who have 30 days to respond. They seem prompt to respond and if your case is legitimate they then appear fair enough. But why the first stage refusal?
5. Revenue will then either refuse your second stage appeal and refer it back to the TAC or offer a recalculation of VRT.

In my first stage appeal, I pointed out to Revenue the anomalies in the VRT calculator (listing several BHP variants of the same model when they're all really the same) as well as the excessive valuation. In my second stage appeal, I just went with the valuation.

I'm going to accept the current refund offer, so we'll see how long it takes Revenue to issue the cheque.

Excellent How-To. Thanks a million..

og2k7

quenching wrote: »

So, in this case being a stubborn sod has paid off!

Nothing wrong with it - you wont get on a bus if you dont have the correct change on you - so nicely done. They will get you somewhere else dont worry

VRT is not ready for EV/Hybrids - also Id say buyers like us are more knowledgeable at this stage as we know exactly what we are buying - plus as you mentioned, they have multiple models listed and will go after higher fee. If this was my father sorting out the VRT he would have paid whatever amount they tell him - as they have to be right.

@TomOnBoard - if you are VRTing your car, make sure to print off the VRT Calculation as it helped me lower it on the spot by over 200 quid

unkel

og2k7 wrote: »

VRT is not ready for EV/Hybrids

VRT is very ready for EV. You just pay nothing

Unless you bring in a Tesla of course...

og2k7

unkel wrote: »

VRT is very ready for EV. You just pay nothing

Unless you bring in a Tesla of course...

Haha - just seen a brand new Model S - awesome car, still would prefer Model X - for the kids you know

slave1

I'm going to accept the current refund offer, so we'll see how long it takes Revenue to issue the cheque.

I appealed twice previously, in both cases had a cheque within a week of the letter from VRT crowd.

Grumpypants

Work just installed two charging points so a PHEV is a serious option now. I live 32km away, so could charge at work, make it home, and almost get back in without using the petrol engine. A little top up at home would do the trick.

Been looking around and the Outlander seems to fit my needs (room for two kids, buggies, dealing with pot-holes on country lanes).

Importing would be great, but I've a 08 A4 to get rid of, I tried selling privately before and the thoughts of dealing with fivers for luck again gives me shivers. So I'd prob need to trade in.

Looking at about 15K cash, what would be a reasonable expectation on the A4. Full Audi history, brand new timing belt and just passed the NCT but 350,000km. 4-5k be madness?

sparrowcar

Grumpypants wrote: »

Work just installed two charging points so a PHEV is a serious option now. I live 32km away, so could charge at work, make it home, and almost get back in without using the petrol engine. A little top up at home would do the trick.

Been looking around and the Outlander seems to fit my needs (room for two kids, buggies, dealing with pot-holes on country lanes).

Importing would be great, but I've a 08 A4 to get rid of, I tried selling privately before and the thoughts of dealing with fivers for luck again gives me shivers. So I'd prob need to trade in.

Looking at about 15K cash, what would be a reasonable expectation on the A4. Full Audi history, brand new timing belt and just passed the NCT but 350,000km. 4-5k be madness?

Pre or after tax changes?

og2k7

Grumpypants wrote: »

Work just installed two charging points so a PHEV is a serious option now. I live 32km away, so could charge at work, make it home, and almost get back in without using the petrol engine. A little top up at home would do the trick.

Been looking around and the Outlander seems to fit my needs (room for two kids, buggies, dealing with pot-holes on country lanes).

Importing would be great, but I've a 08 A4 to get rid of, I tried selling privately before and the thoughts of dealing with fivers for luck again gives me shivers. So I'd prob need to trade in.

Looking at about 15K cash, what would be a reasonable expectation on the A4. Full Audi history, brand new timing belt and just passed the NCT but 350,000km. 4-5k be madness?

You wont get that much

I traded in my 08 estate and got 1400 for it and to be honest I dont have time nor will to deal with private buyers. If you get a Gx3h (as I did) you should get a good model at 13.3 14k sterling x FX + VRT + importing (logistics,ferry, you name it) = should be roughly 17 k minus your A4

Hope this helps

Grumpypants

sparrowcar wrote: »

Pre or after tax changes?

After, €280 tax per year.