termination notice

rightmove

hi

House rented and issued notice as I want it back. The termination notice (it turned out) was incorrect (no declaration). Tenant never challenged it but I believe if I go to the PRTB the notice will be an issue so I wont bother. I gave them almost a years notice as they have been there along time (7yrs) and I was trying to be decent (I was renting recently also and I got 3 months notice (via a phone call)and I know its a lot of pressure to get another place, which I just about did), so I am a little annoyed, mainly with myself for not getting the notice correct. Threshold were the ppl who told them the notice was not right.

The rent is way below market value. Also they are over month behind in paying the rent. Again this was a progressive slippage over the years they are in residence. I asked them to setup a direct debit last year (as it had gone over 30 days late) and they pretty much ignored this which has annoyed me greatly.

Ok so I am going to get a proper notice done up with the clock reset. I live along way away from the property and my solicitor is local to me. If I get the paper work complete with my solicitor is they any reason that I cannot use another solicitor more convenient to the property if the case eventually goes to the prtb as I would rather avoid travel expenses etc. Can a solicitor different to the one I used to sign the termination be used for adjudication purposes?

I am not sure if I should also pursue a warning on the rent and look for a notice to terminate if they dont comply with this. Might mention it to the solicitor

My plan is to move into the house for 6-12 months and I may look at selling after. Again I am not sure. Does it matter which reason is on the termination if I am not planning to rent it out again?

Also the tenants (before going to threshold that is) tried to come to an arrangement to pay me significant "extra" rent which I declined.

I presume this would have been some cash deal etc. Again I didn't take the bait.

One way or another I will talk to a solicitor this week. Not sure how much it would cost for the them to check it over get some advice?

In relation to delivery I an thinking of getting it registered when I send it to be sure.

davo10

Do you mind me asking, why are you not termination the tenancy based on tenant breaching lease by being in arrears on rent?

the_syco

rightmove wrote: »

Also they are over month behind in paying the rent.

Start the ball rolling. 14 day notice. And then the months notice. Quicker way to get them evicted than the way you tried to do.

rightmove

davo10 wrote: »

Do you mind me asking, why are you not termination the tenancy based on tenant breaching lease by being in arrears on rent?

Going to look at this now. The slippage was a day here and there every month and I didn't deal with it firmly. Last year I told them to set up direct debit. Main thing I wanted was regularity rather than doubt about when I would see the rent. They mentioned about paying extra to make up shortfall. I didn't like slobbering with this and they didn't do it anyhow. They seem to be chances tbh

airy fairy

Get legal advice asap.
Send out your notice once again, properly, by your legal team. They will sort out evidence of delivery etc.
Once your legal termination date comes up, take it up with prtb on that day, do not delay.
If your tenants are talking to Threshold and prtb, they're in for the long haul unfortunately.
Was in such a predicament a year ago. Tenants only in house 5 months, gave proper notice, all above board, all done properly.
Between prtb, hearing, and their ruling, it took 6 months. They ruled in our favour, as expected. During this time, no rent paid for the 6 months.
Their vacate date passed, they ignored.
Had to then employ our solicitor and barrister and apply to courts to get a ruling. That took 5 months. The courts are full of these cases.
Court ruled in our favour, tenant was brazen and told judge that because there was a small mortgage on the property, that we could afford to leave him in the property without collecting rent!!!!!
Anyway, sheriff was to be appointed within 7 days if he wasn't out. He moved out on day 6.
Left us with 12 months without rent, house full of rubbish, dirt, mould growing in fridge.....I could go on.
The law is on the tenant side, so bad, that even though no rent being paid, and court proceedings in place, law states the landlord isn't entitled to inspect or enter the property as they are still considered as tenants.
House sold now.
Will never ever rent out a property again
Please please act now.

rightmove

airy fairy wrote: »

Get legal advice asap.
Send out your notice once again, properly, by your legal team. They will sort out evidence of delivery etc.
Once your legal termination date comes up, take it up with prtb on that day, do not delay.
If your tenants are talking to Threshold and prtb, they're in for the long haul unfortunately.
Was in such a predicament a year ago. Tenants only in house 5 months, gave proper notice, all above board, all done properly.
Between prtb, hearing, and their ruling, it took 6 months. They ruled in our favour, as expected. During this time, no rent paid for the 6 months.
Their vacate date passed, they ignored.
Had to then employ our solicitor and barrister and apply to courts to get a ruling. That took 5 months. The courts are full of these cases.
Court ruled in our favour, tenant was brazen and told judge that because there was a small mortgage on the property, that we could afford to leave him in the property without collecting rent!!!!!
Anyway, sheriff was to be appointed within 7 days if he wasn't out. He moved out on day 6.
Left us with 12 months without rent, house full of rubbish, dirt, mould growing in fridge.....I could go on.
The law is on the tenant side, so bad, that even though no rent being paid, and court proceedings in place, law states the landlord isn't entitled to inspect or enter the property as they are still considered as tenants.
House sold now.
Will never ever rent out a property again
Please please act now.

They went to threshold but not rtb. Going to get the notice done this week. I will then put in the warning for arrears 14 day one. They also receive some sw payments for rent. If they dont sort the rent out i guess i will look for notice on that basis also . I dont want escalalation but don't think I have much option

airy fairy

They've probably rang rtb aswell. Threshold are completely on the tenant side and really hype them up to bring a case forward/not to pay rent/overstay. I really believe they are a major factor in the non payment of rents.
My tenant was also on SW, getting rent allowance, but wasn't forwarding it to us, so pocketing our monthly rent payment. If this happens and your tenant is withholding payment and are still getting rent allowance, report them.
The notice to vacate etc are all fine, of a tenant is willing to move within that time, unfortunately, since my experience, I've heard of so many cases of overstaying, it's not funny.
Even on this board you will see some tenants getting advice from others to stay in the property as they can get free rental/jump housing list etc.
I hope though you get a quick resolution.
It's awful that you can't get your own property back when you need it.

rightmove

Termination notice doesn't even have an option for moving back into the property. It asks foir intended duration. Just going to put down "full time basis"

airy fairy

rightmove wrote: »

Termination notice doesn't even have an option for moving back into the property. It asks foir intended duration. Just going to put down "full time basis"

I'm not sure it makes a difference, if it's time the tenants want with no rent being paid, then they'll get it unfortunately.
We were legally within our rights to take the property back under the 6 months (we have notice at 4 months), didn't have to give a reason, but we had signed contracts with an auctioneer, just for added plus on our side. Threshold was giving the tenant advice saying otherwise, and we still had to produce intended sale notice in court. The tenant was going to be thrown out at the end anyway, with sheriff and guards, but he got 12 months free accommodation, left 1000's in arrears in bills for ESB, gas, parking fines etc. The judge, when making his ruling, apologised saying he wished we could get the thousands owed to us would be repaid, but he couldn't see us getting a cent. And we didn't.
Be prepared for the long haul.

rightmove

airy fairy wrote: »

I'm not sure it makes a difference, if it's time the tenants want with no rent being paid, then they'll get it unfortunately.
We were legally within our rights to take the property back under the 6 months (we have notice at 4 months), didn't have to give a reason, but we had signed contracts with an auctioneer, just for added plus on our side. Threshold was giving the tenant advice saying otherwise, and we still had to produce intended sale notice in court. The tenant was going to be thrown out at the end anyway, with sheriff and guards, but he got 12 months free accommodation, left 1000's in arrears in bills for ESB, gas, parking fines etc. The judge, when making his ruling, apologised saying he wished we could get the thousands owed to us would be repaid, but he couldn't see us getting a cent. And we didn't.
Be prepared for the long haul.

Incredible. Your story. At moment they do pay rent but it's got later and later and is now over a month behind. I mean they offered me more rent (under counter) but won't pay the rent itself when due???

airy fairy

rightmove wrote: »

Incredible. Your story. At moment they do pay rent but it's got later and later and is now over a month behind. I mean they offered me more rent (under counter) but won't pay the rent itself when due???

Go get yourself to a solicitor asap.
You can issue them with a late rent notice, I think it's 14 days after rent is due.
I think you have 2 chances to do this, then they can be issued with notice to vacate in the next X amount of days. (I can't remember the amount of days)
You need to start issuing them with these notices, they will all amount in your favour.
In the event they overstay, and not pay rent, then you take your case to rtb first. Don't go with mediation, go straight to the hearing. We went with mediation first, the fecker never turned up, so it delayed the process by about 2 months, meanwhile they're living free.
My case isn't unusual. The courts are full of similar cases, every week, which is why getting a hearing took so long, but the tenant knew this.
Really, go get a solicitor today.

the_syco

rightmove wrote: »

They mentioned about paying extra to make up shortfall.

Speak to your solicitor about demanding the full amount owed, including any historic debt. You say it's nearly a month late at this stage? Fcuk it. Get the solicitor to write the letter asking for the full amount that you're owed now, and do the 14 days notice. Get them out, and get someone in that will pay on time.

rightmove wrote: »

Incredible. Your story. At moment they do pay rent but it's got later and later and is now over a month behind. I mean they offered me more rent (under counter) but won't pay the rent itself when due???

If your house is in the RPZ area, their plan may have been to pay you a few months, and then stop paying you, threatening to report you to the RTB for illegally going over the RPZ limit.

rightmove

the_syco wrote: »

Speak to your solicitor about demanding the full amount owed, including any historic debt. You say it's nearly a month late at this stage? Fcuk it. Get the solicitor to write the letter asking for the full amount that you're owed now, and do the 14 days notice. Get them out, and get someone in that will pay on time.


If your house is in the RPZ area, their plan may have been to pay you a few months, and then stop paying you, threatening to report you to the RTB for illegally going over the RPZ limit.

On first point. Spoke to solicitor. Going to send the 14 day warning with the new notice.

On second point you could be correct. I didn't think of that

the_syco

rightmove wrote: »

On first point. Spoke to solicitor. Going to send the 14 day warning with the new notice.

Ensure the full amount owed; the total owed from previous months when full rent wasn't given, and not just this month, is written on the notice.

rightmove

rightmove wrote: »

Incredible. Your story. At moment they do pay rent but it's got later and later and is now over a month behind. I mean they offered me more rent (under counter) but won't pay the rent itself when due???

Rent under the counter is a trap.

You accept it and then they'll say you illegally raised the rent. The rent will get put back to the previous level and if you then try to evict them on other grounds it will look like youre trying to do this to get another tenant at higher rent.

rightmove

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Rent under the counter is a trap.

You accept it and then they'll say you illegally raised the rent. The rent will get put back to the previous level and if you then try to evict them on other grounds it will look like youre trying to do this to get another tenant at higher rent.

Yep I would be totally snookering myself even if the offer was genuine

rightmove

the_syco wrote: »

Speak to your solicitor about demanding the full amount owed, including any historic debt. You say it's nearly a month late at this stage? Fcuk it. Get the solicitor to write the letter asking for the full amount that you're owed now, and do the 14 days notice. Get them out, and get someone in that will pay on time.


If your house is in the RPZ area, their plan may have been to pay you a few months, and then stop paying you, threatening to report you to the RTB for illegally going over the RPZ limit.

Put in the new notice and warning letter. If they don't reconcile I might go the route of 1 month eviction for non payment. I see from the Indo the gov are now chasing ll who switched to air bnb. Happy if I just get the place back at this stage

rightmove

rightmove wrote: »

Put in the new notice and warning letter. If they don't reconcile I might go the route of 1 month eviction for non payment. I see from the Indo the gov are now chasing ll who switched to air bnb. Happy if I just get the place back at this stage

14 days are up and not a bean. Going to ask them to double pay the rent which is due in a few days or we will go with 28day termination. It's almost like they want to be kicked out. I can't figure it out tbh

Browney7

rightmove wrote: »

14 days are up and not a bean. Going to ask them to double pay the rent which is due in a few days or we will go with 28day termination. It's almost like they want to be kicked out. I can't figure it out tbh

But even if they pay you, you a going to terminate the tenancy under a different ground (as is your right!).

Tenant is faced with a situation that if they pay, they'll be evicted anyway so have probably rationalised to themselves they may as well not bother paying now at all (may aswell be hung for a sheep than a lamb line of thinking).

My guess is they'll stay six months or more and then disappear when the writing is truly on the wall.

rightmove

Browney7 wrote: »

But even if they pay you, you a going to terminate the tenancy under a different ground (as is your right!).

Tenant is faced with a situation that if they pay, they'll be evicted anyway so have probably rationalised to themselves they may as well not bother paying now at all (may aswell be hung for a sheep than a lamb line of thinking).

My guess is they'll stay six months or more and then disappear when the writing is truly on the wall.

Yep they are not due out until Jan 2019. But surely it's in their interest not to be out in 28 days from now. ? I can't see their logic. Although the facts might support your point. So I do appreciate it

dudara

How will you physically make sure they’re out in 28 days? You can’t physically evict them, but will instead have to use the RTB process, all the while they can sit there overholding. You’re relying on them being law-abidin citizens who will move when told. Unfortunately, that’s not always the case.

Hopefully I’m wrong and they will be gone in 28 days.

rightmove

dudara wrote: »

How will you physically make sure they’re out in 28 days? You can’t physically evict them, but will instead have to use the RTB process, all the while they can sit there overholding. You’re relying on them being law-abidin citizens who will move when told. Unfortunately, that’s not always the case.

Hopefully I’m wrong and they will be gone in 28 days.

I agree that I need to go through the channels but I just don't understand them. Late with rent and issued with 14 day notice which is ignored despite saying they are desperate to stay . Wouldn't it be more advantageous to get up to speed with rent which is well below market and use the long termination notice then bringing on a battle??now

rightmove

dudara wrote: »

How will you physically make sure they’re out in 28 days? You can’t physically evict them, but will instead have to use the RTB process, all the while they can sit there overholding. You’re relying on them being law-abidin citizens who will move when told. Unfortunately, that’s not always the case.

Hopefully I’m wrong and they will be gone in 28 days.

Also I am willing to give them one final chance and pay double this month. Just want things amicably

Claw Hammer

rightmove wrote: »

Also I am willing to give them one final chance and pay double this month. Just want things amicably

Nothing is going to be amicable from now on. Once you tell a tenant you want them out, the true nature of the tenant surfaces. You will always be a figure of hate and contempt for that tenant.

rightmove

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Nothing is going to be amicable from now on. Once you tell a tenant you want them out, the true nature of the tenant surfaces. You will always be a figure of hate and contempt for that tenant.

Funny thing about it was I was a tenant myself and notice served on me wasn't correct but I adhered and when I had issue moving 'll let me stay extra few weeks. No need for animosprtb etc. I think they are cutting off their nose dispute there face here

airy fairy

If I were you, while waiting for the 28 days, open a dispute with prtb as by the time you've got a date etc, it be weeks.
Unfortunately, the information from the likes of Threshold seems to be, you got notice, don't pay, pocket the money, by the time prtb, and court, sheriff appointed, etc you will have a good few months of free rent.
Hopefully they will see sense and move, but as I said before, the courts are full of dates for hearings of overstaying tenants, so time is on their side.
Someone else asked earlier could I make a post about my experience, and while I would love to, I'm not sure I have the time, nor the mindset.
Our process cost us over €15k in unpaid rent and court expenses, and my partner has suffered a breakdown over the whole thing.
I only hope the op has better tenants and will move on soon.

Ginger83

rightmove wrote: »

Also I am willing to give them one final chance and pay double this month. Just want things amicably

Yes but because you now want them out they know their next rent will be much higher.

I hope it works out for you.

Claw Hammer

rightmove wrote: »

Also I am willing to give them one final chance and pay double this month. Just want things amicably

There is no chance of them paying any more rent. You will just have to accept that you are never going to see another penny from them.

rightmove

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There is no chance of them paying any more rent. You will just have to accept that you are never going to see another penny from them.

You could be right. Rent arrears is related to constant slippage and they did pay knowing a new notice was coming as old one was invalid.

rightmove

rightmove wrote: »

You could be right. Rent arrears is related to constant slippage and they did pay knowing a new notice was coming as old one was invalid.

Although yes they ignored the 14 day warning and others before to get rent back in check

GGTrek

OP start your battle now. Make the calculations of exactly how much rent is due and issue the termination notice for rent arrears (calculate 29 days, not 28). At the same time immediately prepare also the own use termination notice, prepare the statutory declaration and make it sign by a solicitor on oath and serve it. In 28 days take the matter to RTB for overholding and ask to confirm validity of both notices. If your rent missing calculation are right you will get a determination order published in around 2-3 months from now with an order to vacate (worst case in early 2019) and then you take it from there or you can reach an agreement for their exit at the RTB adjudication hearing (always be prepared to negotiate).

I am always very willing to help other landlord that have been gamed by tenants with the help of Threshold, I hate the organization and its people, if you need any practical suggestion please PM me and I shall try to answer before Sunday. Best of luck, may I suggest you to take legal advice before serving the termination notices?