WARNING!!!! Mean Machines:World Series PS4

Wonda-Boy

Bought this game 3 days ago for the little fella from PSN, DL the game and its totally useless. Will not connect to the online servers to play so its basically an online game that will not connect online. Has not worked in a week now even though I emailed sony the following day saying I wanted a refund.

Next day I send PSN an email saying game is broke I would like a refund. Got an email back saying I am not eligible for a refund as I have already downloaded the game!!!! Yes, thats right I downloaded the game so I am no eligible for a refund.....ONLY IN IRELAND I AM TELLING YOU.

Rang them just now and they said because I DL the game and played it (which I have not as the fookin thing will not connect online) I am not getting a refund and if I have a problem get a refund off code masters!!!

I told them I bought the game off sony not codemasters and that they are in fact selling a game that is faulty and my point of purchase is with them.

Point blank refused my requests and told me to deal with code masters END OFF.

Absolutely shocking from sony....really is.

verycool

Could you try using the online form to request a refund? Worth a shot.

https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/get-help/help-library/store---transactions/payments---refunds/playstation-store-cancellation-policy/

Also, looks like it hasn't been getting favourable reviews (the wiki article mentioned the spotty online multiplayer)

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/micro-machines-world-series

Oh... hang on...

https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/legal/playstation-store-and-sony-entertainment-network-store-cancellation-policy/

You can cancel a digital content purchase within 14 days from the date of transaction, provided that you have not started downloading or streaming it.

Digital content that you have started downloading, streaming and in-game consumables that have been delivered, are not eligible for a refund unless the content is faulty.

Wonda-Boy

I did try already but no joy, When I sent the email I had to ring them directly as I was getting now where.....

They are in direct breech of their own terms as you rightly quoted!

Digital content that you have started to download are not eligible UNLESS FAULTY. No servers since I bought game and apparently since after launch only working when they feel like it.

Gonna have to look into this further, I requested a supervisor to ring me back but I doubt they will.

Retr0gamer

Have you stressed the fact that the game is faulty to them and quoted their own terms to them? I downloaded a game before and filled out the refund form as it was a garbage version of the metal slug games and they refunded me in good faith.

Wonda-Boy

Yep, did all that.

Just a warning not to buy it in general to anyone thinking of getting it, its slashed from €30 to €9 and in hindsight good reason!!!!

Just gobsmacked at Sonys position, I mean at the end of the day for the sake of €9 I will never buy a thing off the PSN store from now onwards and will tell everyone I meet how ****e the service is.

My only chance of a refund is if a senior person rings me back and has a bit of cop on and sees the fiasco for what it is. But I they are selling that game now for ages in that state.

Retr0gamer

I'd escalate it to someone senior. The game quite clearly isn't fit for purpose so even outside of Sony's refund policy it goes against EU and Irish consumer rights policy (which trumps any policy Sony may have put on their service).

Contact the CPCC for advise maybe?

K.O.Kiki

Aside: this is yet another reason I'm glad that competition exists on the PC side.

GOG & Steam let you decide whether the game works or not AFTER downloading & installing it.

Shiminay

This sorta nonsense made me very wary of getting a PlayStation for a long time, very disappointing. But Non-European companies have a long history of ignoring European law - be it data protection, digital sales or a host of other areas. This, however is total horsesht since Sony's walled garden is Irish specific, so should at a bare minimum adhere to local laws if it's been set up as a local operation. Hit up the PlayStation Ireland Twitter account: https://twitter.com/PlayStationIE and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SonyPlayStationIreland/ and make a lot of noise. Be respectful though, don't give them an opportunity to block you.

dreamers75

This is why I dont buy Codemasters games anymore

Potential-Monke

Bang off this email to them:

Dear sir/madam,

On [insert date] I purchased Mean Machines: World Series via Digital Download from the PlayStation Store. After downloading the game, it is not playable due to known server issues. I have not been able to start a single game. This game is not fit for purpose. As per your own policy, I am requesting a refund on this purchase:

https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/legal/playstation-store-and-sony-entertainment-network-store-cancellation-policy/

I am also requesting this refund under Section 3 of the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980, which states goods or services sold must be fit for purpose, of which this game is not.

I look forward to hearing from ye,

Regards,

XXX

Wonda-Boy

Yeah lads, trust me I am no pushover when it comes to getting what I am entitled to but Sony are a disgrace. I was told point blank that unless I get correspondence from code masters saying the servers are no longer online it has nothing to do with Sony. I have spoken to 2 so called senior people and no dice......

I emailed codemasters and they did sent me an email saying that the way the game is currently processing server requests is not working and that a minor patch is being released today so we see what happens with the game. At least the game will be working if said patch is released even if Sony are a disgrace.

Retr0gamer

Well what they are doing is illegal and goes against consumer law. The game was purchased from Sony therefore the contract is between you and Sony, the manufacturer/producer/publisher etc. has nothing to do with it.

A lot of companies are pulling this nonsense lately. It's more cost effective to annoy and frustrate the customer as much as possible in the hopes that they abandon the request. The customer is always right as no meaning anymore and basic customer service is a joke. Nothing will change until this is enforced.

Wonda-Boy

Game was updated server side after I contacted codemasters, I am sure they were gonna do it anyway I really dont think they went ahead and did if for little old me!!!!

But game is working now but issue still remains with Sony, I have left messages on facebook and twitter and emailed them again.

callaway92

I assume this is Micro Machines and not Mean Machines?

Wonda-Boy

Soz mate yeah, Micro Machines World Series.

corcaigh07

If you used a Credit Card, go through your bank and ask for a chargeback. For a small amount, Sony would be unlikely to defend it.

corcaigh07

corcaigh07 wrote:

If you used a Credit Card, go through your bank and ask for a chargeback. For a small amount, Sony would be unlikely to defend it.

Do a chargeback and they will ban your account and rightly so.

corcaigh07

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do a chargeback and they will ban your account and rightly so.

Fair enough but why rightly so? He didn’t receive his goods in a satisfactory manner and hasn’t received anything through regular channels, deserves a chargeback in any other industry.

corcaigh07

corcaigh07 wrote:

Fair enough but why rightly so? He didn’t receive his goods in a satisfactory manner and hasn’t received anything through regular channels, deserves a chargeback in any other industry.

Do a chargeback and you get to keep your game and get your money back. Same thing happens with amazon and others. Anyone advocating a charge back in a situation such as this should be ignored.

I had to speak with Sony recently in ration to a refund on a game of played and had issues with, they did it immediately. If you're messaging them on Facebook and twitter then you are not getting a fast answer, only way to get this sorted is speak with live support and be firm but nice.

EoinHef

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do a chargeback and you get to keep your game and get your money back. Same thing happens with amazon and others. Anyone advocating a charge back in a situation such as this should be ignored.

I had to speak with Sony recently in ration to a refund on a game of played and had issues with, they did it immediately. If you're messaging them on Facebook and twitter then you are not getting a fast answer, only way to get this sorted is speak with live support and be firm but nice.

So how would a person get satisfaction then?

Your solution doesnt always work,as proven in this thread,if you read it. What if the seller just says no then ignores you? Facebook and twitter and not part of the consumer rights mechanism

The consumer is supposed to be the one at a loss?

I wouldnt do a charge back in this case because of the account ban but its a valid method of getting satisfaction.

So imo,your talking rubbish

EoinHef

EoinHef wrote:

So imo,your talking rubbish

How am I talking rubbish, a charge back on any online service or site will result in a ban. People advocating doing so are providing misinformation and yes you may get you 20 euro back but then lose an account worth much more.

EoinHef

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How am I talking rubbish, a charge back on any online service or site will result in a ban. People advocating doing so are providing misinformation and yes you may get you 20 euro back but then lose an account worth much more.

What if its a €1000 purchase?

I agreed in this situation it would be too risky but to ignore something that there as an insurance to the consumer because retailers are online is rubbish imo. Retailers will soon get the message and realise banning people when they were in the wrong is a bad idea.

Amazon ban you just open a new account

Wonda-Boy

I have already sent 2 support emails and no joy with the entry level support, I have spoken to a supervisor and again no joy.....I have been as aggressive as the situation demands without being insulting and Sony dont give a rats TBH.

Penn

EoinHef wrote: »

What if its a €1000 purchase?

I agreed in this situation it would be too risky but to ignore something that there as an insurance to the consumer because retailers are online is rubbish imo. Retailers will soon get the message and realise banning people when they were in the wrong is a bad idea.

Amazon ban you just open a new account

If it's a €1000 purchase then I'd judge that to be worth more than your account and all you'd lose by doing a chargeback.

Either way, the PSN T&C are clear. If you do a chargeback on a PSN purchase, your account is gone. I don't even know if it's automatic or someone pressing a button, but it's automatic with no recourse.

Respectfully Wonda Boy, if the problem with the game was something to do with the servers on Codemaster's side, and they've released a patch to fix it, at this stage I don't know what you expect them to do. Yes, they should have refunded your account and deleted the game when you first flagged the issue as there was a significant issue with the game. But at this stage, the issue has been resolved and the game is working.

Potential-Monke

@Wonda-Boy, if you have tried email, chat and calls, lodge a complaint with the CCPC, they will contact Playstation on your behalf and if they can't get a resolution they will bring the case further under European Law:

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/how-to-complain/

EoinHef

EoinHef wrote: »

What if its a €1000 purchase?

I agreed in this situation it would be too risky but to ignore something that there as an insurance to the consumer because retailers are online is rubbish imo. Retailers will soon get the message and realise banning people when they were in the wrong is a bad idea.

Amazon ban you just open a new account

Huge difference between a €1000 and a €10 one. A chargeback on an item costing €1000 may well be worth it but on one as small as a tenner is it worth losing your content?

What if your Amazon account is linked to your Kindle? What if when they block your account they block your credit card too or add your address to a list of blocked ones? It's all well and good to advocate a chargeback but if you are not ensuring that people know the risks then you are willfully giving out malicious advice.

Wonda-Boy

Penn wrote: »

If it's a €1000 purchase then I'd judge that to be worth more than your account and all you'd lose by doing a chargeback.

Either way, the PSN T&C are clear. If you do a chargeback on a PSN purchase, your account is gone. I don't even know if it's automatic or someone pressing a button, but it's automatic with no recourse.

Respectfully Wonda Boy, if the problem with the game was something to do with the servers on Codemaster's side, and they've released a patch to fix it, at this stage I don't know what you expect them to do. Yes, they should have refunded your account and deleted the game when you first flagged the issue as there was a significant issue with the game. But at this stage, the issue has been resolved and the game is working.

Thats not the point its the principal of the matter, when I and 4 others purchased the game it definitely was not suitable for purchase....the game was broken. That needed to be resolved by PSN straight away, not telling me to contact the game developers, they have a duty of care to make sure 100% that any game they are selling on PSN works the minute you download it.

So when I contacted them (less then 24hrs after purchase) they should have refunded me, its that simple.

Yes, the game is working now after I and the other lads emailed codemasters but should I have to do that after every game I buy if its not working?

If you downloaded a huge AAA game off PSN and it was still not working after a week your perspective would be different I tell you.

AFWIW, I dont expect PSN to do anything now as the game is working but I expect my rights to be adhered to when I bought the game.

I am no longer looking for a refund, but Sony are gone down in my estimations and should be treating people better.

Wonda-Boy

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Thats not the point its the principal of the matter, when I and 4 others purchased the game it definitely was not suitable for purchase....the game was broken. That needed to be resolved by PSN straight away, not telling me to contact the game developers, they have a duty of care to make sure 100% that any game they are selling on PSN works the minute you download it.

Sony sold you a working game, it's not their responsibility if the servers for the game are having issues. There are no issues with the Micro Machines the game, the issues stem from the fact that Codemasters don't give a damn about supporting it and are happy to let it die as they are handing back the mobile rights to Hasbro pretty soon, August 14th I believe.

Potential-Monke

Deleted User wrote: »

Sony sold you a working game, it's not their responsibility if the servers for the game are having issues. There are no issues with the Micro Machines the game, the issues stem from the fact that Codemasters don't give a damn about supporting it and are happy to let it die as they are handing back the mobile rights to Hasbro pretty soon, August 14th I believe.

But as a consumer buying the product direct from Sony through PSN, the contract is between you and Sony. They shouldn't be selling a game that don't work!

Potential-Monke

Potential-Monke wrote:

But as a consumer buying the product direct from Sony through PSN, the contract is between you and Sony. They shouldn't be selling a game that don't work!

But the game works fine, people just have issues with it when servers are down. It's like holding Don't responsible when a third party publisher shuts down servers. I can't play FIFA 14 online, does Sony owe me refund?

Penn

Deleted User wrote: »

But the game works fine, people just have issues with it when servers are down. It's like holding Don't responsible when a third party publisher shuts down servers. I can't play FIFA 14 online, does Sony owe me refund?

In fairness, if the game was no longer offering online play but online play was still listed as a feature on PSN, then yes I'd think Sony would owe you a refund in that case.

However, in this case online play is still available but wasn't available temporarily due to an issue with the servers which has now been rectified. As such, Sony wouldn't owe you a refund.

There wasn't a problem with the game itself and if it was sold as advertised (eg. not including features in the description which were no longer available or removed from the game), then Sony would not be required to issue a refund. The problem was just an available feature rendered temporarily unavailable until a patch fixed it.

Potential-Monke

I missed the post about the online working now. That is different.

Wonda-Boy

Deleted User wrote: »

Sony sold you a working game, it's not their responsibility if the servers for the game are having issues. There are no issues with the Micro Machines the game, the issues stem from the fact that Codemasters don't give a damn about supporting it and are happy to let it die as they are handing back the mobile rights to Hasbro pretty soon, August 14th I believe.

You are so wrong my friend, go onto the codemasters forum and read the micro machines thread. The game has be FUBR since launch, and still glitched to bits.

But as I said, water off a ducks back at this stage.

Wonda-Boy

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

You are so wrong my friend, go onto the codemasters forum and read the micro machines thread. The game has be FUBR since launch, and still glitched to bits.

But as I said, water off a ducks back at this stage.

No one is saying that there are not issues with the game, anyone who has played it will realise this but the point is that these issues are server based.

It's like buying an iPod and then finding out that iTunes is not working due to server issues, do you bring it back to Currys who you bought it from or is it Apple's issues?

Wonda-Boy

So you did not read the forums then, the issues are far from server based.

:rolleyes:

Wonda-Boy

Wonda-Boy wrote:

So you did not read the forums then, the issues are far from server based.

Maybe in future then read the feedback for a game before purchasing it. I wanted to get MM awhile back but knowing Codemasters read up on it first and opted not to get it. 90% of the issues affecting the game relate to issues with the servers.


No matter if the game works or not, it is not Sony's responsibility to ensure that, it is the publishers. If you buy the disc and have the same issues would it be Sony's issue to sort out.

EoinHef

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Maybe in future then read the feedback for a game before purchasing it. I wanted to get MM awhile back but knowing Codemasters read up on it first and opted not to get it. 90% of the issues affecting the game relate to issues with the servers.


No matter if the game works or not, it is not Sony's responsibility to ensure that, it is the publishers. If you buy the disc and have the same issues would it be Sony's issue to sort out.

Its not the consumers job to make sure a product is fit for purpose. Is the sellers.

If a disc version was bought its the store that sold it that would be responsible.

Sony sold the game on their online store making your contract of sale with them.

Maybe you could drop the Sony bias for 5 seconds and look at it objectively?

EoinHef

EoinHef wrote:

Maybe you could drop the Sony bias for 5 seconds and look at it objectively?

I'm not on anyone's side, just pointing out that Sony are not the responsible party here. If you buy an iPod and discover that one if the third party apps doesn't work as it should, is that apples fault? If you buy a game in GameStop and take it back citing the bugs present in the game and issues with the server you ain't getting a refund.

EoinHef

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not on anyone's side, just pointing out that Sony are not the responsible party here. If you buy an iPod and discover that one if the third party apps doesn't work as it should, is that apples fault? If you buy a game in GameStop and take it back citing the bugs present in the game and issues with the server you ain't getting a refund.

Ive twice brought games back to stores when the online wasnt working and got a refund.

Once from xtra vision and once from game. Games are no different to any other software,it has to be fit for described purpose.

Sony is a retailer with the online store,in this country that means they have a responsibility to make sure the products they sell are fit for purpose.

If i buy a game on steam and it doesnt work do i apply to the developer to get a refund or steam? The answer is steam provide me with the refund as they are the retailer.

EoinHef

EoinHef wrote:

If i buy a game on steam and it doesnt work do i apply to the developer to get a refund or steam? The answer is steam provide me with the refund as they are the retailer.

So will Sony if the game isn't working, I've got refunds from them in the past. MM as a game runs fine but CM don't care and have crippled it through neglect. The game still runs, just not very well. Servers are a joke and they're retiring support for the game on August.

EoinHef

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So will Sony if the game isn't working, I've got refunds from them in the past. MM as a game runs fine but CM don't care and have crippled it through neglect. The game still runs, just not very well. Servers are a joke and they're retiring support for the game on August.

But they have refused wonda in this case. If the game is a mess Sony really should withdraw it from sale on their store. If its not as advertised,ie broken online,its not fit for purpose.

FAILSAFE 00

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Bought this game 3 days ago for the little fella from PSN, DL the game and its totally useless. Will not connect to the online servers to play so its basically an online game that will not connect online. Has not worked in a week now even though I emailed sony the following day saying I wanted a refund.

Next day I send PSN an email saying game is broke I would like a refund. Got an email back saying I am not eligible for a refund as I have already downloaded the game!!!! Yes, thats right I downloaded the game so I am no eligible for a refund.....ONLY IN IRELAND I AM TELLING YOU.

Rang them just now and they said because I DL the game and played it (which I have not as the fookin thing will not connect online) I am not getting a refund and if I have a problem get a refund off code masters!!!

I told them I bought the game off sony not codemasters and that they are in fact selling a game that is faulty and my point of purchase is with them.

Point blank refused my requests and told me to deal with code masters END OFF.

Absolutely shocking from sony....really is.

Its horrible to see to gamers getting taken like this, especially when Steam and Xbox are giving refunds and are being very pro-consumer.

I am actually shocked that PlayStation are not violating some laws by doing this.

It doesn't even make sense. Why bite the hands that feeds you.
I wish the PlayStation community would rally against nonsense like this. Its a huge community of millions so PlayStation would be forced to listen and take action.

kunst nugget

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So will Sony if the game isn't working, I've got refunds from them in the past. MM as a game runs fine but CM don't care and have crippled it through neglect. The game still runs, just not very well. Servers are a joke and they're retiring support for the game on August.

Sony operate a closed market online so any complaints and refunds should go through them. Considering how mercenary they can be if you attempt a chargeback, they really should be showing more good will if a customer had an issue with a game. It is crappy on their part and they should really be on the ball of there are issues with games they are selling on their marketplace. There really is no defending them.

EoinHef

EoinHef wrote:

But they have refused wonda in this case. If the game is a mess Sony really should withdraw it from sale on their store. If its not as advertised,ie broken online,its not fit for purpose.

We have no idea why they refused, I have had three games refunded by Sony over the past year. And anyone who think that Steam or Xbox is some shining example of consumer friendliness is misguided.

Are Sony responsible for when FIFA has issues, should they withdraw the game from sale whenever there is down time or offer refunds to anyone who buys it and then can't play because something they don't control is having issues? They offer sub's to Netflix on the PSN, should they offer money back to people when Netflix goes down?

kunst nugget

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Its horrible to see to gamers getting taken like this, especially when Steam and Xbox are giving refunds and are being very pro-consumer.

I am actually shocked that PlayStation are not violating some laws by doing this.

It doesn't even make sense. Why bite the hands that feeds you.
I wish the PlayStation community would rally against nonsense like this. Its a huge community of millions so PlayStation would be forced to listen and take action.

Hmm, are you just posting here to continue bickering with Darko?

kunst nugget

kunst nugget wrote:

Sony operate a closed market online so any complaints and refunds should go through them. Considering how mercenary they can be if you attempt a chargeback, they really should be showing more good will if a customer had an issue with a game. It is crappy on their part and they should really be on the ball of there are issues with games they are selling on their marketplace. There really is no defending them.

Any complaints at all, so I have issues with a bug in Assassins Creed, is that something for Sony as they provided the game though an online purchase? Do I need to get money back from MS because I lost 12 hours of Agents of Mayhem 2 due to a game breaking bug on the Xbox?

EoinHef

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We have no idea why they refused, I have had three games refunded by Sony over the past year. And anyone who think that Steam or Xbox is some shining example of consumer friendliness is misguided.

Are Sony responsible for when FIFA has issues, should they withdraw the game from sale whenever there is down time or offer refunds to anyone who buys it and then can't play because something they don't control is having issues? They offer sub's to Netflix on the PSN, should they offer money back to people when Netflix goes down?

I cant speak for Xbox but Steam has a much better and more transparent refund system so in this sense its way better than Sony's. Relying on Sonys good will rather than your rights is not always going to work.

The second part is a strawman,the MM's game is an online game which could not be played online. Thats different to a small glitch or bug in a game.

And if netflix is down i have a right to ask for a refund yes. Or at least compensation like my renew date being pushed out by the amount of time ive lost.

FAILSAFE 00

kunst nugget wrote: »

Sony operate a closed market online so any complaints and refunds should go through them. Considering how mercenary they can be if you attempt a chargeback, they really should be showing more good will if a customer had an issue with a game. It is crappy on their part and they should really be on the ball of there are issues with games they are selling on their marketplace. There really is no defending them.

I agree. Its completely indefensible.

Everywhere I look people are having an awful time trying to get a refund on the PlayStation store for what would be considered completely justifiable reasons.

Then to top it off closing peoples accounts for doing a charge back seems very low. Its designed to make sure the customer is punished.

The worst example I've seen at the moment is Lawbreakers.
PlayStation aren't refunding people who purchased the game and worse yet they are still selling the game on the PlayStation store even though they know the company is shutting down :eek:

When I buy another PlayStation I won't be buying digital. Its just too risky. I'll stick with the game discs.

Steam's refund policy is very new and up until recently was one of the most restrictive and consumer unfriendly out there.

I think altogether I've got 5 games refunded from Sony and it was never a problem. Once I had an issue with a refusal
and I just ended that call and rang back where upon a second adviser refunded me.





It's not really, if you buy a non Sony game it is not their responsibility to ensure the servers are up and running.

What you and others are saying is that any issue you run into with a third party title purchased on the PSN is Sony's responsibility? When the servers are turned off on say Pro Evo 16, should Sony offer a refund to anyone who bought it digitally as the online aspect is the biggest parr of the game? Should Sony refund any gamer who bought Battleborne digitally given that the game is dead?

I think that Sony can be quit crap but so can Steam and Xbox, at the same time Sony can't be held responsible for issues with third party games just because you purchased them on the PSN. After all, people seem to think that buying digitally is the same as purchasing a disc. It's not, when you buy digitally you are buying access to a title and you can bet that the ToS cover them.





But do go to to Sony for that refund as they facilitate Netflix on the PSN?

EoinHef

Of course its their responsibility as well as the developers. Should they take a cut of sales but have zero responsibility for anything they sell? Surely you could see how that could be abused

Id go to the retailer i paid the subscription to as thats where my contract of sale is,as per my consumer rights.

I feel ive stated this now a few times.

EoinHef

EoinHef wrote:

Of course its their responsibility as well as the developers. Should they take a cut of sales but have zero responsibility for anything they sell? Surely you could see how that could be abused

So you think Sony should refund Battleborne customers now that the game is dead even though they had nothing to so with it? Also maybe read the terms and conditions you agree to when buying a digital game.