Dalkey to Greystones - Major Rail Alterations Due to Fire

Infini

Just a heads up.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/train-line-from-dalkey-to-greystones-closed-for-entire-weekend-after-fire-damages-signalling-equipment-36923720.html

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/service-alert

Fire broke out in the signalling equipment room in Bray damaging the equipment so nothing till Monday at the earliest guys.

dublinman1990

Oh no. That's very bad news. The signalling equipment installed in Bray was only brand new equipment to cater for the new 10 minute DART service. It all depends now from Irish Rail on how much damage was caused to the equipment & how much time it would need to be repaired or replaced if it's necessary.

Rush hour between Greystones & Dublin from at least Monday onwards will be hell for those going through it.

Infini

Updates

Monday 21st to Friday 25th May

Full DART service will operate between Howth/Malahide and Dalkey.
No rail services between Greystones and Bray.
A limited bus transfer will be available between Greystones and Bray for DART services.
A bus transfer will be provided between Greystones and Bray/Dun Laoghaire/Dublin Connolly for Rosslare/Wexford-Dublin services
Reduced timetable, capacity and journey time between Bray and Dalkey.
Journey time Bray to Dalkey is 30 minutes serving Killiney (+20 mins) and Shankill (+25 mins)
Morning peak:
DART services from Bray:
06.30 Bray to Howth
07.00 Bray to Howth
07.30 Bray to Connolly
08.00 Bray to Connolly
08.30 Bray to Connolly
Southbound DART services will terminate in Dalkey during morning peak
Off-peak daytime
A DART service between Bray and Dalkey will operate as follows:
09.00, 10.00, 11.00, 12.00, 13.00, 14.00, 15.00, 16.00 Bray to Dalkey
09.30, 10.30, 11.30, 12.30, 13.30, 14.30, 15.30, 16.30 Dalkey to Bray
Evening peak
DART services to Bray:
16.05 Malahide to Bray (departs Dalkey 17.00, arrives Bray 17.30)
16.45 Howth to Bray (departs Dalkey 17.41, arrives Bray 18.10)
17.15 Howth to Bray (departs Dalkey 18.16, arrives Bray 18.45)
18.00 Howth to Bray (departs Dalkey 19.00, arrives Bray 19.30)
18.45 Howth to Bray (departs Dalkey 18.41, arrives Bray 20.10)
Northbound DART services will start from Dalkey during evening peak
After evening peak
No DART services Dalkey to Bray to allow repair works to signalling equipement to take place.
DART services will operate between Dalkey and Howth/Malahide

Jamie2k9

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Oh no. That's very bad news. The signalling equipment installed in Bray was only brand new equipment to cater for the new 10 minute DART service. It all depends now from Irish Rail on how much damage was caused to the equipment & how much time it would need to be repaired or replaced if it's necessary.

Rush hour between Greystones & Dublin from at least Monday onwards will be hell for those going through it.

Those DART drivers would do anything to stop the 10 minute DART happening :rolleyes:

Stephen15

I'm not a railway or engineering expert but surely IE should have some sort of backup signalling system and equipment for instances like this if possible. If it is possible surely it's about time they invested in one to prevent incidents like this happening again. This is probably the worst period of disruption since the collapse of Broadmeadow.

markpb

Stephen15 wrote: »

I'm not a railway or engineering expert but surely IE should have some sort of

fire extinguisher. What you meant to say is that they should have bought a fire extinguisher for a critical piece of infrastructure.

goingnowhere

Exactly there should have been an automatic fire suppression system fitted, bog standard in any equipment room these days

patrickbrophy18

What bugs me is that they are using the existing offering of bus services as a substitute for the lack of service between Dalkey and Bray during these times.


It still doesn't change the fact that people wishing to go to Bray or Greystones from Dalkey have to change in Dun Laoghaire to get there. The lack of proper contingency in these circumstances is laughable.


For the sake of those affected for tomorrow and the rest of the work week, I really hope that this line closure is resolved quickly.

devnull

goingnowhere wrote: »

Exactly there should have been an automatic fire suppression system fitted, bog standard in any equipment room these days

Pretty unbelievable if there wasn't any equipment like this, even for Irish Rail.

XPS_Zero

goingnowhere wrote: »

Exactly there should have been an automatic fire suppression system fitted, bog standard in any equipment room these days

Not sure how much you know about Irelands semi-states, but with the exception of ESB incompetence is their most well known trait, followed quickly by inefficiency. They will always do things the least rational, least logical, least efficient, least customer friendly way of all available options. Someone who worked in Seamus Brennans office told me about how terrible they were years ago, and I thought he was just a right wing loon who wanted to privatize everything. There was no way they could be THAT incompetent - experience has taught me better. When WIFI was becoming standard and was proposed IE originally said they would not install it because 'sure that equipment would have to be updated every few years that technology is moving so fast'....yes really that was their reason....really.




Couple this with Irelands general attitude to crises management:

• It won't happen to us in little old Ireland
• If it does the British and American (and their taxpayers) will help us so why be prepared ourselves
• Put all the eggs in one basket.

Take a couple of obvious examples, from minor emergencies to major:
1. Look at Luas even, a much better reputation and they'd only one control centre with no backups


2. The office of emergency planning and National Emergency CoOrdination Centre were only set up after 9/11 in a panic and while they were thankfully allowed do some excellent planning for pandemics (probably the most likley thing to ever hit Ireland as unlike wars they don't respect borders) they were allowed do little else despite having great suggestions.


3. If a hyjacked aircraft or out of control aircraft like the Greek jet a few years ago was in our airspace we've no way to intercept it because we have no interceptor jets. We actually have an executive agreement with the UK to allow the RAF enter our airspace in such circumstances and do it for us which is really embarrassing, and will be moreso if they can't get there in time considering how far the nearest RAF base with interceptors is from us.


4. Our national parliament and government buildings, despite numerous examples of them being attacked in other countries including European countries, by terrorists, has no armed protection whatsoever, a few determined gunmen could get past the lone unarmed cop at the gates and decapitate our entire govt during a cabinet meeting with ease.


5. Look at the travel disruption during the Volcano ash cloud a few years ago, there was no joined up thinking, even when they changed train times to intersect with ferries they left i think it was 15 minutes for people to race from the ferry to the train.


We don't plan for emergencies here we have a shockingly complacent attitude to disaster planning, combine that with CIEs general incompetence and you get things like this.

Jamie2k9

Take a couple of obvious examples, from minor emergencies to major:
1. Look at Luas even, a much better reputation and they'd only one control centre with no backups

Luas have secondary control rooms but after the last storm they couldn't run a service....

Exactly there should have been an automatic fire suppression system fitted, bog standard in any equipment room these days

Is it considered industry practice within rail industry, such faults are extremely rare. Not been in one of these rooms but the logistics of a fire system would be difficult particularly as many are remote.

What bugs me is that they are using the existing offering of bus services as a substitute for the lack of service between Dalkey and Bray during these times.


It still doesn't change the fact that people wishing to go to Bray or Greystones from Dalkey have to change in Dun Laoghaire to get there. The lack of proper contingency in these circumstances is laughable.


For the sake of those affected for tomorrow and the rest of the work week, I really hope that this line closure is resolved quickly.

Difficult to get an operator to run such a short shuttle other than DB.

Stephen15

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

What bugs me is that they are using the existing offering of bus services as a substitute for the lack of service between Dalkey and Bray during these times.


It still doesn't change the fact that people wishing to go to Bray or Greystones from Dalkey have to change in Dun Laoghaire to get there. The lack of proper contingency in these circumstances is laughable.


For the sake of those affected for tomorrow and the rest of the work week, I really hope that this line closure is resolved quickly.

There should be an increased frequency on the 45a and the 145 at very the least if not a rail replacement bus. You could use both DB and privates many of which use ex DB vehicles which would be suitable although Killiney Station would inaccessible by bus.

I was on the 145 yesterday early afternoon unaware of the IE disruption and was wondering the bus the packed unsually for a Saturday around 12.30pm and there was over a 20 minute gap until the next one. Completely unacceptable there should be extra DB resources put out for instances like this.

loyatemu

I assume DB have most of their fleet on the road during rush hour already so not much scope for extra services.

Is there some reason they can't run a shuttle between Bray and Greystones? A single train running along a single line doesn't need signals.

Stephen15

loyatemu wrote: »

I assume DB have most of their fleet on the road during rush hour already so not much scope for extra services.

Is there some reason they can't run a shuttle between Bray and Greystones? A single train running along a single line doesn't need signals.

During rush hour yes but there could be a scope for services off peak and over the weekend.

Obvious safety reasons to prevent a head on collision I would imagine.

dublinman1990

Updated press release from IE is up on the website.

Sun 20th to Fri 25th May - Dalkey to Greystones: major service alterations due to signalling equipment fire damage

19 May 2018

Disruption will continue throughout week

Iarnród Éireann advises customers that due to fire damage to signalling equipment at Bray on Friday 18th May, major disruption is continuing between Dalkey and Greystones until further notice.

Customers should note:

Sunday 20th May
DART services are suspended between Dalkey and Greystones. Dublin Bus will accept rail tickets. Customers should transfer to/from Dublin Bus services at Dun Laoghaire for affected areas
Dublin Connolly to Rosslare Europort services will have bus transfers between Connolly and Greystones
Monday 21st to Friday 25th May
Please check our journey planner above for all service details. In summary:

Full DART service will operate between Howth/Malahide and Dalkey.
No rail services between Greystones and Bray.
A limited bus transfer will be available between Greystones Station and Bray Station for DART services.
A bus transfer will be provided between Greystones Station and Bray/Dun Laoghaire/Dublin Connolly Stations for Rosslare/Wexford-Dublin services
Reduced timetable, capacity and journey time between Bray and Dalkey.
Journey time Bray to Dalkey is 30 minutes serving Killiney and Shankill
Morning peak - check journey planner above for full schedules:
Only DART services operating from Bray:
06.30 Bray to Howth
07.00 Bray to Howth
07.30 Bray to Connolly
08.00 Bray to Connolly
08.30 Bray to Connolly
Southbound DART services will terminate in Dalkey during morning peak
Off-peak daytime
A DART service between Bray and Dalkey will operate as follows:
09.00, 10.00, 11.00, 12.00, 13.00, 14.00, 15.00, 16.00 Bray to Dalkey
09.30, 10.30, 11.30, 12.30, 13.30, 14.30, 15.30, 16.30 Dalkey to Bray
Note these off-peak DARTs will operate between Bray and Dalkey only, please change DARTs for onward travel between Dalkey and Howth/Malahide
Evening peak
DART services to Bray:
16.05 Malahide to Bray (departs Dalkey 17.00, arrives Bray 17.30)
16.45 Howth to Bray (departs Dalkey 17.41, arrives Bray 18.10)
17.15 Howth to Bray (departs Dalkey 18.16, arrives Bray 18.45)
18.00 Howth to Bray (departs Dalkey 19.00, arrives Bray 19.30)
18.45 Howth to Bray (departs Dalkey 19.41, arrives Bray 20.10)
Northbound DART services will start from Dalkey during evening peak
After evening peak
No DART services Dalkey to Bray to allow repair works to signalling equipement to take place.
DART services will operate between Dalkey and Howth/Malahide
Customers should note Dublin Bus will continue to accept rail tickets at all times for journeys to/from areas south of Dalkey. Customers can connect to/from Dublin Bus services in city centre, Blackrock and Dun Laoghaire. Full details at www.dublinbus.ie

Iarnród Éireann apologises to customers for the inconvenience caused.

What I can't understand from that IE press release, a few posts above, is that the stretch of the DART line between Bray & Dalkey has a very restricted service running during off peak hours when also during that same period of the day; there is a full DART service running Howth/Malahide & Dalkey?

Is there any reason why IE would not be able to run a full DART service between Howth/Malahide to Bray only during the morning peak until the end of the evening peak from Monday to Friday? Would the damaged signalling equipment at Bray be subject to signal equipment inspections from during the day? Would the signalling equipment at Bray not be able to cope with running a full service for the remainder of the day until the end of the evening peak?

Would only 2 pairs of 2-carriage LHB DART units be enough for a PVR to cover the shuttle DART service between Bray & Dalkey?

goingnowhere

There is NO functioning signalling between Dalkey and Bray Head

Everything is being done manually with the points clamped so there is only a single route set

loyatemu

Stephen15 wrote: »

Obvious safety reasons to prevent a head on collision I would imagine.

no risk of collisions if there's only a single train on a single line, but I believe from Twitter than the Dart won't go any faster than 15km/h if it's not receiving signalling information so thats the reason for non-running.

GM228

loyatemu wrote: »

no risk of collisions if there's only a single train on a single line, but I believe from Twitter than the Dart won't go any faster than 15km/h if it's not receiving signalling information so thats the reason for non-running.

Coŕrect, without receiving a proceed ATP code the DART can go no faster than 15 km/h. It can only receive the code when the signals are showing proceed aspects which they obviously can't do.

The fire has knocked out everything which is interlocked with the signal system - the signal interlock itself, track circuits, point control and interlock, level crossing interlock, CAWS and ATP cdes etc.

Colonel Claptrap

XPS_Zero wrote: »

4. Our national parliament and government buildings, despite numerous examples of them being attacked in other countries including European countries, by terrorists, has no armed protection whatsoever, a few determined gunmen could get past the lone unarmed cop at the gates and decapitate our entire govt during a cabinet meeting with ease.

There is a permanent armed military presence on the Leinster House campus.

trellheim

Coŕrect, without receiving a proceed ATP code the DART can go no faster than 15 km/h. It can only receive the code when the signals are showing proceed aspects which they obviously can't do.

The fire has knocked out everything which is interlocked with the signal system - the signal interlock itself, track circuits, point control and interlock, level crossing interlock, CAWS and ATP cdes etc.

Disable ATP and obey flagmen at signal posts ? With clipped points Surely the Rulebook has a section on this kind of thing

Infini

In respect's at least there is something running between Bray and Dalkey at least in an emergency capacity. With no signals everything is essentially run manually and by hand, points locked so that they dont gape and derail a train, the bray L/C will have to be controlled locally and even turning trains around would require manually switching the points by hand unless the plan is to use a single line only. At least they're able to run something because services in the non affected areas's would otherwise be affected if they couldn't get anything out of Bray Depot and the only Darts available were from clontarf.

goingnowhere

All points are clamped and locked, the plan is single track use, northbound only to Dalkey

ATP is hardwired into the DART, there is an override but even with that in place you ain't going to move quicker than you can run.

trellheim

All points are clamped and locked, the plan is single track use, northbound only to Dalkey

but there's two tracks ? Why put in SLW ? or is it because of the LC's ?

Infini

trellheim wrote: »

but there's two tracks ? Why put in SLW ? or is it because of the LC's ?

Probably to keep the amount of manual interaction on the line to an absolute minimum to prevent the remote chance of a derailment or anything going wrong. With the whole signaling system down there no way of seeing what's on the line so only one train can run on that section regardless.

XPS_Zero

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

XPS_Zero wrote: »

4. Our national parliament and government buildings, despite numerous examples of them being attacked in other countries including European countries, by terrorists, has no armed protection whatsoever, a few determined gunmen could get past the lone unarmed cop at the gates and decapitate our entire govt during a cabinet meeting with ease.

There is a permanent armed military presence on the Leinster House campus.

I work there and I've never seen them - ever or heard of such a unit.  Where are they hiding?

Colonel Claptrap

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I work there and I've never seen them - ever or heard of such a unit.  Where are they hiding?

They are around the Merrion street side. I think there's a hut at the southern end. They raise and lower the tri colour at the memorial across the road in the park each day.

As far as I know they sleep overnight on campus, although I'm open to correction on that one.

Irish Steve

So, in the entire network, there isn't a spare diesel powered set that could operate from Dalkey to Bray (or Greystones even) without signalling? I'm all for safety systems, but a safety system that can't be disabled due to a major failure is questionable.

Jamie2k9

Irish Steve wrote: »

So, in the entire network, there isn't a spare diesel powered set that could operate from Dalkey to Bray (or Greystones even) without signalling? I'm all for safety systems, but a safety system that can't be disabled due to a major failure is questionable.

There is but prehaps not drivers and they still wouldn't clear running above 20-25mph

but there's two tracks ? Why put in SLW ? or is it because of the LC's ?

As the points are clamped, i.e they cannot be switched position it means running on both lines would require a train to operate in the right direction. Switching points when there is no signalling is an accident waiting to happen so hence why SLW is in place and only one train between both locations on one line following a single set of instructions.

Can't see the RSC allowing both lines operating with not signalling at all.

Stephen15

Irish Steve wrote: »

So, in the entire network, there isn't a spare diesel powered set that could operate from Dalkey to Bray (or Greystones even) without signalling? I'm all for safety systems, but a safety system that can't be disabled due to a major failure is questionable.

Issue is with the signalling not the overhead wires. So it wouldn't make a difference if the train was electric, diesel or steam.

goingnowhere

Irish Steve wrote: »

So, in the entire network, there isn't a spare diesel powered set that could operate from Dalkey to Bray (or Greystones even) without signalling? I'm all for safety systems, but a safety system that can't be disabled due to a major failure is questionable.

Thats the entire point of the system to not allow a human to bypass the system, most accidents happen because people bypass or otherwise circumvent systems.

DART has a perfect safety record because of the safety systems, two minor derailments in 34 years

cython

Stephen15 wrote: »

Issue is with the signalling not the overhead wires. So it wouldn't make a difference if the train was electric, diesel or steam.

If the below feature is specific to DART units, then it does actually make a potential difference.......

GM228 wrote: »

Coŕrect, without receiving a proceed ATP code the DART can go no faster than 15 km/h. It can only receive the code when the signals are showing proceed aspects which they obviously can't do.

The fire has knocked out everything which is interlocked with the signal system - the signal interlock itself, track circuits, point control and interlock, level crossing interlock, CAWS and ATP cdes etc.