Rent

Fol20

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

LL: I’m selling the house/apartment, you have 90 days to vacate.
Tenant: Ok
Landlord: *rents out apartment at a higher rent above the 4% allowed*

Aside from that, these vulture funds are buying off the plans and setting the rent.

I’m at a loss as to how your property is yielding less in 2018 than it did in 2013.

If the ll illegally evicts a tenant and then relets it again, the tenant can be in for nice pay check.

Let’s say you bought a place for 100k back in 2013 and let it out for 900. The same property now would retail for 240k and rent for about 1600. When you take into account the fact that it costed more than double to buy the place now along with 50pc in tax on profit. You can get an idea that yes the yield is worse.

frozenfrozen

I have recently said yes to a job in Spiddal and it looks like I will be paying 700 per month sharing with someone else from work

it's either go halves on something which is 1000 per month and it's a **** hole or pay the massive 700 each per month for somewhere at least some way decent. It's a big portion of my wages

the places in town with 5+ people sharing are only slightly better priced but it would cost more to drive out to spiddal etc. and the quality of life of probably sharing with students, and still having to drive 30 mins each way to work. The three bedroom places are priced inline with the 2 beds with 50% extra stuck on but you have the hassle of finding another person and maybe going a few months paying for an empty room. Yes all bills would end up being 1/3 rather than 1/2.

I found a place the other day and the woman said she was doing an open viewing on Thursday. got an email then to say sorry it wasn't up anymore. How much did someone slip her in a brown envelope to take the place.


It would be much cheaper to keep commuting from home in Bunratty. It was 15 euro diesel a day to commute out past Inverin which I did for 6 months.

thomas 123

thomas 123 wrote: »

............

I feel like we are the forgotten people anytime Im reading the news.
.............

I dunno what news you watch, the media is full of high rent, low supply, renters with no options etc etc etc

Doff

1. Have 7 kids
2. Sleep in Garda station
3. ????
4. Profit

Fol20

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

No one likes to talk about it, but immigration has been a huge factor in Irish property going crazy over the last 25 years. Unfortunately no one can point that out in polite company.

I’m all for protecting our own however the people that are immigrating to hear are highly skilled labour and add a lot of value to our economy. If you want to turn into the Japanese where they make it very difficult for other nationalities to move there, take a look at how well their economy is doing.

Airyfairy12

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

No one likes to talk about it, but immigration has been a huge factor in Irish property going crazy over the last 25 years. Unfortunately no one can point that out in polite company.

It certainly has, particularly in Dublin as theyre very willing to pay the extortionate high costs to live in city center in very cramped accommodation with low standards of living creating a demand for accommodation which is pushing prices up and standards down. That said its not all down to immigration as the landlords and government have the biggest part to play.

Fol20

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

It certainly has, particularly in Dublin as theyre very willing to pay the extortionate high costs to live in city center in very cramped accommodation with low standards of living creating a demand for accommodation which is pushing prices up and standards down. That said its not all down to immigration as the landlords and government have the biggest part to play.

The government have the biggest part to play here.

Landlords have no part whatsoever. It isnt social or moral, Its a business and like any other business you attempt to maximise profits. How would you like it if you worked your ass off in your career to get to where you are and then the government say actually no, your demanding too much in your salary and it is stifling our economy so were going to limit your salary to x amount. Are you going to be like, "yea thats sound fair, joe down the block who hasnt worked as hard as you or may not be working should be getting paid like me"

Lux23

Fol20 wrote: »

The government have the biggest part to play here.

Landlords have no part whatsoever. It isnt social or moral, Its a business and like any other business you attempt to maximise profits. How would you like it if you worked your ass off in your career to get to where you are and then the government say actually no, your demanding too much in your salary and it is stifling our economy so were going to limit your salary to x amount. Are you going to be like, "yea thats sound fair, joe down the block who hasnt worked as hard as you or may not be working should be getting paid like me"

I don't like it when IBEC or ISME say that at all.

Airyfairy12

Fol20 wrote: »

The government have the biggest part to play here.

Landlords have no part whatsoever. It isnt social or moral, Its a business and like any other business you attempt to maximise profits. How would you like it if you worked your ass off in your career to get to where you are and then the government say actually no, your demanding too much in your salary and it is stifling our economy so were going to limit your salary to x amount. Are you going to be like, "yea thats sound fair, joe down the block who hasnt worked as hard as you or may not be working should be getting paid like me"

I get it, its frustrating, ive a friend on over 1000 a week, a car a house and 3 holidays a year and hasnt worked more than a day in her life while im working full time and still trying to save enough money so I can learn how to drive.
The government doesnt help people who are trying to get ahead in life. Imagine a working class group having the want and means to work themselves up to a higher status, the government cant have that, its easier to keep the lower economics classes comfortable but the minute they try to better themselves the government makes it as difficult as possible. Thats one way to keep the class systems in check.
Only the rich can afford to live in Dublin and lead a decent quality of life, the poorer working class have to live in Dublin because jobs are scarce everywhere else. Its a system that keeps the rich rich and the poor poor. We're a neo liberal society and its only getting worse.

In the recession there was no shortage of housing. The government had little money to play with so building social housing etc wasn't really an option.

We are now in better economic times (yes, we are) and rents are high due to lower supply than there is demand. Not an easy problem to solve.

Renters, landlords, folks on RA, folk in social housing, folk on social housing waiting lists, employers, businesses, banks etc etc ......... at any one time at least 3 or 4 groups shall be moaning like fook, such is life.

Airyfairy12

Augeo wrote: »

In the recession there was no shortage of housing. The government had little money to play with so building social housing etc wasn't really an option.

We are now in better economic times (yes, we are) and rents are high due to lower supply than there is demand. Not an easy problem to solve.

Renters, landlords, folks on RA, folk in social housing, folk on social housing waiting lists, employers, businesses, banks etc etc ......... at any one time at least 3 or 4 groups shall be moaning like fook, such is life.

There are houses, there are literally hundreds of vacant houses in Dublin. The rest of the country's rent is creeping up too despite there being lots of accommodation. The problem is lack of affordable and livable accommodation. We're going back to Victorian slums.

Airyfairy12

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

There are houses, there are literally hundreds of vacant houses in Dublin. The rest of the country's rent is creeping up too despite there being lots of accommodation. The problem is lack of affordable and livable accommodation. We're going back to Victorian slums.

No, no we're not.
And your neo liberal society speel was well off the mark too. Ireland has a growing middle class for decades and that is continuing, it's never been easier to better yourself here.

Lux23

Augeo wrote: »

No, no we're not.
And your neo liberal society speel was well off the mark too. Ireland has a growing middle class for decades and that is continuing, it's never been easier to better yourself here.

A growing middle class that can't afford to rent a decent home? Are you renting yourself right now?

Airyfairy12

Augeo wrote: »

No, no we're not.
And your neo liberal society speel was well off the mark too. Ireland has a growing middle class for decades and that is continuing, it's never been easier to better yourself here.

Lol are you being serious? The gap between middle and working classes is widening considerably. I agree in terms of education its easier to better yourself in this respect compared to years ago but this has gradually become harder to do since the recession and its only getting worse. Education grants were cut and with rising rents many lower class students cant afford to get a higher education, this leaves them with the only option but to peruse further ed qualifications in hairdressing etc or learn a trade, it may keep them afloat but they'll never progress to middle class.

Keep in mind there are many many people considered to be middle class who cant afford to rent and are barely making ends meet.

Lux23

Lux23 wrote: »

A growing middle class that can't afford to rent a decent home? Are you renting yourself right now?

I'm not renting but my personal situation and the fact that the middle class is growing are independent of each other.

Brussels Sprout

There is no one simple reason why there's a scarcity of rental accommodation in the cities but plenty of individual reasons that when compounded turn into the crisis that we currently have:

1. A decade where commercial construction of accommodation practically ceased
2. Lack of access to credit for developers and builders since the crash
3. A government policy where social housing construction ceased decades ago
4. Planning authorities routinely denying planning permission to high density accommodation in urban areas
5. Units lying empty whose ownership is contested in courts (between builders, developers, NAMA, banks etc)
6. The transfer of units from the long-term rental market to the short-term rental market (AirBnB)
7. A growing population (includes immigration which disproportionately affects cities)
8. Central Bank restrictions on mortgages which have inflated the number of renters in the market (this is a good long term policy though as the crash showed that many need to be saved from themselves)

Many of these are outside of the control of government policy but two things that could certainly be done in the short-term are:

1. Restrictions on the short-term rental market to prevent units ending up on AirBnB full-time and being lost to the long-term rental market
2. A review of the criteria by which planning authorities reject planning permission. I'm all for them preventing the construction of crappy Celtic-tiger era shoe-box apartments but there should be an end to the practive whereby rejections occur due to the heights of the proposed buildings offending the sensibilities of the relevant bodies.

Lux23

Augeo wrote: »

I'm not renting, but my personal situation and the fact that the middle class is growing are independent of each other.

Income inequality was at its lowest in 1978. Over the last four decades, the gap between the very wealthy and the middle classes has increased exponentially meaning you need a lot more money to attain the standard of living that your parents might have achieved on one income. There are far higher levels of participation in third level education, but the outcomes for these students isn't as positive as it would have been in the 80s or 90s. The growing middle class you're talking about isn't doing any better than the working classes of the 70s, and the price of rent is one reason why.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

There's more than enough land here. The island could comfortably accommodate 5 times our current population. Rich or poor, mansions, renters and social housing, everyone needs somewhere to live. There needs to be a massive push to build more houses.

Housing is the number 1 problem facing the country at the moment, it was last year, and it will be next year too. Fine Gael will win or lose the next election on this issue.

bodhrandude

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Why is the post being deleted, what does this mean, did you say something naughty naughty or forget what you were going to say?

frozenfrozen

bodhrandude wrote: »

Why is the post being deleted, what does this mean, did you say something naughty naughty or forget what you were going to say?

He got rid of loads of stuff by doing GDPR requests

daheff

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

There is no one simple reason why there's a scarcity of rental accommodation in the cities but plenty of individual reasons that when compounded turn into the crisis that we currently have:


[*]A decade where commercial construction of accommodation practically ceased
.

so population grew from 4.239m in 2006 census to 4.581m in 2011 census to 4.761m in 2016. So roughly 500K more people in 10 years. 200k in 5 years.

48K more occupied properties in 2016 than 2011. About 10k a year.

Reasonably speaking, a new property would house 3 people (on average) so the amount of new properties (while not covering the increase in people) would account for a smaller % of the problem than people may think.


There wasnt a crazy rent boom in 2011, but there was in 2016 and getting higher.

I would read that construction(Supply) is not the main issue here.


So if we ask what else is going on in the market? Well there are a number of charities buying up properties and renting them to low/no income families. This is reducing the overall supply of properties. This means that the top end of the market is now fine (they have disposable income to cover their rent), bottom part is being looked after (somebody else is subsidising a lot of them)...but the middle is being squeezed again.

There are more middle income people chasing fewer properties (because of increase in numbers going to low income people). Because middle income people have excess disposable income (or had), they are using some of this to bid up the rent they are prepared (or have to) pay.

So unless there is a quick increase in available properties (and rents drop), a lot of middle income people will not be able to save money for a deposit to buy their own place. So a sizeable amount of people will be stuck in rental limbo for life.

link to census below.

https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/newsevents/documents/census2016summaryresultspart1/Census2016SummaryPart1.pdf

Lux23

Lux23 wrote: »

.............The growing middle class you're talking about isn't doing any better than the working classes of the 70s.............

We don't live in the 70s though. We live in the world of today. Today's middle class are today's middle class regardless of what the working classes of the 70s got up to.

In the 70s a typical working class family and many middle class ones too had one income, one car, one holiday, no smart phones etc and rarely ate out. Takeaways were a real treat.

Two incomes, two cars, plenty weekends away and at least one foreign holiday are the norm nowadays for middle class couple and middle class singletons have a great standard of living compared to folk in the 70s too.

If you can't afford a car, a holiday or your rent nowadays than you aren't middle class.

Fol20

Lux23 wrote: »

Income inequality was at its lowest in 1978. Over the last four decades, the gap between the very wealthy and the middle classes has increased exponentially meaning you need a lot more money to attain the standard of living that your parents might have achieved on one income. There are far higher levels of participation in third level education, but the outcomes for these students isn't as positive as it would have been in the 80s or 90s. The growing middle class you're talking about isn't doing any better than the working classes of the 70s, and the price of rent is one reason why.

Income inequality has risen massively however standard of living has increased massively for all classes. We had little to no social protections i decades ago, multiple families may have been in the same house, no car, luxuries, travel, health care, the list goes on. The standard of living for all classes is much better now.

Fol20

Fol20 wrote: »

.......... The standard of living for all classes is much better now.

Indeed, the fact that some folk reckon that a middle class person or couple is no better off today than a working class family of the 70s is absolute lunacy.

Airyfairy12

Augeo wrote: »

Indeed, the fact that some folk reckon that a middle class person or couple is no better off today than a working class family of the 70s is absolute lunacy.

My grandparents where working class in the 70's, a family of 6 lived off my grandads wage, he worked in a factory doing metal work, they owned a car, a house and never went without food. Theres families on two wages that cant afford to feed their kids these days and havnt a hope of owning a house.

My parents in the 80's got married, owned a house and a car and raised a family on two minimum wage incomes.

Lux23

Augeo wrote: »

Indeed, the fact that some folk reckon that a middle class person or couple is no better off today than a working class family of the 70s is absolute lunacy.

It's not lunacy - look at the data.

https://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/sites/default/files/assets/document/O%27Connor%20NatTASCreport_0.pdf

whisky_galore

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

There is no one simple reason why there's a scarcity of rental accommodation in the cities but plenty of individual reasons that when compounded turn into the crisis that we currently have:

1. A decade where commercial construction of accommodation practically ceased
2. Lack of access to credit for developers and builders since the crash
3. A government policy where social housing construction ceased decades ago
4. Planning authorities routinely denying planning permission to high density accommodation in urban areas
5. Units lying empty whose ownership is contested in courts (between builders, developers, NAMA, banks etc)
6. The transfer of units from the long-term rental market to the short-term rental market (AirBnB)
7. A growing population (includes immigration which disproportionately affects cities)
8. Central Bank restrictions on mortgages which have inflated the number of renters in the market (this is a good long term policy though as the crash showed that many need to be saved from themselves)

Many of these are outside of the control of government policy but two things that could certainly be done in the short-term are:

1. Restrictions on the short-term rental market to prevent units ending up on AirBnB full-time and being lost to the long-term rental market
2. A review of the criteria by which planning authorities reject planning permission. I'm all for them preventing the construction of crappy Celtic-tiger era shoe-box apartments but there should be an end to the practive whereby rejections occur due to the heights of the proposed buildings offending the sensibilities of the relevant bodies.

You can add property hoarding to that list too.

Airyfairy12

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

My grandparents where working class in the 70's, a family of 6 lived off my grandads wage, he worked in a factory doing metal work, they owned a car, a house and never went without food. Theres families on two wages that cant afford to feed their kids these days and havnt a hope of owning a house.

My parents in the 80's got married, owned a house and a car and raised a family on two minimum wage incomes.

There was no minimum wage in the 80s.
But I'm sure there are household s on 40k/annum wage incomes managing away nicely today (outside of Dublin etc) with a car & mortgage etc.

Lux23

Lux23 wrote: »

It's not lunacy - look at the data.

https://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/sites/default/files/assets/document/O%27Connor%20NatTASCreport_0.pdf

That didn't detail how working class folk in the 70s had multiple cars per house, foreign holidays, big TV etc etc

Airyfairy12

Augeo wrote: »

There was no minimum wage in the 80s.

They worked as unskilled laborers for low wage.