What's the story with busking permits?

Lol12379

Do people need a permit to busk? Or is it a plan the council thought of but haven't implemented? If one does need a permit to busk in Galway where does one get it?

zell12

Cllr Michael J Crowe is under the impression that "amplification is the biggest problem in Galway".
Maybe he knows the answer
https://www.fiannafail.ie/people/cllr-michael-crowe/

biko

Some info here https://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/bye_laws/Draft%20Busking%20Street%20Performance-Busking%20Bye%20laws_EN.pdf

Mrs OBumble

Council voting on a proposal for limits and some permits tonight.

Whereisgalway

The city council are trying their best to drive buskers out of the city, banning amps? Most are under 50kw. Shops pay massive rates, buskers don’t, the council are only ever going to think short term. Sad day for the city that this got voted through


Galway 2020 city of cultural. Comical we should be embarrassed and Hand it back

Whereisgalway

Whereisgalway wrote: »

The city council are trying their best to drive buskers out of the city, banning amps? Most are under 50kw. Shops pay massive rates, buskers don’t, the council are only ever going to think short term. Sad day for the city that this got voted through


Galway 2020 city of cultural. Comical we should be embarrassed and Hand it back

Good buskers don’t need amps.

Amps mean buskers have to stand further apart.

No amps means more space for buskers means more good buskers.

Mars Bar

No amps before 6pm was passed last night. Buskers under the age of 16 have to be accompanied by a parent.

I'm glad to hear the end of the amps to be honest.

Mars Bar

Mars Bar wrote: »

No amps before 6pm was passed last night. Buskers under the age of 16 have to be accompanied by a parent.

I'm glad to hear the end of the amps to be honest.

Buskers under 16 need a parent, can't wait to see the primary school Christmas Carrollers

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Buskers under 16 need a parent, can't wait to see the primary school Christmas Carrollers

Hee ... and the exact parent who is named on the permit needs to be present. I don't know how close they have to be to be considered present.

Mars Bar

Wonder what's going to happen to the fella with the hat and the backing tracks? He's awful but he bloody loves it.

dok_golf

Ed Sheeran?

biko

Mars Bar wrote: »

No amps before 6pm was passed last night

Not enforced just yet, I saw a bunch on Shop Street with amps at lunchtime
Probably too new for them to know

Mrs OBumble

Mars Bar wrote: »

Wonder what's going to happen to the fella with the hat and the backing tracks? He's awful but he bloody loves it.

Hopefully Jody will continue to perform and if the community wardens try to confiscate his gear a spontaneous citizens army will arise from the street to protect him.

Ditto for Emma the dancer ... who according to the mayor is supposed to hire live musicians to play for her every day.

Whereisgalway

Shocking out of the council ruining a great assets the city has would be more in there line to clean up the city maybe enforce dog walkers to pick up poo after their pouch’s on the prom to start with

inisboffin

The whole 'good buskers don't need amps' stuff isn't true at all. Some buskers just use an amp to save their voices when they have gigs etc, and so they can work full weeks.

Tell me that if you've lived next to a bad piper or sax player. All it means is more shouty ballads, and soon will come more brass players.

Drum kits banned entirely.

Street theatre (circle acts) banned entirely days and weekends before 6.

No dance acts (like Emma) with backing tracks, and others.

And the one about "You can't say or do anything offensive to anyone"? WTF

This is a bad decision.

inisboffin

biko wrote: »

Not enforced just yet, I saw a bunch on Shop Street with amps at lunchtime
Probably too new for them to know

They won't come in until September apparently. The last meeting at least has to be accepted at next meeting. Not much incentive for the buskers to follow any rules now this summer, given half them will be run out.

TerrorFirmer

Mars Bar wrote: »

Wonder what's going to happen to the fella with the hat and the backing tracks? He's awful but he bloody loves it.

I'd say he's unwittingly a major driving force behind the bye-laws.

Fitz*

Ya Jody probably was the loudest to be fair, didn't help that he was not that good!:pac:

Why not put a limit on decibel level / amp size instead of banning amps altogether?

One of my favourite things to do since I moved to Galway 11 years ago is to walk down shop street in the evening time and hear that dude playing the electric guitar playing Eric Clapton or the likes, and not loudly either. Seemed like a perfect blend of relaxing music and the calmness of shop street in the evening etc. He is one who will miss out big time now.

What started as probably an idea to stop the congestion outside Brown Thomas & River Island where bigger sized bands and acts used to get bigger crowds is now going to destroy the busking culture.

Gingganggooley

Mrs OBumble wrote:

Hopefully Jody will continue to perform and if the community wardens try to confiscate his gear a spontaneous citizens army will arise from the street to protect him.

He is one of the reasons why these restrictions are now required. One or two numpties have ruined it for everyone else.

JohnCleary

Gingganggooley wrote: »

He is one of the reasons why these restrictions are now required. One or two numpties have ruined it for everyone else.

Source?

Mrs OBumble

Gingganggooley wrote: »

He is one of the reasons why these restrictions are now required. One or two numpties have ruined it for everyone else.

So he will be put off the street, but Down Syndrome fiddle guy won't be, because he doesn't need an amp.

How's that fair?

smurf492

Mrs OBumble wrote:

So he will be put off the street, but Down Syndrome fiddle guy won't be, because he doesn't need an amp.

What has his personal condition got to do with busking

Gingganggooley

It's not fair. It's not a good idea to legislate in this way, but it the easier and cheaper option. I would advocate an alternative involving dealing with individuals on a case by case basis.

Long-serving and more highly skilled street entertainers have tried to police the situation themselves but have been given the middle finger and told where to go by others, which leaves us here.

pure.conya

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good buskers don’t need amps.

Amps mean buskers have to stand further apart.

No amps means more space for buskers means more good buskers.

Have you ever tried playing an electric guitar without an amp? tis a sad sight

pure.conya

Mars Bar wrote: »

Wonder what's going to happen to the fella with the hat and the backing tracks? He's awful but he bloody loves it.

As a matter or interest, do you like music at all?

pure.conya

FitzShane wrote: »

Ya Jody probably was the loudest to be fair, didn't help that he was not that good!:pac:

Why not put a limit on decibel level / amp size instead of banning amps altogether?

One of my favourite things to do since I moved to Galway 11 years ago is to walk down shop street in the evening time and hear that dude playing the electric guitar playing Eric Clapton or the likes, and not loudly either. Seemed like a perfect blend of relaxing music and the calmness of shop street in the evening etc. He is one who will miss out big time now.

What started as probably an idea to stop the congestion outside Brown Thomas & River Island where bigger sized bands and acts used to get bigger crowds is now going to destroy the busking culture.

Tony's guitar strumming is amazing and I will not stand for the stupid city council deciding he can't play anymore

ben.schlomo

pure.conya wrote: »

FitzShane wrote: »

Ya Jody probably was the loudest to be fair, didn't help that he was not that good!:pac:

Why not put a limit on decibel level / amp size instead of banning amps altogether?

One of my favourite things to do since I moved to Galway 11 years ago is to walk down shop street in the evening time and hear that dude playing the electric guitar playing Eric Clapton or the likes, and not loudly either. Seemed like a perfect blend of relaxing music and the calmness of shop street in the evening etc. He is one who will miss out big time now.

What started as probably an idea to stop the congestion outside Brown Thomas & River Island where bigger sized bands and acts used to get bigger crowds is now going to destroy the busking culture.

Tony's guitar strumming is amazing and I will not stand for the stupid city council deciding he can't play anymore

What are you going to do? As a matter of interest.

flazio

pure.conya wrote: »

Have you ever tried playing an electric guitar without an amp? tis a sad sight

Electric guitars don't belong on a busking street anyway, it's all about the acoustic atmosphere.
From what I've seen, ring performers are moving over to Eyre Square and are still drawing in the crowds.
In my opinion busking should be a little more intimate, not loud and brash and therefore I'd like to see how the new regulations are given a chance to change the atmosphere in Galway.

Whereisgalway

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So he will be put off the street, but Down Syndrome fiddle guy won't be, because he doesn't need an amp.

How's that fair?

He’s a very talented musician, an outstanding ear for music and is pretty good at drama aswell. You should look past the superficial surface/syndrome and look at the person inside. Try talk to him next time you see him, find out his name even.......

pure.conya

flazio wrote: »

Electric guitars don't belong on a busking street anyway, it's all about the acoustic atmosphere.
From what I've seen, ring performers are moving over to Eyre Square and are still drawing in the crowds.
In my opinion busking should be a little more intimate, not loud and brash and therefore I'd like to see how the new regulations are given a chance to change the atmosphere in Galway.

so everybody that enjoys electric guitars played on the streets of Galway are wrong and you're right? how about a bass?

Mars Bar

pure.conya wrote: »

As a matter or interest, do you like music at all?

I have a degree in Music Technology and play the guitar and the drums.

pure.conya

pure.conya wrote: »

Have you ever tried playing an electric guitar without an amp? tis a sad sight

You don’t busk with an electric guitar. just like you don’t busk with a grand piano. A bad tradesman blames his tools. Bad musicians blame their instruments.

And regarding the gent who busks properly but has Downs Syndrome. What good would it do anyone to put him off the street?

inisboffin

Deleted User wrote: »

You don’t busk with an electric guitar. just like you don’t busk with a grand piano. A bad tradesman blames his tools. Bad musicians blame their instruments.

And regarding the gent who busks properly but has Downs Syndrome. What good would it do anyone to put him off the street?

Why do you get to decide what a busker should play?

And rubbish about a bad tradesman and that line. Wait until you have heard a really bad bagpiper to say that. No amp needed there.

I think the point being made about the fiddle player was that both them and the other musician who uses a backing track have a disability, and it is unfair to ban one of them because of what he plays.

inisboffin

Mars Bar wrote: »

I have a degree in Music Technology and play the guitar and the drums.

Well no more drum kits EVER on the streets of Galway, day or night, band or no band.

All children's theatre is effectively banned as no circle acts before 6.

inisboffin

flazio wrote: »

Electric guitars don't belong on a busking street anyway, it's all about the acoustic atmosphere.
From what I've seen, ring performers are moving over to Eyre Square and are still drawing in the crowds.
In my opinion busking should be a little more intimate, not loud and brash and therefore I'd like to see how the new regulations are given a chance to change the atmosphere in Galway.

I don't know where you are getting this about 'ring' performers (and by the way circle acts are ANY act, puppeteers, dancers etc that stop a crowd), sure the bye laws won't come in until September, and they were only voted on Monday, so nobody has moved anywhere.

They should have gone with the code of conduct, there is no way the Gardaí can police this, nor do they even want to.

Mrs OBumble

inisboffin wrote: »

I think the point being made about the fiddle player was that both them and the other musician who uses a backing track have a disability, and it is unfair to ban one of them because of what he plays.

Exactly.

I do know fiddle-guy's name and some of his story. But I'm not using it here 'cos he hasn't had it in the newspaper in the same way. He's a better musician than most people with DS, for sure, but he's certainly not good - he totally murders tunes and has major issues with tone. If he didn't have a visible disability he would make nothing at all.

Jody's act is as much theatrics as it is singing, and he's a far better performer overall, even though some don't like his voice. He makes money even though his disability isn't visible - there's none of the patronising "ahh, bless" factor going on. But he's banned because he uses a recorded music.

Deleted User wrote: »

You don’t busk with an electric guitar. just like you don’t busk with a grand piano. A bad tradesman blames his tools. Bad musicians blame their instruments.

And regarding the gent who busks properly but has Downs Syndrome. What good would it do anyone to put him off the street?

If you play electric guitar, why shouldn't you be allowed to busk with it?

Why should Nicole Bleu (apol for spelling!) be prevented from being amplified when she's still quieter amped than Robin or James with their loud male voices and banjos?


I don't think anyone should be put off the streets. Let the roar (well contributions :-) ) of the crowd decide.


It's bollox!

pure.conya

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You don’t busk with an electric guitar. just like you don’t busk with a grand piano. A bad tradesman blames his tools. Bad musicians blame their instruments.

And regarding the gent who busks properly but has Downs Syndrome. What good would it do anyone to put him off the street?

But there's fiddle buskers, whistle players, accordion, bag pipes, sax etc. in Galway, there was even a piano player would pop up outside lynches Castle up to a few years ago.

I never said anything about any buskers with disabilities. I enjoy listening to/watching Jody and the DS lad with his Dad

pure.conya

pure.conya wrote: »

But there's fiddle buskers, whistle players, accordion, bag pipes, sax etc. in Galway, there was even a piano player would pop up outside lynches Castle up to a few years ago.

I never said anything about any buskers with disabilities. I enjoy listening to/watching Jody and the DS lad with his Dad

If you can make it work, then make it work. If you can’t make it work, do something that does. I’m still of the opinion that you can get more buskers on a street with no amps. It’s good for the buskers, and forces them to go without the training wheels. Be Good, and the ampspace will come when punters pay to see you.

inisboffin

inisboffin wrote: »

I don't know where you are getting this about 'ring' performers (and by the way circle acts are ANY act, puppeteers, dancers etc that stop a crowd), sure the bye laws won't come in until September, and they were only voted on Monday, so nobody has moved anywhere.

They should have gone with the code of conduct, there is no way the Gardaan police this, nor do they even want to.

The part about circle acts are targeting a very specific few people. The lads that block the entire entrance to shop street and just run around and clap for one.

inisboffin

Deleted User wrote: »

The part about circle acts are targeting a very specific few people. The lads that block the entire entrance to shop street and just run around and clap for one.

No that's not true. The bye laws were amended. A circle act is now defined as basically any performance for which the audience stop and watch. Including "dance, puppetry, circus and any theatre". Emma the sean nos dancer is defined as a circle act. She is also banned in the day for her recorded music. They changed the wording of the law at the last minute in the council vote from 'lower wattage amps' to 'banning amps'. :mad:

ben.schlomo

Deleted User wrote: »

inisboffin wrote: »

I don't know where you are getting this about 'ring' performers (and by the way circle acts are ANY act, puppeteers, dancers etc that stop a crowd), sure the bye laws won't come in until September, and they were only voted on Monday, so nobody has moved anywhere.

They should have gone with the code of conduct, there is no way the Gardaan police this, nor do they even want to.

The part about circle acts are targeting a very specific few people. The lads that block the entire entrance to shop street and just run around and clap for one.

Great news, talentless gimps constantly blocking the street doing fcuk all. There should be no place for them, the lads with the rotating pull up bar thing or that ilk. I don't think there's any major need for amps pumping out music that's either poor quality or so loud that it's just annoying for anyone working in the area, plenty of talented musicians and performers in the city don't need them.

inisboffin

Deleted User wrote: »

If you can make it work, then make it work. If you can’t make it work, do something that does. I’m still of the opinion that you can get more buskers on a street with no amps. It’s good for the buskers, and forces them to go without the training wheels. Be Good, and the ampspace will come when punters pay to see you.

Busking is the ULTIMATE people paying to see you!

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Great news, talentless gimps constantly blocking the street doing fcuk all. There should be no place for them, the lads with the rotating pull up bar thing or that ilk. I don't think there's any major need for amps pumping out music that's either poor quality or so loud that it's just annoying for anyone working in the area, plenty of talented musicians and performers in the city don't need them.

Is this what you mean by a 'talentless gimp'? I don't think so.

ben.schlomo

inisboffin wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Great news, talentless gimps constantly blocking the street doing fcuk all. There should be no place for them, the lads with the rotating pull up bar thing or that ilk. I don't think there's any major need for amps pumping out music that's either poor quality or so loud that it's just annoying for anyone working in the area, plenty of talented musicians and performers in the city don't need them.

Is this what you mean by a 'talentless gimp'? I don't think so.

I don't particularly like her but no I'm not talking about her. I clearly referenced the circle acts at the top of Shop St mentioned in the quoted post. That ok?

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I don't particularly like her but no I'm not talking about her. I clearly referenced the circle acts at the top of Shop St mentioned in the quoted post. That ok?

Yeah. That's the thing though. Baby with the bathwater and all that. Circle acts are now defined to mean dance, theatre, puppetry etc (as well as the lads with the bar yoke, who I agree are not street art. But then again some people apparently love watching others lose money). The new bye law doesn't differentiate between the dancers, the actors, and the bar men.

ben.schlomo

inisboffin wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I don't particularly like her but no I'm not talking about her. I clearly referenced the circle acts at the top of Shop St mentioned in the quoted post. That ok?

Yeah. That's the thing though. Baby with the bathwater and all that. Circle acts are now defined to mean dance, theatre, puppetry etc (as well as the lads with the bar yoke, who I agree are not street art. But then again some people apparently love watching others lose money). The new bye law doesn't differentiate between the dancers, the actors, and the bar men.

Doesn't overly bother me, no performer has the right to block any of the streets, making it difficult for anyone else to get by. Plenty manage to create an atmosphere and earn something without blocking the streets completely, more power (pun intended) to them it seems. Amp performers such as your dancer friend can still perform after six.

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Doesn't overly bother me, no performer has the right to block any of the streets, making it difficult for anyone else to get by. Plenty manage to create an atmosphere and earn something without blocking the streets completely, more power (pun intended) to them it seems. Amp performers such as your dancer friend can still perform after six.

Fair enough that it doesn’t bother you. It bothers me and others. For the few that have blocked streets, plenty who don’t are being penalised. The dancer is not my friend although I respect street performers who are good. However anyone performing for kids including her has lost their audience after 6.
I agree that restrictions were needed but they should have left it to that busker code.

ben.schlomo

inisboffin wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Doesn't overly bother me, no performer has the right to block any of the streets, making it difficult for anyone else to get by. Plenty manage to create an atmosphere and earn something without blocking the streets completely, more power (pun intended) to them it seems. Amp performers such as your dancer friend can still perform after six.

Fair enough that it doesn’t bother you. It bothers me and others. For the few that have blocked streets, plenty who don’t are being penalised. The dancer is not my friend although I respect street performers who are good. However anyone performing for kids including her has lost their audience after 6.
I agree that restrictions were needed but they should have left it to that busker code.

The code which did nothing to stop circle acts blocking streets? Also I don't think she exclusively performs for kids, any time I walk by it's usually just groups of tourists standing blocking the junction. They'll still be there from 6pm.

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

The code which did nothing to stop circle acts blocking streets? Also I don't think she exclusively performs for kids, any time I walk by it's usually just groups of tourists standing blocking the junction. They'll still be there from 6pm.

The code was only made at the end of the summer last year. I think from what you are writing that the biggest issue is the seasonal circle acts. It will take a full two seasons for the code to work, just like changes like this happen in Edinburgh etc.

No you're right Emma performs not exclusively for kids, but it will cut her income enough that she may go elsewhere to make up for that. While she may perform after 6 remember now that it's the same amount of acts now in a 5 hour section (4 hours in winter) as opposed to a 14 hour day.
A fourteen hour day being cut to a five hour day. And within that full day in the summer, if you are sharing spots, you might only get six hours.
Imagine that in terms of jobs. Also the exclusive kids acts are gone now. The little kids are rarely out after 6.

While I agree with you that some of the larger acts abused their place on the street, these bye laws are punishing a much larger community and it will have an impact on more that the buskers.

Peter Keane, who was behind the laws in the first place posted a 'congratulations' type post to himself on his Facebook. There were a couple of 'well done' message followed by a slew of objections. Why they bothered putting these bye laws out for Public Submission, when 80-90% of respondents were against them, is beyond me.

ben.schlomo

inisboffin wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

The code which did nothing to stop circle acts blocking streets? Also I don't think she exclusively performs for kids, any time I walk by it's usually just groups of tourists standing blocking the junction. They'll still be there from 6pm.

The code was only made at the end of the summer last year. I think from what you are writing that the biggest issue is the seasonal circle acts. It will take a full two seasons for the code to work, just like changes like this happen in Edinburgh etc.

No you're right Emma performs not exclusively for kids, but it will cut her income enough that she may go elsewhere to make up for that. While she may perform after 6 remember now that it's the same amount of acts now in a 5 hour section (4 hours in winter) as opposed to a 14 hour day.
A fourteen hour day being cut to a five hour day. And within that full day in the summer, if you are sharing spots, you might only get six hours.
Imagine that in terms of jobs. Also the exclusive kids acts are gone now. The little kids are rarely out after 6.

While I agree with you that some of the larger acts abused their place on the street, these bye laws are punishing a much larger community and it will have an impact on more that the buskers.

Peter Keane, who was behind the laws in the first place posted a 'congratulations' type post to himself on his Facebook. There were a couple of well done' followed by numerous objections. Why did they bothered putting these bye laws out for Public Submission, when 80-90% of respondents were against them, is beyond me.

Ah yes FB the realm of reasonable comments to council decisions, it's like a cage of rabid anti council dogs. These rules will weed out the unnecessary acts and the rest will be left, no big loss if a couple of loud amp acts are gone and quieter ones remain. I don't see these knock on effects that you're hinting around. There's always going to buskers on the streets, that won't change.

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Ah yes FB the realm of reasonable comments to council decisions, it's like a cage of rabid anti council dogs. These rules will weed out the unnecessary acts and the rest will be left, no big loss if a couple of loud amp acts are gone and quieter ones remain. I don't see these knock on effects that you're hinting around. There's always going to buskers on the streets, that won't change.

As opposed to the pragmatic good sense on boards?
The submissions were put out for public consultation to the general public. I don't know if you have actually been to a Council meeting (I have) but you'd be shocked at the way some of the Councillors talk about the 'public', and while many are sensible, the amount of rubbish and wasted time is astounding. You won't see any knock on effects until at least September, and probably not until next year. The Council still has to go through a bunch of red tape (including translation) of the laws and then they are on 'holidays' for two months so nothing will happen this summer. The amp law has nothing to do with quiet. Bar drum kits, brass bands, bagpipes etc are not banned. Time will tell how this changes our streets, if indeed the laws are not challenged. 2020 will definitely be different.