Sonia O’Sullivan: Our athletes need to win on track not social media

Chivito550

Sonia not holding back here. Some very valid points made, in particular the social media stuff.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/sonia-o-sullivan-our-athletes-need-to-win-on-track-not-social-media-1.3489408?mode=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Safiri

The vast majority of the running boom is made up of 35+ runners. Athletics Ireland could have 500,000 members but if the demographics of number aren't favouring the young; you cannot expect huge levels of elite runners to be produced. People can blame social media, colour runs or charity events all they want but the truth is that the base of the pyramid lies in juvenile athletics; not local fun runs where the average age is close to 40.

Chivito550

Safiri wrote: »

The vast majority of the running boom is made up of 35+ runners. Athletics Ireland could have 500,000 members but if the demographics of number aren't favouring the young; you cannot expect huge levels of elite runners to be produced. People can blame social media, colour runs or charity events all they want but the truth is that the base of the pyramid lies in juvenile athletics; not local fun runs where the average age is close to 40.

Agree partially. However, membership numbers are still important. The more 40 and 50 year olds involved, the more chance their kids will end up involved too.

Safiri

Chivito550 wrote: »

Agree partially. However, membership numbers are still important. The more 40 and 50 year olds involved, the more chance their kids will end up involved too.

Probably but how does social media act in this?

Chivito550

Safiri wrote: »

Probably but how does social media act in this?

Her point about social media is our elite athletes taking selfies at major championships, putting up videos in the gym, on the track etc. I can see both sides to it. Funding is so limited that people need to promote themselves, but on the other hand it creates “big fish in small ponds”.

Djoucer

Normally enjoy her columns but she's all over the shop on this.

Talking rubbish about social media.

It's a huge stretch, at worst disingenuous, to claim, and it's completely improvable claim, that athletes are too worried about sharing training sessions etc on social media.

There's a whole lot wrong with Irish athletics, but it's got nothing to do with social media.

She's in "old man shakes fist at cloud" territory.

Expecting our athletes to compete on crap funding and then complain when they try to make themselves marketable to sponsors etc.

Duanington

Djoucer wrote: »

Normally enjoy her columns but she's all over the shop on this.

Talking rubbish about social media.

It's a huge stretch, at worst disingenuous, to claim, and it's completely improvable claim, that athletes are too worried about sharing training sessions etc on social media.

There's a whole lot wrong with Irish athletics, but it's got nothing to do with social media.

She's in "old man shakes fist at cloud" territory.

Expecting our athletes to compete on crap funding and then complain when they try to make themselves marketable to sponsors etc.

I'm torn on this one, I usually love reading what Sonia has to say because I've so much respect for her but the social media thing is a bit wide of the mark, its not part of the problem. A lot of the time its purely down to Athletes feeling the need to raise their profile for sponsorship\funding or to plug a certain product or whatever.

If its good enough for Bolt, Kipchoge and dare I say it, Farah...then why is it such an issue when our athletes us it?

Murph_D

Athletes are on social media, like everyone else. To blame the social media usage on lack of attention to performance is just technophobia. Athletes have lots of free time to kill, they can't be training all the time. If they were posting selfies in the middle of a session that would be a different story.

mloc123

Djoucer wrote: »

She's in "old man shakes fist at cloud" territory.

She has been for a few years now tbh.. Her views on Semenya previously.

Y2K86

She's right

Should be more of a focus on winning, than participating

10k race, not run

Thats what gets you fit

Halloween Jack

I see a lot of stuff on this forum decrying the fact that the mass participation in running is doing nothing or very little for the elite end of the sport in this country, but I never understood what the need to produce more world class athletes is? It always seemed to me that the tangible benefit of having an elite superstar is to inspire more people to participate, so, if we already have loads of people participating, why do we need more world class Elite athletes, other than to have someone to cheer on at major champs etc?

This is a genuine question, just interested in people’s perspectives.

Hurrache

Y2K86 wrote: »

Thats what gets you fit

You can get fit without ever having ran a race, never mind competed at the top.

Chivito550

Halloween Jack wrote: »

I see a lot of stuff on this forum decrying the fact that the mass participation in running is doing nothing or very little for the elite end of the sport in this country, but I never understood what the need to produce more world class athletes is? It always seemed to me that the tangible benefit of having an elite superstar is to inspire more people to participate, so, if we already have loads of people participating, why do we need more world class Elite athletes, other than to have someone to cheer on at major champs etc?

This is a genuine question, just interested in people’s perspectives.

Most people who are passionate about a particular sport like to see the sport doing well. Most people who are involved in a sport in a particular country like to see others from that country succeed at the highest level in that sport.

No different to somebody involved in football from Liverpool (or errr Maynooth or Gorey :rolleyes:) wanting to see the Liverpool football team do well.

Top elite performances do inspire people to take up the sport of athletics. It may not inspire people to get involved in fun running, but it can inspire people to take up track and field, or to take road running more seriously.

carbonceiling

Halloween Jack wrote: »

I see a lot of stuff on this forum decrying the fact that the mass participation in running is doing nothing or very little for the elite end of the sport in this country, but I never understood what the need to produce more world class athletes is? It always seemed to me that the tangible benefit of having an elite superstar is to inspire more people to participate, so, if we already have loads of people participating, why do we need more world class Elite athletes, other than to have someone to cheer on at major champs etc?

This is a genuine question, just interested in people’s perspectives.

I tend to agree, I enjoy participating in sport at an amateur level and have enjoyed the health benefits that it brings to me personally. But I only have a passing interest in what happens at the elite level and I suspect I am not alone in that opinion.

She decries the growth of mass participation and the commendation of mediocrity as if this has caused the drop-off in performance at the elite level, but the link here is tenuous as the two can surely co-exist. I'm not sure why middle aged mums and dads signing up to a local 5k would impact upon the ambitions of those who have the potential to perform at the elite level.

Perhaps dipping ones toes into the murky waters of international athletics is less attractive these days than it used to be back in the day when we believed those waters to be clean and the winners to be shining examples of hard work and talent. If you were an aspiring young athlete with talent today, you might look at all that has happened and say "what's the point".

Chivito550

carbonceiling wrote: »

I tend to agree, I enjoy participating in sport at an amateur level and have enjoyed the health benefits that it brings to me personally. But I only have a passing interest in what happens at the elite level and I suspect I am not alone in that opinion.

She decries the growth of mass participation and the commendation of mediocrity as if this has caused the drop-off in performance at the elite level, but the link here is tenuous as the two can surely co-exist. I'm not sure why middle aged mums and dads signing up to a local 5k would impact upon the ambitions of those who have the potential to perform at the elite level.

Perhaps dipping ones toes into the murky waters of international athletics is less attractive these days than it used to be back in the day when we believed those waters to be clean and the winners to be shining examples of hard work and talent. If you were an aspiring young athlete with talent today, you might look at all that has happened and say "what's the point".

Did you read the article? She ran 4 fun runs in a weekend or so, including 2 park run and a women's mini marathon. She also mentions how much she enjoys seeing people of all ages and abilities out and about being active. She doesn't "decrie" it at all.

She's alluding to the fact that a huge disconnect exists between the fun runners and the sport of athletics. This is up to Athletics Ireland to solve. They are the ones who could bring the two closer together, only they don't bother.

And quit the lazy doping insinuations. If everybody was to take that approach, then nobody would compete in any sport, because every sport has drug cheats at the elite level. The difference between athletics and the likes of football and tennis is that athletics actually tries to catch its cheats, and has far superior anti-doping measures.

Halloween Jack

Chivito550 wrote: »

Most people who are passionate about a particular sport like to see the sport doing well. Most people who are involved in a sport in a particular country like to see others from that country succeed at the highest level in that sport.

No different to somebody involved in football from Liverpool (or errr Maynooth or Gorey :rolleyes:) wanting to see the Liverpool football team do well.

Top elite performances do inspire people to take up the sport of athletics. It may not inspire people to get involved in fun running, but it can inspire people to take up track and field, or to take road running more seriously.

I get that people like to have people to support etc, but to take the soccer analogy, it would be like soccer fans seeing the profusion of 5 a side pitched across the country and considering it presents a philosophical quandary as to why it isn’t feeding into national team results or believing it to be detrimental in some way to elite performances.

Chivito550

Halloween Jack wrote: »

I get that people like to have people to support etc, but to take the soccer analogy, it would be like soccer fans seeing the profusion of 5 a side pitched across the country and considering it presents a philosophical quandary as to why it isn’t feeding into national team results or believing it to be detrimental in some way to elite performances.

Where did Sonia say that fun runners are detrimental to elite performances?

She said elite performances are decreasing and fun running is increasing, but she's not saying one is causing the other. She seems to be more acknowledging a trend from "compete" to "complete".

As I said, the governing body could tap into this big market if they wanted. They are organising AAI fun runs, which is a good way of growing numbers, but there's no effort to connect these people to the other side of the sport.

Why not have a "National Outdoors Fun Run 5K" or something to that effect. Finish on the track the Sunday of National Outdoors. Free entry to Nationals for all fun runners. Music, face painting for the kids, BBQ, maybe something radical like some beer tents!!! Jazz up the whole thing. Make fun runners have a reason to care. The athletes will have a bigger crowd to compete in front of. The atmosphere feels good. Everybody enjoys themselves.

Why fun running and competitive athletics have to be kept separate is beyond me.

Halloween Jack

Chivito550 wrote: »

Where did Sonia say that fun runners are detrimental to elite performances?

She said elite performances are decreasing and fun running is increasing, but she's not saying one is causing the other. She seems to be more acknowledging a trend from "compete" to "complete".

As I said, the governing body could tap into this big market if they wanted. They are organising AAI fun runs, which is a good way of growing numbers, but there's no effort to connect these people to the other side of the sport.

Why not have a "National Outdoors Fun Run 5K" or something to that effect. Finish on the track the Sunday of National Outdoors. Free entry to Nationals for all fun runners. Music, face painting for the kids, BBQ, maybe something radical like some beer tents!!! Jazz up the whole thing. Make fun runners have a reason to care. The athletes will have a bigger crowd to compete in front of. The atmosphere feels good. Everybody enjoys themselves.

Why fun running and competitive athletics have to be kept separate is beyond me.

Sorry, I wasn’t suggesting o’sullivan said that herself, rather that it seems to be some sort consensus among some of the posters on this forum at times.

Many thanks for responding anyway, your perspective in interesting and I admire your passion for, and dedication to your sport.

Safiri

Chivito550 wrote: »

Where did Sonia say that fun runners are detrimental to elite performances?

She said elite performances are decreasing and fun running is increasing, but she's not saying one is causing the other. She seems to be more acknowledging a trend from "compete" to "complete".

As I said, the governing body could tap into this big market if they wanted. They are organising AAI fun runs, which is a good way of growing numbers, but there's no effort to connect these people to the other side of the sport.

Why not have a "National Outdoors Fun Run 5K" or something to that effect. Finish on the track the Sunday of National Outdoors. Free entry to Nationals for all fun runners. Music, face painting for the kids, BBQ, maybe something radical like some beer tents!!! Jazz up the whole thing. Make fun runners have a reason to care. The athletes will have a bigger crowd to compete in front of. The atmosphere feels good. Everybody enjoys themselves.

Why fun running and competitive athletics have to be kept separate is beyond me.

Not actually being a smartass here just in case you think I am but why don't you take some of your ideas to AI meetings? Ideas are only wasted meanderings if they are never heard.

Chivito550

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Sorry, I wasn’t suggesting o’sullivan said that herself, rather that it seems to be some sort consensus among some of the posters on this forum at times.

Many thanks for responding anyway, your perspective in interesting and I admire your passion for, and dedication to your sport.

Fun runners are a hugely untapped market as far as athletics is concerned. None of them may have the potential to be top athletes, but even just by having them connected with the competitive side of the sport (as a spectator or competitor) increases the number of people interested in athletics in Ireland, showing up to events etc. The more people interested in the sport, the better the sport for the sport in the long run. Bigger crowds, more atmosphere, more media attention, not to mention the kids of these fun runners wanting to take up the sport.

Athletics meets in Ireland are mostly crap with no atmosphere. Racing in Belgium last summer was a real eye opener. They have BBQ, beer, a carnival type atmosphere. They actually make standing by a track for hours on end a fun experience for all involved.

Make the event fun (Beer, BBQ, live music), develop a method to get fun runners to show up (fun run finishing on track). People will enjoy themselves, tell their mates etc.

There’s just no creativity in the sport here, outside of a few people working outside the system (Shane McCormack, Dermott McDermott etc).

Chivito550

Safiri wrote: »

Not actually being a smartass here just in case you think I am but why don't you take some of your ideas to AI meetings? Ideas are only wasted meanderings if they are never heard.

How do you know I haven’t?

RayCun

5k road race before the nationals would be a logistical nightmare. Not many parking spaces around there, and roads would be closed for the race, so what do the athletes competing at nationals do?

Safiri

Chivito550 wrote: »

How do you know I haven’t?

It's just a simple question. If you have, you have. If you haven't, it's an avenue you could explore proactively to try and make an actual change to the sport that you think would be beneficial. No skin off my back either way but maybe something useful for you to explore if you haven't.

Chivito550

RayCun wrote: »

5k road race before the nationals would be a logistical nightmare. Not many parking spaces around there, and roads would be closed for the race, so what do the athletes competing at nationals do?

There’s a big park behind the stadium. There’s a business park nearby. You can nitpick all you like but you know full well there’s a huge market they could be tapping into.

We’ll have a metro going to Northwood in 11 years time. A nice way of getting cars off the road. Bring it on.

timothydec77

In Ireland people run professionally to become poor in Kenya they run to become rich.

If Sonia was around running today would she have the same opinion. Given the near total domination of East African athletes.

Chivito550

timothydec77 wrote: »

In Ireland people run professionally to become poor in Kenya they run to become rich.

If Sonia was around running today would she have the same opinion. Given the near total domination of East African athletes.

If you can run 8:21 for 3000m, you’ll do just fine. In any era.

dublin runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

Fun runners are a hugely untapped market as far as athletics is concerned. None of them may have the potential to be top athletes, but even just by having them connected with the competitive side of the sport (as a spectator or competitor) increases the number of people interested in athletics in Ireland, showing up to events etc. The more people interested in the sport, the better the sport for the sport in the long run. Bigger crowds, more atmosphere, more media attention, not to mention the kids of these fun runners wanting to take up the sport.

Athletics meets in Ireland are mostly crap with no atmosphere. Racing in Belgium last summer was a real eye opener. They have BBQ, beer, a carnival type atmosphere. They actually make standing by a track for hours on end a fun experience for all involved.

Make the event fun (Beer, BBQ, live music), develop a method to get fun runners to show up (fun run finishing on track). People will enjoy themselves, tell their mates etc.

There’s just no creativity in the sport here, outside of a few people working outside the system (Shane McCormack, Dermott McDermott etc).

That gives me an idea........:D

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

Fun runners are a hugely untapped market as far as athletics is concerned. None of them may have the potential to be top athletes, but even just by having them connected with the competitive side of the sport (as a spectator or competitor) increases the number of people interested in athletics in Ireland, showing up to events etc. The more people interested in the sport, the better the sport for the sport in the long run. Bigger crowds, more atmosphere, more media attention, not to mention the kids of these fun runners wanting to take up the sport.

Athletics meets in Ireland are mostly crap with no atmosphere. Racing in Belgium last summer was a real eye opener. They have BBQ, beer, a carnival type atmosphere. They actually make standing by a track for hours on end a fun experience for all involved.

Make the event fun (Beer, BBQ, live music), develop a method to get fun runners to show up (fun run finishing on track). People will enjoy themselves, tell their mates etc.

There’s just no creativity in the sport here, outside of a few people working outside the system (Shane McCormack, Dermott McDermott etc).

See this is a brilliant idea, Athletics don't attract families to races, if anything they turned them away from it. The 5k race with bbq, face painting etc for kids would get more in attendance.

As a country Ireland has changed alot over the last 25 years, athletics way of thinking to attract people to the sport hasn't. Even Cricket are getting in with the modern way of thinking in Ireland!!!

demfad

Halloween Jack wrote: »

I see a lot of stuff on this forum decrying the fact that the mass participation in running is doing nothing or very little for the elite end of the sport in this country, but I never understood what the need to produce more world class athletes is? It always seemed to me that the tangible benefit of having an elite superstar is to inspire more people to participate, so, if we already have loads of people participating, why do we need more world class Elite athletes, other than to have someone to cheer on at major champs etc?

This is a genuine question, just interested in people’s perspectives.

That's a brilliant point. The Modern Olympics were set up for the purpose of promoting health. It is arguable that something like parkruns now provide this function better than elite running.

Elite running is irreversibly linked with corporations and the consumerism, waste, corruption, clutter, environmental damage etc. that comes with it.

Can we really say that modern elite sport has a positive affect on societies health anymore? And if it is causing more harm than good why bother with it?

average_runner

timothydec77 wrote: »

In Ireland people run professionally to become poor in Kenya they run to become rich.

If Sonia was around running today would she have the same opinion. Given the near total domination of East African athletes.

This is good point, there is no money in Athletics for an average professional, they know they can earn more in a good job or in other sports.

Why would someone become a professional Athlete in Ireland to just struggle while they can get a good job, nice house and the perks of what ever they want.

There is no reward for an Athlete except for the love of the sport and that's not enough any more obviously and I don't blame them.

wgtomblin

Chivito550 wrote: »

As I said, the governing body could tap into this big market if they wanted. They are organising AAI fun runs, which is a good way of growing numbers, but there's no effort to connect these people to the other side of the sport.

Why not have a "National Outdoors Fun Run 5K" or something to that effect. Finish on the track the Sunday of National Outdoors. Free entry to Nationals for all fun runners. Music, face painting for the kids, BBQ, maybe something radical like some beer tents!!! Jazz up the whole thing. Make fun runners have a reason to care. The athletes will have a bigger crowd to compete in front of. The atmosphere feels good. Everybody enjoys themselves.

Why fun running and competitive athletics have to be kept separate is beyond me.

This is something that the Danish Athletics federation have picked up on. They are a similar sized country to Ireland, and their recent success (or lack of) in international championships is on a par with ours. They successfully bidded for the next World XC, in Aarhus next year, which will include a mass participation event. Great to see people trying something new to promote the sport.

https://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/coe-praises-innovation-2019-world-cross-count