Shorter formats of golf.

FixdePitchmark

We have had GolfSixes and the R&A 9 hole championship is on at present.

What do people think of the push on shorter golf.

We are probably older traditional golf heads here ?
Any ideas ?


https://www.randa.org/Championships/9HoleChampionship

PARlance

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

We have had GolfSixes and the R&A 9 hole championship is on at present.

What do people think of the push on shorter golf.

We are probably older traditional golf heads here ?
Any ideas ?


https://www.randa.org/Championships/9HoleChampionship

I'm not sure if it's needed at Pro level, viewership was growing steadily the last time I looked at the trends.

There seems to be a need for it (at least some offering) at Club level but maybe that's not the discussion you wanted from this. I would love to see Golf Clubs trial the likes of an early morning weekend 9 hole comp, start it on the 10th at first tee time (have the normal 18 hole comp start at the same time on the 1st obviously) and see how it goes. The 9 hole comp could have to be limited to 6,7,8 groups so as not to hold up the following pack (from the main comp). You could have your golf played and be home well before 9 am in the Summer, I would do that Sat & Sun every weekend when possible.

I think that would be more people out playing, especially for those with younger families who turn into taxis for their kids on Sat & Sunday mornings.

lowelife

In my opinion even this long driving lark is a shorter format.

How about a tricky short game thing.

Difficult lies and see who gets closest etc?

Mantis Toboggan

PARlance wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's needed at Pro level, viewership was growing steadily the last time I looked at the trends.

There seems to be a need for it (at least some offering) at Club level but maybe that's not the discussion you wanted from this. I would love to see Golf Clubs trial the likes of an early morning weekend 9 hole comp, start it on the 10th at first tee time (have the normal 18 hole comp start at the same time on the 1st obviously) and see how it goes. The 9 hole comp could have to be limited to 6,7,8 groups so as not to hold up the following pack. You could have your golf played and be home well before 9 am in the Summer, I would do that Sat & Sun every weekend when possible.

I think that would be more people out playing, especially for those with younger families who turn into taxis for their kids on Sat & Sunday mornings.

We had that 9 hole comp in Grange Castle. I think it's mostly during the winter. Was great to get out for 2 hours and be home early especially when it's freezing. It gets very little support from what I saw though with people only playing it once the 18 hole comp was full. One thing that annoyed me with it was that it messed up stats on howdidido as it thought it was the front 9.

prawnsambo

The 9 hole format is getting more popular. It gets people out playing midweek after work and the next step is to make them open comps which seems to be happening this year. Not everyone has the time at weekends and it would also encourage more five-day memberships for people who want to play and compete but aren't free at weekends.

PARlance

prawnsambo wrote: »

The 9 hole format is getting more popular. It gets people out playing midweek after work and the next step is to make them open comps which seems to be happening this year. Not everyone has the time at weekends and it would also encourage more five-day memberships for people who want to play and compete but aren't free at weekends.

To expand on that, I think there's an opportunity to create a new type of membership if Clubs saw fit. A "short comp membership" (time poor membership) that would fit somewhere between a 5-day and Lifestyle offering... allowing you to play in a midweek and weekend, 9 hole comp.

It would be a risk for the Club in that they may lose Full members to it but it would be attractive to potential new members who haven't got the time etc.

ridonkulous

I'm all for the 9-hole format. I'm at that age where people are starting to have kids or their kids are getting out of the toddler stage so time at weekends is tight and it means the likes of those guys can play some competitive golf without being away for 5+ hours. Being able to tee off and be done by 9am on a weekend is nothing but good in my opinion. I don't see any negative to competitive 9-hole events. St Margaret's have introduced an open 9-hole on Friday evenings and I think it's a fantastic idea.

GreeBo

PARlance wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's needed at Pro level, viewership was growing steadily the last time I looked at the trends.

There seems to be a need for it (at least some offering) at Club level but maybe that's not the discussion you wanted from this. I would love to see Golf Clubs trial the likes of an early morning weekend 9 hole comp, start it on the 10th at first tee time (have the normal 18 hole comp start at the same time on the 1st obviously) and see how it goes. The 9 hole comp could have to be limited to 6,7,8 groups so as not to hold up the following pack (from the main comp). You could have your golf played and be home well before 9 am in the Summer, I would do that Sat & Sun every weekend when possible.

I think that would be more people out playing, especially for those with younger families who turn into taxis for their kids on Sat & Sunday mornings.

I believe Castle (though it may be Elm Park!) run a 9 hole for a few slots during their timesheet, I think it starts on the 6th or somewhere near the clubhouse so they cant have too many slots without impacting the 18 holers.

All our ladies comps are optional 9 or 18 holes.
We also have optional 12 holes some other competitions (everyone starts on the 7th so no impact on the timesheet for anyone playing 12).
However typically the 12 holes are only in the late afternoon/evening and due to light rather than peoples availability.

Irishdaywalker

I think it is a good idea to introduce 9 hole competitions, or "off peak" memberships. Where people who decide to take up this option would only have the option to play either 9 hole off peak competition or even the right to play in the midweek 18 hole comps (with full members). Could be a basic membership with no access to the likes of captains day, medals, interclub comps etc. But to answer the OP, I think it would have merit in introducing to clubs.

HighLine

Personally I play enough shorter rounds of golf during the winter so I'm only interested in 18 holes during the proper golf season. We ran our 9 Hole R&A qualifier (final takes place in Carnousti a week before The Open) at my home club at the weekend and there seemed to be very little interest.

Mantis Toboggan

I'd like to see some short skill based games like chip and putt comps, putting comps, target range games etc.

Webbs

I'm all for it, our club have started to run 9 hole comps every other week on a Friday and Saturday. This alternates with a fourball 18 hole on the other Fri/Sat. The regular 18 hole singles club competition is on as usual then every Sunday.

Lots of guys I know can get out for 9 on fri eve or sat morning especially those who have kids or have other commitments on weekends, will have to see if its a success or not

fred funk }{

We started a 10 hole comp this year. 10 holes every Friday evening and it's been a huge success. We had about 70 play it last Friday and most people stay to socialise in the club house afterwards.

prawnsambo

fred funk }{ wrote: »

We started a 10 hole comp this year. 10 holes every Friday evening and it's been a huge success. We had about 70 play it last Friday and most people stay to socialise in the club house afterwards.

Yeah, this is the advantage of 9 hole comps. They can be run at times that ordinarily wouldn't be that busy and would attract players who otherwise might just potter about of an evening.

Mantis Toboggan

9 holes scramble Friday evening after work followed by a bbq would be ideal, we've done it occasionally and it's generally a success weather dependent.

Glebee

I love a quick 9 hole, just get around quick enough before anyone in the office notices your gone.....

jclack

I play 9 holes on Sunday morning with society, tee off by 7.45 and allows me to be home by 10 which is perfect with young kids. I'm only able to swing it with herself as it's very quick and rest of day is for kids stuff.
Would definitely be up for joining a club that did some initiatives like this for golfers who can't commit 5 hours at a go.

Mantis Toboggan

Yeah the 9 holes societies are getting more popular, definitely a good idea.

FixdePitchmark

There are so many options for short golf - you can understand why R&A went for a straightforward standardized option.

If you got a good few golf experts together - you could come up with a good 10 options + of shortening golf.

Short golf courses are the most obvious options - likes of (Corballis, RCD Annesly, Portstewart 2nd and 3rd courses, Spanish Point, Sutton)
They don't tend to be found as much on Parkland courses - Know a few courses have practice holes, Grange Castle - par 3 course Heritage, Portlaoise golf club (extended now)

The clubs that have plenty of money - and sense, have made a small secondary course part of their set up. I can see the logic of this - for beginners , older golfers, juniors, over flow, a fun few holes. Going out onto a championship course for a few holes can be a bit OTT , time consuming and too difficult.

So if you had a blank page - you would first look at course design. All the courses I've mentioned above you can do in less than 2 hours up to about 3.

But alas - we are where we are. The course we have now - even the older ones , are now somewhat extended and over large areas of land - with big walks and most are bloody difficult.

I've played a few courses that were built over that crazy period of say 2000 to 2010 - and in relation to fast golf, they are just daft. So long, hard , full of walks , cart paths and walks. We all know them and we all love them as a trip. But I've been on some of them for over 5 hours. Society go to them and they are totally unsuitable.

If we can't use a shortened course - we could look at a totally new set of tees or course routing.
Whilst 1 to 9 - 9 to 18 seems sensible, most club golfers have come up with far better routes on their course. These routes could avoid the long - hard - lower index holes and would be like 1 to 4 , 9 - 15-16-17-18. Most people have their evening route they can do in about 90 mins.

We probably shouldn't be targeting a balanced 9 - par 36 course - I accept that the indexing of this would be an exercise in itself - but it is done for winter.

Anyway - It probably is a dumbing down of golf - but the more people I'm exposed to in golf - I see that coming down and playing 4 to 6 holes is a real part of golf.
The idea of having qualifying golf over 9 holes in summer more, is very good.

The one thing I would mention - extra competitions, more marking of cards and results and handicap changes. It takes volunteers to do all this in a club. You'd hope technology will fix this over time.

happydan

Would love some 9 holes competitions, no lasers /gps, 6 club limit in bag

GreeBo

happydan wrote: »

Would love some 9 holes competitions, no lasers /gps, 6 club limit in bag

I think lasers speed up the game.
People who want to know their distance will start pacing things out if you dont let them use lasers.

I bet the pros would be quicker if you gave them a laser (and took away their caddy!)

Loire

Time is the reason I've ditched golf for tennis. With a young family I just couldn't make it work. I would love a decent par 3 course with holes from 120-220 yards. You'd fly around and cover 90% of the game. Once a week at the range for the woods then and you'd be covered.

CalamariFritti

We have (for many years) 11 hole comps midweek evenings in the summer. Say from 3 or 4 o clock until 7 or 8 depending on daylight.
Fourball on Tuesdays. Long Handicaps on Wednesdays. Seniors on Thursdays.
They are quite popular and like what a previous poster said they result in bar and kitchen revenue.
They are not qualifying though.

Me personally I like the Tuesday fourball enough and play on and off in it. But i wouldn’t be devastated if I never played it again either. It’s nice to have these comps but they restrict me if I want to practice on the course after work. I don’t care either way.
I like my 18 hole comps Friday evening and Sunday.

Mushy

Nice article in the Examiner regarding the numbers moving towards shorter qualifying rounds. 200% increase, really shows the future of what is needed

GreeBo

Mushy wrote: »

Nice article in the Examiner regarding the numbers moving towards shorter qualifying rounds. 200% increase, really shows the future of what is needed

What are the raw figures?
200% could be 2 guys found 2 more guys to play with.

stockdam

Skerries have been running 9 hole "competitions" on a Friday evening for years (just show up and play).

Mushy

GreeBo wrote: »

Mushy wrote: »

Nice article in the Examiner regarding the numbers moving towards shorter qualifying rounds. 200% increase, really shows the future of what is needed

What are the raw figures?
200% could be 2 guys found 2 more guys to play with.

Oooh can't remember off hand now, but it's up to over 2,000 scores input for qualifying rounds of 9 holes.

I know I'd prefer it, get out after work and do an 18 hole at weekend (or maybe 9 depends on what's happening).

Scratch that, link here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/golf/irish-turn-to-nine-hole-rounds-due-to-time-constraints-470685.html

Over 7,000 entries

GreeBo

Mushy wrote: »

Oooh can't remember off hand now, but it's up to over 2,000 scores input for qualifying rounds of 9 holes.

I know I'd prefer it, get out after work and do an 18 hole at weekend (or maybe 9 depends on what's happening).

Scratch that, link here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/golf/irish-turn-to-nine-hole-rounds-due-to-time-constraints-470685.html

Over 7,000 entries

Im pushing for 9/12 holes on a saturday morning before the main comp starts (by starting it on the 7th etc)
but the issue is getting the course ready for play by that time

Mushy

GreeBo wrote: »

Mushy wrote: »

Oooh can't remember off hand now, but it's up to over 2,000 scores input for qualifying rounds of 9 holes.

I know I'd prefer it, get out after work and do an 18 hole at weekend (or maybe 9 depends on what's happening).

Scratch that, link here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/golf/irish-turn-to-nine-hole-rounds-due-to-time-constraints-470685.html

Over 7,000 entries

Im pushing for 9/12 holes on a saturday morning before the main comp starts (by starting it on the 7th etc)
but the issue is getting the course ready for play by that time

I think it'd be great idea, will suggest it when next down at the club. Or particularly on like a Wednesday evening, although I don't know what numbers are like if there would be interest.

Seve OB

I'm a traditionalist and like my 18 holes, but 9 holes just as good of a friday evening after work
shotgun starts are great, brings everyone together afterwards.....that is of they bother to come in for a drink/grub... to many don't , sometimes understandibly people have other commitments.

also think clubs should have fun evenings, skills competitions, long drive on the trackman, long putts, chipping close to pin, bbq. box off a few hours and a couple of holes, creates a great buzz, Castleknock did it once (maybe more) but it was a great fun evening.

Night golf is good craic too

mjsc1970

Our course is only a 9 hole course, by there has always been 9 hole Singles comps pretty much every Wednesday throughout the year. They are non qualifying but very popular and generates good revenue in bar and restaurant.

On Saturdays we have our 18 holes singles from Spring to Autumn, but, at the end of the afternoon timesheet, for the last 3years there are slots available for 9 hole qualifying. Some of the older members and those that don't have the time for 18 use these. They're a great idea.

GreeBo

Seve OB wrote: »

I'm a traditionalist and like my 18 holes, but 9 holes just as good of a friday evening after work
shotgun starts are great, brings everyone together afterwards.....that is of they bother to come in for a drink/grub... to many don't , sometimes understandibly people have other commitments.

also think clubs should have fun evenings, skills competitions, long drive on the trackman, long putts, chipping close to pin, bbq. box off a few hours and a couple of holes, creates a great buzz, Castleknock did it once (maybe more) but it was a great fun evening.

Night golf is good craic too

Shotguns are the bane of my life!

You rock down at 7 to play a few casual holes and cant get out because every hole is in use for the next 2 hours. :mad:

Seve OB

GreeBo wrote: »

Shotguns are the bane of my life!

You rock down at 7 to play a few casual holes and cant get out because every hole is in use for the next 2 hours. :mad:

I'm not talking every night.... Like maybe twice a month!

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

What are the raw figures?
200% could be 2 guys found 2 more guys to play with.

That would be 100% Ted.

billy3sheets

If it's faster golf you're after why not go for the wider hole idea? This would speed up 18 holes considearbly and you'd still have the normal long game with fewer putts?
The article below reckons a 15-inch hole knocks 1 hour off a 4-hour 4-ball game.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/04/golf-15-inch-holes

GreeBo

PARlance wrote: »

That would be 100% Ted.

Jogathon

This is kind of related. I live in Abu Dhabi and one of the courses here has developed an all Par 3, nine hole course beside the exceptionally beautiful championship course. I play most Mondays in a shotgun start mini competition. It's quick, and I use my 5 wood on some holes as they can be up to 200yards long. It's floodlit too, so you can play until 10 at night. It's great fun, and feels like golf, but is quick and ideal for a weeknight.

GreeBo

Jogathon wrote: »

This is kind of related. I live in Abu Dhabi and one of the courses here has developed an all Par 3, nine hole course beside the exceptionally beautiful championship course. I play most Mondays in a shotgun start mini competition. It's quick, and I use my 5 wood on some holes as they can be up to 200yards long. It's floodlit too, so you can play until 10 at night. It's great fun, and feels like golf, but is quick and ideal for a weeknight.

Sounds great, though really you should be laying up on that long one

charlieIRL

I think 9 hole competitions are a good idea but as my post from another thread stated, they need to be done right.

They are a great idea........if done right.

My club brought them in a few years ago and have them on the same day as our midweek open but they are not counting which is a joke in my eyes. Any Thursday I head over and its only lads playing 9 holes and nobody playing 18. Grand - you get in and out in well under 2 hours and they alternate the 9 every week - but its pointless if its not counting.

I brought it up with last years captain and his reply "Sure nobody would play them if they were counting" I was left speechless, there's prizes for them but no cuts.

Its actually part of the reason why I'm seriously contemplating am moving clubs this year, I put a lot of work into my game last year and went to our open days to try get cut and nothing. Have had a good few 20 plus 9 hole scores with one 25 and i didn't even make the final of it at the end of the year.

joxer1988

billy3sheets wrote: »

If it's faster golf you're after why not go for the wider hole idea? This would speed up 18 holes considearbly and you'd still have the normal long game with fewer putts?
The article below reckons a 15-inch hole knocks 1 hour off a 4-hour 4-ball game.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/04/golf-15-inch-holes

Wouldn't a gimme inside a 15" radius have the same impact without compromising the game as much...?

Seve OB

joxer1988 wrote: »

Wouldn't a gimme inside a 15" radius have the same impact without compromising the game as much...?

nope
a gimme is an extra shot.. a bigger hole is.... well..... boring/less of a challenge

but regards to speed, would work out the same, mind you, i cant really see the pace being much quicker

and as for 15" gimmees..... well, ive seen them missed!!!!

joxer1988

Seve OB wrote: »

nope
a gimme is an extra shot.. a bigger hole is.... well..... boring/less of a challenge

but regards to speed, would work out the same, mind you, i cant really see the pace being much quicker

and as for 15" gimmees..... well, ive seen them missed!!!!

I've missed them!!

I was thinking about the impact on the speed of the game but on second thought, I suppose lining up a putt in a normal hole vs a 15" hole takes a fair bit longer. Chipping etc.

Plus - I live in North Am and 3 foot gimmes don't make the game faster! I think that's just the clientele though...

GreeBo

billy3sheets wrote: »

If it's faster golf you're after why not go for the wider hole idea? This would speed up 18 holes considearbly and you'd still have the normal long game with fewer putts?
The article below reckons a 15-inch hole knocks 1 hour off a 4-hour 4-ball game.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/04/golf-15-inch-holes

I'd strongly advise not watching the video on that link.

Yunno what would speed up those guys?
A lesson! :cool:

Seriously though, I think its a terrible idea. Why not just make the goal hitting the green in that case?

Also, most higher handicap competitions are stableford, typically the time is wasted getting to the green, not putting, since you should be picking up once you are out. (Ignoring the incoming 54 handicaps of course...)

Irishdaywalker

decided yesterday to play 9 holes in my club, was only heading up for a knockabout, but turned out there was a 9 hole competition (qualifying) - which was great, as it made you concentrate more on the shorter round, where as before I would just be going through the motions as opposed to playing a standard 18 holes competition. The fact that it was a qualifying scorecard it had that added incentive, not sure how it works when it comes to handicap adjustments.

Jogathon

GreeBo wrote: »

Jogathon wrote: »

This is kind of related.  I live in Abu Dhabi and one of the courses here has developed an all Par 3, nine hole course beside the exceptionally beautiful championship course. I play most Mondays in a shotgun start mini competition.  It's quick, and I use my 5 wood on some holes as they can be up to 200yards long. It's floodlit too, so you can play until 10 at night. It's great fun, and feels like golf, but is quick and ideal for a weeknight.

Sounds great, though really you should be laying up on that long one

I am a female, and that is laying up!

IITYWYBMAD

GreeBo wrote: »

I'd strongly advise not watching the video on that link.

Yunno what would speed up those guys?
A lesson! :cool:

Seriously though, I think its a terrible idea. Why not just make the goal hitting the green in that case?

Also, most higher handicap competitions are stableford, typically the time is wasted getting to the green, not putting, since you should be picking up once you are out. (Ignoring the incoming 54 handicaps of course...)

I think it's a good idea. Would I play in it? No, I don't think so, as I prefer the more traditional form of the game.

Assuming you watched the video, and despite a section of the article being about speeding up the game, the main thrust of the video/article was to try and bring more players back or into the sport.

It looks 'fun' and while I accept that the video is done very much in the spirit of a PR piece, the people did genuinely seem to enjoy it. Good for them, I'd 100% (or 200%) back it, should it be proven to bring more people to the sport.

ShivasIrons

Shorter formats of golf have always been there, at every club you see golfers heading out for any number of holes, whether it's just 2,3 or 4 or 9 or 12.



There's no need for a push for something that happens already.


The idea that the anytime that some one plays they should be in a competition and keep score is a bad one. The push for 6 hole and 9 hole competitions so there's a competition every single day is not a good idea.

GreeBo

ShivasIrons wrote: »

should it be proven to bring more people to the sport.

Whatever it's bringing them to is not golf.
Sport requires some element of skill, hitting a hole thats 18" in diameter doesn't take much skill, unless you are going to reduce the par of every hole by 1?

Seve OB

GreeBo wrote: »

Whatever it's bringing them to is not golf.
Sport requires some element of skill, hitting a hole thats 18" in diameter doesn't take much skill, unless you are going to reduce the par of every hole by 1?

So there is no skill in getting the ball from tee to green?

GreeBo

ShivasIrons wrote: »

The idea that the anytime that some one plays they should be in a competition and keep score is a bad one. The push for 6 hole and 9 hole competitions so there's a competition every single day is not a good idea.

I dont think its that it *should* be a competition, just that it could.

If you dont have 4 free, consecutive hours to play golf then at the moment its pretty hard to maintain a valid handicap.

Shorter, qualifying rounds will mean that more people get to hold a valid handicap, which I'm very much ok with!

GreeBo

Seve OB wrote: »

So there is no skill in getting the ball from tee to green?

What colour medal do they give at the Olympics for the person who is fastest over the first 20M?

The game is put the ball in the hole in as few shots as possible.
Making this easier means you reduce the skill required to play the game.