The mess on the Grand Canal

theyoungchap

I have never in my life witnessed anything like the mess on the Grand Canal after the weekend's fine weather.
The place looked like somewhere where rubbish was pushed into a dump.
What is it about Irish people that we can't seem to take our rubbish home with us, think it is OK to urinate in the canal (where swans, fish, etc make their home).
We must be the scummiest nation of people in Europe. What can we do to change this?
I personally favour :
1. A deposit on bottles, cans, etc.
2. An enforcement of the intoxicating liquor bye law (http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-recreation-culture/intoxicating-liquor-bye-laws)
but above all
3. People taking some responsiblity, bring it home with you.

It is not up to DCC to provide more bins, toilets etc - these people are breakin the law by drinking there in the first place. Let people drink and urinate in their back gardens all they want.

A deposit on bottles, cans, etc.
I was in Cologne recently and the deposit scheme there works fantastically well. I think it was €0.08 on glass bottles and €0.25 on plastic. People were sitting out enjoying beers along the river, and others were approaching them when they were finished with their bottles offering to take them away. Some enterprising folk had wagons or carts attached to their bicycles so they could collect large volumes of bottles. A negligible amount to pay for the deposit, but it offered an incentive for others to collect empty containers to be returned for cash.

heebusjeebus

It's not just Irish people making a mess of the place. Plenty of foreigners there too.
It was a disgrace though. Walking through yesterday morning and there was a smell of stale beer and p1ss. There are a load of bins there now so no excuse to be leaving rubbish on the banks and in the water.
Fair play to the council though as they had the power hose out cleaning the foothpaths around the square in Portobello.

theyoungchap

I've heard about the German system, sounds like it works well.
The rancid smell of stale beer and p1ss, we should probably be glad of today's rain.
I am sure there were plenty of foreigners there too but we shouldn't bring race into it - is it just a cultural thing that we (people living in Ireland) feel we don't have to clean up after ourselves? I have friends in Australia and if you bring it to the beach/park/etc you bring it back. Why don't we have a similar attitude here?
Do we just think litter is "sombody else's problem"?

theyoungchap

downtheroad wrote: »

A deposit on bottles, cans, etc.
I was in Cologne recently and the deposit scheme there works fantastically well. I think it was €0.08 on glass bottles and €0.25 on plastic. People were sitting out enjoying beers along the river, and others were approaching them when they were finished with their bottles offering to take them away. Some enterprising folk had wagons or carts attached to their bicycles so they could collect large volumes of bottles. A negligible amount to pay for the deposit, but it offered an incentive for others to collect empty containers to be returned for cash.

My cousin lives in Germany and says you'd never see a bottle on a street because if somebody threw one there, a homeless fellah would clean it up and get the deposit back.

heebusjeebus

theyoungchap wrote: »

I am sure there were plenty of foreigners there too but we shouldn't bring race into it - is it just a cultural thing that we (people living in Ireland) feel we don't have to clean up after ourselves? I have friends in Australia and if you bring it to the beach/park/etc you bring it back. Why don't we have a similar attitude here?

Well you started it by blaming the Irish exclusively.
I walk past the canal twice a day and I can be sure it's 50/50 Irish and non-irish.

I can understand the issue when the bins were overflowing a few weeks ago, but now with so many new bins there, it's ridiculous.

theyoungchap

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Well you started it by blaming the Irish exclusively.
I walk past the canal twice a day and I can be sure it's 50/50 Irish and non-irish.

I can understand the issue when the bins were overflowing a few weeks ago, but now with so many new bins there, it's ridiculous.

What I meant was, in this country. Monkey see, monkey do. I am sure there are plenty of decent people there who do it because "ah sure, nobody else is cleaning up, why should I bother". They would probably not do it if they were on their own in a park for example.
But fair enough though, incorrect choice of words.

theyoungchap

theyoungchap wrote: »

downtheroad wrote: »

A deposit on bottles, cans, etc.
I was in Cologne recently and the deposit scheme there works fantastically well. I think it was €0.08 on glass bottles and €0.25 on plastic. People were sitting out enjoying beers along the river, and others were approaching them when they were finished with their bottles offering to take them away. Some enterprising folk had wagons or carts attached to their bicycles so they could collect large volumes of bottles. A negligible amount to pay for the deposit, but it offered an incentive for others to collect empty containers to be returned for cash.

My cousin lives in Germany and says you'd never see a bottle on a street because if somebody threw one there, a homeless fellah would clean it up and get the deposit back.

Sure we were walking down the equivalent of Grafton St in Cologne one of the days and my mate finished a bottle of water and looked around for a bin to put it in, only to find a person standing behind him with his hand out waiting to take the bottle from him. It's almost impossible to litter over there

heebusjeebus

theyoungchap wrote: »

What I meant was, in this country. Monkey see, monkey do. I am sure there are plenty of decent people there who do it because "ah sure, nobody else is cleaning up, why should I bother". They would probably not do it if they were on their own in a park for example.
But fair enough though, incorrect choice of words.

Would love to see the deposit scheme for bottles & cans introduced though.
Did we ever have it before? I remember as a kid collecting cans but memory is hazy.

theyoungchap

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Would love to see the deposit scheme for bottles & cans introduced though.
Did we ever have it before? I remember as a kid collecting cans but memory is hazy.

There was one in the 1980's I am fairly sure, particularly on glass bottles though I think. It is a no-brainer.

heebusjeebus

Thanks OP.
This thread got me off my ar$e and I've emailed my local TD asking her to implement a deposit and return scheme for cans and glass bottles.

CrankyHaus

theyoungchap wrote: »

There was one in the 1980's I am fairly sure, particularly on glass bottles though I think. It is a no-brainer.

What was the rationale for removing it and what prevents it from being reinstated?
Smells like a vested interest to me.

theyoungchap

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Thanks OP.
This thread got me off my ar$e and I've emailed my local TD asking her to implement a deposit and return scheme for cans and glass bottles.

If everybody did that, it might push it forward. Let us know the response!
I don't know why it was scrapped, probably because some FF supporter ran a bottle factory.....

heebusjeebus

CrankyHaus wrote: »

What was the rationale for removing it and what prevents it from being reinstated?
Smells like a vested interest to me.

This article is from July 2017:
http://www.thejournal.ie/recycling-bottles-cans-3488090-Jul2017/

Two recent independent reports which looked at the feasibility of a deposit and return scheme in Ireland were carried out in 2009 and 2014, with both concluding the cost would outweigh the benefits.

In my email to Catherine Byrne, I mentioned that the benefits would be less "work" for the council bin men, and less waste thrown into the canals & parks.

The second reason is not a monetary benefit but it's certainly an important benefit for those of us living in the area.

.......

This post has been deleted.

theyoungchap

heebusjeebus wrote: »

This article is from July 2017:
http://www.thejournal.ie/recycling-bottles-cans-3488090-Jul2017/



In my email to Catherine Byrne, I mentioned that the benefits would be less "work" for the council bin men, and less waste thrown into the canals & parks.

The second reason is not a monetary benefit but it's certainly an important benefit for those of us living in the area.

Could you ask her for a break down of the set up costs v operating costs? I'd rather spend 120m on that and see tangible benefits than some of the nonsense we spend that sort of money on!

L1011

CrankyHaus wrote: »

What was the rationale for removing it and what prevents it from being reinstated?
Smells like a vested interest to me.

It was removed because drinks manufacturers found that single use (and at that stage completely unrecyclable) plastic bottles or municipally recycled cans were cheaper - for them.

It was run by the drinks manufacturers not enforced by the state. There are very few places that optional systems still work, some beer in the Netherlands is still sold in returnable bottles and in returnable plastic crates, rather than cans and plastic wrapped slabs

catrionanic

I live along the canal and it’s a real problem. And people aren’t just urinating in the canal - they’re urinating in people’s gardens and on the footpaths where young children are playing the following day.

It’s also an antisocial issue because we often find it hard to sleep at night, with all the noise from the people drinking.

Our local councillor is enraged by it and has been trying to meet with the local gardaí but they keep fobbing her off.

Riskymove

L1011 wrote: »

It was removed because drinks manufacturers found that single use (and at that stage completely unrecyclable) plastic bottles or municipally recycled cans were cheaper - for them.

yes basically only alcohol is left in glass bottles and at that only a perentage

it used to be that all milk and soft drink etc were in glass and the scheme was then viable

if a glass and plastic return scheme was introduced it may be viable

TheAnalyst_

Irish people are dirty knackers. Its unfortunately genetic.

kildare lad

as someone who fishes the grand canal, the amount of rubbish that is left on the bank is sickening. A lot, but not all eastern europeans have no respect for wildlife or the environment in this country. In hot weather gangs of them hit the canals, drink, lit fires, poach fish, then leave all their rubbish on the bank. Ive found disposable, bbqs, every item of rubbish is bought in Aldi or lidl. Its all just dump there, when they leave. I always end up bringing a lot of it home because most of the stuff is recyclable. These are grown men as well, in there 30's or 40's that are doing it.

I think irish teenagers are fairly messy as well. A lot of them finish what they're eating and throw it on the ground when there's a bin 20 or 30 metres anyway. If i did that when i was younger my auld lad wouldnt be long giving me a clip on the ear. If they implemented a system that they have in Australia, where they give you 10c for every can thats returned. Id guarantee you'd see less rubbish on the street.

Riskymove

kildare lad wrote: »

. Ive found disposable, bbqs, every item of rubbish is bought in Aldi or lidl. Its all just dump there, when they leave.

This is common, sure just look at all the stuff left behind at festivals - tents, wellies etc even before we get to litter

people can afford to just buy chepa stuff and leave it behind.

Pete_Cavan

I doubt a bottle return scheme would make any difference, particularly around the canals. I can't see the people who refuse to clean up after themselves at present doing so for the sake of a few quid. The problem is a mindset and a lack of respect, a tiny financial incentive is not going to change that. Not littering is easy to do, I can't see the people who engage in it taking on the hassle needed to reclaim a small amount of money. Others may decide to collect items in order to claim the money but shifting the problem to others is not a good solution, particularly if it preserves homelessness or funds addiction. It doesn't address the actual problem (that people think it is OK to litter) and will still leave other forms of litter behind (wrappers, bags, food containers, etc.) which has to be dealt with, not to mention the piss.

joeysoap

20c a bottle, (build it into the minimum pricing) and while some would still litter, there would be enough people collecting the empty’s to make it work.

Same with cans, should have been introduced with the sugar tax.

spurious

Just back from Sweden where the refund is about 10c on a 500ml plastic bottle and 20c on the bigger ones.

What really grinds my gears is when the filth that leave a place in the state Portobello was in say 'oh that's the Corporation's job'. Parenting strikes again.

mattser

spurious wrote: »

Just back from Sweden where the refund is about 10c on a 500ml plastic bottle and 20c on the bigger ones.

What really grinds my gears is when the filth that leave a place in the state Portobello was in say 'oh that's the Corporation's job'. Parenting strikes again.

Nail on head. The sense of entitlement is nauseous.
So many people with pride of place around the country, but the filthy minority really make their mark.

RasTa

Germans drink their local stuff, we drink foreign beer so no incentive to return for a bottle deposit by heniken and carlsberg etc.

Goverment should just stick an extra 10c on cans/bottles refundable upon return

irlirishkev

Myself and herself walked the canal on Sunday, around 3pm.
Obviously the canal bank was heaving with people. Most of whom drinking. Lots settling in for the day with boxes of cans, backpacks of bottles/cans/food etc..

The Gardai were keeping an active presence up and down the canal, both on bikes, and stationed outside the Barge, keeping people from spilling over to the canal bank and drinking at that point.

DCC were already going up and down with road-sweepers, both the engine-brushy kind, and manual-stick kind.

Massive bins up and down the hotspots. Loads of room for rubbish.

"Great" we thought. "Tackling the litter problem. Good on the Gardai and the Council".

Clearly, there's no hope for us. People just couldn't give a sh*t. Scummy people that is. And there seems to be plenty

loyatemu

RasTa wrote: »

Germans drink their local stuff, we drink foreign beer so no incentive to return for a bottle deposit by heniken and carlsberg etc.

Heineken and Carlsberg are brewed and bottled here.

Rechuchote

heebusjeebus wrote: »

This article is from July 2017:
http://www.thejournal.ie/recycling-bottles-cans-3488090-Jul2017/

In my email to Catherine Byrne, I mentioned that the benefits would be less "work" for the council bin men, and less waste thrown into the canals & parks.

The second reason is not a monetary benefit but it's certainly an important benefit for those of us living in the area.

Exactly.

We brought four jam jars to the local cinema as an entry fee - I think the cinema returned them en masse to Fruitfield for payment.

The many countries that have deposit-return schemes for plastic bottles and aluminium cans don't find that the cost outweighs the benefits. That's pure laziness by our politicians.

For all the people leaping to the press where they keep their scourge handy for a quick bit of national self-flagellation, nope, it's not Irish people - it's drunks.

Most of the litter on our street comes from three groups - smokers, who drop their butts and packets and cellophane, fast-food addicts, who drop their nasty plastic-lined cups and plastic lids and polystyrene and cardboard greasefood containers, and drunks, who drop both of the above plus their cans and those plastic yokes that hold slabs of cans together and which are so fatal for fish and wildlife.

Even if the drunks want to lie around in their filth peeing and vomiting, a deposit-return scheme will at least get rid of their plastic bottles and aluminium cans. A big benefit for society.

fatknacker

Can't blame people for widdling on the streets if there are no toilets. People need to pee. There are no toilets. Establishments say theirs are for customers only. What's a person to do. Try being a woman with a full bladder. It's not fun.

Rechuchote

fatknacker wrote: »

Can't blame people men for widdling on the streets if there are no toilets. People Men need to pee. There are no toilets. Establishments say theirs are for customers only. What's a person to do. Try being a woman with a full bladder. It's not fun.

Fixed your P.

thebaz

heebusjeebus wrote: »

It's not just Irish people making a mess of the place. Plenty of foreigners there too.
It was a disgrace though.

It is an Irish thing though - as soon as the sum comes out Irish people think they have a right to just dump ther waste wherever - bottles/ plastic bottles/food debris / nappies - its a horrible trait that I hate in many Irish - obvioulsy not all , but a good 20% , and not just kids - those dumping nappies are hardly such

irlirishkev

fatknacker wrote: »

Can't blame people for widdling on the streets if there are no toilets. People need to pee. There are no toilets. Establishments say theirs are for customers only. What's a person to do. Try being a woman with a full bladder. It's not fun.

Rechuchote wrote: »

Fixed your P.

Believe me, women do it too, they just hide behind the bush/tree/wall instead of up against it. Some don't even bother doing that.

Anyway, back on topic - Down with litterbugs!

GreeBo

I was in Marlay Park at the (glorious) weekend and it was the exact same.

There was a family sitting on the grass beside the main playground, the "father" finished his flagon of cider and just pushed the empty bottle into the hedge behind him without a second thought. I'd be willing to bet they stood up and left whatever crap they didnt want on the ground behind them.

The crazy thing is these are the very same people who give out about the "state of the place", talk about sh1tting in your own backyard.
They probably smash their own bus shelters too!


Add to that the terribly civic minded people who bring their empties to a bottle bank after a bank holiday weekend and then just abandon the bottles, bags and all beside them when they are full.

Who exactly do they think is going to sort and tidy all that up?

The entitlement is strong with these ones.

L1011

Riskymove wrote: »

yes basically only alcohol is left in glass bottles and at that only a perentage

it used to be that all milk and soft drink etc were in glass and the scheme was then viable

if a glass and plastic return scheme was introduced it may be viable

It was viable because of the bottles being washed and reused (not recycled by crushing/melting/reforming as they are now); and plastic bottles simply not existing. The second PET bottles came out they ceased being viable.

The international government-run schemes are all glass and plastic.

loyatemu wrote: »

Heineken and Carlsberg are brewed and bottled here.

Only draught Heineken is brewed here these days, although its possible they do bottle it here after bulk tankering. Cans/bottles are Dutch brewed.

Assetbacked

The introduction of a nominal financial incentive for returning cans and bottles is essentially contracting cleaners for ****e all money. To many, the refund is so low that it would not be worth the hassle but for others it is seen as a fantastic opportunity to make some cash ("One man's trash is another man's gold"). I think vested interests in the Corpo would invent reasons to not implement it. However, I think it can only be a positive scheme to introduce.

The article quoted in this thread which outlined a roll-out cost is misleading as the roll-out cost is funded by the scheme itself.

spurious

spurious wrote: »

Just back from Sweden where the refund is about 10c on a 500ml plastic bottle and 20c on the bigger ones.

What really grinds my gears is when the filth that leave a place in the state Portobello was in say 'oh that's the Corporation's job'. Parenting strikes again.

Last Saturday evening, I noticed a couple of Gardai and some security people around. The crowd seemed more scattered than usual. Maybe some effort is being made to stop such crowds congregating in the one place.

There's no excuse for people littering and not taking their rubbish home with them.

hatrickpatrick

What people persistently miss about the lifestyle of many young people in Dublin is that most of them aren't going "home" after an outdoor session, they're moving on to a bar or club when it gets dark. You can't bring a crate of empty bottles into Coppers or Diceys with you, hence they leave it behind. And whether you like it or not, trying to convince them to go home and them come back out - which in some cases would involve a lengthy bus or train journey - just won't fly.

The real issue is that Dublin isn't designed for the outdoor social lifestyle at all. Outdoor spaces are designed with the mentality that if you're outside, you're just transiting from A to B. The idea of a large crowd of people congregating in a public space to have an outdoor day of socialising simply doesn't seem to have occurred to any city planners, hence the lack of public toilets and bins, the scarcity of outdoor seating, laws against drinking and loitering in public, etc. The problem is that this kind of lifestyle is now insanely popular and young people have simply rejected the idea that living and socialising in non-private spaces should be off limits. Why should it? Outdoor public spaces in the city should be kitted out for and designed to actually be used by people for things other than just "passing through".

Name one other city in Europe which doesn't have one single public toilet anywhere within it. I can't think of one. Down at Sandycove where I live, we never have any public urination problems despite the huge crowds of people who gather to drink and enjoy the sun together - why is this? Because there are several public toilets in and around the hotspots for social gatherings. Here's one of them:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.287344,-6.1150587,3a,24.5y,326.72h,82.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKqNhabgtW1sUssvsEcJ-Ew!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Regarding noise, I'd say the same thing to people that I say to people in the Croke Park threads - if you want a quiet, suburban style life then don't live in the middle of a capital city in a modern country. I live beside a large and very noisy outdoor market which takes place every weekend, but I don't complain about it because that's simple the price one pays for choosing to live in a busy area and not a remote or rural one.

The anti-public attitude by a lot of Irish people really amazes me, the idea that people shouldn't be able to use and enjoy public amenities. I'm not defending litter, but come on - Dublin is the capital city of Ireland and home to several million people. It is moronic that its outdoor spaces, such as the canal banks, are not equipped with the necessary facilities (seating, toilets, bins) for people to enjoy them for more than an hour at a time without having to go somewhere else to pee / throw away their stuff / sit down.

Ireland has a gigantic problem with "hostile design" as far as the utilisation of public spaces goes, and the situation at the canal over the weekend is a direct result of that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture

Most people in Ireland, particularly young people, simply do not want to live the way the powers that be want us to live. And it's very obvious that it's impossible for them to prevent it, so why can't they at least facilitate it properly?

Teyla Emmagan

hatrickpatrick wrote:

Most people in Ireland, particularly young people, simply do not want to live the way the powers that be want us to live. And it's very obvious that it's impossible for them to prevent it, so why can't they at least facilitate it properly?

We only have about 5 good days a year, we can't redesign the city around them. And there are more people living in Dublin than young people who want to go drinking. It's not too much to ask that people don't leave their rubbish outside your house and pee in your garden. People just need to have some respect and not act like a&&holes. If they behaved better the council might be more willing to facilitate 'outdoor living'.

mattser

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

We only have about 5 good days a year, we can't redesign the city around them. And there are more people living in Dublin than young people who want to go drinking. It's not too much to ask that people don't leave their rubbish outside your house and pee in your garden. People just need to have some respect and not act like a&&holes. If they behaved better the council might be more willing to facilitate 'outdoor living'.

Correct. Never mind the few hot days.

Every night the cartons/papers etc from the local fast food joints in our cities and towns and villages, are just flung on the ground. Despite there being a bin within arms reach in most cases.

A poster earlier in the thread, was told to fcuk off when they challenged one little sh1t about it.

Never mind the Gardai and Councils etc, the biggest reason for this behaviour is the self entitled perpetrators who have no pride and couldn't care less about their community.

dhaughton99

Repak would never allow a bottle return scheme, it would be messing with their agenda and profits.

“Overall, the empirical evidence and reviews considered in this report lead to the conclusion that there is no rationale or justification for introducing a deposit system in Ireland and that the costs involved would be significant, including the effects on Ireland’s existing packaging waste compliance infrastructure.”

https://www.repak.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/PMCA-Report-on-Deposit-and-Return-Scheme-in-Ireland-041217-FINAL.pdf

hatrickpatrick

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

We only have about 5 good days a year, we can't redesign the city around them. And there are more people living in Dublin than young people who want to go drinking.

I'm mking a more general point, that the city itself should have outdoor, public facilities rather than assuming that everyone in it either lives there or is on their way to a business premises of some kind. Most modern cities are designed like this, why does Ireland always have to be the exception when it comes to common sense public policy?

It's not too much to ask that people don't leave their rubbish outside your house and pee in your garden. People just need to have some respect and not act like a&&holes. If they behaved better the council might be more willing to facilitate 'outdoor living'.

Of course, I'm not condoning the assholes. But I disagree about the council being more willing, Dublin City Council have been like this for years and it's in stark contrast to other city councils in Ireland - I've already given one example, the difference between public amenities provided in Dun Laoghaire and the City Centre is ridiculous. Dun Laoghaire is a town which is really struggling at the moment and yet we have a more than adequate provision of bins and outdoor seating, and while we could certainly do with more public toilets at least we do have the few that are there, in the Peoples' Park and in Sandycove, as opposed to Dublin City Centre which has absolutely none.

This isn't just about young people either FFS, families trying to go out on a picnic in the city's green spaces will run into the same issues regarding a lack of bathroom facilities. In a modern capital city with several million citizens, it is simple ridiculous to leave sanitation entirely to private premises, end of story.

mattser

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm mking a more general point, that the city itself should have outdoor, public facilities rather than assuming that everyone in it either lives there or is on their way to a business premises of some kind. Most modern cities are designed like this, why does Ireland always have to be the exception when it comes to common sense public policy?



Of course, I'm not condoning the assholes. But I disagree about the council being more willing, Dublin City Council have been like this for years and it's in stark contrast to other city councils in Ireland - I've already given one example, the difference between public amenities provided in Dun Laoghaire and the City Centre is ridiculous. Dun Laoghaire is a town which is really struggling at the moment and yet we have a more than adequate provision of bins and outdoor seating, and while we could certainly do with more public toilets at least we do have the few that are there, in the Peoples' Park and in Sandycove, as opposed to Dublin City Centre which has absolutely none.

This isn't just about young people either FFS, families trying to go out on a picnic in the city's green spaces will run into the same issues regarding a lack of bathroom facilities. In a modern capital city with several million citizens, it is simple ridiculous to leave sanitation entirely to private premises, end of story.

100% agree with this part of your argument. In fairness the couple of times I've gone into a pub and asked to use the loo, I was allowed.
But you shouldn't have to beg to have a piddle.

Froshtbit

There i zero excuse for the litering you see in Dublin city at any time of the year. The area around Temple Street hospital,Dorset Street and Mountjoy Square.
There are bins, quite literally, everywhere. Tere must be one every 100 metres or so and still, rubbish is everywhere, dog-dirt, human-faeces household waste, syringes etc. It's ridiculous that people need to be encouraged to clean up after themselves with bins as convenient as they are.

At the canal, it's no different. WTF is wrong with people?

hatrickpatrick

mattser wrote: »

[/B]

100% agree with this part of your argument. In fairness the couple of times I've gone into a pub and asked to use the loo, I was allowed.
But you shouldn't have to beg to have a piddle.

Sandycove Beach, the Forty Foot and the little green, hilly area which spans the stretch from Newtownsmith as far as Sandycove Avenue are very frequently the setting for Portobello-esque outdoor drinking sessions by young folk during fine weather, and yet they never seem to get overrun by litter the way the city centre does. I was down at Sandycove the other day before heading into the canal, and when I came home in the evening there was no more than the usual amount of litter despite there having easily been several hundred people dancing and drinking in the sun for most of the day.

It's ridiculous to suggest that the difference in provision of public toilets and the abundance of regularly emptied public bins in Sandycove compared with the City Centre doesn't have at least some impact on this. Dun Laoghaire is an example of an area which has been explicitly designed for outdoor activities. The City Centre's public and green spaces are examples of areas which have explicitly not been designed for this, and that's what I object to. A modern capital city should not be an unwelcoming place for people who don't necessarily live or work immediately within its environs, or require them to unnecessarily become paying customers of (let's face it) exorbitantly expensive establishments in order to access basic sanitary facilities.

It's plain common sense, but that just seems to be completely absent from DCC.

Can anyone from other areas outside the remit of Dublin's City Council comment on whether their outdoor areas are properly provisioned for public use? Is Dun Laoghaire's foresight the exception here, or is DCC's complete lack of foresight the exception?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

L1011

dhaughton99 wrote: »

Repak would never allow a bottle return scheme, it would be messing with their agenda and profits.

“Overall, the empirical evidence and reviews considered in this report lead to the conclusion that there is no rationale or justification for introducing a deposit system in Ireland and that the costs involved would be significant, including the effects on Ireland’s existing packaging waste compliance infrastructure.”

https://www.repak.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/PMCA-Report-on-Deposit-and-Return-Scheme-in-Ireland-041217-FINAL.pdf

Repak's existence allowing retailers to skirt the requirements to take back product packaging is entirely at the gift of the State. They can easily find no reason to exist if they cause enough trouble.

That retailers are exempted from taking back unrecyclable packaging due to being Repak members is something that needs addressing as its patently ludicrous. Buy a fridge from most retailers* and its covered in styrofoam and plastic wrap that is no longer accepted in green bins.

*PowerCity are non-Repak and will take it back.

Dial Hard

Deleted User wrote:

There's no excuse for people littering and not taking their rubbish home with them.

This. If you brought it with you full then you can take it home with you empty. No excuses.

osarusan

I don't think they are going to put permanent infrastructure in place for a location that sees just a few days of that kind of activity each year.

(Perhaps they could develop other kinds of attractions in the area that would mean year-round visitors, and thus justify permanent infrastructure)

But I don't know why the council can't drop off a few bins, and maybe even portaloos, when it's obvious a boozing crowd is gathering.

That said, you'd still have some people littering and pissing around the place, because they are "mad bastards altogether."

hatrickpatrick

osarusan wrote: »

I don't think they are going to put permanent infrastructure in place for a location that sees just a few days of that kind of activity each year.

(Perhaps they could develop other kinds of attractions in the area that would mean year-round visitors, and thus justify permanent infrastructure)

But I don't know why the council can't drop off a few bins, and maybe even portaloos, when it's obvious a boozing crowd is gathering.

That said, you'd still have some people littering and pissing around the place, because they are "mad bastards altogether."

It would benefit the entire city though, I mean the canal is just one spot but the entire city is devoid of outdoor infrastructure. Why is it that we had it in the past, but we don't have it now? Dublin wasn't always this uninviting for day tourists:

Toilets: http://www.thejournal.ie/public-toilets-dublin-755462-Jan2013/

Bins: http://www.thejournal.ie/dcc-removes-public-bins-illegal-dumping-491596-Jun2012/

It's not rocket science. Remove such infrastructure, and habits and cleanliness will inevitably deteriorate. It's as simple and obvious as kicking something making it fall over. This is a failure of idiotic public policy as much as it is anything else. And again, Dublin City did it and it has resulted in problems - Dun Laoghaire did not do it and has far fewer problems. Despite both seeing huge amounts of congregation during good weather.

EDIT:

Each toilet block required staff – at one stage there were up to 400 people working as toilet attendants in the capital – and they, of course, needed to be paid. But by the 1980s, Ireland was in the grip of a recession, and Dublin City Council was looking at ways of tightening its belt. Such buildings, which had begun to attract drug users and other antisocial behaviour, were a drain on resources.

The ones in Sandycove are fully automated. Problem solved.