Nissan Leaf 40 Kwh driven.

Drove about 62 Kms, much better car than the old leaf.

This is "my opinion".

The extra power is good but it's got one major flaw as I expected, it has great difficulty putting the power down on anything but dry roads and even at that it can cause some wheel spin but on damp or wet roads it's just downright annoying dare I say dangerous, hit the throttle coming out of a bend and it can spin the wheels up to 60 kph and more, that's a joke. Torque steer etc pulling out of junctions and roundabouts is a pain if you want max power.

It handles as expected, it's an ordinary car and it's quiet comfortable even on rough broken roads, steering provides very little feel and the suspension is softer than my old SVE so it leans in corners , basically it's not a car for driving hard on back roads and if you do you will find yourself going a lot faster than you think you're going and have to use the brakes damn hard because of the handling.

On the motorway is a different story, it's got lots more power than the old Leaf so it goes 110 kph to 140 much faster and pulls well all the way to the limiter.

I wasn't too impressed with the stereo and nav unit or the menus, there's a lot of menus and I find the system in the i3 much better and easier to use.

The BOSE sounds as bad as it did in the old Leaf.

The Propilot is great, handles the M9 well , there was one instance where I felt it got a bit too close to a truck as I over took it but it is an impressive system, the danger of course is that if it disengages you might not be aware of it until it's too late so you need to keep on the ball but it would make motorway cruising and commuter traffic a breeze and quiet a bit less stressful.

I used it on the old M9 from the Castledermot turn off back into Carlow and it handled the bends without issue, very impressive and the roads were damp. Obviously it gets confused where lines in the road are worn or broken so with propilot as good as it is you need to be on the ball but on Motorways it should perform quiet well, yes having to have a hand on the wheel is a pain but I jut used a finger resting on the bottom so it could be quiet relaxing if not a bit too much so.

Interior is not bad, I personally find it much better than the Kona, however this is the Petrol Kona I'm judging it on but I don't think the EV version will be much better, the leaf isn't a bad place to sit at all.

Boot is larger and quiet practical.

Efficiency was from a low of 22 Kwh/100 Km to 20.1 by the time I got back to the garage, there was some over taking and hill climbing and stint on the M9 all the way to the limiter.

Charging was disappointing, It was charging at about 38 Kw from about 35%, I have a pic which I might upload later, the salesman drive it to work from Enniscorthy so wouldn't have been hammering it on that road. It's such a shame Nissan decided to choose the cheapest easiest route, the car is so much better than the old leaf so why p1ss on that by not including thermal management ?

Anyway having said all this considering the Quasqai is 31+ K for a 1.6 Diesel manual with less kit and no propilot, there is no way in hell I would choose that over the leaf 40 , none, 0 , even considering the charging issues so that's kind of saying a lot for the Leaf 40 Kwh.

Would I drive one ? well if I had to decide between quashqai or leaf then yes I would drive the leaf but it's nothing to drive like the i3 and I have myself spoiled now after driving the i3 that I'd consider a i3 S as my next car unless Nissan come up with something more special.

The Leaf 40 has flaws and the main flaw is the battery temp issue but this would not impact me or most people most of the time but it would be a right pain in the ass when you need to charge fast out on a long trip with a bit of spirited driving and it's a real shame because other than that the new Leaf is truly a great car and as I said if I had to choose a Nissan ,Kia , Opel I would still choose the new Leaf.

I think most people will be pretty happy with the new leaf especially those coming from the old one and even first timer EV drivers will be quiet impressed.

Mad_lad, you have check the spellchecker for that quiet vs quite issue. It gets quiet confusing, lol.

The ProPilot pongs when it loses the track of the roads, allowing you to begin to pay attention and you don't normally need worry about it at all. One thing that is annoying is the lane departure warning that seems to sound extra lot when using the pilot but when it can't find the road itself. Will probably switch off the warning in my car.

I find the new model to roll way less than the old SVE and the steering is faster too and the ride is definitely better than before. I still haven't tried an i3 but I expect them to corner flatter than any LEAF. What sort of range did you get from L40 compared to i3 without using the REX?

samih

samih wrote: »

Mad_lad, you have check the spellchecker for that quiet vs quite issue. It gets quiet confusing, lol.

It's "quite" hard sometimes to catch typos when you use voice recognition.

samih wrote: »

The ProPilot pongs when it loses the track of the roads, allowing you to begin to pay attention and you don't normally need worry about it at all. One thing that is annoying is the lane departure warning that seems to sound extra lot when using the pilot but when it can't find the road itself. Will probably switch off the warning in my car.

Yes it ponged but if you were distracted or half asleep lol. It would be "quite" handy coming off night shift I have to say.

samih wrote: »

I find the new model to roll way less than the old SVE and the steering is faster too and the ride is definitely better than before. I still haven't tried an i3 but I expect them to corner flatter than any LEAF. What sort of range did you get from L40 compared to i3 without using the REX?

Funny that, I instantly noticed how much softer it was compared to my old SVE and more body role but it was quiet comfortable even on broken roads, the old SVE seemed more planted to the road but I seriously doubt many Leaf buyers will complain about the ride to be honest, it's not a sporty car and people won't expect it to be.

I would consider the ride to be as soft and comfortable as the Ioniq, the rear suspension has been improved, it didn't get giddy on rough roads so that was nice to see an improvement there but as I said the old SVE was a lot stiffer which probably contributed to that, interesting you thought the new one is firmer but we both agree the suspension is better depending what you're after, while I feel the old Leaf was firmer the steering had very little feel which made it rather dull to drive.

I did not do any range tests, my test was mainly to test out the ride, steering, gadgets etc but the highest consumption I say was about 22 Kwh/100 kms on a short but fast motorway stint and 20.1 by the time I handed it back but was on slower roads most of the time but I was still driving it on and some over taking, this would suggest 190 Kms Max but I was driving far from efficiently, this was over about 60 Kms. 21 Kwh/100 Km would suggest 180 Km at legal motorway speeds to empty 38 Kwh, but remember the old Leaf had about 90 Kms at this speed so it gets about 100 Km more. Might be a bit worrying with the battery heating maybe.

I noticed the i3 a lot pokier from 60-100 Km/h and there probably isn't a lot between them after 110 Kph, this is where the i3S comes in , it has more poke after 100 kph but the Leaf pulls well after 110 Kph which is why I say it will be a lot happier on the motorway, wheel spin lets it down entirely at low speeds but a change to better wet grip tyres might help, I noticed a difference from the stock SVE Tyres to the Sport Bluresponse in the wet in the old Leaf but the wheel spin would annoy the sh1t out of me especially in the damp and wet.

unkel

Wheel spin in L40 worse than Ioniq in your experience? You only get full traction (and a 0-60 time of 8s) in Ioniq if the roads are bone dry. I'll definitely buy different tyres when the fronts are due replacing

zilog_jones

Deleted User wrote: »

Torque steer etc pulling out of junctions and roundabouts is a pain if you want max power.

Maybe the Nismo version will have an LSD, but it will cost you

liamog

Nice review Mad_Lad, hopefully we don't have to pick this one out from the middle of Leaf 2018 thread.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It's "quite" hard sometimes to catch typos when you use voice recognition.
.
.
.
Funny that, I instantly noticed how much softer it was compared to my old SVE and more body role but it was quiet comfortable even on broken roads, the old SVE seemed more planted to the road but I seriously doubt many Leaf buyers will complain about the ride to be honest, it's not a sporty car and people won't expect it to be.

I would consider the ride to be as soft and comfortable as the Ioniq, the rear suspension has been improved, it didn't get giddy on rough roads so that was nice to see an improvement there but as I said the old SVE was a lot stiffer which probably contributed to that, interesting you thought the new one is firmer but we both agree the suspension is better depending what you're after, while I feel the old Leaf was firmer the steering had very little feel which made it rather dull to drive.

I did not do any range tests, my test was mainly to test out the ride, steering, gadgets etc but the highest consumption I say was about 22 Kwh/100 kms on a short but fast motorway stint and 20.1 by the time I handed it back but was on slower roads most of the time but I was still driving it on and some over taking, this would suggest 190 Kms Max but I was driving far from efficiently, this was over about 60 Kms. 21 Kwh/100 Km would suggest 180 Km at legal motorway speeds to empty 38 Kwh, but remember the old Leaf had about 90 Kms at this speed so it gets about 100 Km more. Might be a bit worrying with the battery heating maybe.

I noticed the i3 a lot pokier from 60-100 Km/h and there probably isn't a lot between them after 110 Kph, this is where the i3S comes in , it has more poke after 100 kph but the Leaf pulls well after 110 Kph which is why I say it will be a lot happier on the motorway, wheel spin lets it down entirely at low speeds but a change to better wet grip tyres might help, I noticed a difference from the stock SVE Tyres to the Sport Bluresponse in the wet in the old Leaf but the wheel spin would annoy the sh1t out of me especially in the damp and wet.

LOL about the voice typing, that "quiet" explains it muhaha.

I still haven't gotten the new car to Wesht to test the suspension on "roads" but it does appear to steer quicker and stay flatter on the roundabouts etc. at least on normal speeds and the rear won't get so upset if there is a bump on the road mid corner. There is definitely less understeer now. I though the old SVE suspension got better the worst the roads got and the rear only started to work properly when driven progressively on bumpy roads or if there were extra passengers onboard. It handled load really well like when we had boot and back seat full of camping gear. I don't have enough data on the new car to see how it compares.

The 105->130 km/h overtake manoeuvre on motorway is very good. And it does appear that the real life range is exactly twice the L24. I have to admit I have tried to be mindful not to light the fronts to save on wear and like you non-OEM tyres worked much better on the old car for traction on wet.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Wheel spin in L40 worse than Ioniq in your experience? You only get full traction (and a 0-60 time of 8s) in Ioniq if the roads are bone dry. I'll definitely buy different tyres when the fronts are due replacing

The wheel spin is horrible but I never checked what tyres they were, once up past 60 Kph it wasn't much of a problem but come out of a bend under power and it's dangerous also climbing hills where you need more grip, could very well be the tyres, they were crap on the SVE in the wet on the stock tyres, they were EC300s, much less issue in the dry but still happens.

samih

samih wrote: »

LOL about the voice typing, that "quiet" explains it muhaha.

I still haven't gotten the new car to Wesht to test the suspension on "roads" but it does appear to steer quicker and stay flatter on the roundabouts etc. at least on normal speeds and the rear won't get so upset if there is a bump on the road mid corner. There is definitely less understeer now. I though the old SVE suspension got better the worst the roads got and the rear only started to work properly when driven progressively on bumpy roads or if there were extra passengers onboard. It handled load really well like when we had boot and back seat full of camping gear. I don't have enough data on the new car to see how it compares.

The 105->130 km/h overtake manoeuvre on motorway is very good. And it does appear that the real life range is exactly twice the L24. I have to admit I have tried to be mindful not to light the fronts to save on wear and like you non-OEM tyres worked much better on the old car for traction on wet.

It's great on back broken roads comfort wise.

The steering is better bit still could do with some more feel and now that I think of it , when I got back into the Leaf after the test in the i3 last July it was immediately noticeable how light the steering was as I nearly crashed into the roundabout due to the understeer which wasn't as noticeable going from the leaf back to the i3 however the suspension is definitely not geared for sporty driving but there's nothing wrong with that at all because most people driving the leaf won't be expecting brilliant handling or even know what steering feel is.

The rear suspension definitely is a lot better and hopefully the axle issue won't apply to this model.

Indeed it pulls well beyond 100 Kph and will be great on the motorway. Joining the M9 from the carlow South turn was a breeze it gets up to 140 with ease.

Getting back to the stereo, I just remembered it is supposed to have Android Auto and Car play correct ? if so then that should make it a lot easier to use, not a fan of touch screens in cars to be honest, the i3 system works brilliantly.

Definitely as soon as possible get rid of those tyres for A rated wet tyres, I didn't take not what was on it but would be interested to know the ratings for economy and grip.

zilog_jones

zilog_jones wrote: »

Maybe the Nismo version will have an LSD, but it will cost you

I'm not so sure lsd would be the solution to the poor grip after all the wheels are dragging a heavy car with lots of torque from the start.

RWD or 4WD would be much better.

Y2K86

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not so sure lsd would be the solution to the poor grip after all the wheels are dragging a heavy car with lots of torque from the start.

RWD or 4WD would be much better.

An LSD will help you put power down out of corner onto the correct wheel

Works beautifully with a revoknuckle system like Ford used on RS

Nismo Leaf wont need awd with such a system

I would hope Nissan do something, because I was less than impressed but in reality the tyres probably had a lot to do with it. When I got to dry ground it was a lot better and I remember the old Leaf SVE EC300 being good in the dry but p1ss poor in the wet.

zilog_jones

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not so sure lsd would be the solution to the poor grip after all the wheels are dragging a heavy car with lots of torque from the start.

An LSD would help reduce torque steer, which is what I commented on. It's a common problem with FWD cars that have any sort of power. It's not that heavy a car TBH.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

old Leaf SVE EC300 being good in the dry but p1ss poor in the wet.

The new LEAF has these too so that explains the excessive wheelspin in wet.

Those Dunlops lasted rather well under my old car. The last remaining one of the four was just at the wear indicator at 72k when I traded in the car. Its counterpart was lost earlier due to a puncture and the the other two lasted approx. 60k before replaced with some GoodYears that were much nicer as far as noise and wet grip was concerned. Probably less impressive with their wear rate.

ELM327

You've driven an Ioniq for a while aswell?
What is your favourite of the two?

As someone who has driven the 2 in the past 2 weeks and put my deposit on for my Ioniq in preference to the leaf 40 I'd be interested to hear your thoughts?

Soarer

ELM327 wrote: »

You've driven an Ioniq for a while aswell?
What is your favourite of the two?

As someone who has driven the 2 in the past 2 weeks and put my deposit on for my Ioniq in preference to the leaf 40 I'd be interested to hear your thoughts?

Would you have chosen the Ioniq if both cars were the same price?

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

Would you have chosen the Ioniq if both cars were the same price?

There was a less than 2k difference between the lower spec l40 and my ioniq before discount. I would have gotten a better deal (PCP) than the car finance I have confirmed for the Ioniq

If they were the same price, i still would have gone for the Ioniq. I said I would never buy a nissan again after the dealer network the last time. But (apart from about 50km more range from the first charge) there isnt much difference in the range, and rapidgate slows down the leaf so much it's not viable as an only car. Propilot is not on par with the Ioniq LKA.


but ... this is Mad Lad's thread so I don't want to divert from his post, I'd like to know what his opinion of the two were.

samih

samih wrote: »

The new LEAF has these too so that explains the excessive wheelspin in wet.

Those Dunlops lasted rather well under my old car. The last remaining one of the four was just at the wear indicator at 72k when I traded in the car. Its counterpart was lost earlier due to a puncture and the the other two lasted approx. 60k before replaced with some GoodYears that were much nicer as far as noise and wet grip was concerned. Probably less impressive with their wear rate.

Ah yes that explains it but it's still far worse with the extra power , if it were I then I'd get proper wet tyres and sell the EC300s they're rubbish in the wet and unsuitable for our climate.

Yes they last a long time but for safety they should not be allowed on Irish Leafs, that is my opinion of course.

unkel

They are roughly the same price though, the launch edition L40 and Ioniq? You won't see much change from €30k for either on the road including metallic paint.

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

They are roughly the same price though, the launch edition L40 and Ioniq? You won't see much change from €30k for either on the road including metallic paint.

Buying new, yeah.

ELM didn't buy new though.

Soarer

ELM327 wrote: »

I said I would never buy a nissan again after the dealer network the last time.

You were always going to buy the Ioniq in that case.

ELM327 wrote: »

But (apart from about 50km more range from the first charge) there isnt much difference in the range

50km isn't much difference in range? Come on.

ELM327 wrote: »

and rapidgate slows down the leaf so much it's not viable as an only car.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. It's perfectly suitable for most one car families.

ELM327 wrote: »

Propilot is not on par with the Ioniq LKA.

Mad_Lad would disagree. I've no experience of either.

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

Buying new, yeah.

ELM didn't buy new though.

I'm buying a 172 with less than 10k km.
And due to price appreciation it's pretty much similar priced to the new one (not that they can be ordered now until 2019 MY)

Soarer wrote: »

You were always going to buy the Ioniq in that case.



50km isn't much difference in range? Come on.



That's a bit of an exaggeration. It's perfectly suitable for most one car families.



Mad_Lad would disagree. I've no experience of either.

I wasnt "Always going to buy the ioniq". I test drove both, I even had the order page open for the leaf 2.0 launch edition. You'll find a post from me about it here. But it wasn't a good enough leap to justify buying it over the Ioniq.

50km is not much difference for me, between the Ioniq's 200-220km and the L40's 240-280km. All my trips are above 300km or below 200km. Workdays will generally have a 120km round trip and some tipping about in the evening.
Any trips to family in wexford or carlow etc is over 300km round trip.
And for above 300km the Ioniq will be faster anyway due to faster charging and no rapidgate.

It's not suitable for anyone who will ever take a long trip, the L40. And renting an ICE car is not a viable option. It's not 1980 anymore, cars should do everything thrown at them.

All I can go by is personal experience. The propilot turned itself off a number of times in the rain on the motorway, rendering it useless in Ireland. The epedal was good, equivalent to about level 3.5 in the Ioniq 0-3 scale of regen. But not worth buying the car for.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

You've driven an Ioniq for a while aswell?
What is your favourite of the two?

As someone who has driven the 2 in the past 2 weeks and put my deposit on for my Ioniq in preference to the leaf 40 I'd be interested to hear your thoughts?

That's a difficult question, they're both good cars, the Leaf has a good bit more power which I like once you can find proper tyres that work in the wet as they should then it should be better in the wet but the old leaf still spun the wheels with A rated wet tyres but it was a lot better than with the EC300s.

The Propilot is really good and i'd like to be able to test the Ioniq LKA again.

The Boot in the Leaf is better, leaf feels more spacious than the Ioniq.

Ride and handling are pretty much as good if you like comfort.

But the big difference here is DC charge power, the Ioniq wins hands down, while the Leaf may have the edge over range particularly at slower speeds the recharge times on the Ioniq are a lot faster, even on the first DC charge you could be looking at throttling in the Leaf not so in the Ioniq.

Winter charging a cold battery will also be slow in the Leaf , the Ioniq has a heated battery but I do not know the circumstances at which it operates so if the battery in the Ioniq is not warm it will also charge slow as it does in the i3 when it has not been preheated.

It would be a tough decision, the lack of thermal management was a disgraceful decision by Nissan, but I really liked the extra power especially on the Motorway but if you're regularly doing long motorway stints then the Ioniq would be the better car if doing a few fast charges a day.

Knowing there's better batteries on the way at the end of next year I would probably hold off altogether.

It depends really on your driving requirements, leaf has 250 odd Kms potential from the first charge and possibly more at slower driving and then you charge for 40 mins to get another maybe 170-180 kms for a total of 390-400 Kms, this is with a starting 100% charge and allowing 220 Kms driving under 120 Kph and 80% dc charge for around 170-180 kms again, driving under 120 Kms.

I would estimate a potential 180 Kms driving at 120 Kph to empty but that's a guess I have not done any considerable motorway driving at 120 Kph and the faster you drive the warmer it gets but you could still get Dublin to Galway on one charge at 120 Kph and worst cast , you stop to go to the toilet and have a coffee and plug in and 10-20 mins later you got plenty of range.

Get to your destination and then find AC point and this will allow the car to charge without further roasting the battery.

So it's a tough call between the Leaf 40 and Ioniq, I know I would be very p1ssed if I ran into throttling at 14-22 kw so the Sumer if we get one should tell the whole story.

I'm going to break the rest of this post into 2 parts as I want to compare the Leaf to my 750 Km drive to limerick/Kerry.

If I think of my Limerick/Kerry trip in the I3, we did about 750 total Kms, let me break that down a bit and I know this is a long post but hear me out...lol

Day 1 House to Limerick DC 175 Kms, charged from around 7-95% in about 40 mins battery temp about 33 Degrees after the charge and this was after a 120 Km/hr stint from Ballacolla to Limerick . 33 degrees was the highest temp I saw on the entire trip.

So day 1 about 180 Kms

Day 2

Left Limerick with about 85% charge, then headed to Newcastle west , charged from 64-85% in about 15 mins. Then onto Killarney, around the ring with a detour on the cost road via Portmagee, 78 Kms , on the way we stopped in Cahersaveen for a coffee and charged at AC point from 33-about 55 % in 40 mins. (11 Kw ).

So from Portmagee - Sneem - Killarney = 245 Kms to the Nissan garage or about 250 Kms back to the centre.

That trip might be a struggle in Leaf / Ioniq due to the lack of DC points, the Leaf has Nissan ChadeMo which I could not use for the i3 so it could charge for up to what, 40 mins to 1hr without too . much throttling after 250 Kms ? granted , it won't be driving anywhere near 120 Km/h on that route.

Day 2 250 Kms

Day 3

Left Killarney headed for home with about 10% charge, the AC point in killarney was dead, so used the rex all the way to Cashel for about 141 Kms and 120 Kph on the Motorway, Got there with 6% charged to about 85% battery temp about 30 degrees.

Cashel to home about 102 Kms so total Day 3 was 242 Kms.

Day 3, 242 Kms

So the most on the 3 days was 250 Kms that's going to be easy in a 40 Kwh leaf but that trip would require some time at AC point possible and the 6.6 Kw charger should help.

On faster motorway routes say Cork to Dublin and back or Dublin to Galway and back in the 1 day you might run into trouble with charging but that's a bit unlikely for me.

So Leaf V Ioniq ? a tough call, I'd probably opt for the leaf because the extra power is really nice to have all the same and I liked the pro pilot and on the slower roads the Leaf has potential for 50-60 Kms more range over the Ioniq + Kerry has no CCS and CCS in General is very poor limiting the Ioniq and even if the Leaf gets capped at 22 Kw it's still faster than 6.6 Kw or 7 which the Ioniq would have to make do with, the whole reason for choosing the Rex was the lack of CCS points and I suppose also the lack of chargers in general, queues etc.

But hand on heart I think I'd opt for the Leaf, not saying the Ioniq is bad it's not at all it's just my own personal opinion, if you do lots of Dublin to Galway , cork to Dublin (return) trips then you might be better off going with the Ioniq but for me the Leaf would be fine.

Trip was about 672 kms not 750 now that I added it up, still a fair amount of driving really over a weekend, leaving Friday afternoon back Sunday afternoon.

Y2K86

ELM327 wrote: »

There was a less than 2k difference between the lower spec l40 and my ioniq before discount. I would have gotten a better deal (PCP) than the car finance I have confirmed for the Ioniq

If they were the same price, i still would have gone for the Ioniq. I said I would never buy a nissan again after the dealer network the last time. But (apart from about 50km more range from the first charge) there isnt much difference in the range, and rapidgate slows down the leaf so much it's not viable as an only car. Propilot is not on par with the Ioniq LKA.


but ... this is Mad Lad's thread so I don't want to divert from his post, I'd like to know what his opinion of the two were.

Not to derail

But a 172 i3 rex for 30k is a far better car than the Leaf 40 or Ioniq

Little smaller but better in every other way

Soarer

Y2K86 wrote: »

Not to derail

But a 172 i3 rex for 30k is a far better car than the Leaf 40 or Ioniq

Little smaller but better in every other way

Except it's not.

ELM327

Y2K86 wrote: »

Not to derail

But a 172 i3 rex for 30k is a far better car than the Leaf 40 or Ioniq

Little smaller but better in every other way

Not if you have 2 kids and are anticipating a third.
Or if you don't like the look of the i3, and admire the Ioniq (and the L40 for that matter).
And finally, if you don't want a petrol car with an EV motor, but a full electric car.

Let's leave the i3 out of it please, Mad Lad's write up is very good and realistically anyone considering the L40 or Ioniq, the i3 is not a similar product at all.

Y2K86

Soarer wrote: »

Except it's not.

How not?

Quicker, lighter, better handling, much better interior, similar range, liquid cooling, petrol engine for back up, carbon fibre

List is endless

Its a top class EV

Y2K86

ELM327 wrote: »

Not if you have 2 kids and are anticipating a third.
Or if you don't like the look of the i3, and admire the Ioniq (and the L40 for that matter).
And finally, if you don't want a petrol car with an EV motor, but a full electric car.

Let's leave the i3 out of it please, Mad Lad's write up is very good and realistically anyone considering the L40 or Ioniq, the i3 is not a similar product at all.

Mad_Lads write up is nothing more than a thinly veiled my i3 rex vs Leaf 40

Going on about rwd

Leaf 40 is an economy car, should be no mention of bloody lsds and advanced torque systems

Its up against yokes like Pulsars etc

172 i3 is the same price as Ioniq and Leaf 40, its a similar product

2 adults and 2 kids car

Leaf 40 or Ioniq are not much bigger inside

2 adults and 3 teenagers won't be comfortable in one

ELM327

Y2K86 wrote: »

Mad_Lads write up is nothing more than a thinly veiled my i3 rex vs Leaf 40

Going on about rwd

Leaf 40 is an economy car, should be no mention of bloody lsds and advanced torque systems

Its up against yokes like Pulsars etc

172 i3 is the same price as Ioniq and Leaf 40, its a similar product

2 adults and 2 kids car

Leaf 40 or Ioniq are not much bigger inside

2 adults and 3 teenagers won't be comfortable in one

The i3 is a moon buggy. No boot and space (just about) for 2 in the back
The leaf is much bigger inside and out, and the Ioniq is similar to the leaf with less headroom in the back.
You're comparing a DB7 with a Cygnet.

And I beg you to leave this thread for Mad Lad's writeup as they are real world experiences and comparisons.
I;m hardly a mad lad apologist, I rip the mick something awful about the i3 being a hybrid etc

Soarer

Y2K86 wrote: »

How not?

It's not a family EV. It's compromised from the beginning with the doors.

Y2K86 wrote: »

Quicker

At certain speeds.

Y2K86 wrote: »

lighter

Correct. But why is that better?

Y2K86 wrote: »

better handling

Correct, but subjective. Some people don't like responsive feedback or heavy steering. They want comfort and easy driving.

Y2K86 wrote: »

much better interior

Again subjective. There are a lot more things in the i3 than the Leaf that piss me off.

Y2K86 wrote: »

similar range

To what? Certainly not the L40.

Y2K86 wrote: »

liquid cooling

That's one up on the Leaf. But the Ioniq's thermal management isn't to be sniffed at.

Y2K86 wrote: »

petrol engine for back up

That's handy alright. But it could be argued that it's a hybrid rather than a pure EV.

Y2K86 wrote: »

carbon fibre

Meh.

Y2K86 wrote: »

List is endless

It certainly isn't.

Y2K86 wrote: »

Its a top class EV

It's an excellent EV...for a certain demographic. If you have kids, it's a pain in the hole.

Also, where can you get a 172 REx for €30k?

Y2K86

Soarer wrote: »

Also, where can you get a 172 REx for €30k?

UK

Loads of them

Soarer

Y2K86 wrote: »

UK

Loads of them

Really?

Show me one.

Y2K86

Soarer wrote: »

Really?

Show me one.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803194719072?advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2017&postcode=m52ty&model=I3&page=1&make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid%20–%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

Vrt about 2k

I don't want this to turn into a i3 V everything else, i3 is a completely different league.

What would swing me more towards the Leaf is the ChaDeMo , if I had to have a BEV only Ioniq might be able to do more faster motorway cruises which is really only important if this is a regular pattern but until the Network improves CCS vehicles will not be served as well, there is an upgrade being done as we speak but for the here and now ChaDEMo is much better catered for and most Motorways are now served ok with CCS except the M9 which is a disgrace.

Leaf Positives and negatives over the Ioniq in my opinion

ChaDeMo
power, there's no one who could complain now that the leaf lacks power.
Boot is decent
Roomier
Pro Pilot is good It did not disengage in the wet but it's wasn't lashing down , (I will test drive the Ioniq again to test the Active LKA)
Suspension has been improved and geared more for comfort, it handles broken roads very comfortably.

leaf Negatives,

To be honest apart from the lack of thermal management there aren't many and this may effect you and it may not as I said, if you do long frequent long distance return trips at 120+ Kph then the Ioniq is probably the better choice here.

leaf also does not heat the battery but from setting out with 100% charge and driving until you need to fast charge it may already be at a sufficient temp to allow it to fast charge at full or close to full rate.

ELM327

MOD edit, Error output isnt really of any use here

bp_me

ELM327 wrote: »

HTTP ERROR 500

Problem accessing /classified/advert/201803194719072. Reason:
Server ErrorCaused by:

Autotrader doesnt like people sharing long links.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803194719072 is the link to the car.

ELM327

bp_me wrote: »

Autotrader doesnt like people sharing long links.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803194719072 is the link to the car.

€29k before VRT
And it's white. Bluergh.

Soarer

Y2K86 wrote: »

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803194719072

Vrt about 2k

If you do the numbers, you'll see that doesn't come in at €30k.

Soarer

ELM327 wrote: »

€29k before VRT
And it's white. Bluergh.

€29k on XE.com
Add in the bank's chunk for exchange rate.
Plus travel.
Plus VAT.

Soarer

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't want this to turn into a i3 V everything else, i3 is a completely different league.

What would swing me more towards the Leaf is the ChaDeMo , if I had to have a BEV only Ioniq might be able to do more faster motorway cruises which is really only important if this is a regular pattern but until the Network improves CCS vehicles will not be served as well, there is an upgrade being done as we speak but for the here and now ChaDEMo is much better catered for and most Motorways are now served ok with CCS except the M9 which is a disgrace.

Leaf Positives and negatives over the Ioniq in my opinion

ChaDeMo
power, there's no one who could complain now that the leaf lacks power.
Boot is decent
Roomier
Pro Pilot is good It did not disengage in the wet but it's wasn't lashing down , (I will test drive the Ioniq again to test the Active LKA)
Suspension has been improved and geared more for comfort, it handles broken roads very comfortably.

leaf Negatives,

To be honest apart from the lack of thermal management there aren't many and this may effect you and it may not as I said, if you do long frequent long distance return trips at 120+ Kph then the Ioniq is probably the better choice here.

leaf also does not heat the battery but from setting out with 100% charge and driving until you need to fast charge it may already be at a sufficient temp to allow it to fast charge at full or close to full rate.

Apologies Mad_Lad. Your stuff is getting lost in the midst of the other drivel.

The bit in red bold is the important bit, and my firm belief on the whole thing.
The L40 is an ideal family car unless you're doing more than 300kms per day on a fairly regular basis.
If that's your workload, get the Ioniq.
Otherwise, to my mind, the L40 is a better car.

Also, what's the story with the Ioniq upholstery? Very 1980s Camry.

Y2K86

Soarer wrote: »

If you do the numbers, you'll see that doesn't come in at €30k.

31k

You can get cheaper

Y2K86

Soarer wrote: »

€29k on XE.com
Add in the bank's chunk for exchange rate.
Plus travel.
Plus VAT.

Plus few hundred of haggling

No vat, drive it till 6k km or whatever it is

Travel is dirt cheap

Its a 30k car

End off

Stop acting smart

Lads can we stop this and keep it OT please ?

Soarer

Soarer wrote: »

Apologies Mad_Lad. Your stuff is getting lost in the midst of the other drivel.

The bit in red bold is the important bit, and my firm belief on the whole thing.
The L40 is an ideal family car unless you're doing more than 300kms per day on a fairly regular basis.
If that's your workload, get the Ioniq.
Otherwise, to my mind, the L40 is a better car.

Also, what's the story with the Ioniq upholstery? Very 1980s Camry.

Yes, it is ideal really. Just change those tyres asap lol.

Hmm, I'm not too familiar with the Ioniq upholstery , it was one thing that turned me off not being able to get leather, I know it can be fitter after but come one lol.

I don't believe there are many that will be doing that frequent motorway long distance driving in one day in Ireland so for the majority the Leaf will probably be absolutely fine.

In my opinion the lack of CCS is the ioniq's greatest restriction and other CCS only cars, for now that is. Yes chargers are slowly being upgraded but that's likely to be the only upgrade we'll see in 2018, places like Kerry with no non Nissan chargers like Killarney are unlikely to see any chargers this year and probably not next year either.

So , Ioniq faster charging, no slow down but far fewer chargers, ChaDeMo Leaf, 2nd DC charge probably slower but a lot more chargers to begin with and this will be about 350 kms driven before slow charging and can charge on 6.6 or granny cable at destination to help keep temps down to be ready for the next day.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, it is ideal really. Just change those tyres asap lol.

Hmm, I'm not too familiar with the Ioniq upholstery , it was one thing that turned me off not being able to get leather, I know it can be fitter after but come one lol.

I don't believe there are many that will be doing that frequent motorway long distance driving in one day in Ireland so for the majority the Leaf will probably be absolutely fine.

In my opinion the lack of CCS is the ioniq's greatest restriction and other CCS only cars, for now that is. Yes chargers are slowly being upgraded but that's likely to be the only upgrade we'll see in 2018, places like Kerry with no non Nissan chargers like Killarney are unlikely to see any chargers this year and probably not next year either.

So , Ioniq faster charging, no slow down but far fewer chargers, ChaDeMo Leaf, 2nd DC charge probably slower but a lot more chargers to begin with and this will be about 350 kms driven before slow charging and can charge on 6.6 or granny cable at destination to help keep temps down to be ready for the next day.

The ioniq would also do 350 km with only one fast charger stop.
Hence what I was saying about range not being too different between them

JackieChan

ELM327 wrote: »

The ioniq would also do 350 km with only one fast charger stop.
Hence what I was saying about range not being too different between them

I was thinking the same as I read it, 350km should be doable with one charge.

I've driven the Ioniq and Leaf(twice).
I was a little surprised that the acceleration in the Ioniq was as slow as it was(and yes I was in Sport mode). Plenty fast over my aging machine but just not as quick as I thought it would feel from the YT videos. Also the Mrs didn't like the interior at all and thought it was quite cheap looking. Although she did like the styling of the car on the exterior.

The Leaf was very nippy in comparison, looked better inside and very comfy seats(at least on SVE model). Both the Mrs and my daughter were sold on the Leaf and the question was only the spec. Although they did prefer the Ioniq's exterior styling.
For my driving needs 90% of drives will be less than 20km and few regular journeys that we do would need even one fast charge.

Soarer

I don’t think they’ll both do 350km with one fast charge, unless ye’re talking about the fabled motorway driving at a real 120km/h.

In non motorway driving, the Leaf will have a longer range.

irishgrover

I don't think there is any right answer to any of this.... There are so many differences between the current crop of ev's that you can only apply very limited standard criteria to judge the cars....

Leaf gen 1 and gen 1.5 ---- limiting range, astethically questionable.
BUT.... perfect for many who don't need range and an important trailblazer for introducing EVs to the wider public

Leaf 40kWh -- inefficient at high speed, problems for longer range, charging issues.... No battery cooling
BUT great upgrade in range, better design, great space and battery issue should only impact a limited number of people a limited number of times

I3 REX

---

downright ugly to some....quirky to others. Space wise very limiting and implacticable to many, very expensive, not really a true and pure EV...
BUT --- loads of fun, can provide feeling of premium/superior ownership....petrol generator all but eliminates range fears..

IONIQ

---

extremely efficient especially at speed, bat cooling, superior fast charging, high spec on all models...
BUT

---

you can't get one, if you can it's white, if you like leather you're out of luck... CCS availability is worse, the charging port is in the wrong place, and there is no app....


So you need to do your homework and figure out what is most important to you as an individual...

Personally for me...
I won't drive a rex.... For me personally I wanted a full EV, and any rex for me personally does not cut it. Nor does only having four seats. I utterly get and understand why is perfect for others but not for me....

I would not buy a 1.0 or 1.5 leaf as the range is not enough

I waited until the leaf came out but did not buy it because of the problem with charging.
So I went for the ioniq, and got one in England cause I like leather..
My neighbor but a new leaf the same day. We both chose the best ev

The ioniq is without doubt the best car....for me
The i3 is without doubt the best car..... For madlad
The leaf is without doubt the best car....for my neighbor...

All this out noise is just I'll informed pissing against the wind, if you are not resulting your answers against specific individuals and specific use cases

Which, in fairness, mad lad was trying to do with regards to his very limited comparison criteria..

BorneTobyWilde

How can a new car not have traction control.