Tired of being hoodwinked

beefburrito

Im not very politically motivated , but I hear a lot of bad press about Iran .
And how strict they are about western ways.

Im on instagram and have a few friends in Iran, they seem to be oblivious to the bull**** we're being told.

There's tatoo parlour's, places to socialise late night resturaunts, top end fashion outlets, men and women getting the slickest hairdo's.

Vibrant city streets, night life without booze and drugs.
Dj's spinning class Eastern house music.

The Shia Islam is very tolerant of a lot more than the hardline Sunni.
Happy people living a life without drink and drugs, smoking is allowed.

Christian's Jew's and Muslim's chilling together.
I don't drink myself so the whole lack of alcohol wouldn't bother me.

You wouldn't get this in Saudi Arabia

Im totally confused

El Tarangu

Well OP, if you are a woman, you can be sent to prison for not wearing a headscarf, and they still have public hangings there, so while there may be some sensationalist reporting on conditions in the county, I am not sure that it is the right-on progressive haven that you seem to think it might be.

beefburrito

El Tarangu wrote: »

Well OP, if you are a woman, you can be sent to prison for not wearing a headscarf, and they still have public hangings there, so while there may be some sensationalist reporting on conditions in the county, I am not sure that it is the right-on progressive haven that you seem to think it might be.

Im not saying its a haven, but more worried about innocent people getting blown to bits and another middle east country ruined by the west.

As for headscarves not all women wear them over there.

StringerBell

Iran is progressing as a nation. Still a long way to go but they are certainly on the right track, whether they will be able/allowed to continue progressing is up in the air right now.

vicwatson

Saudi Arabia/Israel/USA

All want Iran gone, all working together

Wanderer78

Henry Rollins quote, 'knowledge without miles, is bull****', go to these countries and spend time there, to truly understand the people and it's culture, as us humans have a tendency to add bull**** to stories

Hurrache

Like everything political, it all depends on the perspective of the media you view these things on. There's plenty of stories and photo journals out there which show the reality of every day life in Iran, including recent news stories about the Iranian deal.

beefburrito

I've one guy I follow and he drives around Tehran at night house music pumping from the speakers, with a Cam on his dash, you can visibly see the bustling street's, women in T-shirts maybe head scarves.

Good looking guys and women in T-shirts, tatoo sleeves happy faces etc

It doesn't look like a hell hole to me.

Amirani

There's an element of 1984 to it. There always has to be an enemy or bogeyman, particularly in the US.

jimmycrackcorm

Amirani wrote:

There's an element of 1984 to it. There always has to be an enemy or bogeyman, particularly in the US.

I don't think the U.S. can be blamed for Iran banning Telegram

FatherTed

OP: To be honest, I'm not too well up on internal Iranian affairs but I did see this article recently. True or not?

Several Iranian women have caught people's attention by revealing the lengths they go to to attend a football match.

Donning beards and wigs, they disguised themselves as men so they could watch their team, Persepolis, play rivals Sepidrood at the Azadi stadium in Tehran last Friday.

Images of the women at the stadium have been widely shared on both Persian and English social media.

Although there's no official ban on women going to sporting events in Iran, it is rare for them to attend as they are often refused entry. Prior to the Islamic revolution of 1979, women were allowed to attend sporting events.

Women have been punished for attending games in the past. In 2014, British-Iranian activist Ghoncheh Ghavami was detained after attempting to watch a men's volleyball match in Iran. And in March 2018 35 women were detained for trying to attend a football match.

In February, women were allowed to watch a major basketball game in Tehran - but they had to sit in an area separate to men.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43964178

James Brown

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't think the U.S. can be blamed for Iran banning Telegram

I would suggest the U.S. are very responsible for the current Iranian regime. A hand in the creation of the Korean situation too, great lads.

johnnyskeleton

beefburrito wrote: »

Im not very politically motivated , but I hear a lot of bad press about Iran .
And how strict they are about western ways.

Im on instagram and have a few friends in Iran, they seem to be oblivious to the bull**** we're being told.

There's tatoo parlour's, places to socialise late night resturaunts, top end fashion outlets, men and women getting the slickest hairdo's.

I'm trying to understand the point you are trying to make OP, but you seem to be conflating a few different issues:

1. Moral and religious freedoms;
2. Civil and Political freedoms;
3. External threats.

Iran was a pro western monarchy until the revloution in 1979. After that, it became what was, at the time, seen as the strictest Islamic regime in the world. It imposed fairly strict Sharia law upon its people, but had allowances for the relatively small ethnic minorities such as Christians and Jews, many of whom had supported the revolution. Since then, it has been controlled by unelected religious leaders who have greater constitutional powers than the president of Iran.

Christians and Jews today are allowed to practise their religion but they can be subjected to religous intolerance at times. They can drink alcohol and do not have to wear conservative clothing etc. They can get tatoos or go clubbing in Tehran if they like. But they they want to try to convert their Muslim neighbours or tell them how wonderful their religion is, they can be stoned to death. Muslims, that is those who the law deems to be Muslim, cannot legally drink or take drugs etc and must dress modestly.

UK Home Office Report wrote:

5.3.5 Christian Today reported in October 2016 that:
‘Three Iranian men who converted to Christianity from Islam are appealing
against criminal convictions for drinking alcohol. Yasser Mossayebzadeh,
Saheb Fadaie and Mohammad Reza Omidi were sentenced to 80 lashes for
taking communion wine. Non-Muslims are allowed to drink alcohol in Iran.
But because conversion to Christianity from Islam is forbidden and regarded
as apostasy, the three men are still legally regarded as Muslims. The third
man, Omidi, already has a previous conviction for drinking alcohol. If he is
convicted a third time, he is likely to face the death sentence. World Watch
Monitor reports that the three men have also been charged with acting
against national security.’54

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/686067/iran-christians-cpin.pdf

There are, however, areas where illegal activity takes place:

The Guardian wrote:

While a strictly enforced law compels other shopkeepers to close by midnight, Super Jordan stays open through the wee hours, monopolizing late-night refreshment sales. It is rumored that the owner has exquisite connections to the municipal government; in any case, shoppers in various stages of inebriation complete their purchases without police intervention.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/iran-blog/2014/apr/17/tehran-the-secret-party-town

I understand that things have become a bit better since 2014.

So if your friends are going to pubs in Iran they are probably either:
1. Non-Muslim i.e. recognised Christian/Jewish
2. Breaking the law
3. Politically well connected upper class types.

They may well say that it is normal to you, but it would be a bit like you saying that you go out every night snorting cocaine and it's perfectly normal. That might be normal for you, but it isn't representative or legal.

Then we have the fact that there is a lack of civil and political freedoms.

beefburrito wrote: »

I've one guy I follow and he drives around Tehran at night house music pumping from the speakers, with a Cam on his dash, you can visibly see the bustling street's, women in T-shirts maybe head scarves.

I'm sure he does. Why don't you ask him to go around blasting pro democracy or blasphemous slogans and see how far he gets?

Vibrant city streets, night life without booze and drugs.
Dj's spinning class Eastern house music.

In the Armeian quarter of Tehran?

The Shia Islam is very tolerant of a lot more than the hardline Sunni.

Yes. But not as tolerant as Western Secular States. Ask an Ahmadi if they would like to live in Iran.

Happy people living a life without drink and drugs, smoking is allowed.

Christian's Jew's and Muslim's chilling together.
I don't drink myself so the whole lack of alcohol wouldn't bother me.

I think you have a somewhat rosy picture of it. Particularly if you are trying to make the arugment that you seem to be i.e. that the Media are giving an unfair view of Iran. Well, do you think it is possible that you and your Iranian friends are trying to point only to the good bits of it in a sort of propaganda way?

You wouldn't get this in Saudi Arabia

Im totally confused

This brings me to the third point, which is the external threat aspect of Iran. The reason why the USA and Israel hate Iran is nothing to do with how the Iranian government treats its own citizens and is all to do with the fact that, until recently, Iran has been developing nuclear weapons and has constantly threatened to destroy the State of Israel. If the Western Media portrays Iran badly, it is less to do with their internal rights situation and lack of democracy, but instead it is to do with the fact that they are one of the countries that has been threatening to start WWIII.

As for Saudi Arabia, they are another terrible country in terms of human rights and democracy. But they are not a direct threat* to the USA, Israel or Europe and are a significant trade partner vis a vis oil and banking etc.

So perhaps you feel that you are being hoodwinked because if you were to be transported to Tehran and Riyadh, you would have a much better time in Tehran, while at the same time the big picture message from the Western Media is Iran = bad, Saudi Arabia = good. But these are two different things entirely.

It doesn't look like a hell hole to me.

At this point in a debate someone might say "Well if it is so wonderful, why don't you go and live there?" but obviously you can't as they don't allow non Muslim inward migration.


*I'm aware that Saudi Arabia have sponsored extreme Wahabism and there are indirect links between the HoS and Al Qaeda etc.

Elmer Blooker

Iran was a pro western monarchy until the revloution in 1979. After that, it became what was, at the time, seen as the strictest Islamic regime in the world.

So what? This "pro western" monarchy was deeply unpopular among Iranians and only the brutal secret police (SAVAK) kept the puppet Shah in power.

Yes. But not as tolerant as Western Secular States. Ask an Ahmadi if they would like to live in Iran.

Syria may not have much political freedom but it is the most secular state in the middle east, why is the Saudi/NATO alliance backing Sunni extremists to overthrow this state?

backspin.

I don't like the way America (the worlds caring policeman :rolleyes:) and Israel are gearing up to destroy the place.

I think america should stay the hell out of the middle east they have caused nothing but trouble over the last 30 years. We wouldn't have this migrant crisis if america had of stayed at home.

StringerBell

Another case of US intervention gone wrong alright the Shah.

humberklog

Doesn't Iran have one of the highest rates of opiate abuse in the world?

Last year the government were going to decriminalise it so they could move in to distribute and regulate it. Not sure if they went ahead with it.

Crystal Meth is big there too according to previous reports I've read and heard.

Alcohol is widely available. Dom Joly had a good article on his travels in Iran called Mullah's don't Snowboard.

beefburrito

I don't think anybodys stupid or idotic enough to go around blaring political statements anywhere else a civilized country or uncivilized country.

You'd look and sound a right bell end.

During the troubles people all over the world including the middle east thought Ireland was being bombed left right and centre.

People in some countries wouldn't set foot in Ireland for fear of getting clipped, or ending up as flying mince meat...

Even during the 90's a lot of young men from the country wouldn't go to Dublin for a weekend for fear of walking off a train into HIV infected syringe...or being held up with one....

What I'm saying is there's a lot of scare mongering going on.

And if Iran was attacked it would be a shame on civilisation.

Yes maybe they support rebels, so do so called civilized countries support rebels.

They don't hate Jew's or the people of the book.

It's Zionism they don't like,they don't like the Palestinians getting blown to bits.

Just like the people in the south who feared for their kin in the north of Ireland getting lynched by a loyalist mob...

I had a car pull up beside me in Northern Ireland on my way home from a party in a village, during the 90's.
2 guy's with Ulster Scot's accents pulled up asked me did I want a lift, I said no I'm grand.

A few seconds later another car flew around the bend, pulled up...said get into the Fckn car now..
I knew him, he was a door man from the pub.

I ran into the car, and we tore off.
He told me they were well know people from over yonder who would have had gave me a right hiding...

I can see how fear can work.

I can see why people can change their views and make wrong decisions...

johnnyskeleton

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

So what? This "pro western" monarchy was deeply unpopular among Iranians and only the brutal secret police (SAVAK) kept the puppet Shah in power.

Well the OP wanted to know why Iran has gotten such bad press. That's one of the reasons why.

Syria may not have much political freedom but it is the most secular state in the middle east, why is the Saudi/NATO alliance backing Sunni extremists to overthrow this state?

Well NATO's plan was to back secular and non extremist opposition forces, but that plan was poorly executed. Saudi backing the Sunni extrmeists is not terribly surprising.

Brian?

OP, I think you’re in danger of generalising the whole of Iran based on the population of Tehran. People in the capital have always enjoyed slightly more freedom in how they live. Rural Iran would be very different.

There seems to be some sort of detant between progressive urban dwellers and the religious leaders for the last few years. The progressives don’t do much protesting and the theocrats let them be.

As previously stated, there is a massive opiate crisis in Iran. It’s next door neighbor, Afghanistan, is flooding Iran with cheap heroin.

Mucco

OP, you should read 'All the Shah's men' to help understand the Iranian attitude to the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_the_Shah%27s_Men

James Brown

beefburrito wrote: »

I don't think anybodys stupid or idotic enough to go around blaring political statements anywhere else a civilized country or uncivilized country.

You'd look and sound a right bell end.

During the troubles people all over the world including the middle east thought Ireland was being bombed left right and centre.

People in some countries wouldn't set foot in Ireland for fear of getting clipped, or ending up as flying mince meat...

Even during the 90's a lot of young men from the country wouldn't go to Dublin for a weekend for fear of walking off a train into HIV infected syringe...or being held up with one....

What I'm saying is there's a lot of scare mongering going on.

And if Iran was attacked it would be a shame on civilisation.

Yes maybe they support rebels, so do so called civilized countries support rebels.

They don't hate Jew's or the people of the book.

It's Zionism they don't like,they don't like the Palestinians getting blown to bits.

Just like the people in the south who feared for their kin in the north of Ireland getting lynched by a loyalist mob...

I had a car pull up beside me in Northern Ireland on my way home from a party in a village, during the 90's.
2 guy's with Ulster Scot's accents pulled up asked me did I want a lift, I said no I'm grand.

A few seconds later another car flew around the bend, pulled up...said get into the Fckn car now..
I knew him, he was a door man from the pub.

I ran into the car, and we tore off.
He told me they were well know people from over yonder who would have had gave me a right hiding...

I can see how fear can work.

I can see why people can change their views and make wrong decisions...

I get your point on Ireland. I remember talking to a Londoner, of adult age, who was under the impression that Belfast and Dublin were chucking bombs over at each other. I couldn't believe it.

There needs be no defence of Iran. The US back countries and people who do the same and worse if there's a shillin' in it, to paraphrase P. Flynn, (paraphrasing Haughey).
The real concern is the ego and greed of both the US and Israel causing that whole region to splinter. It's going to be a nuclear free for all if the US show to not follow through on/have real interest in, any deals.
I'd be just as much calling for Israel to de-nuclearise. They are ever expanding and aggressive. They are possibly the biggest destabilising entity in that region.

beefburrito

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I get your point on Ireland. I remember talking to a Londoner, of adult age, who was under the impression that Belfast and Dublin were chucking bombs over at each other. I couldn't believe it.

There needs be no defence of Iran. The US back countries and people who do the same and worse if there's a shillin' in it, to paraphrase P. Flynn, (paraphrasing Haughey).
The real concern is the ego and greed of both the US and Israel causing that whole region to splinter. It's going to be a nuclear free for all if the US show to not follow through on/have real interest in, any deals.
I'd be just as much calling for Israel to de-nuclearise. They are ever expanding and aggressive. They are possibly the biggest destabilising entity in that region.

I suppose I'm jumping to conclusions, I read a lot into the whole thing.

Since I was a kid I had a fascination with Persia Iraq and ironically Afghanistan.

I remember watching "It's a wonderful life" and George Bailey got a gift of a suitcase and mentioned he'd travel to Iraq...

Straight away I looked it up on an encyclopedia after the movie. I was intrigued by their culture and history, then Persia then Afghanistan

Those middle Eastern countries seemed fine before oil became a big commodity....

My biggest fear is a war breaking out and Iran ending up like Iraq or Afghanistan Shias and Sunnis get on well in general there.

From looking at people I follow from Iran on instagram, the rural areas are quite rural.

Reminds me of Ireland in the 50's 40's old couple's with donkeys carrying sticks, kids doing what kids loved most, fishing in streams,swimming in lakes etc..

Beautiful dusty roads, scenery that's amazing.

Sometimes if it's not broke don't fix it.

I live in the Burren if you met some of the rural folk back this way you'd find people living in real old ways.

For example near the new line,you there's people living in what's similar to mud huts, but done quite tastefully.
Old money hippies.

I could go round taking photos of the bockety roads, quirky people, old dwellings and portray it's normal living in the west of Ireland.

Head on to east Clare where all the new age travellers live in the hills, some in busses,some in sheds.

But they're happy out, happier than the middle class living in debt people.

I think Trump will work something out with Iran Bebe might not like it, but he'll have to accept it.

Tea drinker

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Syria may not have much political freedom but it is the most secular state in the middle east, why is the Saudi/NATO alliance backing Sunni extremists to overthrow this state?

Because Israel is exploring the (occupied Syrian) Golan for oil and gas.
Netanyahu has gone against previous talks and said Israel will never return the Golan (against UN accords)
It's full of Israeli settlers now anyway, so where are they going to go?
The destruction of Syria benefits NATO and allies.
1. Turkey gets to grab a little Syrian land.
2. Israel gets to grab a little Syrian land.
3. Israel gets to keep the Syrian land it already holds.
4. NATO ally Saudi gets to bleed Iran and Russia.

I mean the list goes on and on, but it's all about money and power. It's nothing to do with who shares values with NATO or EU people. TBH the EU subjects have been dying because of what the EU regime is supporting in Syria - Islamist rebels. Same guys come home from Syria to EU and kill people, but that's OK, we can be human sandbags for failed EU/NATO policy. No value on EU lives. No repercussions in EU or NATO for the failed policy.