What scores are winning in your Club these days?

backspin.

In my club most weeks any less that 40 points will get you nothing. Quite often you'd need up to 42 or 43 to win. In occasion 45.

I'm getting a little disillusioned with it. They seem to favour forward tees as they believe that is what the older membership want. It's resulting in high scores.

ridonkulous

Similar in my place. Lots of guys giving out about it but I must say it doesn't bother me. Lads saying all sorts about it but the reality is it's the nature of the game. I've always been low single figures and I'd consider myself well able to shoot in the 40s on my day. The lads shooting in the mid 40s are normally newish to the game and their handicap is still bedding in. They'll spend years in the wilderness too, don't worry 😂

Russman

In summer conditions in my place usually if you beat 36pts you’ll be there or thereabouts most of the time - obviously there are the odd exceptions and it’s a bit class dependent, but if you turned in say 38pts you’d be very happy.

It’s a bit different at the moment with forward tees and placing everywhere which really distorts it IMO. 40pts won last Saturday (granted next was 37), and 41 on Sunday.

WHIP IT!

Hard to win with less than 40 in my place (Grange Castle). Although the Wednesday Comp this week was played off the Blues for the first time this year. Very windy, still very little run on the ball, so course playing as long as I've ever seen it play - ie, several par fours just not reachable in two. And 37 won it, which is as low a score as I've seen win there in quite a while.

dan_ep82

Anything from 38 on a bad day to 44 is normal on a good day.

Then there was this cracker

acalmenvoy

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Anything from 38 on a bad day to 44 is normal on a good day.

Then there was this cracker

Looks like he pulled got tired towards the end.

billy3sheets

Plenty scores over 40 up to 2 weeks ago but there was placing and a few holes with temporary short teeboxes. Wasn't much wind a few weekends either. I won a prize with 39 one week but got nowt for 40 following week.
Starting to come back to around 38 or 39 now though with placing gone or fairway only.
I'm in St Margaret's.

mike12

34-34would get u a class prize most days, 36 is always there about.

Sultan_of_Ping

I play on a links so a lot depends on the weather. Last week, 44pts took the overall......72 hrs before that, 36 pts won the overall in the midweek comp on a windy, crappy day.

The more interesting thing is test there's a good mix of handicaps winning. It's not just the high handicapper on a good day scooping the winnings. There's been a few of those alright, but also plenty won by mid and low handicappers, so you feel like you're in with a decent chance if you can get a score going.

Ollieboy

It also depends on the size of the field, on average we would have entries of 120+ so 40 would always be the mar, anything below that usually means the weather had a big impact.. On majors we can have 250 entries over2 days of play and 67 won last week. Usually 66 to 68 would be required for a major.

I played a open a few weeks ago and came 2nd with 36 but the field size was only 40 and they told me the majors would only get 80 odd players which to me devalues the prize.

Rikand

In general, 39-41 is the winning score around Athlone, but last week we had an absolute legend shoot 49.

26 handicap and the happiest guy in the whole club. He never stops laughing

backspin.

acalmenvoy wrote: »

Looks like he pulled got tired towards the end.

Definitely got tired.. no way he would have put the handbrake on

FixdePitchmark

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Anything from 38 on a bad day to 44 is normal on a good day.

Then there was this cracker

I'd ban this lad for life.

dan_ep82

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I'd ban this lad for life.

Two of the birdies are temp greens so play a good bit shorter, im sure they helped.

Placing aswell, he's playing off 3 full shots lower now too. Could have just been one of those rounds where everything went his way.

Tom.D.BJJ

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Two of the birdies are temp greens so play a good bit shorter, im sure they helped.

Placing aswell, he's playing off 3 full shots lower now too. Could have just been one of those rounds where everything went his way.

He also could have practiced and taken lessons all winter, so his handicap will tumble to reflect his improved ability.

callaway92

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I'd ban this lad for life.

Very unfair statement

A guy part of my previous work society off 12 shot level par before. I had played with him a few times and it was just a round where everything went his way.

The 4 bogeys at the end of the guy's round that's posted above could just be down to variance/luck running out etc.

Keano

In the summer around my place if you do not break 40 you are not getting a prize.

Irishdaywalker

All depends on the number in the field - obviously the more in the field the chances of 1 member having a great score is higher than most - we had a winner recently with 47 points (placing) off 18 - scoring that day was very high, so it was a combination of nice weather (calm) and placing - runner up had 45 points, followed by a group of 43's. Although it was placing (last non qualifier competition before the summer rules) the Handicap Secretary was going to cut the lads who had the scores. Winning scores typically would be from 38 - 42 points, so playing each weekend, you tee it up thinking you have a chance of winning or at least being competitive. Nothing worse than going out to play just to make up the numbers or just happy to win the 2's club

GreeBo

This thread reminds me why I'm glad we play strokes!

valoren

Even with the high points in competitions it is just a reminder that like strokeplay it all comes down to one or two shots in someones round that determines the winner.

You could post 40 points and feel you might have won but get deflated when finding out that the winner got 41.

Then you think back to the missed 4 footer on the 2nd, the duffed chip from the edge on the 8th, the drop on the 13th after a bad bounce etc all of which if they had gone your way on the day (you holed the 4 footer for an extra point, you took 3 instead of 4 because you didn't duff that chip, you got an extra point because you got a favourable bounce......) then you'd have won.

Russman

I wonder does strokeplay Vs stableford make any real difference though ?
I know there's the pace of play argument, which is fair enough, and plenty of guys are put off before they even tee off when they hear its a strokes competition, but I reckon if you're having a winning score it doesn't matter whether its strokes or stableford. Chances are if you have 41pts you're probably not having any "scratches".

Benildus

V. Par competition in Killarney (Killeen course) yesterday, winner scored 8 Up off an 18 handicap. He shot 3 over gross on the back 9

backspin.

callaway92 wrote: »

Very unfair statement

A guy part of my previous work society off 12 shot level par before. I had played with him a few times and it was just a round where everything went his way.

The 4 bogeys at the end of the guy's round that's posted above could just be down to variance/luck running out etc.

On reflection I'd give that guy the benefit of the doubt. There aren't many golfers who would sabotage an under par round. Most golfers would love to say they shot a 3 under gross.

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

I wonder does strokeplay Vs stableford make any real difference though ?
I know there's the pace of play argument, which is fair enough, and plenty of guys are put off before they even tee off when they hear its a strokes competition, but I reckon if you're having a winning score it doesn't matter whether its strokes or stableford. Chances are if you have 41pts you're probably not having any "scratches".

It probably doesnt make any difference to the winner, you will often have someone having "one of those days".

For me the "problem" with only playing stableford is that CSS ends up being high, so people having 37, 38 points might not get much of a cut if even a cut at all and the guy with the great score also misses out on a cut.

Fast fwd 3 weeks and those same guys come in with 40 points instead of the 38 points they would have had, had they been cut previously.

Spread this out and it means the outlier score isnt an outlier at all, there are a bunch of people around that score.

There shouldn't be a large bunch of people scoring under par every week in amateur golf if handicaps are correct.

Your handicap is a measure of your potential, not your average.
(For now that is... )

mighty magpie

We had out V Par on sunday. Winner was 7 Up off 17. 2nd was 4 up off 4.

Highest score in cat 3 was 1 up. Back tees making scores more realistic now.

theyoungchap

I am off 20, won a competition recently with 38 points. I was absolutely banging the driver, short game was only OK. Went out on Saturday, and hit 22 points.
It sums up my game, brilliant one day, dreadful the next.

kiers47

I couldn't complain about anyone having 1 freak round or run of holes. Calling them a bandit with no context is ridiculous.

Also there are no bandits throwing in level par rounds in an open singles/bog standard early year comp at this time of the year.

Winner of the singles comp at the weekend had 48 points off 18. That's what, 6 over gross if there are no scratches?

2nd place was 41 points off 9. Without scratches, that comes out at 4 over gross. I'd say he's incredulous looking at the results and realising he lost by 7 points. If he'd shot 2-under gross, he'd still have lost.

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

This thread reminds me why I'm glad we play strokes!

What you mean GreeBo - you only pay strokes ?

FixdePitchmark

Deleted User wrote: »

Winner of the singles comp at the weekend had 48 points off 18. That's what, 6 over gross if there are no scratches?

2nd place was 41 points off 9. Without scratches, that comes out at 4 over gross. I'd say he's incredulous looking at the results and realising he lost by 7 points. If he'd shot 2-under gross, he'd still have lost.

Was it a full course - with no local rules ?

prawnsambo

We have had very few competitions in my club so far because of the weather. The highest score was 40 points and the next highest was 35 from four competitions. Very seldom we get scores over 40 points.

FixdePitchmark

callaway92 wrote: »

Very unfair statement

A guy part of my previous work society off 12 shot level par before. I had played with him a few times and it was just a round where everything went his way.

The 4 bogeys at the end of the guy's round that's posted above could just be down to variance/luck running out etc.

OK there can be freak rounds - accepted.

But you mentioned him being in a society - does that have relevance to a GUI golfer conversation ?

If someone has 50 points - the system has had a significant error.

Errors of this nature can happen - but my argument something has contributed to that error happening.

1) He has an incorrect starting handicap.
2) He has gone a significant period without a qualifying competition
3) He is not playing enough qualifying competitions.

Yes accepted all above can happen - but we as GUI golfers we needs to avoid above or make people play more qualifying comps.

It is such an outrageous score there has to a be twisted sense of truth to it - because the lie is too big.

So ok - it may not be the individuals fault (but a systematic error)

Something along the lines of 1,2,3 has happened.

My own view is winter golf should be partially qualifying and part rounds.
It doesn't have to be full reduction - but part.

3 competitions a years is too few for a valid handicap - needs to be at least double this.

If the guy above got 50 points and is honest - he would have no objection to losing 10 shots. (I'm serious here)
He would still have the capability of 40 points.

They need to increase handicap reductions in a non linear way for exceptional scores. Pull all back to a 40 points limit and reduce ability of golfers to get above 40 points. Anything above 40 points you lose full shot - it would make game far more interesting.

Clubs where you need 44 + to win are damaging to the Irish handicap system and Interclub golf.

I'm not a fan of any handicaps above 18 myself. But I know that causes melt downs.

If you are over 18 - it should be another group. Or you take 18 and run with it.

FixdePitchmark

prawnsambo wrote: »

We have had very few competitions in my club so far because of the weather. The highest score was 40 points and the next highest was 35 from four competitions. Very seldom we get scores over 40 points.

We have to accept that this year will be a freaky year with scoring - little or no early season correction has happened.

FixdePitchmark

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Was it a full course - with no local rules ?

Placing everywhere except bunkers, but that's it. No other rules to speak of

FixdePitchmark

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

If the guy above got 50 points and is honest - he would have no objection to losing 10 shots. (I'm serious here)
He would still have the capability of 40 points.

They need to increase handicap reductions in a non linear way for exceptional scores. Pull all back to a 40 points limit and reduce ability of golfers to get above 40 points. Anything above 40 points you lose full shot - it would make game far more interesting.

Clubs where you need 44 + to win are damaging to the Irish handicap system and Interclub golf.

You make some interesting points, the full shot for everything over 40 is a good idea, I think.

billy3sheets

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You make some interesting points, the full shot for everything over 40 is a good idea, I think.

Would the same logic apply to low scores? So anything less than 30 gets a full shot back?

prawnsambo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

We have to accept that this year will be a freaky year with scoring - little or no early season correction has happened.

Yeah. I've barely played in almost six months, so the rust is well built up. Some horrendous stuff at the moment.

But there's always hope.

dan_ep82

Genuine question, why don't we get cut 1 shot for every shot under our HC?
I can understand why we don't go up as your HC is meant to reflect your best golf not your worst.

prawnsambo

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Genuine question, why don't we get cut 1 shot for every shot under our HC?
I can understand why we don't go up as your HC is meant to reflect your best golf not your worst.

Because the idea is to smooth out the hills and troughs. Somebody who gets 39 points would be cut three shots and could conceivably take three years to get back to that handicap.

FixdePitchmark

prawnsambo wrote: »

Because the idea is to smooth out the hills and troughs. Somebody who gets 39 points would be cut three shots and could conceivably take three years to get back to that handicap.

I've suggest 40 + implies a different thing.

Immediate correction required - keeping everyone in a narrower band making the game far more enjoyable and more competitive.

Clubs with 43/44 - need to be fixed.

You would have bandits - but they would only win once and then would be back to a location were full field can win.

prawnsambo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I've suggest 40 + implies a different thing.

Immediate correction required - keeping everyone in a narrower band making the game far more enjoyable and more competitive.

Clubs with 43/44 - need to be fixed.

You would have bandits - but they would only win once and then would be back to a location were full field can win.

You get exceptional scoring cuts though. My club does it all the time. It's usually an extra shot on top of the normal cut. But as I said earlier, scores above 40 are as rare as hen's teeth. High 30s would be the norm for winning comps.

Like if I score 37 or 38 points, I'd feel I was in with a shout.

Russman

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Genuine question, why don't we get cut 1 shot for every shot under our HC?
I can understand why we don't go up as your HC is meant to reflect your best golf not your worst.

I think the “old” system, before my time as a golfer (early 80s maybe ?), was like that, where you got cut a full shot for every shot you broke SS. There was also a rule along the lines of if you played to your handicap at all during the year you couldn’t get a shot back. I wasn’t even a junior at the time but I remember hearing guys talk about it for years after the current system came in and the feeling was that the old one was a bit too severe. Which in fairness it probably was imo.

Goldenjohn

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Anything from 38 on a bad day to 44 is normal on a good day.

Then there was this cracker

Was this a major or just some midweek open?

FixdePitchmark

prawnsambo wrote: »

You get exceptional scoring cuts though. My club does it all the time. It's usually an extra shot on top of the normal cut. But as I said earlier, scores above 40 are as rare as hen's teeth. High 30s would be the norm for winning comps.

Like if I score 37 or 38 points, I'd feel I was in with a shout.

And I'm lucky in my club.

The culture seems right in yours.

But if scores in 40s are tolerated as the norm - it means all the handicaps in that club will tend to drift up - be it human nature followed by CSS

I couldn't play in a club if winning score too high most weeks.

FixdePitchmark

Russman wrote: »

I think the “old” system, before my time as a golfer (early 80s maybe ?), was like that, where you got cut a full shot for every shot you broke SS. There was also a rule along the lines of if you played to your handicap at all during the year you couldn’t get a shot back. I wasn’t even a junior at the time but I remember hearing guys talk about it for years after the current system came in and the feeling was that the old one was a bit too severe. Which in fairness it probably was imo.

I'd love that system.

Also lads winning medals off handicaps above 18 is just totally illogical to me.
Lad in our club won one about 2 years ago - now off 16 and still in mix in competitions - a joke.

If I was being 100 % honest - not a fan of handicaps above 12. Particularly for well able men under 40 - who clearly play golf.

I know my opinions are not golf PC , like you can't speak your mind these days. Probably not a fan of people playing at an equal level at all.
Grand for fun - but when high handicap lads go on as if they have won the Open on a Saturday as a high teen - and they "beat you" - I just dont get it.

The only golf I like is gross golf.

I always considered GUI golf a bit more serious from outside - but couldn't believe the handicaps guys had, who play golf every week and can hit the ball very well and putt well and chip well. I played with a considerable number of players hitting low index holes in GIR and are very competent golfers and I ask them their handicap (17) - I'd laugh. lol. Scoring in the 40s is incredibly easier for these guys versus a lad off say 9. There is no mathematical logic to it for me. A bogey is so much easier than a par. A 3 pointer birdie is so much harder than a par on an index 16 - there is genuinely no logic to it (in my mind).

Just was shocked when I joined a club.

As for the Interclub stuff - totally perplexed by that. Lads not allowed to play to hold handicaps and that. Jaysus.

Anyway - I enjoy golf and that. But just not a fan of handicapped golf, the Inter club being embarrassing is one thing - but the classic scene - OMG - how on earth you can use a GUI handicap at them is genuinely beyond logic to me. And how GUI affiliated clubs are allowed to pedal them. The ACC is a disgrace to the game here (to name one).

I know I'm a 1% er there.

I don't dislike these lads (well I do the mad ones) - have great laugh with (most) of them. But just handicapped golf is not for me.
A lad getting 50 points. I don't get it, never will, and I can't accept it - or find it acceptable. It is a failed system. If you score over 45 , there is grounds for your handicap in round to be void. And an honest golfer wouldn't mind a dq as his handicap was incorrect.

Not for me. But sure the 99% are happy out.

So I'm the outlier.

I do think it would be a better game - if everyone was brought back to a tighter band and a significant action for over 40 points.
In that system - you could bring the lower performing players up too - but slower in my opinion.

Russman

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I've suggest 40 + implies a different thing.

Immediate correction required - keeping everyone in a narrower band making the game far more enjoyable and more competitive.

Clubs with 43/44 - need to be fixed.

You would have bandits - but they would only win once and then would be back to a location were full field can win.

To very slightly play devils advocate, if you’re in a club where 42/43 pts is needed to win, doesn’t that imply that there are plenty of scores of 39/40/41 etc ? And if everyone (or lets say anyone playing half decently) in the club is able to shoot that kind of number, is there any harm being done, internally at least ? Maybe the SSS is wacky and needs to be revised rather than any sanction on the players per se. I know we had our SSS revised maybe 5/6 years ago and it went up 2 shots.

I think unfortunately there are so many grey areas with handicapping, scoring, winter rules, “one of those days”, different courses etc that the current exceptional scoring rule is about as severe as we can go tbh.

FixdePitchmark

Russman wrote: »

To very slightly play devils advocate, if you’re in a club where 42/43 pts is needed to win, doesn’t that imply that there are plenty of scores of 39/40/41 etc ? And if everyone (or lets say anyone playing half decently) in the club is able to shoot that kind of number, is there any harm being done, internally at least ? Maybe the SSS is wacky and needs to be revised rather than any sanction on the players per se. I know we had our SSS revised maybe 5/6 years ago and it went up 2 shots.

I think unfortunately there are so many grey areas with handicapping, scoring, winter rules, “one of those days”, different courses etc that the current exceptional scoring rule is about as severe as we can go tbh.

Well there is external damage being done as the handicaps will drift up.
Be it by CSS or be it human nature.

Human nature being the more powerful force at play.

Say you are in that club and you are playing well and have an accurate handicap - you hit a good round of 34 points.

" How did you do John Joe"
"Good round 34 - left a few out there"
" John Joe - 34 , Ha ha ha - , you were only 10 off the pace"
" I know yes - but 34 very close to my handicap , "
" close me bollix"
" sure you need to be in the 40s"
" But I'd need to be about 2 under"
" 2 under me bollix - you need about 6 shots"
" But I want to be low"
" you ****ing ejit"
" You hear - who we got in de Interclub - ****ing Lahinch"
"No way - free round - free practice round - a few pints after"
" ****ing right - wa hey - get up the yard all paid for by you bollix" -
" You'd want to sort that handicap out John Joe - no free rounds for you - haaa - haa - ---- lol"

" Best of luck "
" One more thing - you going to the classic"
" No - all bandits at them"
" Ah sure, you go off and practice so - you stupid ****, you need over 100 points in a 3 ball and you win a trip to the Spain"
" Maybe next year when i can score in the 40s"
"Ha ha John Joe - you fecking bandit"

Something like that

Russman

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I'd love that system.

Also lads winning medals off handicaps above 18 is just totally illogical to me.
Lad in our club won one about 2 years ago - now off 16 and still in mix in competitions - a joke.

If I was being 100 % honest - not a fan of handicaps above 12. Particularly for well able men under 40 - who clearly play golf.

I know my opinions are not golf PC , like you can't speak your mind these days. Probably not a fan of people playing at an equal level at all.
Grand for fun - but when high handicap lads go on as if they have won the Open on a Saturday as a high teen - and they "beat you" - I just dont get it.

The only golf I like is gross golf.

I always considered GUI golf a bit more serious from outside - but couldn't believe the handicaps guys had, who play golf every week and can hit the ball very well and putt well and chip well. I played with a considerable number of players hitting low index holes in GIR and are very competent golfers and I ask them their handicap (17) - I'd laugh. lol. Scoring in the 40s is incredibly easier for these guys versus a lad off say 9. There is no mathematical logic to it for me. A bogey is so much easier than a par. A 3 pointer birdie is so much harder than a par on an index 16 - there is genuinely no logic to it (in my mind).

Just was shocked when I joined a club.

As for the Interclub stuff - totally perplexed by that. Lads not allowed to play to hold handicaps and that. Jaysus.

Anyway - I enjoy golf and that. But just not a fan of handicapped golf, the Inter club being embarrassing is one thing - but the classic scene - OMG - how on earth you can use a GUI handicap at them is genuinely beyond logic to me. And how GUI affiliated clubs are allowed to pedal them. The ACC is a disgrace to the game here (to name one).

I know I'm a 1% er there.

I don't dislike these lads (well I do the mad ones) - have great laugh with (most) of them. But just handicapped golf is not for me.
A lad getting 50 points. I don't get it, never will, and I can't accept it - or find it acceptable. It is a failed system. If you score over 45 , there is grounds for your handicap in round to be void. And an honest golfer wouldn't mind a dq as his handicap was incorrect.

Not for me. But sure the 99% are happy out.

So I'm the outlier.

I do think it would be a better game - if everyone was brought back to a tighter band and a significant action for over 40 points.
In that system - you could bring the lower performing players up too - but slower in my opinion.

I can see what you’re saying and I’d actually agree there is a certain logic to it. I guess the whole idea of handicapping ie that everyone can compete equally, has over time, been......... corrupted (is that a bit strong ??!) by human nature to a degree. But what’s the alternative ? Yes, gross golf is the only true measure, but that only suits a tiny proportion of golfers. It’s just not realistic to have everything gross.
Maybe I’m lucky in that scores over 40pts are fairly few and far between in my club so I’m not exposed to this phenomenon of needing 43/44 to compete. We had two 41s last weekend (placing everywhere, forward tees) yet 32pts won the same class 3 days ago (still winter rules !) in perfect weather. Yeah, you get the odd outlier score when someone goes mad and shoots 44pts but it’s not like it happens often and I kinda think “fair play, great score”. If they were doing it regularly I’d think something else entirely !
I cant really agree with no handicaps over 18 though. I mean why would somebody pony up €1,000 to join a club and have zero chance of ever being competitive ? It just wouldn’t happen. A massive number of guys have no interest in “improving” as such, and are happy out playing their golf with their buddies and every so often catching lightening in a bottle and winning a comp. Peopel still want the illusion that they have some chance, however small, of winning.
I think golf just isn’t like other sports in that all ages, shapes, sizes can play it and we need some system to allow for competition. It’s not like football where you retire when you can’t do it anymore. Everyone knows the gross scores are the best golf played on the day (I’d argue for a gross prize in every comp, to reflect that), but unfortunately rules can’t really account for a lot of the subjective stuff imo.

I know what you mean about 17 h/caps hitting GIR but there’s more to golf than hitting it. I genuinely know someone who, off the tee you’d say he was single figures, maybe even low single figures, yet when he gets to his drive, could honestly take 3 shots to go another 40yds and probably averages close to 40 putts per round. He’d give anything to get lower but rarely has 36pts, anyone who saw him purely off the tee would never believe that though.

You’re right about handicapped inter-club though !!

backspin.

I agree handicaps are important. But they need to be more reflective of true ability. There is too much tolerance of handicap building for teams etc.

Btw another way the bandits effect ordinary golfers is in the side betting 2 2 1 type matches people play. These guys are hard to take money off too.

Russman

backspin. wrote: »

I agree handicaps are important. But they need to be more reflective of true ability. There is too much tolerance of handicap building for teams etc.

Btw another way the bandits effect ordinary golfers is in the side betting 2 2 1 type matches people play. These guys are hard to take money off too.

Has that not effectively been wiped out now with the max increase of one shot per year though ? Anything over a longer term and you're into the realms of pure speculation as to why someone's handicap increased - intentionally, poor form, injury, life, not playing as much etc. etc.

GreeBo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

What you mean GreeBo - you only pay strokes ?

90% strokes