Luas Finglas

orangerhyme

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2024/01/05/dublins-largest-industrial-lands-since-docklands-to-be-redeveloped-for-housing/

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573481#Comment_121573481

Pubs in general aren’t built in new areas of Dublin. Old Sandyford has Sandyford House and the Lep Inn. New Sandyford relies on hotels and restaurants for as long as they are around. I’m fairly sure there’s no bar in Cherrywood or Clongriffen or any similar area.

It might be fair to say that there are very few new bars built at all, especially outside of the city centre.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573733#Comment_121573733

You have those classic big suburban pubs scattered all over Dublin but I guess they're not new anymore.

There's definitely a gap in the market in Sandyford cos it's so far from town.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571536#Comment_121571536

Speaking of Luas reaching that 20y milestone - wasn't the original business case for Luas built over a 25y time horizon? Where does that leave the rolling stock? Would they be up for replacement in the coming decade?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573911#Comment_121573911

Yes - the article below from last August explains….

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/new-luas-trams-for-network-expansion-estimated-to-cost-e300m-1521051.html

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574000#Comment_121574000

Surely they don't need to be fully retired at 20 and can be refurbished? Many airplanes fly up to 35yrs+, mostly cargo at that stage, but also a number of commercial aircraft are still flying at that age.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574046#Comment_121574046

They are built for that lifespan, just as aircraft are built for theirs

You may be able to refurbish them but the original manufacturer will not support the refurb

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574000#Comment_121574000

Veering off topic here a bit but I think they should look at the next order of Red Line trams being longer. It would involve relocating a couple of stops (and combining a couple of stops wouldn't be a bad thing), there should be an assessment of what options there are.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575752#Comment_121575752

It's very difficult but maybe not impossible.

The city center stops are very tight.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575759#Comment_121575759

But which ones exactly? Rationalising the number of stops wouldn't go amiss either given the length of the red line.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575802#Comment_121575802

The Busarus one is definitely tight but I guess they could just use Connolly maybe.

Pete_Cavan

The Busáras stop could be lengthened to 50m if Talbot Place became a cul-de-sac. The other stops I would look at it as a blank canvas, what stop locations/space makes sense. In reality, I'd expect very few stops to change but there is definitely scope for rationalisation along the Grand Canal. I'd also love to see the track at James's straightened to reduce the turn of bends, although again that is easier said than done. Thrown in priority at junctions and the Red Line could be an excellent service.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575941#Comment_121575941

Highly unlikely that Talbot Place would become a cul de sac - primarily as Gardai use it frequently to/from Store Street but also several Bus Éireann & Translink routes use it to access Busaras from Sheriff Street coming from the Airport. Sending them on a long loop detour wouldn’t be a positive move.

Increasing tram Red line tram priority would be challenging in the city centre. It has to go through the light cycles at O’Connell St, Marlborough St and Beresford Place/Gardiner St as the knock on effects on Green Line trams and the bus service would be very negative - that’s precisely the reason it was turned off at those junctions.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575828#Comment_121575828

Trams going to/from the Point don’t stop at Connolly, and these make up the majority of the service. Busaras is the main stop for people going to/from Connolly Station on those trams.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573460#Comment_121573460

There’s one in Blackrock too.

Also lots of old social houses around big houses and the same Part V as everywhere else now.

Refugee centre opening off Clyde Road now beside the great and the good.

Dublin isn’t particularly segregated. There’s always going to be nicer areas, there’s nowhere on earth with anything else.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573481#Comment_121573481

The 1960s-1990s style “new” suburban pub no longer makes sense as a new venture.

People with young families do not socialise as much, or should I say both parents are now expected to pull their weight.

If they do go out, they can get a taxi far easier than 30 years ago and they want to make the most of it.

Back in the day they could get away with the drink and the family carveries.

Now they need to be something special.

If you take Sandyford, there is the Lep Inn close by. O’Dwyers is close.

Add to that that you can get to Dundrum for some entertainment with a few Luas stops. Ranelagh a few beyond that and then town.

It’s an interesting one with the concept of the 15 minute city that is mentioned for the Dublin Industrial Estate.

I’ve always thought it was flawed concept tbh and would worry here.

L1011

The giant suburban barn pub was a relic of the rules about distance from other pubs - you had to have so few of them that they ended up huge. The 70s pubs in D15 were built to almost a 1km grid to keep them sufficiently apart from each each other.

Some of them are gone, the others are rarely using their full floor area anymore.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575752#Comment_121575752

Which stops exactly would you combine? Would be very controversial I think.

I said it before, but I think having two stops on Abbey Street either side of OCS would improve access to Metro, Green Luas and bus routes. Lights could be sequenced to allow trams a straight run through OCS and Marlborough street by varying the dwell time at both Abbey Street stops.

Jervis could be moved west closer to Capel. Since this street is now pedestrianised, it's quite poorly served by any public transport. For example, if you get a bus to OCS, it's quicker walking to Capel street, than walking to Abbey Luas, waiting for a Luas, going one stop to Jervis, then still needing to walk down Capel St. It could be better.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576690#Comment_121576690

Dublin's very segregated. I know there's social housing sprinkled around and the odd halting site, but there's a huge stretch of the south side that's upper middle class really.

There's also very deprived areas where most people wouldn't consider living, although these are definitely shrinking.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576804#Comment_121576804

People are lazy though and the local will always have it's place. A "3rd space" it's known as. It's important for communities. They all do good coffee and pastries now also, so ladies can meet there for lunch. Dwyer's and The Lep Inn are miles away also.

I know habits are changing though. To me those big suburban pubs are very Dublin but I've noticed these suburbs are can be very elderly now.

I heard Jason Byrne in an interview that his dad moved into a new estate in Ballinteer in the 70s and when the Ballinteer House pub opened they offered a free pint to all the locals, so his dad went round the estate and anyone who came with him, were his friends for the next 40 years. His dad died recently, so they're customer base would be old now or dead now.

Sandyford is very multicultural also so maybe that's why there's no pub. Seems to be lots of Indians.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577103#Comment_121577103

Depending where in Indian they're from (being a huge and extremely populous country, it is not the same everywhere by any means), Indians do pubs and have their own type of pub in England which I'd love to see in Dublin - decent curry and pints.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577119#Comment_121577119

Any Indians I know don't drink much. They socialise with food mostly.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577133#Comment_121577133

Probably from a lower drinking part of the country. Beer and whiskey are huge industries there - but certain states consume virtually no alcohol.

Same with vegetarianism - some states are over 50%, some would have far far fewer than Ireland.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577103#Comment_121577103

The Lep is a 10 min walk from the Sandyford stop.

Sandyford has plenty of “3rd places”, although that is a US concept really.

There’s no reason why any new location has to have a pub in this day and age for the reasons I’ve said.

I did always wonder why something like Top Golf didn’t come to Ireland- particularly around the GFC. Sandyford would have been an idea location and it already has its cluster of activity type areas which is really how an entertainment space for Sandyford would be built.

In terms of this industrial estate, what concerns me about 15 minute city thinking is that it is just rebranding “proper planning”. Proper planning has its uses but it also can lead to constraints on development and waste.

There’s no reason why that area would need loads of pubs or “jobs”. I agree there should be leisure space and opportunities for clusters of interesting industry but it isn’t a must.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580104#Comment_121580104

I agree 100%. 15 minute city is just a buzzword really.

It's just good planning to have neighbourhoods with medium density to all amenities nearby like schools, sports, shops, services, offices, jobs, public transport, entertainment. People will change jobs anyway so it's not the most important element.

Bad planning is the likes of Tallaght and Ballymun which had literally nothing but housing initially. They've improved since but are still lacking.

I think by the time that Glasnevin Industrial Estate begins to be developed, the office oversupply will have gone full circle so there'll be demand again for office space near the city center so they can be incorporated.

Most of the available land in the city center is almost gone now. There's a couple of plots around the North Docklands and that's it's really. We'll have a few years of office oversupply, then it'll pick up again.

Glasnevin Industrial Estate just requires an excellent master plan with clear guidelines and then just rezone it. The market will take care of the rest. Initially it might be a **** place to live but in time it will be desirable. Maybe student apartments can be the pioneers.

If I was more courageous, I'd buy a house in south Finglas now as an investment and rent it out for a few years. It won't be any cheaper than now.

loco_scolo

Something that just crossed my mind on the Luas extension to Finglas, which could explain it's slow progress. Given the required closure of the Glasnevin site for Metro, there will likely be periods where the Maynooth line has to terminate at Broombridge, which would put pressure on Luas capacity into the city centre.

I couldn't understand why Luas Finglas wasn't moving faster, but this could explain it. Although maybe that was obvious!?!

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674434#Comment_121674434

It's much simpler than that. The works at Glasnevin could be completed long before a new luas to finglas was opened even if they both started work tomorrow.

It's just a lack of resources. The state agencies involved cannot run so many large projects concurrently.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674434#Comment_121674434

Is there even a turnback facilitate at Broombridge?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121675222#Comment_121675222

No. One would be installed if required.

The nearest is just before Glasnevin Junction

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121675019#Comment_121675019

To be fair, I think the works on Finglas Luas could be completed long before Glasnevin, if the will was there. The Saggart extension was approved in mid-2008 and opened 3years later in mid-2011.

The lack of will is what I don't understand. Waiting until Dart+ and Metro are finished, due to limited resources, is a poor reason to delay it by 10+ years. It's a relatively small project in the grand scheme of what is planned for the city.