Larry buys local farm from Vultures

spyderski

As reported in the Farmers Journal

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/goodman-firm-swoops-in-on-family-farm-366488

Disgraceful or just business? What do ye think?

Wanderer78

Unethical and immoral, we ve a lot of deep soul searching to do as a nation, but that may not happen, best of luck to the family

whelan2

These stories shouldn't make national media.

Wanderer78

whelan2 wrote:

These stories shouldn't make national media.

I'd disagree to a point, it's important for us to know the damage such events have on our society

whelan2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd disagree to a point, it's important for us to know the damage such events have on our society

There's alot to the story in fairness . Some people love other people's misfortunes

Wanderer78

whelan2 wrote:

There's alot to the story in fairness

There generally is, and it's normally not good at the individual and family level

duffysfarm

i am from the general area. the person who owned the farm built a massive house at height of boom and never paid the builder. people round are not too happy to see larry in the neighbourhood but i dont think too many are sad for the former owners

duffysfarm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Unethical and immoral, we ve a lot of deep soul searching to do as a nation, but that may not happen, best of luck to the family

i would have to disagree. dont get me wrong, i would never buy a farm from a bank and i believe strongly in family farms but if i received a loan from a bank and gave my land as secruity and agreed to this then i dont see how i could argue with a bank if they repocessed the property. at the end of the day it was the irish tax payer who bailed out the banks and i would not expect some one else to pay back my loans if i made a bad decision.
i would like to hear some ones argument where by they borrow money, give secruity and dont pay back the loan but expect me and everyone else to pay it back on their behalf? this has happened to many people who are not farmers in every town and village up and down the country and they never got special treatment so i dont see why farmers should.

Count Mondego

Business is business and a farm is no exception. If a lad owned a sweetshop and it was taken off him by the bank there'd be no hullabaloo over it. This media hype about 'vulture funds' is wearing thin too. There should be far more house repossessions in Ireland also.

freedominacup

Count Mondego wrote: »

There should be far more house repossessions in Ireland also.

The upshot of that would be the taxpayer paying three times. Once to bailout the banks, once in higher interest to cover the shortfall between what the vulture funds pay and the balance owed and once to house the families dispossessed. There's definitely two laws on finance in this country. Most of the developers are back in clover, the bankers are pi$$ing and moaning about being underpaid on €500,000 salaries but the small guy should get hosed according to you??

Odelay

freedominacup wrote: »

The upshot of that would be the taxpayer paying three times. Once to bailout the banks, once in higher interest to cover the shortfall between what the vulture funds pay and the balance owed and once to house the families dispossessed. There's definitely two laws on finance in this country. Most of the developers are back in clover, the bankers are pi$$ing and moaning about being underpaid on €500,000 salaries but the small guy should get hosed according to you??

If someone can't or won't pay for their house, repossess it. ****ed if I'm going to pay for it because at the end of they day the money has to come from somewhere.

freedominacup

Odelay wrote: »

If someone can't or won't pay for their house, repossess it. ****ed if I'm going to pay for it because at the end of they day the money has to come from somewhere.

You're going to pay for it. In part you already have. In part you are currently paying for it. But you now seem to be determined to pay to put further money in the pockets of big business mainly through some misplaced sense of moral superiority. For me I'd rather pay the last bit to maintain families in their homes providing they were doing what they could to meet me some bit along the way rather than line the pockets of vulture fund directors. That's just me though. I get altitude sickness if I ever try to take the moral high ground.

Bass Reeves

There are several issues here. If you borrow money and cannot repay it what should happen. Banks sell to vultre funds because they are seen as a soft touch to deal with. If a bank try's to repossess a house or a farm, you have one several organisations trying to prevent them. They have to hire baliffs and have huge issues getting there money back. Then some people have the attitude when a loan is sold to a vulture fund they should get a discount for repaying it. But banks bundle loans sell at a discount and vulture funds will have a mixed basket. It looks like this is the way it will be from now on because of the resistance to normal repossessions. In turn this forces banks to increase there margin's to make a profit because of above normal losses on bad loans.


But this is bad publicity for Larry Goodman and the Goodman group. I think that Larry jnr lacks the instint of his father. He seems an extra sharp operator. He should not really have tounced it with a bargepole. Not that I have an issue with the farm being sold but rather as business taht si dealing with farmers day in day out it leaves a bit of a smell behind. He is well enough off not to need to buy this particular farm more than likly at 10-20% under its true value.

Mr. Incognito

I dont see the issue

Borrowed money. Spent it.

Gave farm as security. Security called in.

The end.

Take responsibility for your own actions and dont be whining.

Count Mondego

freedominacup wrote: »

but the small guy should get hosed according to you??

Where did I say bankers should get bigger bonuses?


There are thousands of people in arrears who refuse to even talk to their lenders, should they keep their houses because they're the 'small guy' ?

Reggie.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I dont see the issue

Borrowed money. Spent it.

Gave farm as security. Security called in.

The end.

Take responsibility for your own actions and dont be whining.

Agreed

freedominacup

Count Mondego wrote: »

Where did I say bankers should get bigger bonuses?


?

You didn't. You did say that the small fish should get hosed despite the favourable treatment those most responsible for the crash received in the main.

Mooooo

As freedom eluded to if developers and banks had proper repercussions for there bolloxing, repossessions and sales such as this wouldn't be as opposed in general, the fact that they got off more or less Scott free makes this difficult now

20silkcut

Mooooo wrote: »

As freedom eluded to if developers and banks had proper repercussions for there bolloxing, repossessions and sales such as this wouldn't be as opposed in general, the fact that they got off more or less Scott free makes this difficult now

There has always been fierce opposition to re possession of farm land in this country long before the Celtic tiger.
There is something of a famine hangover almost peculiar to this country which adds in an irrational emotional element to the process.

godtabh

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Unethical and immoral, we ve a lot of deep soul searching to do as a nation, but that may not happen, best of luck to the family

How is it unethical and immoral?

I've personally worked with Laurence Goodman Jr. I might not like him but he is decent to work for

HughCassidy

whelan2 wrote: »

There's alot to the story in fairness . Some people love other people's misfortunes

That would be Ireland all right dance on your grave.

HughCassidy

Larry goodman the man that nearly destroyed the meat industry with his corruption.

flatty

The issue with this isn't the repossession and purchase perhaps, it just holds a lens to how the goodmans were treated in the past.
Compare and contrast.

memorystick

What about those who pay their way? I'm driving a middling car and working while trying to build up a farm. What incentive have I to keep paying my way when those who don't can get away with it?

whelan2

HughCassidy wrote: »

Larry goodman the man that nearly destroyed the meat industry with his corruption.

It's his son that bought it.

HughCassidy

whelan2 wrote: »

It's his son that bought it.

Where did the money come from I wonder.

K.G.

Dont buy the line that he had 1.2million of a loan facilitiy lined up.if he couldnt make the payments on the original loan he wasnt going to be able to put a credible plan together to get 1.2 millio

coolshannagh28

freedominacup wrote: »

The upshot of that would be the taxpayer paying three times. Once to bailout the banks, once in higher interest to cover the shortfall between what the vulture funds pay and the balance owed and once to house the families dispossessed. There's definitely two laws on finance in this country. Most of the developers are back in clover, the bankers are pi$$ing and moaning about being underpaid on €500,000 salaries but the small guy should get hosed according to you??

There s a lot of truth in this , the banks were recapitalised for just this eventuality ie to write down bad loans to par value and restructure the remainder . Instead they have gobbled the capital and are flogging the bad debt to vulture funds while charging high interest rates and spinning that this is necessary ,it is simple profiteering . The treatment of trackers gives a good indication of the banks true position.

White Clover

flatty wrote: »

The issue with this isn't the repossession and purchase perhaps, it just holds a lens to how the goodmans were treated in the past.
Compare and contrast.

So so true, they were on their knees only to be put standing again by a known crook of a taoiseach.

godtabh

HughCassidy wrote: »

Where did the money come from I wonder.

I wouldnt call himself made but he has 3/4 big developments on the go separate to LG Snr

Siamsa Sessions

I can't but smile at the IFA having a go at the very same vulture funds who're being invited to Ireland by the IFA's kin in Fine Gael.

Ye can't have yer cake and eat it lads!

I will now duck for cover before the politicking and civil war stories start. NOTE: I have never voted for FG or FF and have no intention of ever doing so.

:):)

John_Rambo

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I can't but smile at the IFA having a go at the very same vulture funds who're being invited to Ireland by the IFA's kin in Fine Gael.

Ye can't have yer cake and eat it lads!

I will now duck for cover before the politicking and civil war stories start. NOTE: I have never voted for FG or FF and have no intention of ever doing so.

:):)

The best one was Michael Healy-Rea out protesting with his constituents against the Allsops sales of distressed properties.

Next day, he walked in to the Allsop office and bought one of the houses. Said there was nothing unethical or immoral about it.

And got voted back in by the same constituents.

Legend.

Ronin247

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I dont see the issue

Borrowed money. Spent it.

Gave farm as security. Security called in.

The end.

Take responsibility for your own actions and dont be whining.

To play Devils Advocate......

A man borrowed 100,000. Paying back 500 per month, farm put up as collateral

Government allow bondholders to be repaid 100% and Irish taxpayer picks up a bill of 60 billion or so. Taxes are raised.

Man is taxed an extra 200 per month because the country has to repay French and German banks bad debts.

Man is now struggling to pay the 500 per month so the bank takes his home off him and sells it to a friend for a massive reduction.

This to me is what is truly happening in some of these cases.

Siamsa Sessions

Ronin247 wrote: »

To play Devils Advocate......

A man borrowed 100,000. Paying back 500 per month, farm put up as collateral

Government allow bondholders to be repaid 100% and Irish taxpayer picks up a bill of 60 billion or so. Taxes are raised.

Man is taxed an extra 200 per month because the country has to repay French and German banks bad debts.

Man is now struggling to pay the 500 per month so the bank takes his home off him and sells it to a friend for a massive reduction.

This to me is what is truly happening in some of these cases.

Very clearly put - same seems to be happening with homes. People could pay (just about) but stealth taxes and reduced Govt capital spending to pay bank bailout pushed them over the edge

Siamsa Sessions

John_Rambo wrote: »

The best one was Michael Healy-Rea out protesting with his constituents against the Allsops sales of distressed properties.

Next day, he walked in to the Allsop office and bought one of the houses. Said there was nothing unethical or immoral about it.

And got voted back in by the same constituents.

Legend.

Says a lot about people’s trust of central Government in Dublin when they have more fate in such a local “character”

oldsmokey

whelan2 wrote: »

These stories shouldn't make national media.

Why? Larrys avarice is a darned sight more relevant thanmost of the rubbish making headlines

Cattlepen

I would love to borrow 1.4 million to bury in my farm especially if my business plan didn’t work and I got to keep my collateral. I’d be the envy of all the neighbors with my newly improved farm probably equipped with the best of shiny new machines.
BUT that won’t happen in the real world so guess what? I won’t borrow 1.4 million so there won’t be a problem
And stop the Larry bashing. If it wasn’t him it would be someone else. Captain moonlight is not needed anymore as we are not an oppressed nation any longer. Get off the high moral ground, it’s a dangerous place to stand when the wind starts to blow

TITANIUM.

John_Rambo wrote: »

The best one was Michael Healy-Rea out protesting with his constituents against the Allsops sales of distressed properties.

Next day, he walked in to the Allsop office and bought one of the houses. Said there was nothing unethical or immoral about it.

And got voted back in by the same constituents.

Legend.

Not disagreeing with your point, twas a super hypocritical move on his part, but tbd there has not been an election since that incident so your last point is incorrect. But will he be 're-elected? Of course he will. There's a reason he received the highest number of first preference votes in the entire country, and it's not for being a "Character" I can assure you.

memorystick

Cattlepen wrote: »

I would love to borrow 1.4 million to bury in my farm especially if my business plan didn’t work and I got to keep my collateral. I’d be the envy of all the neighbors with my newly improved farm probably equipped with the best of shiny new machines.
BUT that won’t happen in the real world so guess what? I won’t borrow 1.4 million so there won’t be a problem
And stop the Larry bashing. If it wasn’t him it would be someone else. Captain moonlight is not needed anymore as we are not an oppressed nation any longer. Get off the high moral ground, it’s a dangerous place to stand when the wind starts to blow

''Tis only a few years ago that Irish farmers were being encouraged to buy land in Eastern Europe when it should have been left to the locals. We're all great to invest in other economies but that's forgotten about.

Cattlepen

memorystick wrote: »

''Tis only a few years ago that Irish farmers were being encouraged to buy land in Eastern Europe when it should have been left to the locals. We're all great to invest in other economies but that's forgotten about.

I’m missing your point. Can you explain

Count Mondego

Cattlepen wrote: »

I’m missing your point. Can you explain

I think the point is that Irish investors acted like 'vulture funds' in this regard.

Cattlepen

Count Mondego wrote: »

I think the point is that Irish investors acted like 'vulture funds' in this regard.

Thanks. I get it now

wrangler

It's foolish asking farmers not to buy at the auctions, the original owner will still owe the shortfall on the bank debt, taking the competition away will only leave a bigger shortfall

duffysfarm

Ronin247 wrote: »

To play Devils Advocate......

A man borrowed 100,000. Paying back 500 per month, farm put up as collateral

Government allow bondholders to be repaid 100% and Irish taxpayer picks up a bill of 60 billion or so. Taxes are raised.

Man is taxed an extra 200 per month because the country has to repay French and German banks bad debts.

Man is now struggling to pay the 500 per month so the bank takes his home off him and sells it to a friend for a massive reduction.

This to me is what is truly happening in some of these cases.

True taxes were increased but I have never seen it were a business was closed to increased taxes

Who2

Larry junior, while I’m no fan believe has done nothing wrong, That farmer is now out looking for the sympathy vote of the general public. Contractors, suppliers, builders, meal merchants, the list goes on but it’s what the banks are owed that gets shown in the papers. At least I can say Larry junior will pay what he owes.

gordongekko

I haven't clicked on the link but what the hell will the drummer from U2 do with a farm?

kk.man

gordongekko wrote: »

I haven't clicked on the link but what the hell will the drummer from U2 do with a farm?

He is going planting a few Joshua trees !

coolshannagh28

duffysfarm wrote: »

True taxes were increased but I have never seen it were a business was closed to increased taxes

Increased taxes depress consumer sentiment and spending , decreased footfall and sales eventually leads to closure.

Bass Reeves

There will be more weeping and gnashing of teeth. In the sunday times today it is reported that Rabobank intend to sell off it loan book portfolio to vulture funds as it exits the Irish market completely. While they have not being lending in Ireland for a few years there loan book was being managed externally by Capita. Now it will be sold

patsy_mccabe

I don't think banks should not be allowed distance themselves from their bad loans. If they had to deal with their own bad loans, it would have a twofold effect. Firstly they would have to deal with the bad press from it and so more likely to be vigilant to those they lend to and secondly, the general public would be more causious about borrowing in the first place.

cute geoge

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There will be more weeping and gnashing of teeth. In the sunday times today it is reported that Rabobank intend to sell off it loan book portfolio to vulture funds as it exits the Irish market completely. While they have not being lending in Ireland for a few years there loan book was being managed externally by Capita. Now it will be sold

Would that be including some of the old acc farm loans as i think rabobank bought acc at some stage