What would you vote in a referendum on euthanasia?

screamer

Just curious on this one with all the talk of the abortion referendum, what would you vote in a referendum on euthanasia if it was to legalise it in Ireland?

McMurphy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya_uJHdOtdc

GarIT

Absolutely. I see no reason why anybody shouldn’t have that choice.

AnneFrank

I'd vote yes 100 % for adults in their right mind who choose it

Cherry Blossom

It would depend on the circumstances in which it would be allowed.

Pauliedragon

Yes as long as the person is of sound mind. I think medical science has us living longer but hasn't evolved enough to let us be comfortable in a lot of cases.

the_pen_turner

yes but only for terminal or serious long term debilitating ilnesses when all resonable medical options have been tried

_Dara_

I’m in favour. I’m terminally ill and hate that much of my waking hours are filled with worries about painful my death is going to be. And I don’t want to waste away. I’ve pretty much decided to take care of it myself (I owe nobody a painful death) but trying to figure out the logistics is hard. And I resent having to waste time pondering this.

someyoke

Pro choice on this one all day long.

ChunkyLover54

I'd vote yes - I have only good things to say about the young people of Asia.

XsApollo

Yes , in certain circumstances .

Greybottle

My Dad had considered this and would probably have gone through with it before time ran out for him anyway.

After witnessing his torture I'd vote Yes, so long as the person is lucid and in sound mind. I'd no doubt canvass and campaign for it too even tough I've never done anything like that in my life.

the_pen_turner

_Dara_ wrote: »

I’m in favour. I’m terminally ill and hate that much of my waking hours are filled with worries about painful my death is going to be. And I don’t want to waste away. I’ve pretty much decided to take care of it myself (I owe nobody a painful death) but trying to figure out the logistics is hard. And I resent having to waste time pondering this.

im 100% agreeing with you but reading it said by somone in that position makes it really hard

Vojera

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

It would depend on the circumstances in which it would be allowed.

This. I believe euthanasia should be available for those who want it, but it would need to be extremely tightly regulated to ensure elderly people aren't pressurised/guilted into it by money-grabbing family members, etc., and that only people of sound mind can avail of it.

Anyone who has had a family member or friend go through a terminal illness can surely understand why people agree with it, even if they personally don't.

Sile Na Gig

My OH is a healthcare professional, recently got asked to lobby for euthanasia. He said no way which surprised me as he’s generally sympathetic to suffering. From the family dynamics he observes he felt that practically people would feel pressure to take that option so as to remove the burden on their families.

I don’t think that this is a reason to force people to continue a life of suffering though.

_Dara_

the_pen_turner wrote: »

im 100% agreeing with you but reading it said by somone in that position makes it really hard

We should be listened to!

Hitman3000

Not sure I would have the courage to end things myself but I would vote Yes to give someone the choice to decide for themselves.

NIMAN

the_pen_turner wrote: »

yes but only for terminal or serious long term debilitating ilnesses when all resonable medical options have been tried

I think thats a given. That applies in countries that allow it.

Can't see it being allowed for a 30yr old who's girlfriend just broke up with him.

0byme75341jo28

Every adult without dependents should have the choice.

garancafan

So every adult with dependents should be denied the choice?

0byme75341jo28

garancafan wrote: »

So every adult with dependents should be denied the choice?

Barring terminal illness, yes.

Unquestionably, yes. To my mind, it's a far more straightforward question than even abortion is. I don't think the topic of euthanasia is remotely as complex or as ethically hazardous as other moral dilemmas we are faced with.

Check out the assisted suicide of Michèle Causse on YouTube, if you haven't already seen it. Profoundly comforting and humane way to depart this world, in my view

One eyed Jack

Vojera wrote: »

Anyone who has had a family member or friend go through a terminal illness can surely understand why people agree with it, even if they personally don't.

I wouldn't be too sure about that to be honest. People who don't share the same perspective on the value of life as those who advocate for euthanasia are unlikely to ever understand why someone would advocate for euthanasia.

_Dara_ wrote: »

We should be listened to!

I don't think it's fair to say that you're not being listened to, you are being listened to, in just the same way as people who disagree with legislating to permit euthanasia in Ireland are being listened to. I don't see any reason why only those who advocate for euthanasia should be listened to tbh, I would advocate for euthanasia myself, but I'd also like to hear from those people who disagree with it, so I could understand better why they disagree with it and whether there could ever be some common ground reached.

As for the idea of what way I might vote in a referendum on the issue, I'd first have to read about what is proposed, and the legislation being proposed to allow for euthanasia, before I'd vote one way or the other.

NIMAN

I think something kinda sad about your death being on YouTube, but hey, thats the way of the world I suppose.

I notice there's loads more videos on the list.....must be a new thing now, filming your departure.

Whispered

Yes.

The documentary "Choosing to die" is a difficult but eye opening watch.

Can we just leave these sort of questions aside and let people just do these things privately without making a fuss?

...

Rubberchikken

Id vote yes. People should be able to make a tupe of will stating that they wish to do this when they want to bow out of this world.

gctest50

Vote? i'd open a clinic if i could in the morning

No questions except :

Are you of sound mind ?

Do you want:

[ ] kittens ?
[ ]puppies ?
[ ]strippers ?

It'd be lovely


much better than :

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can we just leave these sort of questions aside and let people just do these things privately without making a fuss?

...

if by "do these things privately" means a rope in a shed somewhere

thebull85

Whispered wrote: »

Yes.

The documentary "Choosing to die" is a difficult but eye opening watch.

was that the one with Terry Pratchett? very upsetting watch for me at the time as my father had MS, he wanted to die and stopped taking his medication which quite quickly led to his death.

I agree with euthanasia but as has been said before only in certain circumstances, i feel some elderly people may feel obliged to die if this was brought in fully across the board.

gctest50

much better :

bodice ripper

Deleted User wrote:

Can we just leave these sort of questions aside and let people just do these things privately without making a fuss?

I had the privilege to watch a human being I adored refuse food and fluids in order to wrench control of her existence back. A fuss? She should have had an honour guard.

One eyed Jack

_Dara_ wrote: »

Did I say that other viewpoints shouldn’t be listened to?

Also, seriously, One Eyed Jack, succinctness is a nifty skill. You should try it. Reading your posts is like wading through treacle.

Oh and you couldn’t possibly know what barriers I and others like me come up against unless you are in the very position we’re in. So you’re not qualified to tell me I’m being listened to.

I'll keep this brief so.

1. You implied it as though your opinion should carry more weight in a discussion regarding policy decisions in relation to euthanasia. I don't agree that it should.

2. You're not obliged either to read or reply to them.

3. You're posting your opinion in public, people are responding, and you're claiming you're not being listened to.

Ok then.

AllForIt

I've never heard an argument against it that I found even slightly convincing. If there were a referendum I wouldn't have to think twice to vote yes.

_Dara_

Deleted User wrote: »

Can we just leave these sort of questions aside and let people just do these things privately without making a fuss?

...

Well, no, because the methods available to those of us who want to end our own suffering are generally very painful and/or violent and more than half the time, they don't even work, leaving the person in even more pain. (Seriously, check out the stats on success rates for different methods)

There is no painless, surefire method available. Nembutal, the euthanasia drug is hard to get one's hands on. Impossible, I would say, or nearly so.

There is no such thing as not making a fuss. Whatever method chosen will cause one.

If euthanasia was legal, it would mean that a person could chose their time of passing in a pain-free way, surrounded by family instead of organising and executing it alone. (it has to be organised and carried out alone or else the other persons present could land themselves in hot water)

And many people in places with legal euthanasia procure the drugs but never use them. The fact that they know the option is there gives them peace of mind and they don't have to fret about it anymore.

Believe me, I have spent a lot of time thinking about this. If you think it's easy to off oneself, think again. Especially as terminally ill folk are in a different class to people who are suicidal. Most terminally ill folk love life as much as anyone else so still have that mental self-preservation barrier. So we don't even really have that adrenaline kick to get us through. That's why a pain-free method should be available so that we can leave life relatively content.

_Dara_

One eyed Jack wrote: »

2. You're not obliged either to read or reply to them.

You're very right. For the first time ever, I'll be utilising the ignore list function.

J Mysterio

Thread needs poll.

s7ryf3925pivug

I'd vote yes.

Saw horrific state of my father for months after everyone else had decided they hadn't the stomach for it. It can be unnecessary and unkind to sustain life if it only entails suffering.

_Dara_

Ryder Slow Bow wrote: »

I'd vote yes.

Saw horrific state of my father for months after everyone else had decided they hadn't the stomach for it. It can be unnecessary and unkind to sustain life if it only entails suffering.

That’s awful. Unfortunately a lot of people find that friends and even family fall away when they are diagnosed with a life-limiting illness. I’ve been very fortunate that that hasn’t happened to me because it is really common. Many people can’t handle death. I’m sorry that you and your dad were deserted.

Calhoun

I would vote Yes , some pretty horrible diseases out there.

SeantheMan

screamer wrote: »

Just curious on this one with all the talk of the abortion referendum, what would you vote in a referendum on euthanasia if it was to legalise it in Ireland?

Why did you not make a poll for the thread ?

Sam Quentin

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

My OH is a healthcare professional, recently got asked to lobby for euthanasia. He said no way which surprised me as he’s generally sympathetic to suffering. From the family dynamics he observes he felt that practically people would feel pressure to take that option so as to remove the burden on their families.

I don’t think that this is a reason to force people to continue a life of suffering though.

So he'd be happy to see the individual suffer and their family suffer also!?!?
What a selfish attitude.
Obviously his line of work has hardened him to such suffering.
But it should not make him less sympathetic to terminally ill patients in severe constant pain and at the same time have no empathy towards their family who have to watch this needles suffering of a loved one!?

I would certainly vote yes. People with debilitating and/or terminal illnesses but who are still of sound mind* should be allowed to die on their own terms if they so wish. Nobody should be forced to suffer unnecessary pain to appease the Helen Lovejoys of the world.

*the "sound mind" part is where it gets tricky, of course; I wonder if it would ever be possible for one to make a pre-emptive declaration to avail of euthanasia should one be diagnosed with Alzheimer's? Because even at the early stage it would (presumably) already be too late to be considered of sound mind and therefore the option would be gone. I'm just pulling this example off the top of my head, I have no knowledge whatsoever of medical ethics/law but Alzheimer's is one of two illnesses (the other being motor neurone disease) that terrify me the most to think about ever being diagnosed with.

_Dara_

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

My OH is a healthcare professional, recently got asked to lobby for euthanasia. He said no way which surprised me as he’s generally sympathetic to suffering. From the family dynamics he observes he felt that practically people would feel pressure to take that option so as to remove the burden on their families.

The way to deal with that is to have the patient interviewed by psychiatrics alone. Any shrink worth their salt will recognise coercion. The euthanasia should not be allowed to proceed if the doctor is not convinced that there isn’t coercion.

I’m not convinced that your OH’s reticence is purely down to coercion fears. Healthcare professionals are trained to save lives. I think many struggle with the idea of ending one.

Sam Quentin

_Dara_ wrote: »

That’s awful. Unfortunately a lot of people find that friends and even family fall away when they are diagnosed with a life-limiting illness. I’ve been very fortunate that that hasn’t happened to me because it is really common. Many people can’t handle death. I’m sorry that you and your dad were deserted.

I think in a lot of instances it boils down to time and money.
We can't just sit here and have a 'debate' about such a huge episode in a families life, if we fail to bring up the very important subject in life of time and money.
It's not harsh and it's not cruel or non sympathetic if someone says and admits that they haven't got the time or money to deal with such a traumatic situation. It also doesn't mean that they can't deal(in their mind heart and soul)with death....

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would certainly vote yes. People with debilitating and/or terminal illnesses but who are still of sound mind* should be allowed to die on their own terms if they so wish. Nobody should be forced to suffer unnecessary pain to appease the Helen Lovejoys of the world.

Nice false dilemma you've presented there, but it's completely inaccurate. I don't imagine you'll meet too many people who want anyone to suffer pain unnecessarily, let alone suffer pain for their own appeasement. There's nothing "Helen Lovejoy" about that, it's just basic human empathy. It's a good way to characterise anyone who doesn't agree with legislating for euthanasia as incapable of experiencing empathy though.

*the "sound mind" part is where it gets tricky, of course; I wonder if it would ever be possible for one to make a pre-emptive declaration to avail of euthanasia should one be diagnosed with Alzheimer's? Because even at the early stage it would (presumably) already be too late to be considered of sound mind and therefore the option would be gone. I'm just pulling this example off the top of my head, I have no knowledge whatsoever of medical ethics/law but Alzheimer's is one of two illnesses (the other being motor neurone disease) that terrify me the most to think about ever being diagnosed with.

There are legal means recognised in other countries such as living wills and advanced directives, but these are not without controversy in their application either.

_Dara_

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I think in a lot of instances it boils down to time and money.
We can't just sit here and have a 'debate' about such a huge episode in a families life, if we fail to bring up the very important subject in life of time and money.
It's not harsh and it's not cruel or non sympathetic if someone says and admits that they haven't got the time or money to deal with such a traumatic situation. It also doesn't mean that they can't deal(in their mind heart and soul)with death....

I really wouldn’t agree. Your sibling distances themselves almost immediately from you because they don’t have the time or money? (Has happened to a few people I know who are in the same situation as me) I don’t buy that at all.

Time and money? How much does a phone call cost? Seems like a very minor expenditure of both time and money in comparison to what you’d be giving to the recipient.

This is incredibly common. Like I said, I’m unusual in having not lost any friends or family after my diagnosis. Time and money has got the square root of fuck all to do with it. And it’s very harsh and cruel and unsympathetic. Oh, you’re finding it hard to deal with? It’s nothing in comparison to what the individual is going through.

SeeMoreBut

Go into an old folks home and see some of the residents who are are on liquid food. Can’t speak or little no communication. Hunched over dead like. If they could see themselves would they want to be like that? I say vast majority wouldn’t want to be. I’d want to be gone.

Surprised department of health don’t bring it in to help reduce their budget

NIMAN

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

Go into an old folks home and see some of the residents who are are on liquid food. Can’t speak or little no communication. Hunched over dead like. If they could see themselves would they want to be like that? I say vast majority wouldn’t want to be. I’d want to be gone.

Surprised department of health don’t bring it in to help reduce their budget

I think you over estimate the numbers who would choose to go tbh.

The human will to survive or keep alive is incredibly strong. I'd say if you asked many aging people if they want to kill themselves before they are like a zombie in a nursing home, you might not get the numbers you'd expect.

I appreciate the angle you are coming from though, but by saying that the Dept of Health could save a fortune if these old, frail people weren't about, you are kinda heading down the "get rid of them to feck" road. Dangerous.

By the time they get to this stage, they will be unlikely to be able to make the decision themselves, and I don't think we would want the time when a nursing home manager or a civil servant has the power to get rid of people cos they are a burden on the state.

RDM_83 again

I would consider voting yes but only if it was absolutely guaranteed that it could only be applied in cases of terminal illness.

Countries that allow euthanasia already have examples of ethically dubious edge cases being allowed

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2472320

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/9801251/Euthanasia-twins-had-nothing-to-live-for.html

Vojera

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I wouldn't be too sure about that to be honest. People who don't share the same perspective on the value of life as those who advocate for euthanasia are unlikely to ever understand why someone would advocate for euthanasia.

Honestly, if someone had seen someone they love suffer through the end of a terminal illness and still couldn't understand (even if they didn't agree) why some people support the availability of euthanasia, I would seriously worry about their lack of empathy.

I know for some it really is "life at any cost", but it's easy to say that when they're not the ones paying the price.

Deleted User wrote: »

Can we just leave these sort of questions aside and let people just do these things privately without making a fuss?

...

No, because it leaves family members open to prosecution, particularly where the person wanting to die is so ill that they cannot commit suicide or obtain the required materials to do so. Not to mention that committing suicide by overdose is a fcuking abysmal way to go, not like going to sleep at all like many people believe. So that means either buying things illegally off the internet or asking for help from someone close. The last thing these people want to do is leave a ****storm behind where one of their loved ones goes to prison.

Wanderer78

A definite yes from me, with restrictions of course