Removing brambles from woodland floor

looksee

I have now become the owner of a piece of woodland. It is natural and has not been touched in a good few years. There is a lot of small (and some big) fallen timber - much of it is embedded in the ground by ivy and brambles. The area most affected is about 5 acres.

There is another 12 or so acres that is not nearly as bad with brambles and which is to be mostly left to its own devices apart from normal maintenance. The whole area is going to be used for a tourism project. The worst affected area needs to be made safer underfoot and more accessible.

Some parts are just brambles, in other places there are bluebells amongst the brambles, and in other places thick ground ivy. If I use weedkiller at all it will be spot applied to the new bramble growth after it has been cut back. I do not want to wholesale destroy other plants. Well, apart from the swathes of sycamore seedlings!

What would be the best equipment to clear brambles on this scale? A petrol brush-cutter/strimmer? One of those brushcutters on wheels (not sure the ground is level enough, but it might be ok once the job was started). The most likely looking thing is a cord strimmer with an optional blade, any thoughts on these?

It is pretty important to be aware that the people using this equipment would be two women - I am not much use at this stage but daughter would be ok. Given a body harness and proper safety gear would it be an option? Are we nuts to even consider trying to manage one of these strimmers?

Edit - ground ivy = ivy growing over the ground rather than the weed of the same name. Looks nice but makes for very difficult walking.

fergus1001

hi look see is the particular woodland an ancient woodland ?

looksee

That is a very good question, that I cannot answer at the moment. It is not listed as one, and is not listed as anything special in terms of conservation. Even the forester I had looking at it was not very impressed with the timber Its very pretty though!

tabby aspreme

Hire a strimmer, with a blade, for a day and see how you get on with it, before you buy anything

looksee

Yes, I agree, that is what I was thinking of doing. I just wondered if anyone had any other ideas.

fergus1001

looksee wrote:

That is a very good question, that I cannot answer at the moment. It is not listed as one, and is not listed as anything special in terms of conservation. Even the forester I had looking at it was not very impressed with the timber Its very pretty though!

it may be eligible for native woodland conservation pm me and I may have a look depending on where you are

looksee

I had been wondering about that but there are so many other things going on I didn't get round to it. Would that sort of grant go towards getting rid of brambles. There is storm damage, half fallen timber, mostly-dead trees (still standing) and scratty saplings of various sorts too. There are also some very nice mature trees. We are doing our best to plan round the trees as we want to preserve as much of the environment as we possibly can, but we make an exception of the brambles!

fepper

looksee wrote: »

I had been wondering about that but there are so many other things going on I didn't get round to it. Would that sort of grant go towards getting rid of brambles. There is storm damage, half fallen timber, mostly dead trees (still standing) and scratty saplings of various sorts too.

Did you inherit it or buy it?

looksee

fepper wrote: »

Did you inherit it or buy it?

? Why do you ask?

fepper

looksee wrote: »

? Why do you ask?

Jeez! You might know its history as regards was the woodland put there purposely and may or may not have been grant aided decades ago or is it abandoned/neglected that just grew anything and may now qualify for full grant aid now with premium

fepper

fepper wrote: »

Jeez! You might know its history as regards was the woodland put there purposely and may or may not have been grant aided decades ago or is it abandoned/neglected that just grew anything and may now qualify for full grant aid now with premium

It's probably more useful to ask those questions then, rather than presume the OP or anyone else would be able to discern your intent from a completely irrelevant question.

Or are you some kind of a mind reader? :rolleyes:

my3cents

I've done that sort of clearance work with a bladed brush cutter, its very slow and very hard work if the brambles are well established and thick.

Once its been done once its much easier to follow up and knock over the new growth.

I'm an avid user of weed chemicals but wouldn't think about using them in an established woodland. What you are aiming for is a balance where you gently guide the environment into the shape you want it. As the woodland grows then it will naturally shade out brambles so any remaining becoming less vigorous each time you knock them over. Sycamore can be a pain I'd always aim to remove the source of the seed but in some locations sycamore may for many reasons (such as maritime exposure) be your main tree species.

The problem areas for maintenance can be the woodland edges (although they are the most biodiverse areas) and woodland rides both because they get more sun. Woodland rides can be helped out just by driving a tractor or 4WD down them occasionally followed by a bit of brush cutting. If labour is really short then rides and paths are the only places I'd use chemicals. Foot traffic will create its own path if there are enough visitors.

Plenty of bugs require fallen timber for their lava to grow in so being too tidy isn't really to be encouraged.

fepper

JayZeus wrote: »

It's probably more useful to ask those questions then, rather than presume the OP or anyone else would be able to discern intent from a completely irrelevant question.

Or are you some kind of a mind reader? :rolleyes:

I'm sure the op doesn't need you to discern intent with their reply
...they already have.

fepper

fepper wrote: »

I'm sure the op doesn't need you to discern intent with their reply
...they already have.

What is this, an ongoing exercise in cryptography? :rolleyes:

OP, if you're going cutting, make sure to get a brushcutter as opposed to anything primarily sold as a strimmer/weed-whacker. Ideally something with a straight drive shaft running into a bevel gearbox, onto which you can attach a cutting implement most suited to the particular task at hand. These include multiblade cutters, strimming heads and clearing saw blades.

looksee

Thanks JayZeus and my3cents, that's the kind of thing I was looking for - it reads as greek to me at the moment but with the terminology available I can figure it out.

The boundaries are surprisingly clear cut, banks and old walls, and the rides are mostly pretty clear apart from timber. Oddly the brambles are worst in the most shaded part of the woodland, the more open area is pretty much bramble free.

Its a big job, but not all the area is affected, a lot of it is much more 'interesting' floor with a good variety of plants. The worst affected is the area that will have to be 'tidied up' but the vast majority will be allowed to continue just being woodland. I hope to just move some of the fallen rotting timber that is tangled into briers and ivy into more concentrated heaps, at the moment it is almost impossible to get through in places for the shear amount of smallish wood on the ground. Ophelia certainly sorted out some of the less healthy trees. Its very easy to see the many different fungi, lichens, bugs etc on some pieces, I have no intention of disturbing them.

Thud

I've done something similar recently.

this thread might be of interest:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057864102

the problem with a brushcutter is that the blade is parallel to the ground, for brambles/ivy running along the ground this ins't much use on its own.
The thread above recommends slash hooks but you mention it's your daughter doing the clearing...a long handled shears/clippers might work in conjunction with the brushcutter.

http://www.handyhardware.ie/product/41340/Fiskars-Long-Handled-Lawn-Shear?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImKPa4v7S2gIVjBbTCh0cZQwSEAQYAiABEgLoQvD_BwE

it's also worth noting that it's those brambles that run along the ground can easily cause you to trip so might want to clear a bit of a path before using the brushcutter

ford2600

I've 7 acres of ash with a developing briar problem; once I'm sure there will be no issue with root damage I may introduce a few pigs and rotate them through wood

I have a nice Honda 4 stroke brush cutter and I'm not afraid of work but strimming acres of briars would be some hardship.

http://smallfarms.cornell.edu/2016/01/11/pigs-n-trees/

smurfsturf

I feel your pain as we have 8 acres of woodland, parts of which are impassable. Whatever I have done the brambles return after a year or two.

I tried the brush cutter approach - very time consuming, slow and in my case was impractical as the brambles were growing up into the trees so had to be disentangled first. Tried roundup - it worked initially but the brambles returned the following year.

I've now found an approach that seems to work but is laborious! I bought a pair of heavy duty leather gloves that extend almost to the elbow and a 3 pronged cultivator (like a rack with three prongs). I use the cultivator to 'comb' the bramble runners into a bundle (like a pony tail) which I then grab and pull on to rip the roots out the ground. If the roots stand firm I use the pointy end of a pick to rip them out. I then roll the brambles up and let them dry out and break down naturally.

I am winning the battle so far but it is still too early to declare victory!

P.S. thought about getting a couple of goats but not sure if they will fancy the trees more

looksee

Thank you for your replies.

@Thud The point about clearing paths first is very good! That is my issue with the brushcutter, using it on stuff growing parallel to the ground. I think it would be a 2 person job though, one lifting brambles and gathering them out of the way and the other cutting. The normal slash hooks are too heavy, but I have seen a lighter one on an aluminium handle that might do the job.

@smurfsturf, I have a feeling your approach is going to be pretty close to the way it will have to be done. I have to put in a fairly long road/path, which will be done by machinery, I think I will then work back from the road in strips creating a clear verge and hopefully this will make access easier and be more encouraging!

@ford2600, I have considered pigs or goats - I think the goats might be better?, but the area has a very considerable amount of boundary which is more or less people resistant, but would not keep goats in. I am not sure that fencing individual areas for goats would be successful or economic. I don't think we would have the facilities or knowledge to care for and rotate animals.

wayoutwest

I use a hedgecutter to establish paths through brambles - wave it around cutting the top loopy bits first and then work downward - the result is lots of small pieces that can be left as mulch - you can then get in with a strimmer without getting tangled up and scratched.
My petrol one packed up the other year so i replaced it with a cheap battery one although it hasn't got as much power as the petrol, it's incredible lightness (2 kilo) and the fact that you dont need ear protectors, makes it a pleasure to use.20180425_101947.jpg

Genghis Cant

Would a lad with a mini digger for the day not do serious work for you?

my3cents

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Would a lad with a mini digger for the day not do serious work for you?

I'm beginning to think this is less of a problem than the OP originally made out.

If the brambles are running along the ground they are only a potential problem not a current one.

I used to keep several rides open by taking a Weed Wacker (the nearest thing I could find to a similar victorian tool I had) or a Scythette with me on my walks and getting a bit of exercise.

looksee

my3cents wrote: »

I'm beginning to think this is less of a problem than the OP originally made out.

If the brambles are running along the ground they are only a potential problem not a current one.

I used to keep several rides open by taking a Weed Wacker (the nearest thing I could find to a similar victorian tool I had) or a Scythette with me on my walks and getting a bit of exercise.

That's an odd response! How much of a problem did I make it out to be? As much as it is! Why is it only a potential problem that the brambles are on the ground? When it gets into summer and the new growth is on them they will be about knee or hip high. That is an issue for what I want the land for, I asked how people get rid of brambles, and I have had some very useful and helpful replies. You sound as though I have been making a drama out of it! And yes, I have a weed whacker, but I need to do more than just keep paths open so it is hardly a sole solution.

Odelay

If you haven't done before, can you post some photos? It would help us understand the problem.

my3cents

looksee wrote: »

That's an odd response! How much of a problem did I make it out to be? As much as it is! Why is it only a potential problem that the brambles are on the ground? When it gets into summer and the new growth is on them they will be about knee or hip high. That is an issue for what I want the land for, I asked how people get rid of brambles, and I have had some very useful and helpful replies. You sound as though I have been making a drama out of it! And yes, I have a weed whacker, but I need to do more than just keep paths open so it is hardly a sole solution.

Its hard to see the problem when you can cut everything with a decent brush cutter (forget any form of strimmer line on brambles). If you keep cutting they don't come back. I've 200 yards of river bank by my house that proves that. After about 3 years of cutting twice a year the brambles were gone, the bank is now all bluebells.

Brambles growing along the ground are a minor issue and you can get them with a brush cutter anyway. I use the brush cutter in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5Gbahftz8c with the same three pointed blade. Once you have cut them new growth sticks up nicely to be cut with a brush cutter. What I do when I can is go back about a fortnight after cutting the bulk down and then you can see what you have missed first time and also catch the new growth. With the heavy three bladed cutter you can also recut and chop up any long sections you left first time so they don't need collecting up and rot down on the spot.

looksee

my3cents wrote: »

Its hard to see the problem when you can cut everything with a decent brush cutter (forget any form of strimmer line on brambles). If you keep cutting they don't come back. I've 200 yards of river bank by my house that proves that. After about 3 years of cutting twice a year the brambles were gone, the bank is now all bluebells.

And that is pretty much what I was asking. You have done it so you know, the solution is obvious to you. I haven't and am asking. Or, have asked, I was offered the information about the brush cutter in the first few answers, and I accepted the information with thanks. Why are you trying to turn the conversation round into some sort of inquiry?

my3cents

looksee wrote: »

And that is pretty much what I was asking. You have done it so you know, the solution is obvious to you. I haven't and am asking. Or, have asked, I was offered the information about the brush cutter in the first few answers, and I accepted the information with thanks. Why are you trying to turn the conversation round into some sort of inquiry?

Because it makes you think what you are doing and why.

You go from problems with acres of woodland to having concerns with a brush cutter about "using it on stuff growing parallel to the ground" and making that into a two person job with "one lifting brambles and gathering them out of the way".

On the scale you are talking about that is a minor problem if its a problem at all. A bit like having a massive canvas to paint on and only painting on a postage stamp sized part of it.

If you want to get rid of brambles in a woodland which for the sake of the woodland isn't necessary at all then you really need to focus on getting the most effective work done in the time you have. If you leave every bramble that runs parallel to the ground and get all the rest then that's a good job done.

Boardnashea

Goats and pigs might be fine for a short visit but will start stripping bark fairly quickly so won't be any help if that happens. As mentioned above a few regular visits with a mechanical cutter should get them under control.

wayoutwest

I was cutting some access trails though brambles on my birch woodland, and came accross a well hidden foxes den. Didn't want to disturb them, so blocked the paths with a pile of branch cuttings and re-routed the path around it. Only the other day, I was chopping up a pile of hawthorn 'sideings' that had been left for three years and were covered in brambles - unfortunately I destroyed two blackbird nests (complete with eggs) in the process, which saddened me as I particularly like these birds. Nesting time is not a good time for hedgecutting and removing groundcover.
I would be inclined to start off treading lightly by establishing some access trails across the 5 acres so you can see what you've got, even if you eventually want to clear the wood of bramble and make totally accessable later on .You might even decide to leave some patches of brambles here and there to give depth to a woodland walk and definition of the pathway.
Here are a few words about brambles from woodlands.co.uk website that might be of interest to you:

"The bramble is a source of food for many species of insect and mite, with some species feeding exclusively on bramble. The bramble is also important to doormice, which eat its flowers and fruit - they and other animals/birds seek refuge in bramble thickets. The leaves represent a food souce to deer, whose browsing may affect the development of a bramble thicket. High numbers of deer can result in a reduction in the amount of brambles and consequently, the amount of wildlife in a given area.
Large amounts of bramble can effect the microclimate of the ground/herb layer, influencing the growth and development of other plants. On one hand, it can offer protection from grazing/browsing to young tree seedlings but equally it can suppress the development of light loving species."

Best of luck with your exciting project Looksee.

80sDiesel

Have you being able to identity the tree? If not, post some photos?

Markcheese

Brambles don't do traffic.... If they're squished down regularly they won't choke everything... But getting rid of the maybe harder... Depending on the ground it may be possible go through with a quad and a roller on the back (or front)... Or even a rotator ( set high) / or mini self propelled flail mower... Going through once a year would stop them smothering... Twice would allow the grass smother the brambles..

Floody Boreland

One of these might work...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br1ZPJ8oQxY

ford2600

Floody Boreland wrote: »

One of these might work...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br1ZPJ8oQxY

Can't see that going wrong in a forest..

Floody Boreland

ford2600 wrote: »

Can't see that going wrong in a forest..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5HNHUGCFZw

Taltos

Big seller in California last year....

On a random note, any colleges or similar near you? They might entertain a project for weed control using various methods if they map out the woodland and try a variety of different ways of encouraging local flora and fauna.

80sDiesel

Floody Boreland wrote: »

One of these might work...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br1ZPJ8oQxY

Will be getting something similar when I will be creating a stale seed bed for my wildflower meadow.

my3cents

Floody Boreland wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5HNHUGCFZw

Fairly useless but great for getting a bonfire going.

I've had three of them over the years and even had the wheeled carriage useful for burning off small weeds on gravel drives and paving and thats about it.

Tried them on brambles and a waste of time unless you have a massive old patch with a lot of dead brambles but then a couple of sheets of newspaper would also do the job.

Edit>That may be a bit harsh they do sort of work but its a lot of effort for the rewards gained and they are smelly.

my3cents

80sDiesel wrote: »

Will be getting something similar when I will be creating a stale seed bed for my wildflower meadow.

Just take off the topsoil and use it somewhere else in the garden, the one thing that wildflowers suffer from is good soil because along with it comes far too much competition.

The burning off is however very good for growing primulas think thats to do with the increase in potash from the burning.

80sDiesel

my3cents wrote: »

Just take off the topsoil and use it somewhere else in the garden, the one thing that wildflowers suffer from is good soil because along with it comes far too much competition.

The burning off is however very good for growing primulas think thats to do with the increase in potash from the burning.

Yep I intend to take off the top soil and leave for 2 years to get a stale seed bed. But I was going to burn then any weeds which will pop up during those years.

forestnewbeee

Sorry for the late post. How are you getting on removing them? I have been battling brambles for 3 years now with a machete, fork & weedy. I have 27 acres so have just stuck to the paths for now. After cutting down with machete I cleared the ground and dug up the roots with a fork. In the more wild areas they were cut back with a machine then the same process with the fork. It has been time consuming but the brambles have not grown back in the path after 3 years. You could get your self some wooffers or volunteers to give you a hand also. When we bought our place the bramble were up to my head (5'2). It takes time and patience but you will clear them im looking at getting goats this year to clear some of the other areas.

Blackcurrants

Hi OP,
How about a "goat on a rope"? Tied to a stake in the ground and moved periodically to remove the worst of the brambles. Trouble is they will eat everything inc your sycamore seedlings which are probably your best bet to control the brambles. If you go down the grant aid route you should bare in mind that you may have to control/remove all non-native species which can be expensive even with the grant. I have found that a chainsaw is excellent (if a bit tough on the back ) to remove the worst of the large brambles as you can use it for most cutting angles with ease and is very accurate. If you have a bramble problem you should consider controlling the amount of light getting to the woodland floor. Forestry is a slow old business and you can get yourself and the wood into bother if you try and rush anything too much with the use of chemicals or big machines. Having said that the most effective way we've found to manage our extensive bramble problems is to tickle the soil surface with a mini-digger and remove the brambles into heaps. Mark the small trees you want to keep or areas where there is lots of saplings and work that area by hand as the damage you can do with a machine can be extensive (i'd use a slasher for this ). We tend to only do with when we want to get some planting done within the wood or encourage regeneration in an area with enough light (we try to get the wood to self seed if there is a chance of success). Choose your battles because 9/10 the brambles are going to win, perhaps concentrate on maintaining access and controlling the light, which will eventually suppress the brambles. Hazel is also great for managing brambles and is gorgeous in a wood and encourages lost of wildlife.
Best of luck!
BC

NABLOSE

Pigs do a great Job, they even give rushes a hard life, goats brilliant as well, you will need fencing.

looksee

Thanks for all the replies. I am not much further forward with the brambles as too many other things have intervened, including moving house. I am looking at one of these https://www.agrieuro.co.uk/brush-cutters-strimmers/wheeled-strimmers-trimmer-mowers-c-3_285.html though there only seems to be the one company supplying them and all their reviews are in other languages. Has anyone had any experience of them? (the standard carried brush strimmer would be too heavy for the people doing most of the work).

timfromtang

looksee wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I am not much further forward with the brambles as too many other things have intervened, including moving house. I am looking at one of these https://www.agrieuro.co.uk/brush-cutters-strimmers/wheeled-strimmers-trimmer-mowers-c-3_285.html though there only seems to be the one company supplying them and all their reviews are in other languages. Has anyone had any experience of them? (the standard carried brush strimmer would be too heavy for the people doing most of the work).

@looksee,
An Idea comes to mind concerning your brambles on paths at least.



Perhaps recruit some folk to help in a mutually beneficial way?


For example, Would some folk from a local riding club like a forest path network on which to ride their horses for recreation? If so perhaps they'd agree to help with establishing and maintaining the paths in return for the rights of access and use?
it'd perhaps be nicer than a noisy expensive petrol tool?
you'd have some folk who also have an interest in keeping the forest looking nice to help you?


tim

looksee

Nice idea tim, except that one of the issues at the moment is that paths that are shown on maps from the 1830s were totally destroyed last winter by horses (local info is a local hunt) and its going to be a major job remaking some of them as they are not really all that machinery accessible. Its not really the paths that are the problem, its wide expanses of low brambles between the trees. I will try and put up a pic, but really it would just be 'brambles yesterday'

my3cents

looksee wrote: »

Nice idea tim, except that one of the issues at the moment is that paths that are shown on maps from the 1830s were totally destroyed last winter by horses (local info is a local hunt) and its going to be a major job remaking some of them as they are not really all that machinery accessible. Its not really the paths that are the problem, its wide expanses of low brambles between the trees. I will try and put up a pic, but really it would just be 'brambles yesterday'

Can you get a farmer with a roller just to drive along the paths. Only saying that as we used to have to get our drive rolled if the hunt came past the big sign saying HUNT NOT ALLOWED BEYOND THIS POINT. The problem was the verges and center became all kicked up and you couldn't get a mower over them.

So what’s your thoughts on pigs?

Fence off area. Get farmer with pigs to deliver said pigs_ job done.