Downshifting Gears in Car

dyerario8

Hi guys

I just have a question about slowing down/ downshifting gears in a car. I'm close to my test date and I'm just a bit unsure

Say you're driving in 5th gear and there is a corner in the distance that you need to turn. I understand that for the driving test in Ireland they would like to see you turn corner in 2nd gear.

Is it allowed for you to change down from 5th to 2nd gear in one go (e.g. break until you slow down a bit and keep foot in on clutch while you change from 5-4-3-2)? Is this the correct way to do it in a test or is there another method? In my head it does not make sense to keep taking foot off the clutch after each gear change because that would mean you would put foot back on gas...this will maintain your speed rather than slowing down?

Please let me know what is correct method for the test!

TheBoyConor

If you are in a situation where you need to go 5-2, going 5-4-3-2 with the clutch continuously pressed in makes no sense and is ultimately pointless. You'd be better going 5-2 straight as you have your hand off the wheel for less time.

But I'd question whether going to 2nd gear from fifth is sensible at all. If you are going fast enough to be in 5th then you'd probably be too fast for 2nd.

At the end of the day you should be in whatever gear is appropriate to the speed, incline and acceleration you are going at - as opposed to rigid "rules" like 2nd for a corner, 3rd for a roundabout etc.

Doctors room ghost

No you can’t go from fifth to second in your test.its bad practice. If you see a turn coming up that may need second gear you should go down through the gears and use engine breaking properly and on time. If you go fifth to second it shows you were unprepared and it’s bad practice. If the car isn’t slowed down enough to engage second your going to rev the boll1x off it too and in poor conditions could lead to an accident.its lazy driving.
Do things right the first time.best of luck in your test

dastardly00

dyerario8 wrote: »

Hi guys

I just have a question about slowing down/ downshifting gears in a car. I'm close to my test date and I'm just a bit unsure

Say you're driving in 5th gear and there is a corner in the distance that you need to turn. I understand that for the driving test in Ireland they would like to see you turn corner in 2nd gear.

Is it allowed for you to change down from 5th to 2nd gear in one go (e.g. break until you slow down a bit and keep foot in on clutch while you change from 5-4-3-2)? Is this the correct way to do it in a test or is there another method? In my head it does not make sense to keep taking foot off the clutch after each gear change because that would mean you would put foot back on gas...this will maintain your speed rather than slowing down?

Please let me know what is correct method for the test!

Surely the gear required depends on the severity of the corner
A defined rule of '2nd gear' for every corner makes no sense.

Going straight from 5th to 2nd gear is bad practice.

Assuming I was in 5th gear and there was an upcoming corner that I estimated would require 2nd gear (assuming no traffic)...
I would go from 5th to 4th, then to 3rd, then to 2nd, whilst releasing the clutch and putting my left hand back on the steering wheel after each gear change.

rizzee

dastardly00 wrote: »

I would go from 5th to 4th, then to 3rd, then to 2nd, whilst releasing the clutch and putting my left hand back on the steering wheel after each gear change.

This is what I was thought, approx 8 years ago now and I still remember the instructor saying it.

Practice, practice, practice. Good luck

Del2005

dastardly00 wrote: »

Surely the gear required depends on the severity of the corner
A defined rule of '2nd gear' for every corner makes no sense.

Going straight from 5th to 2nd gear is bad practice.

Assuming I was in 5th gear and there was an upcoming corner that I estimated would require 2nd gear (assuming no traffic)...
I would go from 5th to 4th, then to 3rd, then to 2nd, whilst releasing the clutch and putting my left hand back on the steering wheel after each gear change.

There's nothing wrong with block changing once you don't labour the engine. Drop from 5th to 4th and then block to 2nd. Taking you hand's off the wheel is dangerous so avoid if possible.

cantdecide

dastardly00 wrote: »

A defined rule of '2nd gear' for every corner makes no sense.

Maybe the implication is 2nd or higher. while underway - only using first to move off?

hasdanta

I was told by my tester that the biggest jump you can do in gears is by two, so I would typically go from 5 > 3 > 2 but it is better practice to gradually slow down and go down through the gears.

endacl

Down to second, quick flip of the steering wheel in the opposite direction to the turn, hard back the other way, and floor it. If you really want to impress, lift the handbrake as well.

Don't forget to turn your head to look at the tester, and shout 'yahoo' at him/her for bonus marks.

Alanstrainor

I would think that changing from 5th to 2nd would be looked down on, and might result in a fault for gears. I would agree with what others have said and say that you should shift from 5th->4th and then to 2nd. That being said, in a non-test scenario I would block change from 5th to 2nd without question. 

All this being said, is there a particular road you have in mind OP? It all depends on the centre and route, but if it is more urban/suburban then there might not be a need to use 5th at all. And I would also echo what others have said with regard to 2nd gear and corners. It is not a hard and fast rule, there are some corners that may not need 2nd at all, it all depends really. The mantra is to use the correct gear for the situation you find yourself in. Some turns are so tight you might use 1st, others could be longer and be fine in 3rd.

BarleySweets

Everyone saying downshifting from 5-2 is bad practice is wrong. Ask your driving instructor.

Modern gearboxes are built to shift between any gear at will, only older gearboxes from times past needed to be shifted sequentially. Standard instructions for the past decade at least has been to simply select the correct gear for the speed at which you intend to drive. So if you’re driving at 60 in 5th then need to take a sharp turn in 2nd, continue at 60 until a safe braking distance, slow down (without pressing the clutch obv), then shift to second and drive around the turn. Anything else is potentially creating extra wear on your gearbox and potentially slowing down traffic on the main road. Doing anything else in your test will likely earn you at least a 2nd depending on the mood your tester is in.

Brian?

dyerario8 wrote: »

Hi guys

I just have a question about slowing down/ downshifting gears in a car. I'm close to my test date and I'm just a bit unsure

Say you're driving in 5th gear and there is a corner in the distance that you need to turn. I understand that for the driving test in Ireland they would like to see you turn corner in 2nd gear.

Is it allowed for you to change down from 5th to 2nd gear in one go (e.g. break until you slow down a bit and keep foot in on clutch while you change from 5-4-3-2)? Is this the correct way to do it in a test or is there another method? In my head it does not make sense to keep taking foot off the clutch after each gear change because that would mean you would put foot back on gas...this will maintain your speed rather than slowing down?

Please let me know what is correct method for the test!

Answering the bold part. You don’t go back on the gas after you shift down. Therefore the engine slows you down.

It’s really this simple:

Shift from 5th to 4th. Do not touch accelerator. Car slows down. Shift from 4th to 3rd. Do not touch the accelerator. Car slows down more.

At this point you can assess if you need to shift down again. Depends on the turn, but a 90 off the route your on is probably best done in 2nd.

I get the impression you only use the brakes to slow your car down. This is poor practice. When driving a manual I use engine braking far more than the brakes. Example: doing 80km on straight, need to slow down for a gentle corner, drop to 4th, don’t touch brakes, accelerate out and back I 5th. You should always be in the right gear and this means using a combination of your gears and your brakes to slow you down. It’s absolutely not ok to stick in the clutch and brake to a stop, or throw it in to 2nd.

I’d also question how often you’d be in 5th during your test. I doubt I ever used 5th on mine around Finglas/Glasnevin. Some people are in an awful rush to get into 5th. It’s very bad for your engine.

Hope that helps.

suchafunkymonke

Brian? wrote: »

...

I get the impression you only use the brakes to slow your car down. This is poor practice. When driving a manual I use engine braking far more than the brakes. Example: doing 80km on straight, need to slow down for a gentle corner, drop to 4th, don’t touch brakes, accelerate out and back I 5th. ...

Hope that helps.

On the contrary, using just engine braking is bad practice. When you push the brake pedal, the brake lights are illuminated telling drivers behind that you are slowing. If you don't use the brake pedal at all, this doesn't happen and you are relying on the other driver's perception of you speed which is dangerous and the whole reason vehicles have brake lights. You can make use of engine braking but include a touch of the brakes.

Block changing gears is not a bad thing. A car's gearbox is not sequential so you are not required to go through every gear.

To the OP's original point, it is more about the appropriate gear for the speed you are doing without keeping the clutch down. The examiner is more concerned in observing that you have control over the vehicle at all times, seeing that you select the correct gear when needed and ahead of maneuvers.

cruizer101

Brian? wrote: »

I get the impression you only use the brakes to slow your car down. This is poor practice. When driving a manual I use engine braking far more than the brakes.

This is bad practice it comes from the time when a cars brakes weren't always sufficient to stop a car.
Also brake pads are made to be a service part clutch and gears not so much.
Brakes are a safer and better way to slow down. (There is a bit of an exception for snowy/icy weather)

Here is a bit of a document from Institute of Advanced Motorists which goes into bit more detail
http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/IAM.pdf

dyerario8

Brian? wrote: »

Answering the bold part. You don’t go back on the gas after you shift down. Therefore the engine slows you down.

It’s really this simple:

Shift from 5th to 4th. Do not touch accelerator. Car slows down. Shift from 4th to 3rd. Do not touch the accelerator. Car slows down more.

At this point you can assess if you need to shift down again. Depends on the turn, but a 90 off the route your on is probably best done in 2nd.

I get the impression you only use the brakes to slow your car down. This is poor practice. When driving a manual I use engine braking far more than the brakes. Example: doing 80km on straight, need to slow down for a gentle corner, drop to 4th, don’t touch brakes, accelerate out and back I 5th. You should always be in the right gear and this means using a combination of your gears and your brakes to slow you down. It’s absolutely not ok to stick in the clutch and brake to a stop, or throw it in to 2nd.

I’d also question how often you’d be in 5th during your test. I doubt I ever used 5th on mine around Finglas/Glasnevin. Some people are in an awful rush to get into 5th. It’s very bad for your engine.

Hope that helps.

Thank you for your help. I’m aware that it is best to change down gears but I guess my main question is whether not you keep your foot on clutch while doing what you suggested ie shift from 5th to 4th etc.

And yes I suppose I would never really get up to 5th in the test, it’s just changing down the gears in general. Many people I know have been failed for coasting or keeping foot on clutch for too long so I guess I am just paranoid!

Doctors room ghost

dyerario8 wrote: »

Thank you for your help. I’m aware that it is best to change down gears but I guess my main question is whether not you keep your foot on clutch while doing what you suggested ie shift from 5th to 4th etc.

And yes I suppose I would never really get up to 5th in the test, it’s just changing down the gears in general. Many people I know have been failed for coasting or keeping foot on clutch for too long so I guess I am just paranoid!

If you go down through the gears properly they can’t fault you for coasting or keeping the clutch pressed.it only takes seconds and the engine braking will help to slow the car in a more controlled manner along with the use of the brakes.
If you go from fifth to second in the test and the car is traveling fast it’s going to rev out to 5000 rpm and that won’t look good

BeardySi

dyerario8 wrote: »

Thank you for your help. I’m aware that it is best to change down gears but I guess my main question is whether not you keep your foot on clutch while doing what you suggested ie shift from 5th to 4th etc.

No.

Keeping the clutch in while shifting sequentially from 5 down to 2 just means you're taking longer to downshift while you faff about with the gearstick. The engine is disengaged from the drive train while the clutch is in so there is no effect from moving the gearstick into 4 and 3 and back out again.

Either decelerate down through the gears, shifting and clutching back out for each change or brake and block shift (though I generally wouldn't skip 3 gears). If you do either properly I believe you should be fine (though I did my test in NI so don't quote me on that! )


That said, I can't envision a test scenario where you'd be taking a hard turn off a road where you'd be likely to be driving in 5th...

cantdecide

The way I always describe this is to remember that primarily there should be one gentle but consistent brake pedal pressure.

Press and hold the brake at a consistent pressure so as you should not have to heavily increase or decrease braking pedal pressure (ideally) until you finally are down to speed and ready to continue (eg around a slow bend or whatever)

So firstly you begin your consistent braking, then you're going to do the following starting from 5th;

Apply Brake (ideally do not vary braking pressure again);

clutch in > shift down to 4th > clutch out - pause as revs drop

clutch in > shift down to 3rd > clutch out - pause as revs drop

clutch in > shift down to 2nd > clutch out

Release brake, move over to the throttle again and continue on your way.

I think the best way to practice this is to try it off road where you're not trying to match the maneuver to a physical point such as a bend - just do it all on the straight. Work your way up the gears and then work them down again on the straights. With experience you get better at gauging brake pressure against physical reference points over time to avoid under or over braking - this is where the skill is.

Personally, I'd only very occasionally block shift.

dyerario8

cantdecide wrote: »

The way I always describe this is to remember that primarily there should be one gentle but consistent braking motion.

Press and hold the brake at a consistent pressure so as you should not have to heavily increase or decrease braking pedal pressure (ideally) until you finally are down to speed and ready to continue (eg around a slow bend or whatever)

So firstly you begin your consistent braking, then you're going to do the following starting from 5th;

Apply Brake (ideally do not vary braking pressure again);

clutch in > shift down to 4th > clutch out - pause as revs drop

clutch in > shift down to 3rd > clutch out - pause as revs drop

clutch in > shift down to 2nd > clutch out

Release brake, move over to the throttle again and continue on your way.

I think the best way to practice this is to try it off road where you're not trying to match the maneuver to a physical point such as a bend - just do it all on the straight. Work your way up the gears and then work them down again on the straights.

Personally, I'd only very occasionally block shift.

Thank you, this was very helpful. I was under the impression that if I was to remove my foot from the clutch, and not press the accelerator, the car would stall. I will definitely try this method. Thank you again

BeardySi

dyerario8 wrote: »

Thank you, this was very helpful. I was under the impression that if I was to remove my foot from the clutch, and not press the accelerator, the car would stall. I will definitely try this method. Thank you again

Nope, generally not once you're moving - especially not if you're in a suitable gear for your speed.

cantdecide

From a totally different point of view, one other thing that people often don't get is that if you're in, say 5th doing maybe 75km/h and you come to a gentle bend where you need to scrub off a little speed (but not so much you need to shift down to 4th), you can move your foot from the throttle to the brake and press it gently without pressing in the clutch at all (or shifting gears, obviously).

Just a clutch and gearless mild speed adjustment. Kind of a related habit that people often have.

LegallyAbroad

Driving instructor told me to block shift. When I put forward the view of most posters on this thread he said that anyone who has learned to drive in the past 20 years should know that cars have changed and that going down the gears no longer makes sense. To the extent that he had me going from 4th to 1st at some junctions.

Anyway, having failed my first test, block shifted for the second and passed. Block shifting actually makes driving so much easier.

BarleySweets

cantdecide wrote: »

The way I always describe this is to remember that primarily there should be one gentle but consistent brake pedal pressure.

Press and hold the brake at a consistent pressure so as you should not have to heavily increase or decrease braking pedal pressure (ideally) until you finally are down to speed and ready to continue (eg around a slow bend or whatever)

So firstly you begin your consistent braking, then you're going to do the following starting from 5th;

Apply Brake (ideally do not vary braking pressure again);

clutch in > shift down to 4th > clutch out - pause as revs drop

clutch in > shift down to 3rd > clutch out - pause as revs drop

clutch in > shift down to 2nd > clutch out

Release brake, move over to the throttle again and continue on your way.

I think the best way to practice this is to try it off road where you're not trying to match the maneuver to a physical point such as a bend - just do it all on the straight. Work your way up the gears and then work them down again on the straights. With experience you get better at gauging brake pressure against physical reference points over time to avoid under or over braking - this is where the skill is.

Personally, I'd only very occasionally block shift.

If you did that in a test in 2018 you’d fail. Block shifting is the modern way.

Heres Johnny

It's been a while since I did driving test and I've actually been driving automatics for last 10 years (passed test in a manual) but if the driving test is the same as when I did it would you even get into 5th gear?

My driving test was in a built up urban town and I was driving a 1.1 litre car at the time and I don't think it would have accepted 5th gear at the time no torque at all the car would have jumped and juddered if I tried 5th I'd day.

Is the test conducted entirely at speeds under 50kmph?

fritzelly

Years ago I used to go down the gears doing lessons, got a new instructor who told me if you need to be in a different gear go straight to the gear (going down that is)
Passed test first time

BarleySweets

Heres Johnny wrote: »

It's been a while since I did driving test and I've actually been driving automatics for last 10 years (passed test in a manual) but if the driving test is the same as when I did it would you even get into 5th gear?

My driving test was in a built up urban town and I was driving a 1.1 litre car at the time and I don't think it would have accepted 5th gear at the time no torque at all the car would have jumped and juddered if I tried 5th I'd day.

Is the test conducted entirely at speeds under 50kmph?

Yeah it’s a totally different game nowadays compared to what you’re describing you experienced.

All the posters here clearly mean well and are offering great, clear, instructions but by recommending that this guy/girl shift sequentially in a situation where block shifting is actually preferable, the learner is going to get faults in their test.

These days the B license tests are structured so that they cover everything a car driver will experience for the weather conditions during which the test is run, short of motorway driving & towing. So for speeds, they’re brought to roads where they can get up to between 50kmh and 100kmh so that the learner can show that they are confident at getting up to 5th suitably, can handle a car at speed in traffic, and can decelerate appropriately.

evolving_doors

fritzelly wrote: »

Years ago I used to go down the gears doing lessons, got a new instructor who told me if you need to be in a different gear go straight to the gear (going down that is)
Passed test first time

Why the heck would you 'need' to go straight from 5th to 2nd? It probably means yer going too fast.

Anticipate the corner earlier and slow down accordingly to meet it. Otherwise it's driving to fast then breaking hard to meet the corner... or using your gears as a break system!

HartsHat

Heres Johnny wrote: »

It's been a while since I did driving test and I've actually been driving automatics for last 10 years (passed test in a manual) but if the driving test is the same as when I did it would you even get into 5th gear?

My driving test was in a built up urban town and I was driving a 1.1 litre car at the time and I don't think it would have accepted 5th gear at the time no torque at all the car would have jumped and juddered if I tried 5th I'd day.

Is the test conducted entirely at speeds under 50kmph?

Did mine in Dublin, there's a 60km/h in at least one of the test centres, so you'd get in to 4th at least.

HartsHat

evolving_doors wrote: »

Why the heck would you 'need' to go straight from 5th to 2nd? It probably means yer going too fast.

Anticipate the corner earlier and slow down accordingly to meet it. Otherwise it's driving to fast then breaking hard to meet the corner... or using your gears as a break system!

Going from a 60kh zone to a set of red lights, makes sense to go 4 to 1, for example.

fritzelly

evolving_doors wrote: »

Why the heck would you 'need' to go straight from 5th to 2nd? It probably means yer going too fast.

Anticipate the corner earlier and slow down accordingly to meet it. Otherwise it's driving to fast then breaking hard to meet the corner... or using your gears as a break system!

Because you are slowing down, if you are not giving it gas why bother changing down a gear if you are not going to be using it? Once I'm down to the speed I want then you change to the appropriate gear
And that is how you should be taught and even just a cursory google shows driving schools recommending this.
Google "gears to go and brakes to slow"

Brian?

HartsHat wrote: »

Going from a 60kh zone to a set of red lights, makes sense to go 4 to 1, for example.

No it doesn’t. Not even a tiny bit. Why would you ever need to have a car in first gear to stop?

Block shifting makes no sense to me at all.