Boss calling solicitor over contract

NeonSquares

Long story short(as it is currently happening), my partner has handed in their notice as she is changing jobs.

Her boss is have a s*%t fit and is threatening to call her solicitor over it and to review my partners contract.

My partner is convinced she is out of contract.

I know I'm prob not giving enough info here but can she actually bring anything legal against my partner for handing in her notice?.

She gets paid by the week, my understanding was a weeks notice is enough?.

Any advise is welcome as my partner is in a bad state at work at the minute over this.

She's given 15 years to this 'boss' and this is how she's been treated for wanting out of a bad environment.

tiredblondie

It depends what her contract says....for mine, the notice (on both sides) is based on how long you work there so for me, over 10 years requires 2 months notice - i am paid every 2 weeks.

jimmycrackcorm

I presume your partner has misplaced the contract in 15 years otherwise it would state the length of notice.

In which case they should ask their boss to produce a copy to prove how much notice should be given. Otherwise the statutory notice if one week applies.

C3PO

She's giving one weeks notice after working there for 15 years?

Dial Hard

Unless she was on a fixed-term contract to begin with she can't be "out of contract". They don't just expire, you know.

Teyla Emmagan

You can't force someone to stay in a job if they don't want to. He can call his solicitor all he wants, all there is to discuss is her leaving date.

Wabbit Ears

After 15 years one weeks notice is really unfair.

They have to get someone in and she has to hand over her work to someone else. You can't do that in one week for a lot of positions.


So without knowing the job role involved on the surface I would say she is way more likley to be in the wrong here.

fearrchair

I am 20 years and l think for the last few years l would have to work 6 weeks after a notice. Some employers might take it from outstanding holidays. I suppose they want to train a new person in the position if that applies etc.

billybonkers

Notice period would be set out in the original contract, if no notice period is listed it goes to the legislation min 1 week

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/starting_work_and_changing_job/changing_job/giving_notice.html

Statutory minimum notice
If you do not have a provision in your contract of employment dealing with notice, the statutory minimum notice of one week will apply and this is the notice that you should give your employer of your intention to leave. The statutory minimum notice of one week, is set down in Section 6 of the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act 1973.

_Brian

Ask the employer for a copy of the contract. As above, go by what’s in the contract or the legal minimum.

Will your OH ever need a reference from this employer, leaving a job on bad terms after 15 years employment is very unfortunate.

beauf

Some of the places I've worked have had a 1-3 months notice in the contract.

Glass fused light

beauf wrote: »

Some of the places I've worked have had a 1-3 months notice in the contract.

She is paid weekly anything over 1 month is unlikely

beauf

Glass fused light wrote: »

She is paid weekly anything over 1 month is unlikely

I've never found the salary schedule to be linked to notice period. It's usually in the places I've worked more related to the role and how easy to get cover.

But maybe that's not the norm and what you suggest is.

Glass fused light

beauf wrote: »

I've never found the salary schedule to be linked to notice period. It's usually in the places I've worked more related to the role and how easy to get cover.

But maybe that's not the norm and what you suggest is.

Not wanting to sound too elitist but there was (and still is to a degree) a 'prestige' value in salaried ie monthly paid, being seen as a 'management' or 'professional' while weekly was more working class ie living pay packet to pay packet.
In my experience, back 15 years ago a months notice would have been pretty standard and you would find it very difficult to move into a new job if you were competing on 3 month notice. The idea of 3 months was very European, I remember being amazed at the concept that the Germans moved jobs at quarter end irrespective of when they gave notice.

(Edit could be I was just in the wrong job )

jimmycrackcorm

Wabbit Ears wrote:

After 15 years one weeks notice is really unfair.

They have to get someone in and she has to hand over her work to someone else. You can't do that in one week for a lot of positions.

That's a very naive view. I can tell you that the there are countless people who have lost jobs and gotten very little of anything after years of service. There's no such thing as employer loyalty

Ever heard of a place called clerys?

beauf

Rather than loyalty its more about professionalism. If you hire someone who dropped their previous employer with minimal notice, you can expect the same.

my3cents

beauf wrote: »

Rather than loyalty its more about professionalism. If you hire someone who dropped their previous employer with minimal notice, you can expect the same.

Really after working for a toxic employer for 15 years?

Or do you consider an employer who makes legal threats to stop someone leaving to be a great guy to work for?

Accidentally

my3cents wrote: »

Really after working for a toxic employer for 15 years?

Or do you consider an employer who makes legal threats to stop someone leaving to be a great guy to work for?

Employers tend to work on a no smoke without fire basis. It may not be fair, but that's the reality.

Much better to stay a few weeks more, even if the contract doesn't make you. It shows the new employer that you care about your work and responsibilities.

Above all, never go in to a new company and start talking about how bad the last place was, no matter how true it is. It will reflect badly on the previous employer, but also the employee.

beauf

my3cents wrote: »

Really after working for a toxic employer for 15 years?

Or do you consider an employer who makes legal threats to stop someone leaving to be a great guy to work for?

Its got nothing to do with the previous employer. ...

Teyla Emmagan

Accidentally wrote:

Much better to stay a few weeks more, even if the contract doesn't make you. It shows the new employer that you care about your work and responsibilities.

If the new employer wants you in the job quickly they won't give a sh#t about any of that.

bootser

It may not be explicitly stated in the contract, but instead say something like "adherence to the employee handbook" which in my case states 6 weeks notice over 10 years. I'm currently looking, only reason I've come across this!

Glass fused light

bootser wrote: »

It may not be explicitly stated in the contract, but instead say something like "adherence to the employee handbook" which in my case states 6 weeks notice over 10 years. I'm currently looking, only reason I've come across this!

Written statement of terms of employment.
3.—(1) An employer shall, not later than 2 months after the commencement of an employee’s employment with the employer, give or cause to be given to the employee a statement in writing containing the following particulars of the terms of the employee’s employment, that is to say—

That could be a bit of a problem for your employer if your were not sent the employee hand book as part of your original contract. Notice should form part of the written statement given within 2 months, and being available on the company website may not pass the 'given' test.

beauf

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

If the new employer wants you in the job quickly they won't give a sh#t about any of that.

Obviously some short sighted employers won't. But expect that mindset in all your dealings with them. Its a double edge sword.

Accidentally

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

If the new employer wants you in the job quickly they won't give a sh#t about any of that.

Some will, some won't.

I'd much rather attend an interview and explain that I only have to give one weeks notice, but I've given them three weeks, so that I don't leave them in a hole. It shows that you give a damn and its not just a job to you. It may also give you an edge over other candidates.

wonski

Glass fused light wrote: »

Not wanting to sound too elitist but there was (and still is to a degree) a 'prestige' value in salaried ie monthly paid, being seen as a 'management' or 'professional' while weekly was more working class ie living pay packet to pay packet.
In my experience, back 15 years ago a months notice would have been pretty standard and you would find it very difficult to move into a new job if you were competing on 3 month notice. The idea of 3 months was very European, I remember being amazed at the concept that the Germans moved jobs at quarter end irrespective of when they gave notice.

(Edit could be I was just in the wrong job )

Many factories and at least one supermarket chain I know pay monthly.

They often are not salaried employees, as their pay is based on hours worked and varies month to month.

It is no longer elite Unless you get the same amount every month.

The notice, however, has nothing to do with the pay frequency.

1 week after 15 years I would found as an insult tbh.

listermint

There isnt a court in the land that can prevent someone from Working. Everyone has a right to work. So the employer was talking out of their xxxx about the solicitor that would be a fruitless exercise not to mention a waste of money.

NeonSquares

Ok, so update;

Contract states a month.

The business is closing within the next few months, hence the leaving for gettInt a new job.

My partners boss(A woman) is not taking nor handling this well at all, my partner is giving two weeks notice(she is being paid by the week) and over the last two days is giving my partner verbal abuse in the form of sny comment and such.

She verbally 'scolded' her in front of her colleagues.

We're both convinced she is making an example because she is afraid of the rest jumping ship before the business winds down.

All our friends can't believe that she threatened(did actually call her solicitor it turned out) a legal pursuit but opinions are 50/50 on the length of notice given versus contract.

Thanks for the opinions here, they've helped.

my3cents

If the place is closing then as far as I'm concerned screw them and leave when it suits you.

Question: Why did you leave your last employment and only give a weeks notice?

Answer: They were closing down.

Does anymore need to be said?

kaymin

my3cents wrote: »

If the place is closing then as far as I'm concerned screw them and leave when it suits you.

Question: Why did you leave your last employment and only give a weeks notice?

Answer: They were closing down.

Does anymore need to be said?

They will often still want to speak with your former boss / supervisor so best to manage your way out as smoothly as possible.

Del2005

my3cents wrote: »

If the place is closing then as far as I'm concerned screw them and leave when it suits you.

Question: Why did you leave your last employment and only give a weeks notice?

Answer: They were closing down.

Does anymore need to be said?

Reference

Glass fused light

wonski wrote: »

Many factories and at least one supermarket chain I know pay monthly.

They often are not salaried employees, as their pay is based on hours worked and varies month to month.

It is no longer elite Unless you get the same amount every month.

I transitioned a number of places from weekly to monthly and it was a long payroll process, places mainly moved to monthly EFT when moving out of cash due to the security risk.

wonski wrote: »

1 week after 15 years I would found as an insult tbh.

1 week after 15 years suggests something has gone seriously with the relationship.

skallywag

Once you agree to a set notice period when taking on a position then from a professional standpoint it should most definitely be honoured if the employer requests it.

I know that there are frequent visitors to this forum who will tell you that references are worthless these days, but I for one, and many other peers in a similar position, will never hire someone without a strong reference (lessons learned from the past). Reneging on an agreed notice period is telling me that a potential empoyee cannot be trusted and is not true to their word.

You can also think of it from the opposite side, i.e. how would you feel if your employer was obliged to give you one months notice on terminating your contract, but told you that they were giving you just one week?

wonski

Glass fused light wrote: »

I transitioned a number of places from weekly to monthly and it was a long payroll process, places mainly moved to monthly EFT when moving out of cash due to the security risk.




1 week after 15 years suggests something has gone seriously with the relationship.

Agreed. I rarely change jobs, but when I do it always is a friendly atmosphere.

Can't believe that some people would bring a solicitor into it.

To the op, the only work reference your oh has is from this job. They can't give bad references, but they can say that enough notice was not given.

If the new job is certain, it doesn't matter, though.

The whole situation sounds bizarre tbh.

skallywag

wonski wrote: »

They can't give bad references, but they can say that enough notice was not given.

Going a little off topic here, but this is very much a myth. For sure you are not going to put down anything negative in writing, but most team managers I know will handle the reference topic over a short phone call. I have been called numerous times for a reference, where I will go out of my way to sing the praises of an ex employee if they deserve it (which to be honest is 90% of the cases). In the rare case though that I was not happy with an employee I will also very clearly make this known. You don't particulary need to say something negative to get this point accross either.

paulpd

If it's closing down does she not become entitled to redundancy if she hangs on a few more months? (Pretty substantial after 15 years service).

NeonSquares

NeonSquares wrote: »

Ok, so update;

Contract states a month........my partner is giving two weeks notice

I'm baffled as to why you would think the frequency of being paid has anything got ot do with the notice period.

wonski

skallywag wrote: »

Going a little off topic here, but this is very much a myth. For sure you are not going to put down anything negative in writing, but most team managers I know will handle the reference topic over a short phone call. I have been called numerous times for a reference, where I will go out of my way to sing the praises of an ex employee if they deserve it (which to be honest is 90% of the cases). In the rare case though that I was not happy with an employee I will also very clearly make this known. You don't particulary need to say something negative to get this point accross either.

Myth or not, most managers would give good references unless someone really messed up on regular basis.

Off topic, but the term small country came up here few times in here and I witnessed it many times. I only guess this depends on the industry you work in, but food, qa/qc business is small enough for your name to be recognised.

skallywag

wonski wrote: »

Myth or not, most managers would give good references unless someone really messed up on regular basis

Definitely agree with that. In general most managers I know would only tend negative when there was a serious attitide problem in play, and the person was a nightmare to work with.

Glass fused light

paulpd wrote: »

If it's closing down does she not become entitled to redundancy if she hangs on a few more months? (Pretty substantial after 15 years service).

2 weeks per year of service, but if the employer is not waving her cheque book, could be the employer is bust and they will have to rely on the Social fund for the payment (this won't be on the day you leave)

Even then in a big place you have to weigh the benefit of jumping early into a good job, rather than wait, go through the emotional wringer everyday, and then be competing against a large pool of ex-colleges with similar skillsets.

If the place is going bust and the boss is having a meltdown (she probably has personal guarantees against the business, and could be looking at loosing everything) every work day could be hell.

NeonSquares

Glass fused light wrote: »

2 weeks per year of service, but if the employer is not waving her cheque book, could be the employer is bust and they will have to rely on the Social fund for the payment (this won't be on the day you leave)

Even then in a big place you have to weigh the benefit of jumping early into a good job, rather than wait, go through the emotional wringer everyday, and then be competing against a large pool of ex-colleges with similar skillsets.

If the place is going bust and the boss is having a meltdown (she probably has personal guarantees against the business, and could be looking at loosing everything) every work day could be hell.

This is pretty much what we suspect, putting the length of notice given by my partner aside a minute, the way this boss has handled herself is disgraceful.

As my partner is jumping ship before it goes under, the boss is clearly afraid the rest will follow suit and what would make a final few weeks that would be hard probably even worse.

But I'm only looking out for my partner who was very upset at the way the boss handled herself and the situation, my partner was even willing to put in 3 weeks until the boss went off on one.

The whole solicitor threat is what took everyone aback.

beauf

The problem will be getting a reference. Is there HR there can give a generic reference without going through this manager.

beauf

wonski wrote: »

Myth or not, most managers would give good references unless someone really messed up on regular basis. ...

I dunno some managers get the hump when people leave. There's been a few threads here where people struggle to get references from managers they thought they had left on good terms with.

davo10

The only tangible consequence of not working your notice is the loss of a reference and the risk that the manager will pop up again in another company which may impact on your wife. No employer, particularly one with diminished finances is going to initiate legal proceedings, it's just an empty threat and the solicitor will tell her to cop on.

Having said that, one weeks notice is pretty poor form.

runawaybishop

wonski wrote: »

Myth or not, most managers would give good references unless someone really messed up on regular basis.

Off topic, but the term small country came up here few times in here and I witnessed it many times. I only guess this depends on the industry you work in, but food, qa/qc business is small enough for your name to be recognised.

It is a myth that a manager cannot give a bad reference. They cannot tell an untruth, but you absolutely can give a ****ty reference very easily.

E.g. Would you hire X again?
No.

Glass fused light

NeonSquares wrote: »

This is pretty much what we suspect, putting the length of notice given by my partner aside a minute, the way this boss has handled herself is disgraceful.

As my partner is jumping ship before it goes under, the boss is clearly afraid the rest will follow suit and what would make a final few weeks that would be hard probably even worse.

But I'm only looking out for my partner who was very upset at the way the boss handled herself and the situation, my partner was even willing to put in 3 weeks until the boss went off on one.

The whole solicitor threat is what took everyone aback.

How open has the boss been about what is going on?
The solicitor may be evidence of her desperation.

Unless there was a sudden change in the business her boss has probably known for months that the company was in trouble. It would be a process eg slowly realising the place has problems, jigging around to try fix it, pushing in saving and then borrowings, accepting its not improving, comming to the realisation that gone.

Her accountant would recommends a winding up process and pull in the solicitor for advice and probably the bank too. Winding the company down can be a juggling act. Cash inflows and outflows become key, where every morning the first calculation is whether or not the company is insolvent. If it is she has no option but to stop trading and lay everyone off that morning with no notice. She or the inhouse accountant may have already been doing the calcs for weeks. Now she has to redo the basis of the calc and the loss of your partner's role pushes it that bit nearer the knife edge (or over).

She probably has worse employment prospect than anyone else in the business. Employees have to explain how they took redundancy in their stride with no residue which will impact their new team. She has to convince an employer that transitioning from where she was the final authority to being managed wont be a problem plus the management failure werent her fault.

If your partner is in the position to work the 3 weeks, going in and and having a calm discussion offering to work the extra week once the boss adjust her behaviour may not be a bad thing. If nothing else it allows her to pull her boss up when she crosses the line. It may also get the company across the line to a break even position and her boss may be willing to fill in the paperwork for the redundancy.

wonski

I don't know a single person that didn't get a job because of bad references.

Is it a myth? I don't know, but most managers just let it go at the end.

References are usually checked at the end of the recruitment process, unless you really took a piss there is not a person I know that would make someone not getting a job to get back at them.

road_high

Funniest thing I've read in a while...he's going to call his solicitor and do what exactly? Force her stay and do a job against her will.
Little wonder your wife is leaving and more luck to her to get away from that idiot.

road_high

wonski wrote: »

I don't know a single person that didn't get a job because of bad references.

Is it a myth? I don't know, but most managers just let it go at the end.

References are usually checked at the end of the recruitment process, unless you really took a piss there is not a person I know that would make someone not getting a job to get back at them.

References aren't really worth the paper they're written on unless it's word of mouth through bosses knowing one another in a small industry or organization. Which you probably won't even know about to start with.

davo10

wonski wrote: »

I don't know a single person that didn't get a job because of bad references.

Is it a myth? I don't know, but most managers just let it go at the end.

References are usually checked at the end of the recruitment process, unless you really took a piss there is not a person I know that would make someone not getting a job to get back at them.

As an employer, I can assure you that you are wrong. As another poster said, a phone call can kill an applicant's chance. Employers are rightly wary of putting anything in writing, but a simple "would you employ this person again?" is a killer for someone who leaves on bad terms.

skallywag

davo10 wrote: »

... but a simple "would you employ this person again?" is a killer for someone who leaves on bad terms.

This is normally always the last question that I get asked myself when I'm called for a reference, and is also the last question I ask myself when looking for one. It's a simple yes/no answer, and doesn't leave one open to any type of blowback.

It genuinely amazes me that a lot of people seem to really think that employers never bother to check references.

wonski

davo10 wrote: »

As an employer, I can assure you that you are wrong. As another poster said, a phone call can kill an applicant's chance. Employers are rightly wary of putting anything in writing, but a simple "would you employ this person again?" is a killer for someone who leaves on bad terms.

On bad terms, yes.

All other situations yes would be normal.

We are running off topic here, but after 15 years of employment not getting good references would be difficult, unless you have done something criminal tbh.