Betting Transaction on Bank Statement

ChrisWeiland

I understand that mortgage lenders frown upon (and understably so) any form of betting activity on a potential customers bank statements.

6 months ago i placed a €50 deposit into an online bookmakers in order to place one single future political wager.

This is the one and only transaction of that nature on my account

Will this be a problem when seeking mortgage approval?

Captain Flaps

What kind of transaction, what kind of amount and how long ago? If it's not too recent you might be worth waiting until you're past the 6 month mark, banks generally only ask for statements stretching this far back. Generally yes they seem to take a VERY dim view even if you've been playing the lotto online, but if it's a small amount as a once off you might be ok.

ChrisWeiland

6 months ago i placed a €50 deposit into an online bookmakers in order to place one single future political wager

DubJJ

Captain Flaps wrote: »

What kind of transaction, what kind of amount and how long ago? If it's not too recent you might be worth waiting until you're past the 6 month mark, banks generally only ask for statements stretching this far back. Generally yes they seem to take a VERY dim view even if you've been playing the lotto online, but if it's a small amount as a once off you might be ok.

Talk about scaremongering, of course they'll be ok, it was a one off transaction for a small amount several months ago.
Also the bank don't care if you're playing the lotto as long as it's small amounts and you're not acting like aa addict.

Captain Flaps

DubJJ wrote: »

Talk about scaremongering, of course they'll be ok, it was a one off transaction for a small amount several months ago.
Also the bank don't care if you're playing the lotto as long as it's small amounts and you're not acting like aa addict.

Everything I've been told by my broker, people I know in the industry and a couple of friends who went through the process suggests otherwise.

Anyway, it was 6 months ago. OP, just wait for your next statement and don't worry.

Grumpypants

Just wait a few weeks and it will be 7 months ago and they won't see it.

But yeah any sign of an online betting account can scupper you unless they really want your business.

Dumb really as you could take out 50 euro and walk into a bookies.

ChrisWeiland

Grumpypants wrote: »

Dumb really as you could take out 50 euro and walk into a bookies.

I agree

Browney7

ChrisWeiland wrote: »

I agree

If it's a bookie on a high street yes but if the price was significantly better with an online only bookie you'd be foolish not to take it (OT over)

Ursus Horribilis

A once off transaction probably won't be an issue. It's spending patterns they're looking at.

theronca

Hate to read this kind of story as an expat thinking of coming home.  The kind of nosy-parker paternalism that makes me want to run a mile....

Samuel T. Cogley

theronca wrote: »

Hate to read this kind of story as an expat thinking of coming home.  The kind of nosy-parker paternalism that makes me want to run a mile....

Did a massive recession fuelled by irresponsible lending not make you run several miles in the first place?

theronca

No.  I left long before that.  Plenty of irresponsible lending here in CA too, but the recovery doesn't  included line-item reviews of people's banking statements.
Reminds me of the 5 star Dublin hotel I had to cancel last month with a clear 24 hour cancellation policy.  And yet upon cancelling, I couldn't just cancel.  I needed to give the "reason why" I was cancelling and have my reason "reviewed" before the cancellation as approved..  More nosy-parker paternalism.
Anyway, don't want to hijack ChrisWeiland's thread any further.

Samuel T. Cogley

theronca wrote: »

No.  I left long before that.  Plenty of irresponsible lending here in CA too, but the recovery doesn't  included line-item reviews of people's banking statements.
Reminds me of the 5 star Dublin hotel I had to cancel last month with a clear 24 hour cancellation policy.  And yet upon cancelling, I couldn't just cancel.  I needed to give the "reason why" I was cancelling and have my reason "reviewed" before the cancellation as approved..  More nosy-parker paternalism.
Anyway, don't want to hijack ChrisWeiland's thread any further.

Thinly veiled I stay in nice Hotels post :pac:

Quite right, no more messing from me either.

theronca

Well, take it that way if you want.  
I said "5 star" simply to indicate that one would expect more professionalism from a "nice" hotel when it came to following their own policies.   I've never had that happen at any other 5 star I've stayed anywhere else in the world (take that how you want, too.)

What Username Guidelines

Anecdotal, but I had been playing the lotto at €22 a week (syndicate amongst friends at €2 a pop) for about a year, just due to the convenience of playing online. Didn’t think much of it but when I went to change banks I did worry a little as it’s pretty much the same as a new mortgage application. Nothing was said about it at all, even at that amount and frequency. I’m sure plenty of people throw €20/€50 into an online bookies account around big sporting events.

EdgeCase

Unless someone's gambling to a level that they're putting their payment ability at risk, that is incredibly intrusive.

Do the banks make it clear that they are processing this data to make judgements on the type of spending that someone is doing?

The GDPR legislation will certainly make organisations need to be a lot more transparent about what data they're processing and why.

Captain Flaps

EdgeCase wrote: »

Do the banks make it clear that they are processing this data to make judgements on the type of spending that someone is doing?

The GDPR legislation will certainly make organisations need to be a lot more transparent about what data they're processing and why.

I don't think you understand what GDPR is mate. You're asking for a loan and consenting for the banks to look at your financial history, of course they're within their rights to refuse you for any reason - they're not transmitting that info or storing it somewhere else.

I was refused a loan about 8 years ago and it was explained very transparently why I'd not been approved and what I could do to get myself into a position where I would be.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Captain Flaps wrote: »

Everything I've been told by my broker, people I know in the industry and a couple of friends who went through the process suggests otherwise.

Anyway, it was 6 months ago. OP, just wait for your next statement and don't worry.

I’m sure I had online lotto statements all over my statements and that was 3 years ago.

witchgirl26

OP as others said if it's a once off transaction and a history not showing repeated, they might question it but I don't think it'll cause a major issue. Also the idea of just waiting a few weeks so it drops off the 6 month history isn't a bad one.

I had transactions for the lotto on my statements and the most that was asked about them was if I played frequently or not. When I said that I topped up once every 4-5 months and usually for a specific draw, there was no further comments and no issues.

Asus X540L

I play a lot of online poker and I'm well up overall but statement would have a lot of deposits but more withdrawals from pokerstars.

Would they even do the maths here see I'm a winner or do they just see the pokerstars and throw your application in the bin?

Doubt you'd have much reception from them trying to explain poker isn't really gambling either

ANXIOUS

Asus X540L wrote: »

I play a lot of online poker and I'm well up overall but statement would have a lot of deposits but more withdrawals from pokerstars.

Would they even do the maths here see I'm a winner or do they just see the pokerstars and throw your application in the bin?

Doubt you'd have much reception from them trying to explain poker isn't really gambling either

Would you not set up a revoult account for the likes of this?

witchgirl26

Asus X540L wrote: »

I play a lot of online poker and I'm well up overall but statement would have a lot of deposits but more withdrawals from pokerstars.

Would they even do the maths here see I'm a winner or do they just see the pokerstars and throw your application in the bin?

Doubt you'd have much reception from them trying to explain poker isn't really gambling either

I don't think they'd do the maths but they might listen to an explanation. That said poker is gambling and to them the risk is that, while you're winning now, that might not always be the case and it puts your ability to pay the loan back in jeopardy.

EdgeCase

Captain Flaps wrote: »

I don't think you understand what GDPR is mate. You're asking for a loan and consenting for the banks to look at your financial history, of course they're within their rights to refuse you for any reason - they're not transmitting that info or storing it somewhere else.

I was refused a loan about 8 years ago and it was explained very transparently why I'd not been approved and what I could do to get myself into a position where I would be.

Neither do you "mate".

It has serious implications for any organisation gathering information for one purpose, in this case managing your account then using it for another, in this case using metadata about who transactions were with to assess spending patterns.

All I'm saying is it could get interesting when it's fully implemented as they would need to seek specific consent to do this while you're applying and make it clear how and why they will be using that data.

For example, accessing and using someone's in-house transaction history without explicit consent isn't legal under the GDPR.

keane2097

Mentioned elsewhere also, had well in excess of six figures through my AIB accounts in and out of various sports betting sites in the year or two prior to applying for mortgage and wasn't even asked about it. We are due to draw down in the next couple of weeks.

The bet on the Grand National preventing an otherwise in order application from being accepted just has to be nonsense, it's not credible.

EdgeCase

They shouldn't really need to know more than your income is stable and that you have enough disposable income to cover the mortgage payments.

There have been a few articles in papers suggesting that it's the bank auditing the intimate details of every transaction.

It would also be hugely intrusive and potentially quite embarrassing these days as the history on your bank account can reveal a lot. For example, it's not unusual to pay medical consultants by card and all you have to do is Google the name and you know what speciality they are and could make all sorts of assumptions about someone's health.

Your current account and credit card can reveal a hell of a lot about you. They're probably as or more significant a trail of metadata than your phone records or Facebook history, particularly if you're someone who pays everything by tapping your card / phone.

There's a lot more data being captured the more we use cards. Even when cheques were common the data about who they were paid to wasn't easy to see and if you go back even a couple of decades ago, the majority of small transactions were cash. So most accounts didn't really reveal that you had a major coffee habit, or spent a few quid at the bookies or pub.

That's where the GDPR becomes relevant.

El Weirdo

As an aside, when a friend of mine was applying for his mortgage, he was questioned on a small monthly subscription/donation to the Irish Communist Party. He explained that he'd set it up years previously when he was younger and had basically forgotten about it, and asked if it would affect his application.

The bank manager replied, "No. But I wouldn't book a holiday to America for a while".

Earleybird

Asus X540L wrote: »

I play a lot of online poker and I'm well up overall but statement would have a lot of deposits but more withdrawals from pokerstars.

Would they even do the maths here see I'm a winner or do they just see the pokerstars and throw your application in the bin?

Doubt you'd have much reception from them trying to explain poker isn't really gambling either

Made the same point to a bank many years ago who were concerned about the volume of transactions with an online betting company. "But look at all the withdrawals" I responded. The meeting ended briskly. It's behavioural patterns they're looking to identify. The odd bet here and there won't impact an application.

Captain Flaps

EdgeCase wrote: »

Neither do you "mate".

It has serious implications for any organisation gathering information for one purpose, in this case managing your account then using it for another, in this case using metadata about who transactions were with to assess spending patterns.

All I'm saying is it could get interesting when it's fully implemented as they would need to seek specific consent to do this while you're applying and make it clear how and why they will be using that data.

For example, accessing and using someone's in-house transaction history without explicit consent isn't legal under the GDPR.

If you're applying for a mortgage you submit 6 months bank statements to be assessed, they're not 'accessing without explicit consent' - they're asking for it and you're handing it to them. You could (and probably will) be dealing with a different bank to your usual one, they can't access anything of yours without your consent.

Now, if you'd expressed worry about how the documents you send over are stored and how long they're retained for then yes, I'd agree with you. What you're complaining about is nonsense though.

witchgirl26

EdgeCase wrote: »

Neither do you "mate".

It has serious implications for any organisation gathering information for one purpose, in this case managing your account then using it for another, in this case using metadata about who transactions were with to assess spending patterns.

All I'm saying is it could get interesting when it's fully implemented as they would need to seek specific consent to do this while you're applying and make it clear how and why they will be using that data.

For example, accessing and using someone's in-house transaction history without explicit consent isn't legal under the GDPR.

If you're applying for a loan or mortgage with a bank that already holds your accounts, they will have to ask for consent to look at those accounts as part of your application. You agreeing to that counts as consent under GDPR and they will be allowed to look through those for the purposes of assessing you for a loan.

If it's a bank other than your normal one, the request for you to send the statements and the sending of same, can be considered consent also for the purposes of them assessing those statements as part of your application.

The banks have to be allowed to assess the data given otherwise they won't be able to determine the risk profile of the individual for a loan/mortgage. For example - I get a good wage but I'm terrible at saving it or I end up in overdraft every month because I like to shop. The bank has to be able to take that into consideration.

They will run metrics on the data to determine your viability but under GDPR they will have to tell you that they are doing this along with where the data is stored and whether there is anything else they will use it for.

Cape Clear

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Would you not set up a revoult account for the likes of this?

Do banks request statment/info on these accounts?

lawred2

theronca wrote: »

No.  I left long before that.  Plenty of irresponsible lending here in CA too, but the recovery doesn't  included line-item reviews of people's banking statements.
Reminds me of the 5 star Dublin hotel I had to cancel last month with a clear 24 hour cancellation policy.  And yet upon cancelling, I couldn't just cancel.  I needed to give the "reason why" I was cancelling and have my reason "reviewed" before the cancellation as approved..  More nosy-parker paternalism.
Anyway, don't want to hijack ChrisWeiland's thread any further.

wasn't really relevant was it?

theronca

"The banks have to be allowed to assess the data given otherwise they won't be able to determine the risk profile of the individual for a loan/mortgage. For example - I get a good wage but I'm terrible at saving it or I end up in overdraft every month because I like to shop. The bank has to be able to take that into consideration."
 
There's a difference between looking at balances at the end of every month and combing through what type of expenditures a person is making.   Analyzing balances is objective: looking at whether a prospective borrower is spending on gambling or the local pub (even if you still remain in the black every  month) and denying/approving a loan based on that info is a subjective call. 
It's the subjectivity of making judgments about particular kinds of purchases which strikes me as intrusive and inappropriate.

Theboinkmaster

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Thinly veiled I stay in nice Hotels post :pac:

Quite right, no more messing from me either.

Good old Irish begrudgery :rolleyes:

Theboinkmaster

lawred2 wrote: »

wasn't really relevant was it?

More of it, fvck off then you pov it was relevant as he explained already.

theronca

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Thinly veiled I stay in nice Hotels post :pac:

Quite right, no more messing from me either.

Good old Irish begrudgery :rolleyes:

  Indeed.  
Reading that post was a salutory reminder of what else (besides nosy-parker paternalism) has not changed since I left decades ago.

Captain Flaps

theronca wrote: »

"The banks have to be allowed to assess the data given otherwise they won't be able to determine the risk profile of the individual for a loan/mortgage. For example - I get a good wage but I'm terrible at saving it or I end up in overdraft every month because I like to shop. The bank has to be able to take that into consideration."
 
There's a difference between looking at balances at the end of every month and combing through what type of expenditures a person is making.   Analyzing balances is objective: looking at whether a prospective borrower is spending on gambling or the local pub (even if you still remain in the black every  month) and denying/approving a loan based on that info is a subjective call. 
It's the subjectivity of making judgments about particular kinds of purchases which strikes me as intrusive and inappropriate.

You're not being forced or coerced to provide the info though - you want the bank to lend you money, they want to make sure you'll be responsible with that money. I don't think it's a tremendous reach once they handle the information correctly and transparently. If you don't like the idea of your statements and spending habits being scrutinised then don't rely on a third party to assist you financially I guess?

theronca

Captain Flaps wrote: »

theronca wrote: »

"The banks have to be allowed to assess the data given otherwise they won't be able to determine the risk profile of the individual for a loan/mortgage. For example - I get a good wage but I'm terrible at saving it or I end up in overdraft every month because I like to shop. The bank has to be able to take that into consideration."
 
There's a difference between looking at balances at the end of every month and combing through what type of expenditures a person is making.   Analyzing balances is objective: looking at whether a prospective borrower is spending on gambling or the local pub (even if you still remain in the black every  month) and denying/approving a loan based on that info is a subjective call. 
It's the subjectivity of making judgments about particular kinds of purchases which strikes me as intrusive and inappropriate.

You're not being forced or coerced to provide the info though - you want the bank to lend you money, they want to make sure you'll be responsible with that money. I don't think it's a tremendous reach once they handle the information correctly and transparently. If you don't like the idea of your statements and spending habits being scrutinised then don't rely on a third party to assist you financially I guess?

Well you *are* forced to provide the info if you want the loan.  And they're not "doing you a favour" by giving you the loan.  It is a business transaction on which they make money too.
  The assessment should simply be based on numbers -- assets, income, debt, monthly inflows, outflows etc.  
And, certainly, (more grist for Mr. Cogley), I'll pay cash when I buy property here b/c I couldn't bear dealing with that cr*p.

Ultimate Seduction

I've put 20 a week every week in to my online powers account for years, wasn't even mentioned to me. I'd say it's big money gambling which could affect your ability to repay which is the issue.

theronca

theronca wrote: »

Well you *are* forced to provide the info if you want the loan.  And they're not "doing you a favour" by giving you the loan.  It is a business transaction on which they make money too.
  The assessment should simply be based on numbers -- assets, income, debt, monthly inflows, outflows etc.  
And, certainly, (more grist for Mr. Cogley), I'll pay cash when I buy property here b/c I couldn't bear dealing with that cr*p.

It's pretty clear that they are asking for the statements so they can analyse them in full and look at your spending etc. This is not news it's common knowledge, you are talking about it like it's something underhand or something that hasn't been going on for years.

Anyway I don't think a few transactions will make much difference that being said it's very easy to keep it off your account just get a paddy power cash card and you can lodge and withdraw from your online account to your hearts content without the bank knowing anyway, I've been using it for years.

Browney7

It's possible it was an excuse banks used for declining people they would have declined anyways

lawred2

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

More of it, fvck off then you pov it was relevant as he explained already.

Well that escalated

testicles

This post has been deleted.

Captain Flaps

theronca wrote: »

Well you *are* forced to provide the info if you want the loan.  And they're not "doing you a favour" by giving you the loan.  It is a business transaction on which they make money too.
  The assessment should simply be based on numbers -- assets, income, debt, monthly inflows, outflows etc.  
And, certainly, (more grist for Mr. Cogley), I'll pay cash when I buy property here b/c I couldn't bear dealing with that cr*p.

I'm not sure why you put that in quotes as I never implied they were doing you a favour. I'm just pointing out that if you want a bank loan the bank wants to ensure you're a safe investment.

They don't give a damn what you're spending your cash on once it's not something that's an obvious red flag when it comes to lending large sums of cash. Nobody is being petty or begrudging you anything either, you've just swanned in here and waffled on about how you've loads of cash and this kind of thing is beneath you. You'd have had absolutely no pushback at all if you'd contributed anything remotely of value to the topic at hand.

As I can see from your other thread you're also purchasing, congrats. I just went through the mortgage process and there was no hassle with anything on my statements, it was just an inflow/outflow/rent/income review as you mentioned above. They don't care about anything unless you've a bundle of betting transactions there, which might warrant a closer look.

robbiezero

keane2097 wrote: »

Mentioned elsewhere also, had well in excess of six figures through my AIB accounts in and out of various sports betting sites in the year or two prior to applying for mortgage and wasn't even asked about it. We are due to draw down in the next couple of weeks.

The bet on the Grand National preventing an otherwise in order application from being accepted just has to be nonsense, it's not credible.

As a matter of interest, what online bookies are allowing you to bet at that scale?

Bubbaclaus

theronca wrote: »

Well you *are* forced to provide the info if you want the loan.  And they're not "doing you a favour" by giving you the loan.  It is a business transaction on which they make money too.
  The assessment should simply be based on numbers -- assets, income, debt, monthly inflows, outflows etc.  
And, certainly, (more grist for Mr. Cogley), I'll pay cash when I buy property here b/c I couldn't bear dealing with that cr*p.

I'm curious. What's going through your bank statements that you don't want them to see?

keane2097

robbiezero wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what online bookies are allowing you to bet at that scale?

All of them initially, down to none bar exchanges over time. If you are spreading your bets across various sites and in shops it can take a bit longer to get closed down. It depends how well you run with particular bookies.

For instance in my case I can still get decent bets on most things with B365 and to a lesser extent PP but haven't been able to have a bet with Ladbrokes, Hills, SJ, Bet Victor and probably several more for years.

theronca

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

theronca wrote: »

Well you *are* forced to provide the info if you want the loan.  And they're not "doing you a favour" by giving you the loan.  It is a business transaction on which they make money too.
  The assessment should simply be based on numbers -- assets, income, debt, monthly inflows, outflows etc.  
And, certainly, (more grist for Mr. Cogley), I'll pay cash when I buy property here b/c I couldn't bear dealing with that cr*p.

I'm curious. What's going through your bank statements that you don't want them to see?

I believe it's the OP who has something on his bank statement that he is concerned about.

CruelCoin

theronca wrote: »

Hate to read this kind of story as an expat thinking of coming home.  The kind of nosy-parker paternalism that makes me want to run a mile....

When you're asking other people to risk their money on you, they can be as nosey as they like.

You'd swear, people think it should be ****ing free.

theronca

CruelCoin wrote: »

theronca wrote: »

Hate to read this kind of story as an expat thinking of coming home.  The kind of nosy-parker paternalism that makes me want to run a mile....

When you're asking other people to risk their money on you, they can be as nosey as they like.

You'd swear, people think it should be ****ing free.

Well, if you're happy with the situation, and feel their nosiness is justified, there is no problem, is there?

To someone who has borrowed within a different system, where what is examined are simply numbers, the Irish system seems unreasonably intrusive and objectionably subjective.

 Two different approaches to measuring risk, but that loan is not remotely "free" in either scenario.

witchgirl26

theronca wrote: »

Well, if you're happy with the situation, and feel their nosiness is justified, there is no problem, is there?

To someone who has borrowed within a different system, where what is examined are simply numbers, the Irish system seems unreasonably intrusive and objectionably subjective.

 Two different approaches to measuring risk, but that loan is not remotely "free" in either scenario.

The problem with examining just the numbers and not the background is that it doesn't give you the best view of the risk you're taking.

For example: Person A & B both have incomes of €3000 per month and show outgoings of €2500 per month each. Looks like both the same on your scale but if you look at the statements and the nature of those outgoings you see that Person A saves €1000 a month, spends €900 on rent and €600 on general living expenses whereas Person B saves €250 a month, spends €900 on rent and spends €1350. Now the more detailed information gives you a more full picture and it's a lot clearer where the larger risk lies.

OP I'd say if there isn't a high number and large amount of betting transactions on your statements you should be ok. They're more looking for risky behaviour which would be a large amount consistently being transferred.

theronca

witchgirl26 wrote: »

theronca wrote: »

Well, if you're happy with the situation, and feel their nosiness is justified, there is no problem, is there?

To someone who has borrowed within a different system, where what is examined are simply numbers, the Irish system seems unreasonably intrusive and objectionably subjective.

 Two different approaches to measuring risk, but that loan is not remotely "free" in either scenario.

The problem with examining just the numbers and not the background is that it doesn't give you the best view of the risk you're taking.

For example: Person A & B both have incomes of €3000 per month and show outgoings of €2500 per month each. Looks like both the same on your scale but if you look at the statements and the nature of those outgoings you see that Person A saves €1000 a month, spends €900 on rent and €600 on general living expenses whereas Person B saves €250 a month, spends €900 on rent and spends €1350. Now the more detailed information gives you a more full picture and it's a lot clearer where the larger risk lies.

 

In both cases, there would be other account balances furnished to the Bank from the brokerage accounts or savings accounts where the savings is kept and showing total accrual over time of the different sums ($250 vs $1000).  So, again, all the Bank really needs is the numbers.