Unsellable car for €5k!

W123-80's

I'm not creating a thread to have a go at the seller. I actually think this car, if genuine, is well worth €5k. Unfortunately paying almost €2k per annum road tax on top makes it a totally pointless car for the majority of irish motorists.

I'm just creating the thread to highlight an incredible car that will inevitably fall by the wayside due to our prehistoric and supposedly green tax system.

Totally appreciate this point has been made on many an occasion around here, but just looking at this car annoyed me!

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz-e300-auto-turbodiesel-elegance/18249114

2Mad2BeMad

fact the seller never posted the price of the tax tells me he knows it won't sell either (mind you it looks like a horrible car personally)

colm_mcm

How would it be worth 5 grand though..tax aside. Are this generation E Class desirable now?

EPAndlee

It's pretty far from an incredible car

Ultimate Seduction

I really can't see how that car worth anywhere near 5k.. what am I missing?

mickdw

Car is over priced so won't sell.
That's the pre facelift early version also.

In 10 years time, given that they are all rusting away, if it was to be still around in good condition, it might be worth something.

sm3ar

No way is that worth 5K

Four Phucs Ache

This was posted recently on here on another thread at a UK auction. Can't remember the price but it is nice. It's immaculate really. One on pistonheads now for about 4500 euro.

pablo128

Surely its uninsurable being over 15 years old?

gman2k

It would be be doing well to be sold for €500 now.

sm3ar

pablo128 wrote: »

Surely its uninsurable being over 15 years old?

No you’d get insured alright

pablo128

sm3ar wrote: »

No you’d get insured alright

Yeah, but it would be loaded.

I had a quick look at Mercs on donedeal there and you can pick up an 07 CLS for that money anyway. Theres a nice 08 estate up North too for small enough money. That car in the OP is nowhere worth that.

Heres Johnny

How is that a 5k car? 1494 annual tax. Old technology but not old enough to be classed as a classic in any way. Very ugly car too. I've no doubt it's a well built car but never worth 5k. Don't know why it's advertised at all at that price.

ba_barabus

I'll tell you what's lovely and completely unsalable, a 141 E300 petrol I passes on the M8 today

Voodoomelon

A guy around the corner from me just sold his 2004 E250 estate for €1500, well looked after too.

Toyotafanboi

Yeah, I couldn't see it making €5k even if the tax was more like €500 per year.

I think this is a bad example of a good point.

W123-80's

I should clarify, all things being relatively equal, I would prefer to give €5k for that car than say a newer Avensis or Passat estate.
Obvs with the current tax system, the car is unsellable, which I acknowledged in my thread title.
I think it's a great example of the lovely cars heading for the scrapheap due to the motortax system.
I just think it's a waste that such a well minded and practical wagon, with plenty more years useful life as a really comfy family wagon is pretty much deemed useless.
I take the point that its ugly and taste is subjective, but it just seems a shame that a one owner car that has been minded so well all is life is now unable to be enjoyed by a second owner. Purely for bureaucratic reasons.

bidiots

W123-80's wrote: »

I should clarify, all things being relatively equal, I would prefer to give €5k for that car than say a newer Avensis or Passat estate.
Obvs with the current tax system, the car is unsellable, which I acknowledged in my thread title.
I think it's a great example of the lovely cars heading for the scrapheap due to the motortax system.
I just think it's a waste that such a well minded and practical wagon, with plenty more years useful life as a really comfy family wagon is pretty much deemed useless.
I take the point that its ugly and taste is subjective, but it just seems a shame that a one owner car that has been minded so well all is life is now unable to be enjoyed by a second owner. Purely for bureaucratic reasons.

The key reason is the 5k asking price.

lawred2

W123-80's wrote: »

I'm not creating a thread to have a go at the seller. I actually think this car, if genuine, is well worth €5k. Unfortunately paying almost €2k per annum road tax on top makes it a totally pointless car for the majority of irish motorists.

I'm just creating the thread to highlight an incredible car that will inevitably fall by the wayside due to our prehistoric and supposedly green tax system.

Totally appreciate this point has been made on many an occasion around here, but just looking at this car annoyed me!

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz-e300-auto-turbodiesel-elegance/18249114

That's a horrible car

JohnBoy26

Heres Johnny wrote: »

How is that a 5k car? 1494 annual tax. Old technology but not old enough to be classed as a classic in any way. Very ugly car too. I've no doubt it's a well built car but never worth 5k. Don't know why it's advertised at all at that price.

They actually aren't. They give their fair share of issues and they rust badly. Not one of mercedes finest efforts by a long way.

W123-80's

bidiots wrote: »

The key reason is the 5k asking price.

I don't agree. I think if that car were advertised for €1000 it would still be hard sell, due to the annual tax bill.
Forget the fact that I would gladly pay €5,000 for this car, that's totally subjective, something is worth what somebody will pay for it.
Point I'm making is the tax on this car is what will make it very very difficult sell.

JohnBoy26

W123-80's wrote: »

I should clarify, all things being relatively equal, I would prefer to give €5k for that car than say a newer Avensis or Passat estate.
Obvs with the current tax system, the car is unsellable, which I acknowledged in my thread title.
I think it's a great example of the lovely cars heading for the scrapheap due to the motortax system.
I just think it's a waste that such a well minded and practical wagon, with plenty more years useful life as a really comfy family wagon is pretty much deemed useless.
I take the point that its ugly and taste is subjective, but it just seems a shame that a one owner car that has been minded so well all is life is now unable to be enjoyed by a second owner. Purely for bureaucratic reasons.

A passat or avensis estate is less likely to break your wallet, especially the avensis. Both are better looking cars too and much better built.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

_Brian

If there were 12 months tax on it I might see it getting closer the current asking price.

Otherwise €1-2k tops.

Tan interior is desperately unpractical to use.

Greybottle

FWIW the car is taxed under the old CC system, the one that's been around for a few decades, not the new emissions system. So the "green bashing" is fairly pointless here.

I agree that cars are overtaxed here, I'm paying €1809 on a 2006 (more like €2,000 as it's every 6 months), same car as an 08 is €1200 to tax, so it works both ways.

It's not worth anywhere near that money due to tax and insurance loading here. More importantly, you can get a W124 estate for that money and they are a far more reliable car.

forestgirl

I think it's a really really nice car,have to say I love it.

W123-80's

Greybottle wrote: »

FWIW the car is taxed under the old CC system, the one that's been around for a few decades, not the new emissions system. So the "green bashing" is fairly pointless here.

I agree that cars are overtaxed here, I'm paying €1809 on a 2006 (more like €2,000 as it's every 6 months), same car as an 08 is €1200 to tax, so it works both ways.

It's not worth anywhere near that money due to tax and insurance loading here. More importantly, you can get a W124 estate for that money and they are a far more reliable car.

Couldn't disagree more that green bashing is pointless.
The old tax system is forcing perfectly good cars on top the scrap heap.
Surely discarding of something that still has years of useful life left is the very epitome of unenvironmentally friendly practice.
That is what is happening for years in the motor industry. No mention of lifetime environmental costs, the discourse only ever talks about emissions.

eagle eye

That car is not worth 5k.

As regards the motor tax system, it is so wrong. It was out of date before it came into affect.

W123-80's

Mods delete thread if you want.
I didn't mean for it to end up a discussion about whither the car was worth €5k or not, I merely wanted to highlight the lovely cars that are unsellable as a result of the current motor tax system.
As Toyotafanboy said earlier 'bad example of a good point'.

Greybottle

If the tax was lower, the price of the cars would be higher, or in that cars case, it would probably be around the same price.

I agree with you that it's far more environmentally friendly to keep older cars with clean emissions on the road than building new ones.

There's also the problem here of "Reg Plate Snobbery" where plenty of people will judge a car based on its plate, but the SIMI will never let the government change that.

I’d give close enough to €5k for that car.

One owner and a full MB main dealer service history (including the benefit of their annual inspection/corrosion survey & intervention) plus the fact that car was obviously treated well. I bet anything it needed, it got it too.

The car is worth the kind of money being sought, especially if it’s as clean an example as it appears to be. If I was closer, I’d be going to have a nosey at it myself.

@ _brian? You might not care for beige if you have mucky dogs and kids shedding crayons, puke and hair around the interior. My own experience with a pale grey interior in my merc is that it’s easy to maintain, once the occupants are clean and tidy. Burgundy and Beige/Cream is a great colour combo on that kind of wagon. I think it’s a lovely machine for the money.

It’s the tax that upsets everything and distorts perspectives when valuing cars like this. The car is worth 80-90% of the asking price I reckon.

millington

Free tax wouldn't make that thing worth 5k.

W123-80's

millington wrote: »

Free tax wouldn't make that thing worth 5k.

Top contribution there. Fair play.

I have already acknowledged that not everyone would agree with the sellers valuation on the car and I have further clarified that I didn't set the thread up to have a race to the bottom pointless debate about what the car is worth.

I simply wanted to highlight the very very nice cars that are virtually worthless due to or tax system.

I must have articulated my point very poorly in my OP.

millington

millington wrote: »

Free tax wouldn't make that thing worth 5k.

To many.

I’d pay it.

fancy pigeon

Engine is the best part of it, would outlive most modern diesels and very capable of more power. To suggest otherwise is plain ignorance but does give me something to laugh at

I had a E300TD once, and an E320 CDI. Both came with rust as standard, both were €350.

It's not worth €5k on these shores

Stallingrad

Being that generation os E-Cass its hard to tell if that body is maroon, or just rust.

Notch000

valuation aside that would make an incredable motorway mile muncher

AMKC

If this car can not be sold here why could it not be sold up North or in the UK? Surely someone there would love a well looked after clean tidy car with a full service history? I never liked the front of them thought they were ugly but I never liked round lights on a car either think it is just wrong. The interior looks great and the beige makes it look much nicer than if it was grey or black but it's also very boring.

selectamatic

Patww79 wrote: »

That's one for the dreamers thread, regardless of tax.

Indeed it is...

selectamatic wrote: »

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz-e300-turbodiesel-elegance-estate/18249114

I like w210's despite their faults
and I'm a big fan of the om606

but these lads are a bullin!

€4950 :pac:

millington

W123-80's wrote: »

Top contribution there. Fair play.

I have already acknowledged that not everyone would agree with the sellers valuation on the car and I have further clarified that I didn't set the thread up to have a race to the bottom pointless debate about what the car is worth.

I simply wanted to highlight the very very nice cars that are virtually worthless due to or tax system.

I must have articulated my point very poorly in my OP.

I get your point but I don't think the taxation system affects the value of that car too much. Theres plenty of high tax vehicles that are sought after but a maroon diesel E class estate isn't one of them.

The E39 5 series is a far more sought after car of the same generation and an average spec, average mileage 530d touring wouldn't make half of that price, even in the UK with lower tax rates.

W123-80's

millington wrote: »

I get your point but I don't think the taxation system affects the value of that car too much. Theres plenty of high tax vehicles that are sought after but a maroon diesel E class estate isn't one of them.

The E39 5 series is a far more sought after car of the same generation and an average spec, average mileage 530d touring wouldn't make half of that price, even in the UK with lower tax rates.

Ok, I'm close to giving up. I'll have one last go.

In an alternative universe, if that car had lets say a flat tax rate of €500 p.a I think it becomes very attractive to a wider circle of potential buyers. It may not be 'sought after' but as a practical and confortable family wagon or load lugger it is a decent option. But the tax is the problem.
With the current tax rate I think it is virtually worthless, as I have pointed out numerous times on this thread.
I realise there are lots of big engined cars that are more desirable, but the obvious care this car has recieved from day one jumped out at me.

You want to talk about the value of the car, no bother. I think it's worth what a potential buyer is willing to pay. But I hadn't intended to start a debate about the 'value' of the car or the 'asking price'. My point is still the same, if there was a sensible motor tax system in this country the chances of that car remaining on the road for many more years increase exponentially. Valuation debate aside.
I used this car as an example due to the obvious care and maintenance it has recieved all its life and is now virtually worthless.

The current tax on that car is the problem, regardless of whither the asking price is €5k, €1k or 4 cans of heineken & a pack of 20 benson.

Heres Johnny

What's the tax on one of these in the UK and what's the value in the UK?

I would imagine the tax is much lower in the UK and it's still worth fck all over there.

Because it's a 20 year old undesirable old technology and ugly to boot.

The tax doesn't help but it's not the be all and end all.
Expensive repairs on buyers minds too.

I love buying old stuff and paying high tax because it lets me drive exactly the car I need but I wouldn't touch this

millington

Heres Johnny wrote: »

What's the tax on one of these in the UK and what's the value in the UK?

I would imagine the tax is much lower in the UK and it's still worth fck all over there.

Because it's a 20 year old undesirable old technology and ugly to boot.

The tax doesn't help but it's not the be all and end all.

This is exactly my point.


I totally agree with what you're saying re the low value of big engined cars due to the tax rate, I just think that was a particularly bad example that wouldn't actually be worth that price regardless.

W123-80's

Heres Johnny wrote: »

What's the tax on one of these in the UK and what's the value in the UK?

I would imagine the tax is much lower in the UK and it's still worth fck all over there.

I. Give. Up.

What influence does any 'perceived' UK value on the car have on the point I am making??

As I have already stated, I am not debating the value of the car.

I am simply pointing out an example of an incredibly well minded car that has many years of motoring life left but is almost unsellable and potentially destined for the scrap heap due to silly motor tax rates in Ireland.

Does anyone get my point.!!!!
Or is the €5k asking price too much to look past.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

W123-80's

W123-80's wrote: »

I. Give. Up.

What influence does any 'perceived' UK value on the car have on the point I am making??

As I have already stated, I am not debating the value of the car.

I am simply pointing out an example of an incredibly well minded car that has many years of motoring life left but is almost unsellable and potentially destined for the scrap heap due to silly motor tax rates in Ireland.

Does anyone get my point.!!!!
Or is the €5k asking price too much to look past.

Yeah, I get the point you're trying to make.

I disagree with the premise that the motor tax cost makes the car unsellable and practically consigns it to the scrapyard at €5k.

I've always viewed the running costs completely separately from the purchase price of the car. I see 5k as a relatively high price, but not entirely unreasonable when considering the car in question.

Patww79

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

In your (and admittedly many others) opinions, but all it takes is someone who's happy to pay that price for that car and you lose the argument you're trying to make.

W123-80's

millington wrote: »

This is exactly my point.


I totally agree with what you're saying re the low value of big engined cars due to the tax rate, I just think that was a particularly bad example that wouldn't actually be worth that price regardless.

My point is that the car is almost unsellable due to the tax, so by default I agree they are highly unlikely to get €5k for the car.

I'm looking specifically at that car and it's history. I'm not looking at the asking price, which is all it is. An asking price. It's not a value or a price that must be paid. Its just an asking price.
Im looking past the asking price and suggesting that despite the asking price, that car is going to be very difficult sell, despite the obvious care it has recieved, despite it being a practical, comfortable and very usable car for families or anyone for that matter.
And it is all down to the tax.
Regardless of any sticker price that is slapped on the window. The seller could ask €100k for the car or he could ask for a tenner. That neither confirms the value or garauntees a sale.
The incredibly high tax is what will make that car very difficult sell. At any price.
And thats a shame. Because that car should be kept on the road and driven and enjoyed for many many more years.

millington

W123-80's wrote: »

I am simply pointing out an example of an incredibly well minded car that has many years of motoring life left but is almost unsellable and potentially destined for the scrap heap due to silly motor tax rates in Ireland.

It's almost unsellable in the UK aswell even without silly motor tax rates though

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

W123-80's

millington wrote: »

It's almost unsellable in the UK aswell even without silly motor tax rates though

Is it?

A quick search on autotrader and carandclassic throws up quite a few examples. All in varying conditions. Cheapest at £995 all the way up to silly money.
At an annual tax or £251 I have my doubts they are unsellable in the UK, in particular the example on this thread.
Not that UK selling prices or motoring habits make one iota of difference to the point that I am making in an Irish context.

My point stands, with a fairer tax system the chances of that well minded and maintained Mercedes remaining on the road for many more years increases.

Three UK examples below from £1k up to £5k. Let the market decide the value of each car not us guys on the keyboards. As I have stated already, I'm not suggesting a value for the OP car or looking to debate the asking price. I'm simply pointing out a huge barrier here in Ireland to ownership of this car, a barrier that has the potential to prematurely end the useful life of this car. And considering the car in question, I think that its a huge shame.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201804155575325?onesearchad=Used&sort=sponsored&radius=1500&model=E%20CLASS&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&year-from=1995&fuel-type=Diesel&postcode=sw193rq&advertising-location=at_cars&body-type=Estate&year-to=2002&page=1

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C981270

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803014175605?radius=1500&advertising-location=at_cars&year-to=2002&body-type=Estate&model=E%20CLASS&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&sort=sponsored&onesearchad=Used&postcode=sw193rq&fuel-type=Diesel&year-from=1995&page=2