‘Luas on Wheels’ bus service for Galway

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

As someone else said, it'll take a carrot and stick approach. People won't just stop using their cars so there has to be incentives e.g. public transport being the fastest/most convenient way to get around.
....

Ah that explains why it is the way it is. It probably wouldn't make much difference in terms of time anyway. Most people still seem to pay in cash.

There's a big difference between carrot+stick vs outright ban. Outright ban just gets up people's noses, begs to be broken, and leaves some people (eg old people, disabled, inner-city residents) seriously disadvantaged.

Among workers in Parkmore, I reckon Leap use has reached 50%. Possibly because there are more foreigners catching the bus - people who have come from outside and actually researched what the options are.

what_traffic wrote: »

Are you not contradicting yourself here? This is a clear indication that you and other bus users are stuck among the car traffic and taking "drastic action" to avoid it.

No. Last week's weather was exceptional. People flocking to Salthill when the sun comes out - just like other one-off things that happens on an irregular basis - is never going to be catered for by public transport. Today, there was no being stuck in traffic anywhere, although the Parkmore Rd was slow moving -- and I forgot to record how long we took doing pickups and set-downs :-(

Idbatterim

If there was an electric bus, it would be so much better than a loud, vibrating, stinking diesel ...

cgcsb

Any sign of the new Salmon weir to Forster street bus corridor? having new vehicles is great but the road space is all that matters really.

serfboard

Idbatterim wrote: »

If there was an electric bus, it would be so much better than a loud, vibrating, stinking diesel ...

Here you go. The Chinese are spending huge amounts developing Electric Buses because their cities are getting choked up with pollution.

McGiver

serfboard wrote: »

Here you go. The Chinese are spending huge amounts developing Electric Buses because their cities are getting choked up with pollution.

Not only stinking, the diesel exhaust you can smell is carcinogenic. I wonder why no one in Ireland didn't consider LPG, LNG or electric buses. It's a no-brainer.

McGiver

Mr_A wrote: »

A massive step forward for buses in Galway would be the ability to just tap on quickly like on public transport in London or the LUAS etc. Even with a LEAP card boarding city buses is far slower than it should be.

Concur.

A few heretical ideas (in Irish context) from a continental European.

1.How about banning cash altogether? Of course emergency cash allowed but with a surcharge. Pretty much a standard in European public transport systems.

2. How about three doors on the bus instead of just one? Idem.

Mrs OBumble

McGiver wrote: »

1.How about banning cash altogether? Of course emergency cash allowed but with a surcharge. Pretty much a standard in European public transport systems.

Right now, the fastest way to board a bus in Galway is with a monthly or annual TaxSaver ticket: these are manual, the driver just has to glance at them.

Second fastest is cash. Yes, even when the driver has to give change.

Slowest, by a long shot, are Leap cards. We would not want to make the city Leap only until this changes.

There is already a substantial penalty for paying with cash rather than Leap (eg adult journey is 1.61 on Leap, or 2.30 with cash), but lots of people still pay with cash.

4068ac1elhodqr

This bus sounds much like the new ones set to arrive for Translink this Sept.

http://www.translink.co.uk/also-on-our-site/Glider/

Look a bit space-age, Rapid-Transport system, but essentially just a hybrid low-emission/noise, 18 metre bendy bus. 105 capacity! USB & Wifi.

flazio

Now that actually does look like the result of a tram and a bus cross breeding

jogdish

Re the Leap card being slow, which it is.

Is it just, old buses using old tech? or we invested some cheapo system?

McGiver

Renee Slow Purse wrote: »

This bus sounds much like the new ones set to arrive for Translink this Sept.

http://www.translink.co.uk/also-on-our-site/Glider/

Look a bit space-age, Rapid-Transport system, but essentially just a hybrid low-emission/noise, 18 metre bendy bus. 105 capacity! USB & Wifi.

The only thing exceptional about it is that it's a hybrid. The rest is just a marketing BS, just a long bendy bus like any other at the moment.

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Right now, the fastest way to board a bus in Galway is with a monthly or annual TaxSaver ticket: these are manual, the driver just has to glance at them.

I've got monthly TaxSaver Leap Card and it is being validated in a similar way as the normal Leap Card. Some drivers are taking too much time with these ones as well. Many of them first try Leap Card balance thinking it's a Leap Card, that shows zero, they then validate it as a monthly ticket.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Second fastest is cash. Yes, even when the driver has to give change.

Fastest is no cash. Validators/tickets outside. No need to validate Leap Card inside the bus. In the city I am fom, typical "Galway" bus stop would take just a few seconds, here it takes one minute or more.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

There is already a substantial penalty for paying with cash rather than Leap (eg adult journey is 1.61 on Leap, or 2.30 with cash), but lots of people still pay with cash.

No, it's the other way round. Leap card is discounted. In the city I am from, validators/ticket machine ticket price is X, whereas if you want to buy a ticket from the driver with cash (which is being discouraged) you pay more i.e. X + Y.

Lord Glentoran

McGiver wrote: »

The only thing exceptional about it is that it's a hybrid. The rest is just a marketing BS, just a long bendy bus like any other at the moment.

Its still a bus, and it can't even reach its potential because the bike lobby snaffled the old Belfast and County Down Railway line to Comber.

Lord Glentoran

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Its still a bus, and it can't even reach its potential because the bike lobby snaffled the old Belfast and County Down Railway line to Comber.

Nonsense

cgcsb

The problem with the Belfast system is that the same pinch points still exist and the overall effectiveness of the system is greatly reduced because SF (of all parties) voted to reduce the effectiveness of the BRT lanes by allowing taxis on them and reducing their operating hours. Who knew lefty SF were against public transport.

McGiver

cgcsb wrote: »

The problem with the Belfast system is that the same pinch points still exist and the overall effectiveness of the system is greatly reduced because SF (of all parties) voted to reduce the effectiveness of the BRT lanes by allowing taxis on them and reducing their operating hours. Who knew lefty SF were against public transport.

It's not about left or right. SF aren't really left in a European sense, they are national socialists of a very specific, Irish caliber.

Switzerland's gov is definitely not left (I won't mention a permanent grand coalition here to keep it simple), yet they have the best public transport system and network in Europe and perhaps the world.

JupiterKid

This proposal makes complete sense for a city of Galway’s size and morphology. But for it to work effectively, new higher residential density developments will need to be built at key nodes along the East-West route, more office space developed in the City Centre and a route through the Centre that will involve minimal interaction with existing traffic.

And Park & Ride facilities for commuters at the termini of this route.

McGiver

JupiterKid wrote: »

This proposal makes complete sense for a city of Galway’s size and morphology. But for it to work effectively, new higher residential density developments will need to be built at key nodes along the East-West route, more office space developed in the City Centre and a route through the Centre that will involve minimal interaction with existing traffic.

And Park & Ride facilities for commuters at the termini of this route.

Spot on. It's not only about the current situation but about planning as well.

High density required, build more apartments and build higher. Two- to three-story buildings have too low density.

Funnily, Bonham Quay was described as "too high", "overlooking" and "overshadowing", but it has only 6 to 7 stories. As if it is a skyscraper or what

what_traffic

Looks like more Bus Driver jobs coming to Galway City. Wonder what numbers will be like?
https://www.independent.ie/business/jobs/bus-ireann-to-recruit-200-staff-across-the-country-36892662.html

McGiver

what_traffic wrote: »

Looks like more Bus Driver jobs coming to Galway City. Wonder what numbers will be like?
https://www.independent.ie/business/jobs/bus-ireann-to-recruit-200-staff-across-the-country-36892662.html

You mean like 10?

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

Spot on. It's not only about the current situation but about planning as well.

High density required, build more apartments and build higher. Two- to three-story buildings have too low density.

Funnily, Bonham Quay was described as "too high", "overlooking" and "overshadowing", but it has only 6 to 7 stories. As if it is a skyscraper or what

Making apartments a better option for families and couples by increasing the size to a comparable one with those on the continent would go a long way. Nobody wants to live long term in a shoebox

Fitz*

what_traffic wrote: »

Looks like more Bus Driver jobs coming to Galway City. Wonder what numbers will be like?
https://www.independent.ie/business/jobs/bus-ireann-to-recruit-200-staff-across-the-country-36892662.html

Will probably increase the 409 again and leave other bus routes struggling as usual.

what_traffic

FitzShane wrote: »

Will probably increase the 409 again and leave other bus routes struggling as usual.

No idea. Need bus lanes and bus gates as well though. Will we see regular Metropolitan City services to Bearna/Clargealway/Moycullen like for Oranmore?

Mrs OBumble

FitzShane wrote: »

Will probably increase the 409 again and leave other bus routes struggling as usual.

BE have already said at public meetings that the plan is for the 409 to go to evety 10 minutes (currently every 12) and the 404 to go to every 30 mins currently every 60).

Haven't seen any public announcements though.

Even with leave etc that won't use up 10 new drivers. (But I don't know if the figure of 10 for Galway is real or not.)

Fitz*

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

BE have already said at public meetings that the plan is for the 409 to go to evety 10 minutes (currently every 12) and the 404 to go to every 30 mins currently every 60).

Haven't seen any public announcements though.

Even with leave etc that won't use up 10 new drivers. (But I don't know if the figure of 10 for Galway is real or not.)

Why increase the 409 even more? We already see many buses backed up there as it is. It already runs on a 12 min basis, so there are 5 buses per hour on that route. Add in the 3 x 403's which also serve Eyre Sq - Parkmore every hour and it is 8 overall.

That's double what any other bus route has in the city.

If they moved some of the 409's to an express service, or even lined the bus times up to the factory times it might make better use of the buses & drivers. Does the 409 really need 5 services per hour at 12.00 pm on a Wednesday? How many factories work them shifts? Why not increase the number of buses to align with factories hours and make the service more efficient. Increase during the shift beginning and finishing time, decrease when they are not needed.

I'm sure BE keep record of how many people use the route at certain times. Why not actually use this data?

ben.schlomo

FitzShane wrote: »

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

BE have already said at public meetings that the plan is for the 409 to go to evety 10 minutes (currently every 12) and the 404 to go to every 30 mins currently every 60).

Haven't seen any public announcements though.

Even with leave etc that won't use up 10 new drivers. (But I don't know if the figure of 10 for Galway is real or not.)

Why increase the 409 even more? We already see many buses backed up there as it is. It already runs on a 12 min basis, so there are 5 buses per hour on that route. Add in the 3 x 403's which also serve Eyre Sq - Parkmore every hour and it is 8 overall.

That's double what any other bus route has in the city.

If they moved some of the 409's to an express service, or even lined the bus times up to the factory times it might make better use of the buses & drivers. Does the 409 really need 5 services per hour at 12.00 pm on a Wednesday? How many factories work them shifts? Why not increase the number of buses to align with factories hours and make the service more efficient. Increase during the shift beginning and finishing time, decrease when they are not needed.

I'm sure BE keep record of how many people use the route at certain times. Why not actually use this data?

You do realise that it's not just a bus for factory workers ya? Gmit, all of Doughiska, Bons, Hotels, Wellpark retail and Merlin are all key stops along the route. It can be full to capacity in and out around 9/10 daily.

xckjoo

ben.schlomo wrote: »

You do realise that it's not just a bus for factory workers ya? Gmit, all of Doughiska, Bons, Hotels, Wellpark retail and Merlin are all key stops along the route. It can be full to capacity in and out around 9/10 daily.

Most of them are serviced by multiple other bus routes too though (not sure about Doughiska). No point in increasing the number of buses if they're all going to be sitting in the same traffic looking at each other.

ben.schlomo

xckjoo wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

You do realise that it's not just a bus for factory workers ya? Gmit, all of Doughiska, Bons, Hotels, Wellpark retail and Merlin are all key stops along the route. It can be full to capacity in and out around 9/10 daily.

Most of them are serviced by multiple other bus routes too though (not sure about Doughiska). No point in increasing the number of buses if they're all going to be sitting in the same traffic looking at each other.

Doughiska isn't, Gmit and Merlin just by 402 and 404 which aren't good enough/efficient.

Mrs OBumble

FitzShane wrote: »

Why increase the 409 even more? We already see many buses backed up there as it is. It already runs on a 12 min basis, so there are 5 buses per hour on that route. Add in the 3 x 403's which also serve Eyre Sq - Parkmore every hour and it is 8 overall.

That's double what any other bus route has in the city.

If they moved some of the 409's to an express service, or even lined the bus times up to the factory times it might make better use of the buses & drivers. Does the 409 really need 5 services per hour at 12.00 pm on a Wednesday? How many factories work them shifts? Why not increase the number of buses to align with factories hours and make the service more efficient. Increase during the shift beginning and finishing time, decrease when they are not needed.

I'm sure BE keep record of how many people use the route at certain times. Why not actually use this data?

It's not BE's call.

The NTA approve routes and timetables, based on need, which they derive from the data.

I agree that other routes, esp the 405, are under-served. Hopefully they will be addressed too.

It is impressive the way that the 404 has developed though. I think they know some things about growing routes.

4068ac1elhodqr

Interesting stat for urban areas, one single 'Glider bus' (at full capacity),
can replace x87 cars, (assuming average occpancy of 1.2), that's 0.5km of congestion.

xckjoo

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Doughiska isn't, Gmit and Merlin just by 402 and 404 which aren't good enough/efficient.

GMIT must be the most serviced stop in Galway that isn't in Eyre Square! It has the 402, 404 and 409, with the 405 around the corner. I think they're all on 20-30 mins rotations too.

As always, it comes down to the buses sitting in the same traffic as everyone else. The only bus lane between GMIT and Eyre Square finishes at the Bons (which the 404 actually goes around ). Oh and there's that one on Forster Street too. All 100m of it :pac:

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It is impressive the way that the 404 has developed though. I think they know some things about growing routes.

How has the 404 changed over the years? I take it a bit these days but wouldn't have prior to a few years ago.

what_traffic

xckjoo wrote: »

GMIT must be the most serviced stop in Galway that isn't in Eyre Square! It has the 402, 404 and 409, with the 405 around the corner. I think they're all on 20-30 mins rotations too.

True well serviced, but the facilities for the GMIT bus users is really really poor.
Really need a Bus Laybys, with shelters on both sides and proper pedestrian crossings.
Whoever in City Council planning Dept allowed NEW Garda Station to be built right on top of the road should be given a medal.

xckjoo

what_traffic wrote: »

True well serviced, but the facilities for the GMIT bus users is really really poor.
Really need a Bus Laybys, with shelters on both sides and proper pedestrian crossings.
Whoever in City Council planning Dept allowed NEW Garda Station to be built right on top of the road should be given a medal.

Well according to one local politician, the pedestrian crossing at Dawn Dairies is optimum for this bus stop as GMIT students could do with the exercise*.....

I believe Garda Stations are exempt from regular planning regulations, but I'm not sure if that lets them bypass everything. Someone more knowledgeable than myself might be able to fill us in.


* Looked up the tweet and it wasn't quite the wording on it so don't want to be fake news

ben.schlomo

xckjoo wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Doughiska isn't, Gmit and Merlin just by 402 and 404 which aren't good enough/efficient.

GMIT must be the most serviced stop in Galway that isn't in Eyre Square! It has the 402, 404 and 409, with the 405 around the corner. I think they're all on 20-30 mins rotations too.

As always, it comes down to the buses sitting in the same traffic as everyone else. The only bus lane between GMIT and Eyre Square finishes at the Bons (which the 404 actually goes around ). Oh and there's that one on Forster Street too. All 100m of it :pac:

409 is the only one of them that gets you to the door in some form of straightforward, quick and regular way though. The 402 is a disaster with it's stop every ten feet throughout Renmore, you'd be quicker getting off at the Connacht and walking the rest of the way. 405 is decent but further away if weather is bad and sometimes services on it go missing.

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

How has the 404 changed over the years? I take it a bit these days but wouldn't have prior to a few years ago.

Through routing to Oranmore is great for students living out there.

Now seven days and running from 6am til 11pm roughly speaking. Times are a big improvement for Galway clinic staff and patients.

Full details here: http://news.galwaytransport.info/2016/05/410-cancelled-route-404-newcastle-clinic-oranmore-extension.html

McGiver

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Making apartments a better option for families and couples by increasing the size to a comparable one with those on the continent would go a long way. Nobody wants to live long term in a shoebox

Do you have any evidence for this? I'm from the continent and I don't think apartments here are particularly small. Are you expecting apartments the size of a house?

McGiver

ben.schlomo wrote: »

409 is the only one of them that gets you to the door in some form of straightforward, quick and regular way though. The 402 is a disaster with it's stop every ten feet throughout Renmore, you'd be quicker getting off at the Connacht and walking the rest of the way. 405 is decent but further away if weather is bad and sometimes services on it go missing.

402 is alright, there 3 stops 250m apart and another 3 roughly 200m. Walking from Connacht definitely isn't faster. That part of Renmore route is used by seniors so it makes sense. The bus doesn't get delayed much in that part of Renmore there is no traffic there (i don't count faffing about with cash/leaps that's a different story). Delays occur on the Dublin Road and Bohermore.

405 is a useless service, buses not turning up at all etc.

ben.schlomo

McGiver wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

409 is the only one of them that gets you to the door in some form of straightforward, quick and regular way though. The 402 is a disaster with it's stop every ten feet throughout Renmore, you'd be quicker getting off at the Connacht and walking the rest of the way. 405 is decent but further away if weather is bad and sometimes services on it go missing.

402 is alright, there 3 stops 250m apart and another 3 roughly 200m. Walking from Connacht definitely isn't faster. That part of Renmore route is used by seniors so it makes sense. The bus doesn't get delayed much in that part of Renmore there is no traffic there (i don't count faffing about with cash/leaps that's a different story). Delays occur on the Dublin Road and Bohermore.

405 is a useless service, buses not turning up at all etc.

Definitely isn't a useless service, every twenty minutes, majority do turn up, it's annoying when they don't but use the app and you should know in advance. Works for me when I need it.

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

GMIT must be the most serviced stop in Galway that isn't in Eyre Square! It has the 402, 404 and 409, with the 405 around the corner. I think they're all on 20-30 mins rotations too.

As always, it comes down to the buses sitting in the same traffic as everyone else. The only bus lane between GMIT and Eyre Square finishes at the Bons (which the 404 actually goes around ). Oh and there's that one on Forster Street too. All 100m of it :pac:

Despite that, and despite the rubbish facilities, the stop at GMIT is always busy, with lots of people getting on/off.

402 is on a 30 minute rotation in the daytime, 60 at night (yes, during evening classes).

404 is still on 60 minutes.

405 is on 20 mins, but does seem to be the one that BE sacrifice if they need to cut services. However it's still the best option if you're doing to the north end of the campus, or coming thru from Rahoon / Westside.


You may scoff that there are only two patches of bus lane, but the were well chosen: both make journeys quite a bit faster than before they were there. More would be better, but I wouldn't write off the bus service without them.

McGiver

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Definitely isn't a useless service, every twenty minutes, majority do turn up, it's annoying when they don't but use the app and you should know in advance. Works for me when I need it.

One of the best routes in terms punctuality/predictability. Never any missed buses. Unlike the 405.

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You may scoff that there are only two patches of bus lane, but the were well chosen: both make journeys quite a bit faster than before they were there. More would be better, but I wouldn't write off the bus service without them.

Alright, so where do we go from here next? I mean with the public transport.

xckjoo

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Definitely isn't a useless service, every twenty minutes, majority do turn up, it's annoying when they don't but use the app and you should know in advance. Works for me when I need it.

I always seem to find a few buses that aren't on the real-time or disappear off it. I find that frustrating but it's a great addition overall. Shout-out to the Android app called "Galway Bus". I find it much better than the official one. Nicer interface.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Despite that, and despite the rubbish facilities, the stop at GMIT is always busy, with lots of people getting on/off.


402 is on a 30 minute rotation in the daytime, 60 at night (yes, during evening classes).

404 is still on 60 minutes.

405 is on 20 mins, but does seem to be the one that BE sacrifice if they need to cut services. However it's still the best option if you're doing to the north end of the campus, or coming thru from Rahoon / Westside.


You may scoff that there are only two patches of bus lane, but the were well chosen: both make journeys quite a bit faster than before they were there. More would be better, but I wouldn't write off the bus service without them.

I'll scoff away. Not sure why you're defending the amount of space given to bus lanes but it's far too little. If I take the 402, I get approximately 30s of bus lane between GMIT and Eyre Squre.



405 seems to get severely delayed going through Ballybane and around by HP (not surprisingly) so it can be a frustrating one to wait for. I think that's more down to poor prediction of delay than anything though. I've never had it not show up, but it has been 20-30 mins late.


What's the GMIT north campus? Unless there's somewhere I don't know about, the Dublin Road stops are still more convenient than the 405, unless the 405 suits where you live.

The 405 is an excellent service imo.

Extending it to HP was a clever move.

zell12

RoboKlopp wrote: »

The 405 is an excellent service imo.
Extending it to HP was a clever move.

Praise for BÉ :eek: or Galway City Council :eek: :eek: or maybe TII ?

Mrs OBumble

zell12 wrote: »

Praise for BÉ :eek: or Galway City Council :eek: :eek: or maybe TII ?

The NTA make the route decisions.

Not sure whose idea it was: a HP manager said that they asked for it when their new building was planned.

If non city services from commuter towns could run earlier in the morning, it'd allow people working on the the east side of the city to make connections without making a huge dent in commuting time.

The reason I'm just mentioning the east side it because that's where the main issues seem to be.

McGiver

RoboKlopp wrote: »

The 405 is an excellent service imo.

Extending it to HP was a clever move.

Is that a joke?

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

Is that a joke?

Which bit?

The first part is from personal experience.
The 2nd part is common sense.

Fitz*

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The NTA make the route decisions.

Not sure whose idea it was: a HP manager said that they asked for it when their new building was planned.

Having a bus shelter was one of the requirements of the new building when it was being planned I thought.

RoboKlopp wrote: »

The 405 is an excellent service imo.

Extending it to HP was a clever move.

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Which bit?

The first part is from personal experience.
The 2nd part is common sense.

Surely not..... how often do you get the 405? Ever have to rely on it to be in a certain place at a certain time only for it to not show up for 45 minutes?